HAL the last line allowing balcony smoking

[cruisemom42]

Yes, of course they do. The issue is that more people don't smoke than do. I'm sure smokers didn't like it when they couldn't smoke in the office anymore. I'm pretty sure that smokers don't like going outside in minus 30 in Calgary. I haven't heard one person blame non smokers for that. Times change. If not we'd still be sitting in a cloud of smoke at work.

 

 

I am only expressing my hope that HAL is reasonable in a) announcing the policy with as long of a lead time as they can and b) making some effort to accommodate (via an appropriate indoor smoking venue) what -- at 20% -- is still a sizable minority of passengers that they might rather keep than lose.

[kjw869]

Agree. I assume we are talking about smoking and not sex:D;).

 

The latter will be banned in 2016. ;)

[cruz chic]

The latter will be banned in 2016. ;)

 

Behave :D;):p.

[Lizzie68]

I am only expressing my hope that HAL is reasonable in a) announcing the policy with as long of a lead time as they can and b) making some effort to accommodate (via an appropriate indoor smoking venue) what -- at 20% -- is still a sizable minority of passengers that they might rather keep than lose.

 

 

I honestly think that both a) and b) will apply. Think positive.:)

[Fouremco]

That may be true in some cases. But imagine my 80-some year old parents on a cruise -- not a Caribbean cruise but a Trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Where the weather is apt to be a bit unpleasant.

 

I don't think for a minute they would want to get up, get dressed and go up or down several flights of stairs to stand outside in an area likely to be exposed and chilly at the least. Then back down or up again. Five times daily.

 

HAL should provide some better option.

 

 

 

Suppose HAL rolled out a new policy that was a deal breaker for YOU, and you had already booked and paid for a cruise (and air tickets) and were within the final payment window?

 

That scenario isn't fair, whatever the change and however eagerly some might anticipate it.

 

I propose the fair thing, if it comes to it (and my hope is that it doesn't), is that HAL announces their policy a year in advance. This mitigates the issue of both cruise payment (full refund) and air tickets (which cannot be purchased more than 11 months in advance).

No argument from me over announcement and implementation dates. A full year might be a bit unrealistic, but a reasonable period should be considered.

 

As to your scenario with the 80 year old on a November TA, I never expect any policy or piece of legislation to please or benefit 100% of the people 100% of the time. But I think that it's pretty evident that not allowing smoking on balconies is a change supported by the majority of passengers.

[sail7seas]

That may be true in some cases. But imagine my 80-some year old parents on a cruise -- not a Caribbean cruise but a Trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Where the weather is apt to be a bit unpleasant.

 

I don't think for a minute they would want to get up, get dressed and go up or down several flights of stairs to stand outside in an area likely to be exposed and chilly at the least. Then back down or up again. Five times daily.

 

HAL should provide some better option.

 

 

 

Suppose HAL rolled out a new policy that was a deal breaker for YOU, and you had already booked and paid for a cruise (and air tickets) and were within the final payment window?

 

That scenario isn't fair, whatever the change and however eagerly some might anticipate it.

 

I propose the fair thing, if it comes to it (and my hope is that it doesn't), is that HAL announces their policy a year in advance. This mitigates the issue of both cruise payment (full refund) and air tickets (which cannot be purchased more than 11 months in advance).

 

I'm sure my parents are not the only elderly HAL loyalists who are smokers. I'm merely using them as an example. Sometimes it helps people to realize changes like this aren't abstract and do affect others.

 

 

 

Meaning absolutely no disrespect, I ask who do you think HAL would prefer to lose? Eighty-some year old guests who smoke or thirty/forty year old guests who do not smoke and don't want to be around it?

 

Those of in the sixties and up are HAL fading present, we are not their future.

 

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

The rumor is that new regulations will require cruise ships to ban balcony smoking or install very costly fire suppression systems and upgrades. Carnival, NCL, and HAL may simply be annoucing these because, from a financial standpoint, they really don't have much of a choice.

 

 

 

This is good news.

Any idea when these new regulations will be in place?

 

[cruisemom42]

Meaning absolutely no disrespect, I ask who do you think HAL would prefer to lose? Eighty-some year old guests who smoke or thirty/forty year old guests who do not smoke and don't want to be around it?

 

Those of in the sixties and up are HAL fading present, we are not their future.

 

 

Of course one sees the writing on the wall.

 

My point in the first comment was to respond to the person who suggested relatively few smokers would STOP sailing HAL because of a change that would no longer allow balcony smoking and wouldn't offer an alternative other than going outside. I'm not sure that is so.

 

My point in the second comment is to ask that HAL be fair in its implementation of any change, allowing those who have already booked to cancel their plans without penalty, including air travel (booked through HAL). It shouldn't be different from any other change, including the wine policy which was so universally reviled as to its implementation.

 

Does anyone remember how far in advance HAL gave notice that it was no longer going to allow smoking in cabins? It seems to me that it was a pretty long lead time. If they do the same here, I think it would be appropriate.

Edited July 16, 2014 by cruisemom42

[sail7seas]

My 'guess' is HAL gave about 4 months notice of banning smoking in cabins.

 

Anyone who doesn't see the hand writing on the wall is in denial. Most people who have their whits about them know it is only a matter of when HAL will ban verandah smoking, most of us do not consider it an 'if'. If a smoker books a verandah cabin two years in advance, they likely are aware of the risk they are taking that the policy could well change. They should be prepared for that possibility.

 

[kazu]

Of course one sees the writing on the wall.

 

My point in the first comment was to respond to the person who suggested relatively few smokers would STOP sailing HAL because of a change that would no longer allow balcony smoking and wouldn't offer an alternative other than going outside. I'm not sure that is so.

 

My point in the second comment is to ask that HAL be fair in its implementation of any change, allowing those who have already booked to cancel their plans without penalty, including air travel (booked through HAL). It shouldn't be different from any other change, including the wine policy which was so universally reviled as to its implementation.

 

Does anyone remember how far in advance HAL gave notice that it was no longer going to allow smoking in cabins? It seems to me that it was a pretty long lead time. If they do the same here, I think it would be appropriate.

 

If I recall correctly, there was about 6 months notice.

 

I could be wrong but not being able to smoke in the cabin had only a major effect with a few. After all, they still had the balcony.

 

I will be very curious to see how this works in Europe and Asia where there are more smokers (and they are not old) where some of the lines are trying to make inroads

Edited July 16, 2014 by kazu

[Cretia]

This is good news.

Any idea when these new regulations will be in place?

 

 

At this point it's just a rumor, although one that makes sense to me. NCL's CEO stated in an interview in January 2014, that NCL had no plans to change its smoking policy at this time. About a week ago, Carnival announced their change, with an end date of Oct 1 (if I recall correctly). This week, NCL is on the verge of an annoucement that they will be changing their policy, with an end date of Nov 1, less than a year after the CEO mentioning their lack of plans. NCL previously gave about a year's notice when they ended smoking in their staterooms. The lack of notice is, of course, jarring.

 

To my mind, a CEO who felt comfortable 7 months ago saying they had no plans at the moment to change their policy is more likely to wait and see what revenue changes and clientele shifts the Carnival change would bring to his company than to immediately jump on the same bandwagon a week later.

 

I believe that only a significant financial pressure, from regularions or insurance, would be the trigger for such a rapid change of policy.

 

The rumor may be complete bat-poop, but it's bat-poop that fits my understanding of corporate policy making.

[PathfinderEss]

But Melodie, we are on page 3 of this thread, and it has been civil, polite and a debate going back and forth. You cannot stifle conversation just in case it gets hostile.

 

Yes you can, and our Host has the option to do just that if we get out of hand.

If no one posts, they won't last long. Agree with the posters that say this is an informative thread. I don't read the Ncl board.

 

Good, that's my point. I read the NCL boards, it easy, interesting and lots to learn.

 

I just wanted to throw out one of the main speculations from the NCL board that doesn't appear to have made it to this thread. The NCL thread unfortunately got ugly, so I wouldn't recommend reading it.

 

The rumor is that new regulations will require cruise ships to ban balcony smoking or install very costly fire suppression systems and upgrades. Carnival, NCL, and HAL may simply be annoucing these because, from a financial standpoint, they really don't have much of a choice.

Then wouldn't it follow then that all smoking area's have to have this costly fire suppression system?

Hey look up guys, there is already another smoking thread taking shape. I really am going to get the popcorn out.:eek::eek::eek:

[cruz chic]

If I recall correctly, there was about 6 months notice.

 

I could be wrong but not being able to smoke in the cabin had only a major effect with a few. After all, they still had the balcony.

 

I will be very curious to see how this works in Europe and Asia where there are more smokers (and they are not old) where some of the lines are trying to make inroads

 

Princess doesn't allow smoking and they sent the sapphire over to Asia. The sapphire is a much loved ship and they modified the ship for that market. If they didn't think they could fill it I doubt they would have done that. My guess is that it won't make any difference. I doubt celebrity is hurting either.

[Cretia]

<snip>

 

Then wouldn't it follow then that all smoking area's have to have this costly fire suppression system?

 

<snip>

 

Not necessarily. In areas outside of staterooms/balconies, staff are much more likely to be around, which means less time a fire is likely to smolder and more time to react before it gets out of control.

[cruz chic]

Yes you can, and our Host has the option to do just that if we get out of hand.

 

 

Good, that's my point. I read the NCL boards, it easy, interesting and lots to learn.

 

 

Then wouldn't it follow then that all smoking area's have to have this costly fire suppression system?

Hey look up guys, there is already another smoking thread taking shape. I really am going to get the popcorn out.:eek::eek::eek:

 

I have no desire to read other boards when I have no intension to sail with them. It isn't a matter of difficulty. I'm out of the house working for 11 hours a day. I'm not looking for anything to fill time. You are under no obligation to read threads but please don't decide for others what we can and can't comment on. I believe that is the job of the mods.

[Hlitner]

Princess doesn't allow smoking and they sent the sapphire over to Asia. The sapphire is a much loved ship and they modified the ship for that market. If they didn't think they could fill it I doubt they would have done that. My guess is that it won't make any difference. I doubt celebrity is hurting either.

 

The irony is that Princess, after suffering a tragic fire (that is assumed to have been started by a lit cigarette that flew onto a balcony) modified all their vessels with fire suppression and detection systems on their balconies. Then, within a few years they decided to ban balcony smoking, after having spent millions to install those new systems. Compare this to HAL which will soon be the only mass market line to allow balcony smoking, and not have any kind of fire detection/suppression systems on the balconies.

 

Hank

[Fouremco]

My point in the first comment was to respond to the person who suggested relatively few smokers would STOP sailing HAL because of a change that would no longer allow balcony smoking and wouldn't offer an alternative other than going outside. I'm not sure that is so.

That's a misrepresentation of what I said. In response to a question posed by another poster, I indicated that, given the choice between not smoking on your balcony or stopping cruising altogether, I believed that the majority of HAL's smokers would opt to go to a deck or wherever to smoke.

[Aquahound]

I agree with this totally. People will say they will leave, very few will.

 

Agreed. Besides, that debate made sense when Princess or Celebrity balconies went smoke free, but not now after so many have done it. We've seen what the answer is. The ships still sail full, and the smokers are still on board. There really isn't much room for discussion when the results have been right in front if us for years now.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Aquahound

[magandab]

Just so you know, there is a high probability that someone will call. You rude. Not me, though. I'll call you opportunistic joke re-appropriator. But I do so with kindness, fondness & respect.

 

I appreciate that. It's always an honor to let Teacher know that grasshopper has learned the lesson well.

[kazu]

Princess doesn't allow smoking and they sent the sapphire over to Asia. The sapphire is a much loved ship and they modified the ship for that market. If they didn't think they could fill it I doubt they would have done that. My guess is that it won't make any difference. I doubt celebrity is hurting either.

I believe they have more inside smoking areas on this ship than HAL does

 

Ie. Specified areas of nightclubs, cigar bar, areas of outside deck and casino

 

That's a lot of options, including with a drink. Far different from HAL 's current alternatives;)

[cruisemom42]

That's a misrepresentation of what I said. In response to a question posed by another poster, I indicated that, given the choice between not smoking on your balcony or stopping cruising altogether, I believed that the majority of HAL's smokers would opt to go to a deck or wherever to smoke.

 

My apologies. When I first read it, I must have misunderstood.

 

At any rate, I did quote you in my original response.

[PathfinderEss]

I have no desire to read other boards when I have no intension to sail with them. It isn't a matter of difficulty. I'm out of the house working for 11 hours a day. I'm not looking for anything to fill time. You are under no obligation to read threads but please don't decide for others what we can and can't comment on. I believe that is the job of the mods.

 

Oh come on cruz chic, I did not suggest that you had to read other boards, I just said they are interesting and there is alot to learn by reading them. I'm still trying to figure out if I want to go try another cruise line. So I read other boards, as I did when we cruise Princess, Celebrity, RC, Crystal and Carnivale.

Edited July 16, 2014 by PathfinderEss

[Fouremco]

My apologies. When I first read it, I must have misunderstood.

 

At any rate, I did quote you in my original response.

No worries, Cruisemom42.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Fouremco

[cruz chic]

Oh come on cruz chic, I did not suggest that you had to read other boards, I just said they are interesting and there is alot to learn by reading them. I'm still trying to figure out if I want to go try another cruise line. So I read other boards, as I did when we cruise Princess, Celebrity, RC, Crystal and Carnivale.

 

It sounded to me that you suggested that I should read them. If that was not your intent I do apologize. There have been a few too many nasty remarks made to me lately when I've pointed out I don't have a lot of free time. The last thing I need is another job.

[Christine Frances]

I believe they have more inside smoking areas on this ship than HAL does

 

 

 

Ie. Specified areas of nightclubs, cigar bar, areas of outside deck and casino

 

 

 

That's a lot of options, including with a drink. Far different from HAL 's current alternatives;)

 

 

Celebrity has absolutely no inside smoking areas at all including the casino.

 

 

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