Possible man overboard on Grandeur

[MaritimeR&R]

I find it interesting that:

 

one person thinks I might be Jim Walker in disguise; I am a 64 yr old retired educator and grandmother as well as a solo traveler with no intentions of ever leaping to my death from a ship.

 

the original purpose of my post was to report the "alleged incident" and to address the possible negative impact of this most recent alleged incident on the talks in D.C and NOT to affirm or support the article by Jim Walker that I referenced (for those who might wish to read it) and yet, the thrust of most posts on this thread concern the journalistic, societal, and professional ethics of Jim Walker.

[Paulxyz2004]

The cruise industry needs some enemies.

 

 

Really? Why?:confused:

 

I don´t think anyone, be it a human, animal or industry needs enemies.

 

Constructive critical comments and discussions - yes. Enemies like him certainly not.

[Paulxyz2004]

I find it interesting that:

 

one person thinks I might be Jim Walker in disguise; I am a 64 yr old retired educator and grandmother as well as a solo traveler with no intentions of ever leaping to my death from a ship.

 

the original purpose of my post was to report the "alleged incident" and to address the possible negative impact of this most recent alleged incident on the talks in D.C and NOT to affirm or support the article by Jim Walker that I referenced (for those who might wish to read it) and yet, the thrust of most posts on this thread concern the journalistic, societal, and professional ethics of Jim Walker.

 

 

I´d say Mission failed then.

[Charles4515]

Blows my mind how some people decide to end it... I mean if you are going to do it put some thought into it.

 

Jumping off a ship... Could float for hours before drowning... Which is slow and painful in itself....Jeez... Some people.

 

And the authors comment about the ship not going back.... As if they were wrong to keep going.... !?!? Its 12 hours in the middle f the ocean and he was 70.... Lets be realistic about his chances... And finding that exact spot plus currents and drift...come on.... Is this even a legit source?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

Some jump in front of a train. That is much worse. The train driver can't stop in time and has to live with that. The train crew and responders have to see the horrible gory aftermath. Jumping off a ship or in front of a train seems to be an impulse. If they fail they don't tend to try again. You can't fence in a whole railroad because passengers have to access the tracks to get on the trains and on ships no matter high the railings a person can climb over. Man overboard systems are a good idea, but even when they are installed after someone hits the water the odds are not going to be that good. Prevention in advance is what is needed.

[MaritimeR&R]

I´d say Mission failed then.

 

Definitely. lol.

[Tony O]

Seeing the source I knew it was not worth reading the article.:rolleyes:

 

Agree

[Aquahound]

...and yet, the thrust of most posts on this thread concern the journalistic, societal, and professional ethics of Jim Walker.

 

Well of course it is. Walker brings this upon himself by the reputation he, himself, created. A lot of it has to do with comments like this, that you posted...

 

The non compliance with the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act of 2010 is going to be another bad mark for the cruise industry at the hearings in D.C.

 

How is the ship not in compliance? I'm familiar with this act and the part about man overboard detection says "to the extent technology is available." You can't just snap your fingers and have such a sophisticated new system installed. Available is the key word.

[luv2cruiserccl]

Well of course it is. Walker brings this upon himself by the reputation he, himself, created. A lot of it has to do with comments like this, that you posted...

 

 

 

How is the ship not in compliance? I'm familiar with this act and the part about man overboard detection says "to the extent technology is available." You can't just snap your fingers and have such a sophisticated new system installed. Available is the key word.

 

Plus usally first generation anything has bugs flaws needs to have testing done it takes time.

 

sent from my galaxy s4 please excuse any error's thanks

[celebrity]

LIKE!

 

While the suicide is very sad, that's not the point of the article. Sadly, Jim Walker sees a passenger death as another way to discredit the cruise lines and make a buck.:mad: He doesn't care at all about the human side of the story, which to me is the story...not the cruise lines' failure to immediately take ships out of service to install systems that are just now coming available. You or I hear about a cruise ship death and we immediately think of the passenger and the family. Jim Walker hears about a cruise ship death and he thinks about dollars -- lots of dollars.

 

My fear is that at some point the government is going to step in and legislate measures that will make a cruise not a cruise -- like unclimbable plexiglass walls and chain-link overhead in open areas.:mad: You can't save everybody who does something stupid when they're drunk, and unfortunately you can't prevent every suicide either.:(

 

Well said Cindy. Every time I read about someone ending their life by jumping overboard, I immediately say a prayer for the lost soul and his/ her grieving family.

Jim Walker's agenda is not about passenger's safety. Jim Walker 's agenda is his fat wallet.

I bet he has never stepped foot on a cruise ship.

Edited August 10, 2014 by celebrity

[Charles4515]

Really? Why?:confused:

 

I don´t think anyone, be it a human, animal or industry needs enemies.

 

Constructive critical comments and discussions - yes. Enemies like him certainly not.

 

 

Certainly some need enemies. Hitler needed enemies. Stalin needed enemies. Tobacco companies need enemies.

 

I don't think the cruise industry needs enemies in that sense that those above needed enemies but cruise passengers need advocates because the cruise industry can be greedy. It does need critics and oversight. But rational criticism and oversight. Walker unfortunately tends to often be a lunatic rather than constructive.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Charles4515
jjj

[Paulxyz2004]

Certainly some need enemies. Hitler needed enemies. Stalin needed enemies. Tobacco companies need enemies.

 

I don't think the cruise industry needs enemies in that sense that those above needed enemies but cruise passengers need advocates because the cruise industry can be greedy. It does need critics and oversight. But rational criticism and oversight. Walker unfortunately tends to often be a lunatic rather than constructive.

 

 

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don´t think any enemies are needed.

 

I agree with you on the highlighted Points though.

 

Greed IMO is a good, no a great Thing in any industry. A Business is a Business and Needs to make Money. The more Money they make with greed the better for me as a shareholder and more Cruises for me. Sorry I don´t buy much into consumer rights and definitely the consumer is NOT always right.

[minniemouse100]

pray for this man and hope he found the peace he was seeking. its a horrible thing that this is the only option that he felt he had.

[Charles4515]

 

 

 

the original purpose of my post was to report the "alleged incident" and to address the possible negative impact of this most recent alleged incident on the talks in D.C and NOT to affirm or support the article by Jim Walker that I referenced (for those who might wish to read it) and yet, the thrust of most posts on this thread concern the journalistic, societal, and professional ethics of Jim Walker.

 

 

The reason that there is a thrust about Walker's ethics is because there are many doubts about them. For example he claims concern about passengers overboard but when Cuban rafters are rescued he rants about the rescues because the US sends them back to Cuba. So does he think it would be better if the rafters drown? I never read an objection from him about the US policy. Only about the cruise lines rescuing the rafters. He is a hypocrite.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Charles4515
mm

[lisiamc]

Clicking on his website supports him and I refuse to do it as I consider him an enemy of the cruise industry.

 

I agree! I will wait until it's reported elsewhere. If he reported that the sky was blue, I'd check several other sources before I took his word.

[MaritimeR&R]

pray for this man and hope he found the peace he was seeking. its a horrible thing that this is the only option that he felt he had.

 

Believe it or not, there was a time when some people thought jumping overboard was an expedient and inexpensive way to end ones' life.

 

My father worked for the cruise lines for almost 50 years: White Star, Cunard-White, Moore-McCormack and finally for Princess until his death in 1969; many of the people who worked alongside him (including him) saw death at sea to be efficient. They lived through World Wars, the Depression, and saw the expense of a funeral as a burden to their families.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

[quote name='MaritimeR&R']Believe it or not, there was a time when some people thought jumping overboard was an expedient and inexpensive way to end ones' life.

My father worked for the cruise lines for almost 50 years: White Star, Cunard-White, Moore-McCormack and finally for Princess until his death in 1969; many of the people who worked alongside him (including him) saw death at sea to be efficient. They lived through World Wars, the Depression, and saw the expense of a funeral as a burden to their families.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point.

Plus the assumption that he was depressed may not be correct either. He could have had a terminal disease and opted this out rather than undergo expensive, painful, and possibly fruitless medical intervention. He could have developed early onset alzheimer's and set up a system to help him know when to end it (the utter horror of early onset is you are aware of what you lose day by day and often people will set up some kind of reminder question series that will pop up on their phone or computer and have a link to a file with their plans to end it when they cannot answer the questions anymore).

Yes, feel for their friends and family. But don't assume that they were depressed.

[Charles4515]

[quote name='MaritimeR&R']Believe it or not, there was a time when some people thought jumping overboard was an expedient and inexpensive way to end ones' life.



My father worked for the cruise lines for almost 50 years: White Star, Cunard-White, Moore-McCormack and finally for Princess until his death in 1969; many of the people who worked alongside him (including him) saw death at sea to be efficient. They lived through World Wars, the Depression, and saw the expense of a funeral as a burden to their families.[/QUOTE]


But that is just wrong. Jumping overboard involves other people who should not be involved. Crew and passengers. It puts a burden on strangers.

As far as expense of funerals, that can be avoided with cremation.

[Charles4515]

[quote name='WrittenOnYourHeart']Excellent point.



Plus the assumption that he was depressed may not be correct either. He could have had a terminal disease and opted this out rather than undergo expensive, painful, and possibly fruitless medical intervention. He could have developed early onset alzheimer's and set up a system to help him know when to end it (the utter horror of early onset is you are aware of what you lose day by day and often people will set up some kind of reminder question series that will pop up on their phone or computer and have a link to a file with their plans to end it when they cannot answer the questions anymore).



Yes, feel for their friends and family. But don't assume that they were depressed.[/QUOTE]


It could be that the person had a terminal disease but jumping overboard would still be wrong. If they want to end it they should find a way that does not put the burden on strangers.

[leaveitallbehind]

[quote name='LMaxwell']Most people know he is the ambulance chaser type, but let's also face facts that his site reported factual news and this is the first it made it to CC. You don't have to like or respect him to acknowledge that he has provided us with news.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't conclude that the "news" he reported is anything factual until it is confirmed by additional reliable sources. And the only thing reliable abut him is his overtly biased agenda against the cruise industry. That IMO clouds whatever factual truths may be reported by him.

The only information available at this point to my knowledge is that it is believed that a passenger committed suicide by jumping overboard. Nothing more.

I'm not sure I understand any significance either by this being the first that made it to CC, which only happened as a result of the OP copying the link to their post. So what? :confused: That doesn't make him (or the information he presents) any more credible. Edited August 10, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[MaritimeR&R]

[quote name='Charles4515']But that is just wrong. Jumping overboard involves other people who should not be involved. Crew and passengers. It puts a burden on strangers.

As far as expense of funerals, that can be avoided with cremation.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree that involves other people, placing a burden on strangers, however some people given the choice of burdening strangers short term or burdening their family possibly long term would opt to burden strangers. Our society is filled with programs that reinforce the notion that the whole should provide for the one and many people are comfortable with that mindset.

[celebrity]

[quote name='Charles4515']But that is just wrong. Jumping overboard involves other people who should not be involved. Crew and passengers. It puts a burden on strangers.

As far as expense of funerals, that can be avoided with cremation.[/QUOTE]

Since we don't know the motivation of this passenger...It could have been depression, drunkeness, temporary insanity, a terminal illness, etc,
I think it's safe it say that funeral expenses were not his concern. His interest was to end his life and funeral expenses don't even enter the equation.

[Goofyisme]

I was on this cruise and there were no indications whatsoever that something was amiss either on the ship or at the dock. Seems to me that had something happenned there would have been appropriate authorities at the dock and none were apparent.

[Arizona Cruz Chic]

Can we please put aside the article and it's opinions and remember that this gentleman has taken his own life and has left his family to deal with its aftermath.

Prayers to this mans family, I hope he is at least at peace.

***

[BND]

[quote name='Arizona Cruz Chic']Can we please put aside the article and it's opinions and remember that this gentleman has taken his own life and has left his family to deal with its aftermath.

Prayers to this mans family, I hope he is at least at peace.

***[/QUOTE]

Well, since this article is the only "information" we have no way of knowing if it really happened or not. If you do a google search the only things that come up are the original "story" and this thread. Pretty unusual since every man overboard is normally on the news within a day or so, regardless of how or why it happened. I think we need to question the original story on the questionable site. Walker even says "if this information is accurate" and "allegedly" and is not corroborated by any other source so I'm saying this probably never happened. Edited August 10, 2014 by BND

[Charles4515]

[quote name='Arizona Cruz Chic']Can we please put aside the article and it's opinions and remember that this gentleman has taken his own life and has left his family to deal with its aftermath.



Prayers to this mans family, I hope he is at least at peace.



***[/QUOTE]


This thread is about the article. An article that says a man allegedly went overboard. That has not even been confirmed. The article seems more about giving Walker another platform to claim that the cruise lines are not in compliance with the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act than whether a man in fact went overboard. Walker always leaves out the part of the act that says "to the extent technology is available". Even if it turns out to be a true that a man went overboard that is not what this particular thread is about. It is about Walker using the alleged incident to push his agenda to paint the cruise industry as evil. It is about an opportunist. Edited August 10, 2014 by Charles4515
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