Is RCL heading in the Wrong Direction... ?

[silvermcs]

I spend more time on CC when I have an up coming cruise. Have been reading all of the posts in anticipation of our Thanksgiving cruise. We have to cruise based on a school calendar so usually cruise at Thanksgiving and spring break. Probably the two busiest and most expensive times to travel; and add in the airfare.:eek:

There seems to be more negative posts this time (even more than usual). Each time I tell DW that I am concerned that quality and service appear to be dropping. We work hard to have this time off as a family and it creates experiences and memories we will have forever. I tell the family to lower the expectations and be prepared for a lesser experience. But I have to say that each cruise is as good or better than the last. The service is excellent and the food is really good. We do mostly MDR late seating (never MTD) with a couple of specialty nights in the mix depending on the MDR menu.

People generally do not like change. I deal with this at work everyday. As for changes to cruising, it is not like my first cruise in 1979 or the one in 1994. It is different but exciting. I am excepting of the changes and look forward to trying new things. RCCL does a really good job at keeping the base prices low. So spending a little extra money on a spa treatment, specialty restaurant or flow ridder lesson allows for base pricing plus a little extra for a few of the nicer things. The other option would be a finer line at 3X the price; RCCL seems like the much better deal even after the extras. As the new dining concept launches, I will look forward to trying them. Who better to design something new than RCCL. The innovation is impressive and something to look forward to trying. I'll keep an open mind and continue to vote with my wallet. After this Thanksgiving cruise we will be D+. Something else to look forward to for the next cruise.;)

Keeping an open mind...

[Swath]

The Reason The C & A Metric was Changed off the TOP of my head was that someone who lived near Near a Port and took 11- (3 Night Cruises) 33 Nights Would NOT reach Diamond Faster than Someone who took 5 -(7 Night Cruises) 35 Nights, Also in the Past there have Been Crowding Issues with the DL from reading posts from others on this site.

[Paulette3028]

The Reason The C & A Metric was Changed off the TOP of my head was that someone who lived near Near a Port and took 11- (3 Night Cruises) 33 Nights Would NOT reach Diamond Faster than Someone who took 5 -(7 Night Cruises) 35 Nights, Also in the Past there have Been Crowding Issues with the DL from reading posts from others on this site.

 

I don't believe crowding was a major factor in revamping the point system for C&A. I just believe they realized it was more equitable to base it on nights on board a ship vs anything else. They still reward double points for those staying in suites which is also fair because of the increased pricing for those accommodations.

 

We were not hurt when they converted from the old system to the new one. When we had completed our 10th cruise which would have given us Diamond status, under the new system which was just being rolled out, we were short a point -- but were still granted Diamond Status.

 

Now we are cruising along to D+.

[seaofwonder]

It is interesting that you bring up cost now, and not prior. Disposal vacation dollars do have to be spent wisely, which is why I would have to believe you would carefully choose an itinerary that would make the experience worth the dollars spent.

 

 

It is the reason we chose NcL this upcoming summer. Cheaper than anything comparable on Royal and a better itinerary.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[American Bear]

And Apple will not be able to come out with a new higher priced iPhone and have people lined up for hours to buy it on day one...oh wait...

 

because there are cheaper smartphones out there that are flooding the market which will force Apple to lower prices ... oh wait ...

 

:)

 

And what happens with time, the price comes down!

IPhone 5 sold for, and sells for what now?

The Oasis and Allure sold for what, and sell for what now?

And when the ship isn't full, the sale will happen to fill the ship!

And what will the prices on Quantum be in a year or 2?

What RCL said about last minute deals was garbage!:eek:

The competition has taken notice, and there are other choices now that weren't there just 5 years ago to cruise a large ship with all kinds of extras on other cruise lines!

And if you look at the ship orders of other cruise lines the competition in the large ship area will become even more crowded in the next 3-5 years!

[Paulette3028]

It is the reason we chose NcL this upcoming summer. Cheaper than anything comparable on Royal and a better itinerary.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Since you were on NCL Jewel in 2009 I see from the list of past cruises in your signature....I wonder what differences you will find disappointing on NCL from then to now. I am sure things have changed on NCL as well. They have faced the same challenges and probably had to take similar steps as far as on board staff size that Royal did.

[American Bear]

I don't believe crowding was a major factor in revamping the point system for C&A. I just believe they realized it was more equitable to base it on nights on board a ship vs anything else. They still reward double points for those staying in suites which is also fair because of the increased pricing for those accommodations.

 

We were not hurt when they converted from the old system to the new one. When we had completed our 10th cruise which would have given us Diamond status, under the new system which was just being rolled out, we were short a point -- but were still granted Diamond Status.

 

Now we are cruising along to D+.

 

 

 

We are also D+, used to take 5-6 cruises a year on RCL, not anymore!

Reduced benefits, and more competition!

There has been a significant reduction in benes. from the C&A, and the Casino Club in recent years!

 

Comparing RCL's loyalty program to other cruise lines is a mixed bag!

Yes you are right, if you buy the more expensive cabins you get extra points!

But how about MSC's giving you an extra cruise point for every $200. you spend onboard including gratuities, drink pkges., excursions, etc.! Loyalty club dvancement on MSC is much easier the RCL's!

NCL's, and Carnival's loyalty programs also have some advantages, and disadvantages when compared to RCL's C&A!

 

We took a late anniversary cruise this year in May because of a family members health problems!

We compared Freedom Class/Oasis Class balconies with our D+ benes. vs other cruise lines balconies and our benes. from their loyalty clubs, and the best deal we got was a 2 week back to back cruise (one week in the eastern Caribbean, one week in the western Caribbean) on the MSC Divina!

We had a great time, the ship was beautiful, the shows/entertainment were great, the drink pkges. are the best at sea, and we saved several thousand dollars over an RCL cruise!

 

As a RCL stockholder this got me thinking, so I researched new ship orders, and found MSC has 5 more new concept large ships ordered, NCL has several new large ship orders, Carnival has new large ship orders, etc.!

So there will be a lot of new large ships coming in the next 5 years, so pricing to customer service to building a strong loyal customer, and maintaining it, will become even more important, and you don't get there by cutting back on benes. like RCL has done, or stop offering last minute deals as RCL suggested they will do!:eek:

[American Bear]

Since you were on NCL Jewel in 2009 I see from the list of past cruises in your signature....I wonder what differences you will find disappointing on NCL from then to now. I am sure things have changed on NCL as well. They have faced the same challenges and probably had to take similar steps as far as on board staff size that Royal did.

 

 

NCL and MSC have an advatage over RCL, they are private companies with one boss, not publicly owned with stockholders!

Both of their owners are very interested in growing their companies quickly even at the cost of some profits!

[American Bear]

It is the reason we chose NcL this upcoming summer. Cheaper than anything comparable on Royal and a better itinerary.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Exactly the same reason we chose the MSC Divina this past May!

We got a balcony for 2 weeks on Divina (a beautiful new large ship) for 'less' then an ocean view on any Freedom/Oasis class cruise!

And the NCL Getaway later in the Summer!

Edited November 3, 2014 by American Bear

[Cruzaholic41]

As a RCL stockholder this got me thinking, so I researched new ship orders, and found MSC has 5 more new concept large ships ordered, NCL has several new large ship orders, Carnival has new large ship orders, etc.!

So there will be a lot of new large ships coming in the next 5 years, so pricing to customer service to building a strong loyal customer, and maintaining it, will become even more important, and you don't get there by cutting back on benes. like RCL has done, or stop offering last minute deals as RCL suggested they will do!:eek:

 

Not everyone cruises for loyalty benefits. Some of us still prefer certain cruise lines because we like their product.

[Paulette3028]

We are also D+, used to take 5-6 cruises a year on RCL, not anymore!

Reduced benefits, and more competition!

There has been a significant reduction in benes. from the C&A, and the Casino Club in recent years!

 

Comparing RCL's loyalty program to other cruise lines is a mixed bag!

Yes you are right, if you buy the more expensive cabins you get extra points!

But how about MSC's giving you an extra cruise point for every $200. you spend onboard including gratuities, drink pkges., excursions, etc.! Loyalty club dvancement on MSC is much easier the RCL's!

NCL's, and Carnival's loyalty programs also have some advantages, and disadvantages when compared to RCL's C&A!

 

We took a late anniversary cruise this year in May because of a family members health problems!

We compared Freedom Class/Oasis Class balconies with our D+ benes. vs other cruise lines balconies and our benes. from their loyalty clubs, and the best deal we got was a 2 week back to back cruise (one week in the eastern Caribbean, one week in the western Caribbean) on the MSC Divina!

We had a great time, the ship was beautiful, the shows/entertainment were great, the drink pkges. are the best at sea, and we saved several thousand dollars over an RCL cruise!

 

As a RCL stockholder this got me thinking, so I researched new ship orders, and found MSC has 5 more new concept large ships ordered, NCL has several new large ship orders, Carnival has new large ship orders, etc.!

So there will be a lot of new large ships coming in the next 5 years, so pricing to customer service to building a strong loyal customer, and maintaining it, will become even more important, and you don't get there by cutting back on benes. like RCL has done, or stop offering last minute deals as RCL suggested they will do!:eek:

 

Making a financial decision to go on another cruise line was good for you. The Casino Club means nothing to me, we are not gamblers in any way....a few bucks doesn't make or break a decision for us. I would not benefit from a reward for spending on board, because our excursions are the most additional expense we have and those are booked before we cruise, never when on board. Getting a point for the tips charged would add up, but very little -- We don't have the luxury of very long cruises where tips would reach the $200 threshold; and we are not big drinkers -- so our bar bill is very small.

 

Have C&A benefits changed, yes....and they will continue to change, just like they will on other lines. I dislike that Royal stopped combining benefits...and if the product I am getting isn't worth it, then I will do as you have done....try another line.

[grand isle joe]

I'm curious as to what perks you lost and what perks are now being offered to people who have barely cruised.

 

 

 

I guess all those ultra- ultra ultra top DIAMONDS (they are truly blue blood royalty and RCL would be bankrupt without them) miss the rickshaw rides to and from the ship as well as the butler bum wipers available 24 hours........:rolleyes:

[Paulette3028]

NCL and MSC have an advatage over RCL, they are private companies with one boss, not publicly owned with stockholders!

Both of their owners are very interested in growing their companies quickly even at the cost of some profits!

 

Whether NCL and MSC have one boss (as a private company) vs the stockholder model of Royal, would change the fact that you will probably see changes in the cruise you will be taking on NCL and the one you took in 2009. Even a single owner model company, makes business decisions that affect the bottom line and personnel is the largest expense in most companies (NCL is no different).

 

So let you memory be at work....because I am sure there are changes that will have affected customer service (ratio of cabin attendants to cabins; ratio of wait staff to tables -- has probably changed). Will you be honest in reporting what your comparison will be or will you memory deceive you?????

[American Bear]

Not everyone cruises for loyalty benefits. Some of us still prefer certain cruise lines because we like their product.

 

That's true, some people only drink Coke, never had a Pepsi to know the difference!

RCL had the large cruise ship concept all to themselves with the Freedom class and Oasis class!

That is not true anymore! The competition in the large sized ship is growing every year, and many loyal cruisers, even yourself may see a cruise priced at a rate you have to buy! That's what happened to us!

We can tell you from our experience that our preferences in what was most important to us in a cruise has changed in over 20 years of cruising!

[Paulette3028]

We can tell you from our experience that our preferences in what was most important to us in a cruise has changed in over 20 years of cruising!

 

So what is most important to you now?

[American Bear]

Making a financial decision to go on another cruise line was good for you. The Casino Club means nothing to me, we are not gamblers in any way....a few bucks doesn't make or break a decision for us. I would not benefit from a reward for spending on board, because our excursions are the most additional expense we have and those are booked before we cruise, never when on board. Getting a point for the tips charged would add up, but very little -- We don't have the luxury of very long cruises where tips would reach the $200 threshold; and we are not big drinkers -- so our bar bill is very small.

 

Have C&A benefits changed, yes....and they will continue to change, just like they will on other lines. I dislike that Royal stopped combining benefits...and if the product I am getting isn't worth it, then I will do as you have done....try another line.

 

 

But maybe you would book your excursion before your cruise, but not pay for it before your cruise, you'd have it added to your on board expenses if it meant 1, 2, 3 or more extra cruise points in the loyalty club!

Having that option to earn extra points to gain a higher membership rating, and earn more cruise benefits in future cruises might change your thinking, and its nice to have that option!:D

 

Another benefit they(MSC) have that RCL doesn't, (and I wish RCL did) is at each membership level you get a larger % off your next cruise purchase price!

An example of this is after 100 cruise points, you are a Black Card member, which gives you 20% off any future cruise purchases(remember those cruise coupons that C&A recently did away with that benefited higher club members!:mad:)!

And that 20% off MSC gives is combinable with any sale/promotion they have going!

Now that's taking care of loyal members!:eek:

 

My point is not to put down RCL, but to show that others have a very competitive product today that wasn't there just 5 years ago, and its only going to get more competitive in the next 5 years!:D

[grandmarnnurse]

I guess all those ultra- ultra ultra top DIAMONDS (they are truly blue blood royalty and RCL would be bankrupt without them) miss the rickshaw rides to and from the ship as well as the butler bum wipers available 24 hours........:rolleyes:

 

LOL!! Too funny! I cruise because I love to cruise! And I'm sure I will never get those perks because we sail only about once a year, if lucky. Perhaps someday when I retire (which may never come!! ARGGGG!!) and we can move south nearer to the ports, we will be able to. I have to laugh about all these complaints about their perks dwindling. In case you haven't noticed, there aren't too many perks left ANYWHERE in this new world economy!! I haven't had a raise in 6 years and my employer hasn't even matched my 401K in 3 years! Throw in worse and worse health insurance policies (thank you Obama care!) and I will be lucky if I can retire before 70!! And way too old to change employers now! LOL!! (really not funny) But sorry you no longer get chocolates on your pillow.

[Aquahound]

We can tell you from our experience that our preferences in what was most important to us in a cruise has changed in over 20 years of cruising!

 

So have mine....which caused me several years ago to branch out from NCL. In the past couple years, I've cruised with 5 different companies, yet I keep coming back to RCI as my go-to cruise line. One thing I've learned about RCI is, when they make a change, they tend to get it right.

 

There was soooo much pessimism over the last few RCI ship classes, especially Oasis Class, yet they turned out to be huge hits. They managed to put 6000 people on a ship and somehow managed to keep it from being crowded. The same seems to be happening with Quantum as well. I'll admit....I had my reservations. But now that I'm seeing the ship, I'm back to the opinion RCI knows what they're doing.

 

It seems to me a lot of the complaining I'm seeing on these boards are right in line with a point you made, whether intentional or not. Some people just don't like change.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Aquahound

[NemoCrownie]

Whether NCL and MSC have one boss (as a private company) vs the stockholder model of Royal, would change the fact that you will probably see changes in the cruise you will be taking on NCL and the one you took in 2009. Even a single owner model company, makes business decisions that affect the bottom line and personnel is the largest expense in most companies (NCL is no different).

 

A publicly held company has many masters who collectively have one over-riding interest, profit. Shareholders only care about what they are getting now. Privately held companies tend to operate on a longer timeline with the overriding goal being long-term viability. A privately held company must be profitable to stay in business but they don't have to answer to anyone and explain their decisions at annual stockholder meetings. Of particular note is that Officers of publicly held businesses usually have compensation packages worth many times more than those working for a privately held company and a large part of their compensation is based on how profitable their company is this year (stock incentives).

 

One only has to look at Wal-Mart and how they changed once they were publicly traded - off-shoring their manufacturing to get the very cheapest product, declining pay and benefits to enhance the bottom line, etc. I could site many more examples but that is one that most understand and have seen first hand. There are many pieces to this puzzle but this isn't the forum for that discussion.

 

I digressed from the topic at hand but I do believe that RCCL is positioning itself differently now that it is only one piece under the RCI umbrella of companies. The perceived value and what one is willing to pay for the experience is entirely up to the customer. In the past we have liked the RCI experience and the vacation value but it is alright to acknowledge that many will look for something different as their life style or circumstances change and as the product changes to appeal to a different market demographic.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk

Edited November 3, 2014 by NemoCrownie

[CRUISEFAN0001]

It seems to me a lot of the complaining I'm seeing on these boards are right in line with a point you made, whether intentional or not. Some people just don't like change.

Change for the sake of change is only change.

 

Change for improvement is another thing.

 

Change that results in a lesser cruise experience is yet another thing.

 

There have been a number of posts with legitimate facts pointing to a deterioration of the cruise experience on at least some RCI ships. Furthermore, with rising costs and reduced services...that means less bang for the buck.

 

We have enjoyed all our cruises to date on RCI, and have one booked for next year. We don't actively seek other cruise lines. Nonetheless, there is a trend underway which few can deny...and it could result in loyalties changing.

[NemoCrownie]

Deleted

Edited November 3, 2014 by NemoCrownie

[Big_G]

As a RCL stockholder this got me thinking, so I researched new ship orders, and found MSC has 5 more new concept large ships ordered, NCL has several new large ship orders, Carnival has new large ship orders, etc.!

 

eek:

 

 

In the interest of accuracy, you might want to go back and do more research. NCL is a publicly traded company. MSC has two ships on order with an option for a third, NCL has two ships on order, and Carnival has one. None even come close to the size of Oasis Class ships. Furthermore, Carnival's loyalty program has no advantages over any other lines.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bigque]

Not everyone cruises for loyalty benefits. Some of us still prefer certain cruise lines because we like their product.

 

LIKE!

We have been cruising since 2008 and we are still Gold. The reason is that we really don't care when we get to the next level. As much as we like to cruise there are still other vacations that we like to take other than cruising and we do so, thus the reason why we don't have enough cruises under our belt to have moved on from Gold yet. Next year will be the 1st time we will have taken more than one cruise in a year and will move to the next level in Oct 2015 after 7 years of cruising. I really can't speak on how things were before 2008 or how grand they use to be or how much better the food was or what you didn't have to pay for that you have to pay for now. I just know since 2008 every time we have cruised it has been great for us and a good price for us. Has the food always been outstanding...No but it never been unedible neither. We also don't have to sail on the biggest and newest and shiniest ships, so we book the ones where the price is reasonable for us for the type of cabin we want which is why we have not sailed on Oasis or Allure yet. We will sail on them one day I'm sure, but until the cabin we like is in our price range, we will continue to look at the ships that meet our price.

As you said we like the product and there has been nothing yet to make us want to go elsewhere! :cool:

[Cruzaholic41]

That's true, some people only drink Coke, never had a Pepsi to know the difference!

RCL had the large cruise ship concept all to themselves with the Freedom class and Oasis class!

That is not true anymore! The competition in the large sized ship is growing every year, and many loyal cruisers, even yourself may see a cruise priced at a rate you have to buy! That's what happened to us!

We can tell you from our experience that our preferences in what was most important to us in a cruise has changed in over 20 years of cruising!

 

A large ship is just a large ship. What makes it appealing to me is what is on that large ship. I've been on the largest ships of every major cruise line and I have yet to find anything that is in the same ballpark as Oasis.

 

That's just my opinion but still, it shows the loyalty program has nothign to do with my ship preferences.

[slk230red]

Not everyone cruises for loyalty benefits. Some of us still prefer certain cruise lines because we like their product.

 

 

LIKE!

 

We have been cruising since 2008 and we are still Gold. The reason is that we really don't care when we get to the next level. As much as we like to cruise there are still other vacations that we like to take other than cruising and we do so, thus the reason why we don't have enough cruises under our belt to have moved on from Gold yet. Next year will be the 1st time we will have taken more than one cruise in a year and will move to the next level in Oct 2015 after 7 years of cruising. I really can't speak on how things were before 2008 or how grand they use to be or how much better the food was or what you didn't have to pay for that you have to pay for now. I just know since 2008 every time we have cruised it has been great for us and a good price for us. Has the food always been outstanding...No but it never been unedible neither. We also don't have to sail on the biggest and newest and shiniest ships, so we book the ones where the price is reasonable for us for the type of cabin we want which is why we have not sailed on Oasis or Allure yet. We will sail on them one day I'm sure, but until the cabin we like is in our price range, we will continue to look at the ships that meet our price.

 

As you said we like the product and there has been nothing yet to make us want to go elsewhere! :cool:

 

A large ship is just a large ship. What makes it appealing to me is what is on that large ship. I've been on the largest ships of every major cruise line and I have yet to find anything that is in the same ballpark as Oasis.

 

That's just my opinion but still, it shows the loyalty program has nothing to do with my ship preferences.

 

Agree....glad I'm not alone.

 

700+ nights on RCI = Pinnacle

700+ nights on various cruise lines, Priceless!