Is RCL heading in the Wrong Direction... ?

[grandmarnnurse]

Agree....glad I'm not alone.

 

700+ nights on RCI = Pinnacle

700+ nights on various cruise lines, Priceless!

 

I agree with those statements, also. I choose a ship for what it has to offer, and I, too, may remain a Gold member forever--who knows what the future holds. I apologize if I offended any D+ people who were complaining about dwindling perks, but I just thought it all so petty. I am just thrilled to be able to cruise--and to enjoy every single moment I am on that ship, without worrying about what was or what might be given to me in the future. I generally accept change in good stride. I was thrown for a loop when they were saying my cruise was going to Dynamic Dining--but not because I wouldn't like it (or my husband) but the family members (including teens) that we are traveling with. But now it is on hold until March, so we will still have MDR. I am so excited for the Oasis and what it has to offer! I hope that Royal continues to update and change (for the better) to make life more interesting and fun. I am just not ready for the geriatric cruises of Holland!!

[Aquahound]

Make that 5 of us....at least 5 from the last few posts. ;) I don't care at all when RCI or any other cruise line tweaks their frequent cruiser perks. I'm not loyal to only one brand, and part of what keeps RCI at the top of my favorites list is the fact they keep making something new...something that isn't the same as everything they already have. And unlike some of the other cruise lines, when RCI does make something new, it's a smash hit.

[Starry Eyes]

Make that 5 of us....at least 5 from the last few posts. ;) I don't care at all when RCI or any other cruise line tweaks their frequent cruiser perks. I'm not loyal to only one brand, and part of what keeps RCI at the top of my favorites list is the fact they keep making something new...something that isn't the same as everything they already have. And unlike some of the other cruise lines, when RCI does make something new, it's a smash hit.

 

I too like Royal Caribbean's product, and thet is most important. I understand if they tweak things. Right now, the loyalty benefits are sweet enough to make me favor Royal Caribbean and Celebrity over other lines if all else is equal. (I get nice loyalty benefits from NCL, too, but IMHO their service has slipped to much for me to put them near the top of the list now).

 

Still, if the right itinerary is offered by another line...or if there is another ship that appeals to us...or if the price of a comparable cruise is much better on another line, we will happily book another line. Same for land vacations.

[Paulette3028]

But maybe you would book your excursion before your cruise, but not pay for it before your cruise, you'd have it added to your on board expenses if it meant 1, 2, 3 or more extra cruise points in the loyalty club!

Having that option to earn extra points to gain a higher membership rating, and earn more cruise benefits in future cruises might change your thinking, and its nice to have that option!:D

 

Another benefit they(MSC) have that RCL doesn't, (and I wish RCL did) is at each membership level you get a larger % off your next cruise purchase price!

An example of this is after 100 cruise points, you are a Black Card member, which gives you 20% off any future cruise purchases(remember those cruise coupons that C&A recently did away with that benefited higher club members!:mad:)!

And that 20% off MSC gives is combinable with any sale/promotion they have going!

Now that's taking care of loyal members!:eek:

 

My point is not to put down RCL, but to show that others have a very competitive product today that wasn't there just 5 years ago, and its only going to get more competitive in the next 5 years!:D

 

Just so YOU are clear, if you book an excursion before your cruise sails, YOU PAY for it before the cruise sales. You cannot pay for it after you are onboard.....so therefore it would not accrue value towards that spending amount.

[papcx]

Just so YOU are clear, if you book an excursion before your cruise sails, YOU PAY for it before the cruise sales. You cannot pay for it after you are onboard.....so therefore it would not accrue value towards that spending amount.

 

 

That's not right. On MSC you can pre-book excursions (and drinks packages, spa packages etc) before you cruise and pay for them on your onboard account so the cost counts towards the loyalty scheme.

 

MSC's biggest issue is the pre and post cruise customer service. It's shocking, truly, truly shocking, and one of the reasons I looked elsewhere.

[Paulette3028]

That's not right. On MSC you can pre-book excursions (and drinks packages, spa packages etc) before you cruise and pay for them on your onboard account so the cost counts towards the loyalty scheme.

 

MSC's biggest issue is the pre and post cruise customer service. It's shocking, truly, truly shocking, and one of the reasons I looked elsewhere.

 

I wasn't referring to MSC, I was referring to Royal and by the way, I like it that way.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Paulette3028

[iuki]

It is understandable, but it will dramatically cut down on passengers in Florida/NYC/Baltimore etc and surrounding states that can drive in a reasonable amount of time to get away at the last minute.

 

Additionally, if there will not be cost savings why book so early?

 

Excellent point. Why book early?

[papcx]

I wasn't referring to MSC, I was referring to Royal and by the way, I like it that way.

 

 

Sorry, I've got my lines crossed.

[ORB]

To be honest, I'm not exactly certain what direction RCL is taking! As a stockholder, though, I'm happy with the way my investment has been going. I've been on the Allure, and loved it, but I'm glad to see that RCL isn't putting all of its energies into larger and larger ships--Quantum is a step down in size, and that will allow a greater number of possible ports than the Oasis class has been able to visit. One of my biggest gripes about Royal has been that their itineraries are nowhere near as developed or interesting as some of the other lines.

 

We just got back from a cruise on the Explorer of the Seas. I suppose you could call the Voyager class vessels mid-range and middle-aged. It needs its upcoming dry dock--if you looked with a critical eye you could see the wear around the edges. The high-traffic areas on the carpets aren't as plush--that sort of thing. The ship was very clean, though, and with a glass of wine and a little mood lighting that sort of thing just disappears.

 

There were a few organizational glitches--the Windjammer didn't always seem able to handle the crowd very well. I've come to expect that on embarkation, but when it happens during a port day my eyebrows go up a little. I don't think the lunch and breakfast service in the dining room is as attentive as it should be, though our waiters were always busy. I think they've probably just trimmed the staff levels a little too low for those meals.

 

On the other hand, we had "My time" dining and apart from Embarkation Day, when we waited about 12 minutes, we never had to wait--and we never made reservations. It worked much better than when we had the comparable program at Carnival or NCL. We sat wherever they put us and had a variety of waiters. They were all uniformly courteous and attentive. Some old favorites were missing from the menus, but unlike the last time we sailed with Royal there were no menus where we couldn't find something we would enjoy eating. The wine list seems a little better than it did when I first sailed Royal as well.

 

I've tried various ships on other lines. I'm not sure Royal is really my "absolute favorite" anymore, but at worst it is a very close second. To me, there is nothing as relaxing as sitting on deck in a quiet, cool spot looking out at the ocean. That's always going to make me happy to be on a cruise ship, no matter who has put their company logo on it.

[American Bear]

In the interest of accuracy, you might want to go back and do more research. NCL is a publicly traded company. MSC has two ships on order with an option for a third, NCL has two ships on order, and Carnival has one. None even come close to the size of Oasis Class ships. Furthermore, Carnival's loyalty program has no advantages over any other lines.

 

 

 

 

Private investment firm Apollo Management LP owns 50% of NCL (which is more accurate), so there is basically one owner at NCL and MSC, which was my poorly worded comment's intent!

 

Yes we had a cruise on both Oasis and Allure, and they're not for us! Limited ports, too many people, etc.! Liked the Freedom more, Radiance class the best!

So bigger for us is not always better!

 

Actually you might also check your info on future orders, and current construction!

My point was, the competition in the large ship category is increasing,,,

MSC's current 4 Fantasia class ships are 139,000 tons! 4 contracts were announced, 2 new MSC ships will be 154,000 tons, then the next 2 ships will be 167,000 tons!

 

NCL's current 2 Breakaway class ships are 146,000 tons with a new one due in 2015, and their new multi ship Breakaway 'plus' class will be 163,000 tons starting in a couple years! The ugly Epic is 153,000 tons!

 

Carnival current 3 Dream class ships are 130,000 tons and their new Vista class will be 135,000 tons!

Princess will add a new class at 143,000 tons starting in 2 years!

 

They all offer unique, and interesting cruises, and are large ships, most likely too large!:eek:

It seemed only a few years ago, that RCL's Voyager class, then a couple years later the Freedom class was 'it', in large ship cruising!

That's not true anymore!

 

All loyalty programs need help!

[American Bear]

Just so YOU are clear, if you book an excursion before your cruise sails, YOU PAY for it before the cruise sales. You cannot pay for it after you are onboard.....so therefore it would not accrue value towards that spending amount.

 

You can 'book' your excursion before your cruise, 'pay' for it with your on board spending account which is totaled up at the end of your cruise, and the money spent in your on board spending goes towards cruise points in their loyalty club! And that includes gratuities, drink pkges., purchases on board, anything you pay with on board spending!

Its a really good way to build up cruise points in their club! Wish C&A did it that way!:)

[seaofwonder]

Paulette - I hated my ncl cruise. It was my first cruise and I didn't know what to expect. So I really have no memory aside from being bored out of my mind and wishing I was a drunk (since that seemed to be all there was to do). Now that DH and I know what cruising is like, we come prepared with tons of books and movies and just veg.

 

So my comparison will simply be between two experiences on the lines. However, it isn't exactly a fair comparison since I am diamond on Royal and have some extra perks.

 

I think we're probably just looking for excuses to boycott cruises and focus exclusively on land travel. But I've been complaining about royal's itineraries for ages. They are out to attract new cruisers....so nothing will change. Same, boring Caribbean islands over and over. The European itineraries are enticing....but I love europe and really want more intensive, intimate land vacations. Asia is an option....but I'm hesitant to cruise in Asia. Again, we want to spend more time in locations.

 

Meh....who knows. I'll take some time away and reassess. I have a ncc that has a dummy booking for 2016 (last possible cruise I could book)....so I imagine we'll be back on a royal ship in a year or so.

 

I'm really looking forward to trying other lines :)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[3dog]

Yes we had a cruise on both Oasis and Allure, and they're not for us! Limited ports, too many people, etc.! Liked the Freedom more, Radiance class the best!

So bigger for us is not always better!

 

Actually you might also check your info on future orders, and current construction!

My point was, the competition in the large ship category is increasing,,,

MSC's current 4 Fantasia class ships are 139,000 tons! 4 contracts were announced, 2 new MSC ships will be 154,000 tons, then the next 2 ships will be 167,000 tons!

 

NCL's current 2 Breakaway class ships are 146,000 tons with a new one due in 2015, and their new multi ship Breakaway 'plus' class will be 163,000 tons starting in a couple years! The ugly Epic is 153,000 tons!

 

Carnival current 3 Dream class ships are 130,000 tons and their new Vista class will be 135,000 tons!

Princess will add a new class at 143,000 tons starting in 2 years!

 

They all offer unique, and interesting cruises, and are large ships, most likely too large!:eek:

 

It is interesting that Oasis/Allure have "too many people", yet the implication is these others will not.

 

MSC Divina at 139,400 GT, has 1,739 cabins; 101 more than Navigator at 139,570 GT. Not only would this be 202+ more pax, it is 15,000sqft+ that will be used for cabins and not public space. And Carnival Dream, nearly 10,000GT smaller than Navigator and Divina, has 84 more than Divina.

 

I know that some folks talk about the number of pax per GT (or GT per pax), but it is the cabins that take up potentially valuable public space (150 to 200 sqft for typical cabins, 500sqft or more for suites). So how cabin crowded are these ships (cabins per 1000GT - smaller being less crowded - but doubling the number also indicates how many double-occupancy passengers there are per 1kGT, ships sailing with many 3rd/4th pax will be even more crowded):

 

Royal Caribbean

Oasis 12.01

Quantum 12.39

Freedom 11.76

Navigator 11.73

 

NCL

Epic 13.56

Breakaway 13.60

Getaway 13.82

Escape 12.88 (Breakaway-Plus)

 

MSC

Divina 12.47

MSC 167,600 13.43

 

Princess

Royal Princess 12.47

Ruby Princess 13.56

 

Carnival

Carnival Dream 14.02

Carnival Splendor 13.26

Carnival Vista 14.81 (the 135,000GT ship due in 2016)

 

 

If anything, it should give some insight as to some reasons why some cruise lines may be cheaper than others.

 

And for completeness, the least cabin dense ship: QM2, at 148,528 GT, has only 1,296 cabins at 8.72/1000GT (though, in similar fairness, her cabins are significantly larger than on other ships).

[American Bear]

It is interesting that Oasis/Allure have "too many people", yet the implication is these others will not.

 

MSC Divina at 139,400 GT, has 1,739 cabins; 101 more than Navigator at 139,570 GT. Not only would this be 202+ more pax, it is 15,000sqft+ that will be used for cabins and not public space. And Carnival Dream, nearly 10,000GT smaller than Navigator and Divina, has 84 more than Divina.

 

I know that some folks talk about the number of pax per GT (or GT per pax), but it is the cabins that take up potentially valuable public space (150 to 200 sqft for typical cabins, 500sqft or more for suites). So how cabin crowded are these ships (cabins per 1000GT - smaller being less crowded - but doubling the number also indicates how many double-occupancy passengers there are per 1kGT, ships sailing with many 3rd/4th pax will be even more crowded):

 

Royal Caribbean

Oasis 12.01

Quantum 12.39

Freedom 11.76

Navigator 11.73

 

NCL

Epic 13.56

Breakaway 13.60

Getaway 13.82

Escape 12.88 (Breakaway-Plus)

 

MSC

Divina 12.47

MSC 167,600 13.43

 

Princess

Royal Princess 12.47

Ruby Princess 13.56

 

Carnival

Carnival Dream 14.02

Carnival Splendor 13.26

Carnival Vista 14.81 (the 135,000GT ship due in 2016)

 

 

If anything, it should give some insight as to some reasons why some cruise lines may be cheaper than others.

 

And for completeness, the least cabin dense ship: QM2, at 148,528 GT, has only 1,296 cabins at 8.72/1000GT (though, in similar fairness, her cabins are significantly larger than on other ships).

 

 

My point was about how just a few years ago, RCL had 'all' the large cruise ship business, but that's not true anymore!

About space, we like the smaller Radience class on RCL far more then the larger classes, and we like each larger class a little less as you go up, so we like the Oasis class the least! A lot of the space on Oasis class is wasted for us, and most of the additional venues added we could care less about! And because of the size of the Oasis class, the lack of a variety of ports gets old very fast!

Your comment about space comparison between the Divina and the Navigator are true, but you ignore the Divina is 3 years newer, a far more beautiful ship then the large RCL ships, and about half the price to sail on!

And that's why even with our D+ benes. we chose a 2 week cruise on the Divina in May instead of an RCL ship!

[American Bear]

To be honest, I'm not exactly certain what direction RCL is taking! As a stockholder, though, I'm happy with the way my investment has been going. I've been on the Allure, and loved it, but I'm glad to see that RCL isn't putting all of its energies into larger and larger ships--Quantum is a step down in size, and that will allow a greater number of possible ports than the Oasis class has been able to visit. One of my biggest gripes about Royal has been that their itineraries are nowhere near as developed or interesting as some of the other lines.

 

We just got back from a cruise on the Explorer of the Seas. I suppose you could call the Voyager class vessels mid-range and middle-aged. It needs its upcoming dry dock--if you looked with a critical eye you could see the wear around the edges. The high-traffic areas on the carpets aren't as plush--that sort of thing. The ship was very clean, though, and with a glass of wine and a little mood lighting that sort of thing just disappears.

 

There were a few organizational glitches--the Windjammer didn't always seem able to handle the crowd very well. I've come to expect that on embarkation, but when it happens during a port day my eyebrows go up a little. I don't think the lunch and breakfast service in the dining room is as attentive as it should be, though our waiters were always busy. I think they've probably just trimmed the staff levels a little too low for those meals.

 

On the other hand, we had "My time" dining and apart from Embarkation Day, when we waited about 12 minutes, we never had to wait--and we never made reservations. It worked much better than when we had the comparable program at Carnival or NCL. We sat wherever they put us and had a variety of waiters. They were all uniformly courteous and attentive. Some old favorites were missing from the menus, but unlike the last time we sailed with Royal there were no menus where we couldn't find something we would enjoy eating. The wine list seems a little better than it did when I first sailed Royal as well.

 

I've tried various ships on other lines. I'm not sure Royal is really my "absolute favorite" anymore, but at worst it is a very close second. To me, there is nothing as relaxing as sitting on deck in a quiet, cool spot looking out at the ocean. That's always going to make me happy to be on a cruise ship, no matter who has put their company logo on it.

 

 

Agree as a fellow stockholder the recent gains are welcome! But the cuts in service, and quality are noticeable!

Disagree, don't like the Oasis class, too big, to many people, not enough variety of ports! Like the idea of going to smaller(168,000 tons:eek:) ships!

About RCL food,,, MDR equal to the other cruise lines, buffet is mediocre, needs improvement, and the hours of the buffet should be expanded, 6am - 12 midnight, we're sick of those lousy promenade sandwiches, and crummy frozen pizza which is about all you got after 9 pm for free! And get rid of Indian food on the buffet unless your cruising over there! Never understoof Indian food on a Caribbean cruise!:eek:

The specialty rests. on RCL are good, better then most other cruise lines!

We'd be happy to wait 10-15 mins. to eat when we want, and to eat at a table size we want, not with a table of strangers! So we think the switch away from traditional dining is a good thing!

[Big_G]

 

Private investment firm Apollo Management LP owns 50% of NCL (which is more accurate), so there is basically one owner at NCL and MSC, which was my poorly worded comment's intent!

 

 

Wrong again my friend. Apollo only owns a 20% stake in NCLH. As for MSC, just because it's a privately held company doesn't mean that it doesn't have shareholders. It just means shares aren't publicly traded.