Why is everyone hating on formal nights?

[sapete]

Ok- If that's how it is I'm sorry you can be bullied by sarcasm which is a way some of us express ourselves as a coping mechanism when dealing with reality.

 

Sarcasm is often misunderstood by the irony-impaired among us who also usually take everything too seriously and fail at being able to laugh at themselves or the human condition which they are a part of.

 

Just remember Johnathan Swift didn't really mean that the hungry people eat all the orphans during the Great Irish Famine, he was just being sarcastic.

 

So if you can't really "man-up" and get dressed for dinner when it's suggested on a HAL cruise, the rest of us understand your plight. (See there I go again)

 

-Paul

 

Paul,

 

I missed this little demand the first time I read your post and all I have to say is--really?

 

I "man-uped" 40 years ago when I raised my right hand and swore to serve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and did so for over a quarter of a century. I don't think your "request" rises to the same level. As I (in my previous post) and others have said we're not "going to play" for numerous reasons. Please just accept that and enjoy your future cruises and I will enjoy mine.

[sail7seas]

Very simple.

 

First, decide on what dress is acceptable and publish it. Make it consistent within the website and e-docs, and ensure that the same wording is used for any onboard publications.

 

Second, deny entry to the dining rooms to those passengers not meeting the dress requirements. On all ships of the fleet, in a consistent manner.

 

 

 

 

I once asked a good friend who is Hotel Director why HAL does not enforce the dress code. His answer was brief and to the point.

 

He said HAL is in the hospitality business and not in the business of fighting with their guests. Often the worst of the dress code offenders are the most belligerent and are looking for a giht. Thye know what they are wearing is unacceptable but they present themselves at the dining room door looking for someone to confront them. Would you prefer they be seated or for there to be possibly loud, possibly physical, possibly very unpleasant scene trying to 'convince' the offender they should go to Lido? These big offenders are not worth the commotion that could be caused. They crave the attention.

 

 

 

And I don't think anyone would even pay $399 for an interior if the MDR where turned into a cafeteria. I'm glad to hear Carnival reminds people the day before about formal night. HAL mentions it and invites you to partake in the rich cruising tradition of formal night.

 

All the Cruise lines seem to be upping there game with dining options, usually it means more specialty options and "as you wish" I seriously doubt a trend that would reverse this since quality of food maybe the determining factor on how a customer choices. I don't see any correlation to the losing or lessening of formality would inspire Cruise lines to initiate a decline of food quality.

 

-Paul

 

 

 

A seven day cruise for $399 is $57 per night. :eek: You think someone cruising an HAL ship would actually complain to be charged $57 per night?

 

Edited August 28, 2014 by sail7seas

[cruz chic]

Funny as the same could be said about the wine policy and smoking, when you sign up, you know what you sign up for, yet an awful lot of people on CC want the same kind of redesign....

 

I have no problem with the wine policy. Please explain to me how Hal would have to "redesign" to change their smoking policy? Wouldn't they just say smoking is no longer allowed on balconies and perhaps open up more outdoor areas? If I asked Hal to keep all smokers in the opposite end of the ship from me that would be a redesign. I wouldn't suggest such a silly thing.

[POA1]

I thought the dress code was/ is published in your documents and in the onboard publications.

 

Tuxedo slowly slid down to dark suit

 

Which sounds fine

 

Now it 's sliding to golf shirts and khakis

Is anyone convinced that a golf shirt and khakis is formal?

 

It was dark suit in 1994. If it slid to that from tuxedo, it did it a long time ago. Luckily, you can get a full suit with bow tie, pants, and jacket that allows you to look good both on the golf course and in the MDR on formal nights.

 

http://us.loudmouthgolf.com/index.php/men/made-to-order.html

[Lizzie68]

I once asked a good friend who is Hotel Director why HAL does not enforce the dress code. His answer was brief and to the point.

 

He said HAL is in the hospitality business and not in the business of fighting with their guests. Often the worst of the dress code offenders are the most belligerent and are looking for a giht. Thye know what they are wearing is unacceptable but they present themselves at the dining room door looking for someone to confront them. Would you prefer they be seated or for there to be possibly loud, possibly physical, possibly very unpleasant scene trying to 'convince' the offender they should go to Lido? These big offenders are not worth the commotion that could be caused. They crave the attention.

 

[/b]

 

 

I find this very disappointing. I have seen the maitre'd on another cruise line discreetly escort someone outside of the MDR for wearing shorts - and each time the person came back wearing long pants. So why can't HAL do this? If someone got loud, physical and/or unpleasant I am sure security can deal with them.

[Fouremco]

I thought the dress code was/ is published in your documents and in the onboard publications.

The problem is that the website, e-docs and onboard publications don't say the same thing. Hard for passengers to know what's acceptable when HAL isn't quite sure itrself.

[waASPCrusier]

I have no problem with the wine policy. Please explain to me how Hal would have to "redesign" to change their smoking policy? Wouldn't they just say smoking is no longer allowed on balconies and perhaps open up more outdoor areas? If I asked Hal to keep all smokers in the opposite end of the ship from me that would be a redesign. I wouldn't suggest such a silly thing.

 

My point was people complain even though as you put it "when you sign up, you know what you sign up for." As for the redesign, if you are taking areas all can enjoy as no-smoking and making them smoking, that to me is a redesign. You may not feel that way and that is fine, after all my opinion and yours mean very little in the big picture.

[Wakepatrol]

The problem is that the website, e-docs and onboard publications don't say the same thing. Hard for passengers to know what's acceptable when HAL isn't quite sure itrself.

 

Good point. I didn't know this.

[sppunk]

It was dark suit in 1994. If it slid to that from tuxedo, it did it a long time ago. Luckily, you can get a full suit with bow tie, pants, and jacket that allows you to look good both on the golf course and in the MDR on formal nights.

 

http://us.loudmouthgolf.com/index.php/men/made-to-order.html

 

I am buying the Attababe jacket and pants. For real.

[sapete]

I once asked a good friend who is Hotel Director why HAL does not enforce the dress code. His answer was brief and to the point.

 

He said HAL is in the hospitality business and not in the business of fighting with their guests. Often the worst of the dress code offenders are the most belligerent and are looking for a giht. Thye know what they are wearing is unacceptable but they present themselves at the dining room door looking for someone to confront them. Would you prefer they be seated or for there to be possibly loud, possibly physical, possibly very unpleasant scene trying to 'convince' the offender they should go to Lido? These big offenders are not worth the commotion that could be caused. They crave the attention.

 

 

When the HD of the Westerdam was asked the same question in 2012 told me and others on the "Behind the Scenes" tour that, " We are not going to prevent any guest from enjoying any of our venues."

[Wakepatrol]

It was dark suit in 1994. If it slid to that from tuxedo, it did it a long time ago. Luckily, you can get a full suit with bow tie, pants, and jacket that allows you to look good both on the golf course and in the MDR on formal nights.

 

http://us.loudmouthgolf.com/index.php/men/made-to-order.html

 

Thanks. I just picked up one of each

[cruz chic]

My point was people complain even though as you put it "when you sign up, you know what you sign up for." As for the redesign, if you are taking areas all can enjoy as no-smoking and making them smoking, that to me is a redesign. You may not feel that way and that is fine, after all my opinion and yours mean very little in the big picture.

 

You are correct, what both of us think is immaterial. To suggest that Hal change their dining room for people that won't dress up is on a whole different level. Sort of like the great idea a poster had for charging non smokers more. That is just brilliant.

[anniegb]

Hi All

 

I have followed this thread as I am about to embark on my 2nd HAL cruise and I am astonished at the comments from both sides.

 

It is only a cruise.

 

Live and let live.

 

Annie

[Fouremco]

I once asked a good friend who is Hotel Director why HAL does not enforce the dress code. His answer was brief and to the point.

 

He said HAL is in the hospitality business and not in the business of fighting with their guests. Often the worst of the dress code offenders are the most belligerent and are looking for a giht. Thye know what they are wearing is unacceptable but they present themselves at the dining room door looking for someone to confront them. Would you prefer they be seated or for there to be possibly loud, possibly physical, possibly very unpleasant scene trying to 'convince' the offender they should go to Lido? These big offenders are not worth the commotion that could be caused. They crave the attention.

 

 

 

 

 

A seven day cruise for $399 is $57 per night. :eek: You think someone cruising an HAL ship would actually complain to be charged $57 per night?

 

Cop out. Do you think that if a passenger lit up a cigarette while waiting to be seated that the staff would say nothing for the reasons cited? If they are concerned about the passenger becoming abusive, station members of the security staff at the entrance, although I doubt they'd ever be required. Besides, once passengers realized that HAL actually intended to enforce its rules, the nonsense would stop.

[cruz chic]

At the end of the day formal nights will probably be around for a few years on HAL, but the industry is moving to more casual settings so at some point HAL will draw a line in the sand and either say we are gong to stick with traditional cruising knowing that market is only gong to get smaller (hoping to be a niche) or they are going to slowly move towards what paying customers want.

 

And certainly there will be no shortage of threads on CC that will debate it to death.

 

I've hear the prediction of death of formal night on here for years. There are still many cruise lines that have formal nights. Hal is usually the last to do anything. If it takes as long to change the formal policy as it does the smoking I'll be dead or too old to cruise.. I'm 53 now.

[Wakepatrol]

Cop out. Do you think that if a passenger lit up a cigarette while waiting to be seated that the staff would say nothing for the reasons cited? If they are concerned about the passenger becoming abusive, station members of the security staff at the entrance, although I doubt they'd ever be required. Besides, once passengers realized that HAL actually intended to enforce its rules, the nonsense would stop.

 

Exactly- how about a passenger uses foul language to the lady at the desk, they put them and their bags ashore at the next port.

 

Why does a gazillion dollar company let the inmates run the asylum?

[sapete]

Cop out. Do you think that if a passenger lit up a cigarette while waiting to be seated that the staff would say nothing for the reasons cited? If they are concerned about the passenger becoming abusive, station members of the security staff at the entrance, although I doubt they'd ever be required. Besides, once passengers realized that HAL actually intended to enforce its rules, the nonsense would stop.

 

I think that both of the HD examples ways indicating nothing but the HDs implying that HAL was not and will not enforce the "suggestions" that they make and nothing more.

[Windsailer]

The Know Before You Go document for my upcoming cruise on the Amsterdam says this:

 

"On festive Formal evenings, ladies wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a suit and tie or tuxedo."

 

This is also is says in the regular Dress Code section under cruise preparation.

 

So my question is: why do so many HAL traditionalists on this board say that just black pants, a "sparkly" shirt, a sports jacket are OK on "Formal" night. Really , how is that any different than a nice pair of RL slacks and shirt?

 

Seems to me that these HAL traditionalists need to do "Formal" consistent with the HAL rules.

[ellieanne]

It was dark suit in 1994. If it slid to that from tuxedo, it did it a long time ago. Luckily, you can get a full suit with bow tie, pants, and jacket that allows you to look good both on the golf course and in the MDR on formal nights.

 

http://us.loudmouthgolf.com/index.php/men/made-to-order.html

 

The Norwegian Curling Team uses this company for its "uniforms."

They had 10 different looks for the past winter Olympics.

 

And why not? Who says men's fashion has to be boring? I love them and would love to see more guys being loud like this.

[cruz chic]

The Know Before You Go document for my upcoming cruise on the Amsterdam says this:

 

"On festive Formal evenings, ladies wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a suit and tie or tuxedo."

 

This is also is says in the regular Dress Code section under cruise preparation.

 

So my question is: why do so many HAL traditionalists on this board say that just black pants, a "sparkly" shirt, a sports jacket are OK on "Formal" night. Really , how is that any different than a nice pair of RL slacks and shirt?

 

Seems to me that these HAL traditionalists need to do "Formal" consistent with the HAL rules.

Can't speak for others but I always wear a dress, both long and short (either/or). A sparkly top doesn't sound overly dressy but who am I? I've seen woman wearing a sweater and pants and throwing a wool like scarf over the shoulders and call it formal. I guess it's fake it till you make it:D.

[Fouremco]

The Know Before You Go document for my upcoming cruise on the Amsterdam says this:

 

"On festive Formal evenings, ladies wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a suit and tie or tuxedo."

 

This is also is says in the regular Dress Code section under cruise preparation.

 

So my question is: why do so many HAL traditionalists on this board say that just black pants, a "sparkly" shirt, a sports jacket are OK on "Formal" night. Really , how is that any different than a nice pair of RL slacks and shirt?

 

Seems to me that these HAL traditionalists need to do "Formal" consistent with the HAL rules.

At the risk of being repetitive, HAL simply isn't consistent. Compare the information you have provided to that which appears in my e-docs for a cruise next month:

 

"On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week."

 

Quite a bit more latitude in the e-docs version.

[navybankerteacher]

Sorry, but I just don't see the connection with how people dress for dinner causing a death spiral of services in the MDR and downgrading of the MDR menu.

 

The more people want a casual eating experience -- while seeking lower cruise fares - the less sense it makes for cruise lines to hire the number of waiters it takes to provide a formal dining environment. The lines have already started realizing savings by reducing the MDR food quality, recognizing that people who want quality in food and service enough will pay for it in the special restaurants.

 

The bulk of the passengers who want low prices, and come-as-you-are eating really do not particularly care if the waiters wear formal uniforms, serve food on Rosenthal China placed on linen table clothes. It makes no sense for a cruise line to spend the money for their half of a formal experience - when the paying customers really want fast service at low cost with no particular rules.

 

If you had any long term cruising experience, you would have noticed the deterioration in food quality and service which has already taken place over the last dozen years or so.

[Wakepatrol]

Good post- Hal should just get rid of all staff and make the dining room a giant Automat. Cruisers can now just swipe their ship card and get an egg salad sandwich made in East Rutherford.

 

Put one in the lido as well. They'll only need one worker to fill the machines daily.

Nothing like a bologna sandwich and a Twinkie as I sit in my cargo shorts on my wraparound balcony

Edited August 29, 2014 by Wakepatrol

[serendipity1499]

The Know Before You Go document for my upcoming cruise on the Amsterdam says this:

 

"On festive Formal evenings, ladies wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a suit and tie or tuxedo."

 

This is also is says in the regular Dress Code section under cruise preparation.

 

So my question is: why do so many HAL traditionalists on this board say that just black pants, a "sparkly" shirt, a sports jacket are OK on "Formal" night. Really , how is that any different than a nice pair of RL slacks and shirt?

 

Seems to me that these HAL traditionalists need to do "Formal" consistent with the HAL rules.[/QUOTE]

 

When you get your E-Docs, suggest you check to see how they are worded! Unfortunately HAL's written word is not consistent, so how can they & you expect Psgrs. to be consistent..

[Not-My-Real-Name]

The more people want a casual eating experience -- while seeking lower cruise fares - the less sense it makes for cruise lines to hire the number of waiters it takes to provide a formal dining environment. The lines have already started realizing savings by reducing the MDR food quality, recognizing that people who want quality in food and service enough will pay for it in the special restaurants.

 

The bulk of the passengers who want low prices, and come-as-you-are eating really do not particularly care if the waiters wear formal uniforms, serve food on Rosenthal China placed on linen table clothes. It makes no sense for a cruise line to spend the money for their half of a formal experience - when the paying customers really want fast service at low cost with no particular rules.

 

If you had any long term cruising experience, you would have noticed the deterioration in food quality and service which has already taken place over the last dozen years or so.

 

We've been cruising for over 30 years, and have 2 future cruises booked. We don't mind going to the Lido on formal night(s) but one or two nights is enough. We also enjoy going to specialty restaurants for a quieter atmosphere. We don't come-as-we-are dress wise, DH always wears slacks and a button down collar, and I wear slacks and a nice top.

 

I still like being able to select my food from a menu and having it served to me. I really don't care if my server is formally dressed, just so they are neat and clean.

 

I have noticed some decline in food quantity and quality, not just on cruise ships, but also in restaurants at home, but mostly I'm just happy that I didn't have to cook it.

 

Maybe what I have described makes us part of the "problem".

 

Just hope that your scenario doesn't play out, as that will end cruising for us.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Not-My-Real-Name