Why is everyone hating on formal nights?

[cruz chic]

On the first issue of logistics, HAL knows how many choose fixed vs. flexible dining. If there is an excess, of fixed dining requests, the passenger is told that a sitting or seatings are booked and only flexible dining is available. But the dining room is assigned based on the requests for fixed and early/late seating. Usually 15 minutes after a seating time, a vacant table opens and I have been walked from the open seating dining room to the fixed seating dining room. The same could still happen.

 

As for the second issue of folks who want flexible dining and formal attire, nothing would stop them from wearing formal attire in the resort casual dining room; only the reverse. Additionally, they could see if there was any availability in the formal dining room as the likelihood would exist that there would be some passengers in the fixed seating who would prefer not to do formal night.

 

A little extra work for HAL but it would put an end to all of this and preserve the existence of formal night for all those who enjoy it.

 

As it stands, because the public voted with their feet there are very, very few fine dining establishments that require jacket and tie, or even jacket only for that matter anymore. No one is prohibited from wearing a jacket or jacket and tie but it is not required. I would hate to see this happen with HAL, particularly with the under 50 crowd voting with their feet to other lines. Anecdotes aside, demographics are not on the side of formal night.

Yes, a little more work for HAL, just what they need. Service is lacking big time in the MDR. It works the way it is so what is, so why should people that do respect their wishes have to bend to assist those that do not want to dress up? That makes zero sense. If it isn't to your taste do as the other poster suggested and write, email etc. HAL.

[sail7seas]

Seems to me the mid-twenty something year olds are starting to dress more lately than they used to. The women are dressing professionally in the same sleeveless summer sheath dresses :) and lots of the young men are in jackets either with or without ties. It has caught my attention this new crowd coming along, particularly the young professionals, are taking a lot of pride in their appearance.

 

They look lovely on the ships at dinner. Sure there are always exceptions and no doubt someone will rush to tell me about the flip flops and wet swimsuits they saw at dinner. :D

 

 

[sandthrush]

It does zero to write, email, post messages on facebook. I've learned that thru experience. Could you kindly point out the post(s) that bullies you into dressing? I don't recall anyone insisting that you dress up. I really don't care if you don't. The thing I don't care for is when people complain that can't get into the MDR based on their dress.

 

I'm not going to point them out to you. I'm not going to play that game.

Edited August 28, 2014 by sandthrush

[cruz chic]

One of the most offensive ones has been removed. I'm not going to point them out to you. I'm not going to play that game.

 

So really nothing then. You don't have to play any game you don't wish to but when you say something like that you have to know someone is going to ask. I think some folks seem to take any suggestion contrary to what they believe is bullying. I don't recall anyone on this board forcing anyone to dress up. To me, that would be bullying.

[babyher]

Seems to me the mid-twenty something year olds are starting to dress more lately than they used to. The women are dressing professionally in the same sleeveless summer sheath dresses :) and lots of the young men are in jackets either with or without ties. It has caught my attention this new crowd coming along, particularly the young professionals, are taking a lot of pride in their appearance.

 

They look lovely on the ships at dinner. Sure there are always exceptions and no doubt someone will rush to tell me about the flip flops and wet swimsuits they saw at dinner. :D

 

 

 

 

Like you said there are always exceptions.

 

 

But sometimes it might have to do their jobs or careers . My DD is 28 she works in the fashion industry, travels all over for the company , and yes has to wear the corporate "uniform" for meetings and functions and what have you. Of course this is what she went to school for and what she lives for.

 

My son on the other hand , 26, is a plumber . Obviously does not need to dress up for work. If he can't get in with dress pants, dress shirt and a tie (don't say the J word) He's not going.

 

And this is a kid who lives in the gym, is buff, and ripped and has an six pack, takes 3 showers a day . So it's not that he is lazy or sloppy.

[cbr663]

The very first post by the OP is an attempt to bully people into dressing.

 

"Man-up and dress-up you land loving, whining Applebee's types".

 

There certainly isn't anything complimentary about that statement. It's degrading and an attempt to humiliate posters by insulting them and calling them names.

[Wakepatrol]

The very first post by the OP is an attempt to bully people into dressing.

 

"Man-up and dress-up you land loving, whining Applebee's types".

 

There certainly isn't anything complimentary about that statement. It's degrading and an attempt to humiliate posters by insulting them and calling them names.

 

 

The only thing I find degrading is Applebees:o

[POA1]

Bolding is mine. This is only true if the the tables downstairs turnover only 2x a night. I would guess it is more, but I don't know for sure.

Since most of the ships converted from fixed to fixed/open seating, wouldn't it still be half the dining room? The room couldn't have gotten bigger. They could have added tables downstairs, but I don't know if that happened.

[waASPCrusier]

Since most of the ships converted from fixed to fixed/open seating, wouldn't it still be half the dining room? The room couldn't have gotten bigger. They could have added tables downstairs, but I don't know if that happened.

 

Sorry I didn't realize you were alluding to space, then yes I would guess the space is about the same. I thought you were showing how popular it was by saying the same size. My bad.

[serendipity1499]

So really nothing then. You don't have to play any game you don't wish to but when you say something like that you have to know someone is going to ask. I think some folks seem to take any suggestion contrary to what they believe is bullying. I don't recall anyone on this board forcing anyone to dress up. To me, that would be bullying.

 

Well obviously you have forgotten the first post made by the OP..His last line is offensive & as CBR pointed out, is an attempt to bully others into enjoying & dressing for Formal nights!

 

The very first post by the OP is an attempt to bully people into dressing.

 

"Man-up and dress-up you land loving, whining Applebee's types".

 

There certainly isn't anything complimentary about that statement. It's degrading and an attempt to humiliate posters by insulting them and calling them names.

 

Completely agree! I happen to enjoy formal nights. however it's been pointed out to me that my choice of a skirt or palazzo pants with sparkly tops is not considered Formal.. I couldn't care less!

 

My DH on the other hand was becoming tired of all the Formal nights on our long Prinsendam cruise..I think it was because he had to dress in either his suit or his Tux.. That for me would be quite boring, as I enjoy dressing in different outfits..

 

So for DH's sake, I'm happy to hear that HAL has cut back on the number of Formal nights...

Edited August 28, 2014 by serendipity1499

[Fouremco]

on the first issue of logistics, hal knows how many choose fixed vs. Flexible dining. If there is an excess, of fixed dining requests, the passenger is told that a sitting or seatings are booked and only flexible dining is available. But the dining room is assigned based on the requests for fixed and early/late seating. Usually 15 minutes after a seating time, a vacant table opens and i have been walked from the open seating dining room to the fixed seating dining room. The same could still happen.

 

I'm fully aware of how HAL handles dining. What you are suggesting is basing dining choice on a combination of dress and seating preference. Passengers are already noting how it is difficult to get the type of dining they want without adding another element to be factored in.

 

as for the second issue of folks who want flexible dining and formal attire, nothing would stop them from wearing formal attire in the resort casual dining room; only the reverse.

 

If you read this and related threads, it is clear that the reason those who support formal night see it as an all-inclusive venture and enjoy the ambiance of a dining room filled with people similarly dressed. What you are suggesting defeats the whole purpose. Why would you think that they would be happy dressing up in a dining room filled with casually dressed passengers when they are unhappy in a formal dining room when even a small minority don't meet the dress requirements?

 

Additionally, they could see if there was any availability in the formal dining room as the likelihood would exist that there would be some passengers in the fixed seating who would prefer not to do formal night.

 

So, now passengers would have to report where they plan on dining each night? Otherwise, how would HAL know?

 

A little extra work for hal but it would put an end to all of this and preserve the existence of formal night for all those who enjoy it.

 

Sounds to me like a whole bunch more work, both for HAL and the passengers. As HAL has difficulty keeping current levels of service, the last thing they need to take on is a new, complex dining system with questionable benefits.

 

As it stands, because the public voted with their feet there are very, very few fine dining establishments that require jacket and tie, or even jacket only for that matter anymore. No one is prohibited from wearing a jacket or jacket and tie but it is not required. I would hate to see this happen with hal, particularly with the under 50 crowd voting with their feet to other lines. Anecdotes aside, demographics are not on the side of formal night.

 

[Windsailer]

Interestingly enough, we were on a 5 day cruise from San Diego to Vancouver - a fun way to get home after visiting relatives in San Diego. It was the tail end of a World Cruise on the Amsterdam. Our e-docs said 5 smart casual nights - so that's what we (and everyone else who boarded in San Diego planned on. Then the Captain decided there need to be one more formal night on the World Cruise. Apparently, after hearing some grumbling, that night was made Formal Optional. So you had folks dressed in smart casual attire (us and many other) along with the folks dressed more formally. (I won't say "Formal" because black pants and a "sparkly" shirt and tan slacks with a brown jacket - no tie simply isn't "Formal" dress)

 

All of us sat side by side in the MDR enjoying our lobster tails and escargot and no one dressed more formally seemed bent out of shape. It didn't make the evening any less pleasant.

 

I think this entire mind-set - if you can't dress formally then find another cruiseline - is - and I'll try to be polite - stupid.

 

As my 27 year old son who loves HAL and has his own custom fitted tuxedo would say..."just chill."

[cruz chic]

Well obviously you have forgotten the first post made by the OP..His last line is offensive & as CBR pointed out, is an attempt to bully others into enjoying & dressing for Formal nights! [/size]

 

 

 

Completely agree! I happen to enjoy formal nights. however it's been pointed out to me that my choice of a skirt or palazzo pants with sparkly tops is not considered Formal.. I couldn't care less!

 

My DH on the other hand was becoming tired of all the Formal nights on our long Prinsendam cruise..I think it was because he had to dress in either his suit or his Tux.. That for me would be quite boring, as I enjoy dressing in different outfits..

 

So for DH's sake, I'm happy to hear that HAL has cut back on the number of Formal nights...

 

Yes, I had forgotten the point that the OP said. Bullying is still a pretty strong word. What I don't appreciate is posters that think HAL should just redesign their whole dining structure because they don't want to dress up. That is over the top. When you sign up, you know what you sign up for.

[kangforpres]

Ok- If that's how it is I'm sorry you can be bullied by sarcasm which is a way some of us express ourselves as a coping mechanism when dealing with reality.

 

Sarcasm is often misunderstood by the irony-impaired among us who also usually take everything too seriously and fail at being able to laugh at themselves or the human condition which they are a part of.

 

Just remember Johnathan Swift didn't really mean that the hungry people eat all the orphans during the Great Irish Famine, he was just being sarcastic.

 

So if you can't really "man-up" and get dressed for dinner when it's suggested on a HAL cruise, the rest of us understand your plight. (See there I go again)

 

-Paul

[waASPCrusier]

Yes, I had forgotten the point that the OP said. Bullying is still a pretty strong word. What I don't appreciate is posters that think HAL should just redesign their whole dining structure because they don't want to dress up. That is over the top. When you sign up, you know what you sign up for.

 

Funny as the same could be said about the wine policy and smoking, when you sign up, you know what you sign up for, yet an awful lot of people on CC want the same kind of redesign....

[Windsailer]

Ok- If that's how it is I'm sorry you can be bullied by sarcasm which is a way some of us express ourselves as a coping mechanism when dealing with reality.

 

Sarcasm is often misunderstood by the irony-impaired among us who also usually take everything too seriously and fail at being able to laugh at themselves or the human condition which they are a part of.

 

Just remember Johnathan Swift didn't really mean that the hungry people eat all the orphans during the Great Irish Famine, he was just being sarcastic.

So if you can't really "man-up" and get dressed for dinner when it's suggested on a HAL cruise, the rest of us understand your plight. (See there I go again)

 

-Paul

 

Leaving aside the "man-up" admonition - because I'm being polite this afternoon - if HAL was "suggesting" that we get "dressed" for dinner (perhaps you meant "dressed more formally" - otherwise security would be very busy with cases of indecent exposure) HAL would make all the dining venues (not just the MDR and the Pinnacle Grill) formal on formal night.

[dharmapath]

At the end of the day formal nights will probably be around for a few years on HAL, but the industry is moving to more casual settings so at some point HAL will draw a line in the sand and either say we are gong to stick with traditional cruising knowing that market is only gong to get smaller (hoping to be a niche) or they are going to slowly move towards what paying customers want.

 

And certainly there will be no shortage of threads on CC that will debate it to death.

[navybankerteacher]

The reality is that formal nights are on the way out. Without serious enforcement of a dress code which is increasingly unpopular with an ever-increasing number of cruise passengers, the dwindling number of traditionalists who feel that there are intangible benefits from adhering to old standards will quietly pack it in.

 

There will probably be further downgrading of the MDR menu and service paralleling the obvious preferences of the bulk of passengers. It is already a bit absurd for the linen and the table settings, the uniformed waiters, etc. being so much more formal than the patrons for whom those efforts are made. I anticipate that the included meals will become more cafeteria-like, and the extra-fee restaurants will multiply and gradually become more expensive.

 

While I saw the attractions of the traditional formality, I am not interested in fighting a hopeless rear-guard fight: I no longer pack a tux, and for my upcoming T/A I am seriously questioning packing a suit. A much easier to pack jacket, tie and good trousers is likely to put me in the more formally attired group anyway.

 

I concede.

[Wakepatrol]

What nobody has mentioned is. How can HAL enforce the dress code?

They have passengers with their faces smushed up against the glass , like they haven't eaten in 15 minutes.

 

As soon as they open the doors the guy at the door just gets out of the way before he's trampled.

 

On my recent Carnival cruise they announced the night before that they wouldl be enforcing the dress code on formal night.

 

I don't know if they actually did, but at least they mentioned it.

 

They also announced not to wear basketball shorts on any night into the dining room.

 

Yes we've dumbed cruising so far down, that now we have to be told not to wear basketball shorts to dinner in the dining room.

 

Well, no harm I guess, they also warn people not to use toasters in the bathtub

[Not-My-Real-Name]

The reality is that formal nights are on the way out. Without serious enforcement of a dress code which is increasingly unpopular with an ever-increasing number of cruise passengers, the dwindling number of traditionalists who feel that there are intangible benefits from adhering to old standards will quietly pack it in.

 

There will probably be further downgrading of the MDR menu and service paralleling the obvious preferences of the bulk of passengers. It is already a bit absurd for the linen and the table settings, the uniformed waiters, etc. being so much more formal than the patrons for whom those efforts are made. I anticipate that the included meals will become more cafeteria-like, and the extra-fee restaurants will multiply and gradually become more expensive.

 

While I saw the attractions of the traditional formality, I am not interested in fighting a hopeless rear-guard fight: I no longer pack a tux, and for my upcoming T/A I am seriously questioning packing a suit. A much easier to pack jacket, tie and good trousers is likely to put me in the more formally attired group anyway.

 

I concede.

 

Sorry, but I just don't see the connection with how people dress for dinner causing a death spiral of services in the MDR and downgrading of the MDR menu.

[POA1]

Sorry I didn't realize you were alluding to space, then yes I would guess the space is about the same. I thought you were showing how popular it was by saying the same size. My bad.

Not a problem. I get your point about turnover.

[Fouremco]

What nobody has mentioned is. How can HAL enforce the dress code?

Very simple.

 

First, decide on what dress is acceptable and publish it. Make it consistent within the website and e-docs, and ensure that the same wording is used for any onboard publications.

 

Second, deny entry to the dining rooms to those passengers not meeting the dress requirements. On all ships of the fleet, in a consistent manner.

[LindaM]

I am confused.....we are talking about HAL, correct? The last 3 cruises we've taken on Prinsendam in Europe, people certainly didn't look "formal" to me. One Aussie gentleman wore a casual vest over a casual shirt. His wife was just in regular clothes. It's a good thing I wasn't in anything expensive, because she spilled red wine all over!! We saw many people in the show on formal night dressed in capris! I met a Brit guy at dinner who was in an old tux, but his wife wasn't in anything remotely dressy. On other cruises, we've seen men in the DR tieless.

 

DH wore a blazer/tie, but I didn't bring anything formal, only because I knew people just don't do formal anymore. Dressy yes, formal no. We eat around 6, 6:30. Maybe the people who like to do serious formal eat later. I know HAL has the rules in writing, but I sure didn't see many who followed them! If the majority did do formal seriously, I would....but I hate to be one of the very few who is in a cocktail dress. I dress in something nicer and glitzier, but not formal. It's not out of laziness...I just want to fit in!

[kangforpres]

And I don't think anyone would even pay $399 for an interior if the MDR where turned into a cafeteria. I'm glad to hear Carnival reminds people the day before about formal night. HAL mentions it and invites you to partake in the rich cruising tradition of formal night.

 

All the Cruise lines seem to be upping there game with dining options, usually it means more specialty options and "as you wish" I seriously doubt a trend that would reverse this since quality of food maybe the determining factor on how a customer choices. I don't see any correlation to the losing or lessening of formality would inspire Cruise lines to initiate a decline of food quality.

 

-Paul

[Wakepatrol]

Very simple.

 

First, decide on what dress is acceptable and publish it. Make it consistent within the website and e-docs, and ensure that the same wording is used for any onboard publications.

 

Second, deny entry to the dining rooms to those passengers not meeting the dress requirements. On all ships of the fleet, in a consistent manner.

 

I thought the dress code was/ is published in your documents and in the onboard publications.

 

Tuxedo slowly slid down to dark suit

 

Which sounds fine

 

Now it 's sliding to golf shirts and khakis

Is anyone convinced that a golf shirt and khakis is formal?