Is RCL heading in the Wrong Direction... ?

[njm5378]

In response to the OPs title - is RCL heading in the wrong dircetion? My answer is that I don't know if it is the wrong direction but, rather, a different direction with a different target market. They are a business and in business to make as much profit as possible PERIOD.

 

From reading CC for several years, I think the Loyalists, for the most part, are loyal because they have benefitted personally from their loyalty by receiving balcony discounts, free drinks and exclusive access to prime, non-revenue generating, real estate. Me thinks that if the balcony discounts and lounge access were reduced then many of the Loyalists would scream loudly and then start looking at their vacation alternatives.

 

RCLs business model is changing, like it or not. They were a single cruise line positioned as the best of the value lines. Consolidation of the lines within the industry has changed many things and made for a more tiered industry. Like it or not RCL, in my opinion, views Carnival and NCL as their prime competitors and they are all vying for their share of that market and the innovations in the ships are all about garnering a larger percentage of that specific market.

 

The acquisitions of Celebrity and Azamara have caused RCI to seriously look at their business model and the realization that each line must be targeted to a different market with a different price point. I am probably wrong but I foresee, in the not too distant future, a large cut back in loyalty perks. RCL is expanding their market and trying to fill more berths by positioning their ships in different markets around the world. If they can figure out how to sail full then the loyalty perks will be further reduced. Believe me, the bean counters have figured out that the higher end suite cruisers and the vacation cruisers spend much more onboard than the frequent cruisers, in general. How to attract and then keep each of these demographics happy is what they have to figure out. I think they are struggling with implementing their long range plans for growth. The IT is terrible, it is hard to employ, train and retain enough good people to staff the ships.... Only time will tell but anyone that thinks RCL has any loyalty to them (with a few exceptions) is delusional.

 

Wrong direction? I think they would say it is just a different direction with a lot of moving parts to figure out.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk

 

I couldn't agree more. It is a different direction and most people resist change. RCI wants loyal cruisers but in the Gold category. The discounts that they give to loyalist come straight off their bottom line. I also see a changing demographic. Cruising in the past was a vacation seen for the elite. More and more people are realizing that it is a good value on a per day cost basis. Many of the changes they are implementing are what the 1st, 2nd, 3rd time cruisers want and while many of us hate to see things like formal night go, we are in the minority on an overall annual passenger basis. I will remain loyal to Royal until it becomes my decision to leave. I think that people need to experience the changes before writing them off as bad. I like to have facts before making decisions, but what is right for me may not be right for others and I feel everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[3dog]

and additional ships means more cabins available=lower prices/more benefits!

 

 

RCL didn't run the 2nd cruiser half off because they like us, it was to sell cabins that weren't selling!:eek:

 

Though I don't actually disagree with this post, these two points are overly simplistic, and thus could be incomplete.

 

Though supply and demand does have an impact on price, so does "what the market will bear." There is a point in pricing that no matter how little supply is available, you won't get anyone to buy. At the same time, adding supply will only cause prices to drop if the demand stays the same or declines. So together, if there is already a large demand for a product that has achieved it's maximum price, the only way to benefit is to add more supply.

 

And sales are not necessarily to to solve a problem of unsold inventory (sometimes they are). But they are also used to increase cash flow at a time when flow tends to be lower or even to spur demand for products in general at a time when the demand is lower (and higher demand has a tendency to keep prices higher, even if there is a reduction in pricing/revenue during a sale).

 

Not being privy to RCI or RCCL's internal financial or marketing data, it would be hard to tell which of these, or possibly some other reason, has driven their sales or deployment forecasts.

[Paulette3028]

I couldn't agree more. It is a different direction and most people resist change. RCI wants loyal cruisers but in the Gold category. The discounts that they give to loyalist come straight off their bottom line. I also see a changing demographic. Cruising in the past was a vacation seen for the elite. More and more people are realizing that it is a good value on a per day cost basis. Many of the changes they are implementing are what the 1st, 2nd, 3rd time cruisers want and while many of us hate to see things like formal night go, we are in the minority on an overall annual passenger basis. I will remain loyal to Royal until it becomes my decision to leave. I think that people need to experience the changes before writing them off as bad. I like to have facts before making decisions, but what is right for me may not be right for others and I feel everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

Change is difficult, yet shouldn't be dismissed as bad until it is experienced. Yet some, won't wait that long, they will just flee.

 

By the way, enjoy your upcoming cruise without your children.....it will be like being newlyweds again.

[kborth]

I used to be a huge fan of Royal until prices went up and decided to try Celebrity,am very pleased with the lower price paid and the value for money , have another one booked with them. That said I absolutely loved the Radiance class and entertainment on Royal. I would like to see more ships in the smaller class and lower prices. I scored a 12 day Med cruise this summer for less than a 7 day one on Royal.just my thoughts..

[Paulette3028]

I used to be a huge fan of Royal until prices went up and decided to try Celebrity,am very pleased with the lower price paid and the value for money , have another one booked with them. That said I absolutely loved the Radiance class and entertainment on Royal. I would like to see more ships in the smaller class and lower prices. I scored a 12 day Med cruise this summer for less than a 7 day one on Royal.just my thoughts..

 

So far for DH and I we have still been able to get very good prices for the Royal cruises we have taken. Since you did cruise Celebrity....just give me a little idea of the difference in the entertainment on board as well as the difference in activities available to do on the ship.

[Big_G]

Simple mathematics answers your question!

 

If you go back and reread my question, you'll see you really didn't answer it at all. Did you quote me by mistake? Secondly, I find anyone that owns a stock and refers to the earnings call as 'mumbo jumbo' a little lacking in understanding. Then again you did say you owned it for the OBC. While you claim cruise prices have never been lower, others in this same thread are complaining they've never been higher. I'll give you the Caribbean being over saturated but it's been over saturated by Carnival and it's reflected in their pricing. I don't think it's reflected in Royal's pricing. There will always be last minute deals but according Royal their booking are up so there will be less. That would be the simple mathematics of it. By the way, my original question had nothing to do with available births and pricing but thanks for taking shot at it.

[Big_G]

So far for DH and I we have still been able to get very good prices for the Royal cruises we have taken. Since you did cruise Celebrity....just give me a little idea of the difference in the entertainment on board as well as the difference in activities available to do on the ship.

 

Except for the Oasis Class of course, Celebrities entertainment is about par with Royals. It's the rest of the on board experience that's different. It's a more mature and laid back experience. There are plenty of activities but usually you'll find me relaxing at the Sunset Bar or eating lunch outdoors at the Ocean View Cafe. On our last Celebrity cruise, we witnessed a guy in shorts and a tank top get turned away from the MDR and told to come back with slacks and sleeves. The only pool games are passenger vs. crew volley ball. We've done three S Class and one M Class. Coming from Royal, I would recommend S Class unless you prefer Royals older ships. We like to mix Celebrity in because it's a nice change of pace, ship design, and itinerary. The reciprocal loyalty benefits are also a plus.

[kborth]

So far for DH and I we have still been able to get very good prices for the Royal cruises we have taken. Since you did cruise Celebrity....just give me a little idea of the difference in the entertainment on board as well as the difference in activities available to do on the ship.

 

Well we were select members on our first Celebrty cruise and it was great. Went to Captains party and I was wowed by food,drinks and entertainment.the captain and crew were very friendly and accessible,had a great jazz group at this ,cosmos,apple martins that were out of this world. celebrity is quieter,they had a group in the atrium and there was dancing but they don't place as much emphasis on this as Royal. Our cruise was ver port intensive so we did't attend all the shows, 10 ports in 12 days, exhausting!they have wonderful areas for relaxing on Silouhette , games room, library where you can get good coffee, those a toy table raved about the entertainment and they went every night. Royal just seems to place more emphasis on music, just my opinion. We are on a TA this year and maybe we will feel differently with 7 days at sea . I think they place more emphasis on relaxation. Just a side note when we were in their solarium ,adults only,a young boy about 10 came in and dived in the water. Next thing we knew staff was telling him to get out and the parents were reprimanded, next day I saw the captain call the boy over and give him an earful, really impressed me that a senior crew member would take steps to enforce the rules. Parents were livid.

[Coralc]

I believe loyalty to ANY vacation option will depend on the disposable income that people have to use. Years ago, there was a lot more disposable income in people's hands (unless of course you were the very rich).

 

Paulette, I don't understand the comment. It's not a big deal, but I am curious about your statement. You are a teeny bit contrary, but usually raise good points. It might be valid, because a lot of our disposable income is channeled towards retirement. :)

[printingchick]

In terms of "wrong direction" - I think the move toward harmonizing the fleet to incorporate Oasis features on other ships is an example of the wrong direction. I've read these boards for years and polls asking readers to name their favorite RCL ship or class of ships pop up frequently. Despite their age, these polls almost always result in Radiance Class ships landing on top.

 

I'm totally fine with RCL's move to lure new and different passengers with the mega ships, but applying those features to the smaller ships - thus diluting the variety we have to choose from - is a mistake in my opinion. If the smaller classes of ships go away...or are changed to the point of eliminating their best features (EX: adding fee-based eateries in place of the outdoor dining experience at the Windjammer), I will, in all likelihood, change cruise lines.

 

No offense intended to those who prefer the mega-ship experience. I just prefer smaller ships where I really FEEL like I'm at SEA, rather than the floating resort experience. I also like not having to reserve shows and meals so far in advance. I do a lot of planning for my cruises in terms of excursions, pre/post-cruise accommodations, etc. Once on board, I want to RELAX. See a show tonight....or not. Dine at the MDR tonight...at 6:00 or 7:00 or 8:00, depending on that day's activities....or chill at the Windjammer.

 

If Royal tries to make all their ships the same, rather than expand their target demographic, they will be limiting it to only those looking for the big-ship experience. I'll be very sad if that happens.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

Royal, like any business, is loyal only to your money, not you.

There is truth in that statement.

 

It's important to note that we greatly enjoy Royal Caribbean cruises, their ships, their staffs, and their experiences. We consider ourselves loyal to this point. With some good "shopping", we've been able to secure good pricing and value on our cruises to date.

 

That said...it does appear that the value of loyal cruisers remaining with Royal Caribbean misaligns to a pattern of reduced value for loyalty.

 

The Crown & Anchor benefits (in particular the type and number of loyalty discounts) have seen a reduction in recent times. Onboard status appears to mean less today than it did just a few years ago. The SOuthwest airlines "you're just another passenger" feeling has been more common - just read the numerous post-cruise threads and posts on that topic. With rising prices, these trends tend to get all the more exposed.

 

While new ships and features are welcome, somebody has to pay for them. Knowing that up to 4 Quantum class ships will be deployed, as well as 2 more Oasis class ships...RCI is clearly planning to maximize revenue to pay for those billion dollar vessels over the next few years.

 

That's good business, but points to a future of diminished loyalty.

Edited November 1, 2014 by CRUISEFAN0001

[jayblue]

I will say this: RCCL's arrogance is opening doors to other cruise lines to me. I haven't cruised in 17 years and only have 3 under my belt. My reluctance at canceling my current cruise (for reasons other than their arrogance) disappeared with the press release last week.

 

I will rebook (when the time is right) my cruise, but with another cruise line. One that offers something for everyone, including solo cruisers. It is fine to target a certain demographic, but don't ignore all of the others!

[Lionesss]

Having sailed RCI 5 times in the last 7 years I have first hand experienced many changes................

 

Most are in the way of cut-backs.....Barefoot beach made a suite beach.

Chocolates gone in rooms, and of course increase in fees for services (of course this last item could just be the economy and adjusted rates).

 

I have seen some (yes some) improvements.

 

Suite beach providing lunch buffet, free snorkel and floaties (only available to those few who get suites).

 

It seems the system does benefit those who pay more for their cabin.

 

Money is the strong motivational factor for any business to stay afloat.....

 

Will it take the competition to provide a better product at a more reasonable offering for RCI to change their ways??? Hmmm

 

We still sail RCI, even with the changes we enjoy the product.

 

But, we keep our eyes open to see what is out there,

 

Sea Ya

[jayblue]

I will rebook (when the time is right) my cruise, but with another cruise line. One that offers something for everyone, including solo cruisers. It is fine to target a certain demographic, but don't ignore all of the others!

 

I might add that I will not totally exclude RCCL when considering my future cruises, but they've opened the door to my curiosity about what other lines, like Princess, are offering.

 

It is fine and dandy to be the most innovative line in the business, but when you repeatedly anger your repeat customers, there is something wrong with the way you are headed.

[jewopaho]

I think we're about done here ... we seem to be headed back to square one (not a bad thing in the world of forums), but it does seem as if we've come full circle. There have been many thoughtful comments expressed here ... overall a great thread. Thanks to the OP for posting, and to all who contributed ... interesting reading.

 

Al

[west2000]

In all fairness, that's what a for-profit company should do.

 

Only works while you have customers! Upset enough and you have a problem. As UK cruisers who have enjoyed Royal Caribbeans product we are not interested in all inclusive cruising which seems to be there way forward in Europe. The result is that we are sailing with other lines we also enjoy but for whom all inclusive is an optional extra payment and not part of the basic price. All inclusive is popular for new cruisers in the UK but less so with more regular cruisers it is a gamble they take as cruise prices ex UK are generally higher than from the USA and many passengers do not cruise regularly as a result.

[Paulette3028]

I also have to think that this announcement of no more lower prices to fill ships is just an empty "threat". The very last line in that article sums it up: Not many analysis/insiders believe it will actually pan out this way. If they keep prices in the higher range - they simply won't fill the ships.

 

If this statement by Royal gets a few people booking earlier, then the strategy has worked.

 

I am a little intrigued by his comment that the lower prices are bothersome to those who booked early. The way I look at things is that I book a cruise at a price I am willing to pay. If the price drops before final payment - I see that as a bonus! I do not count on it. Now, if the price drops after final payment, I see if I can grab an upgrade. If not.. I am still excited to be going on vacation, paying a price I was comfortable with back when I booked it.

 

In my opinion, if we worry too much about someone else getting a better deal, or having more, or being better off than then we are - will have an unfufilled life. The only time I should be worried about what's on my neighbour's plate is when he doesn't have enough, and I can help him out.

 

This proposed plan has no implementation timeline....it is a talking point for right now with no implementation strategy......we will see what REALITY truly is.

[Paulette3028]

I do not feel they are moving towards upscale. If they were, they would focus on quality of food and standard cabin perks. Champagne when you arrive. Having guest lecturers on every cruise. Teak decking. Adding bumper cars, a crane and a ghastly giant red bear doesn't give me the impression that they are trying to be more upscale.

 

I don't believe Royal is going towards a specific label such as 'upscale' but rather trying to find something to offer that isn't quite what their competition is offering since all cruise lines are in competition for ONE thing....the people who WANT to cruise.

 

I personally resent that for something to be considered (at least the way I am reading it) upscale, it must include guest lecturers and champagne.....that doesn't to me make for an upscale experience; just adds cost and therefore something to be added to the price, that I don't want.

[grandmarnnurse]

I don't believe Royal is going towards a specific label such as 'upscale' but rather trying to find something to offer that isn't quite what their competition is offering since all cruise lines are in competition for ONE thing....the people who WANT to cruise.

 

I personally resent that for something to be considered (at least the way I am reading it) upscale, it must include guest lecturers and champagne.....that doesn't to me make for an upscale experience; just adds cost and therefore something to be added to the price, that I don't want.

 

Paulette--I agree. I love all the upgrades and activities to entice a younger crowd. I have no desire to cruise a line full of lectures! I am on vacation and want fun! And if you are thinking I'm a young family, you are all wrong. I am a 61 year old grandmother of 14---that loves to cruise--and loves watching my family enjoy all the new additions to the bigger ships. I do not see it as going wrong--I see that they are trying to get more families to cruise and to make the ship their destination. I do not cruise often--maybe once a year, if lucky. Still work a full time job and have family scattered across the country that need my time too. So, Im sure I can't speak for the repeat cruisers that expect all those perks. For now--I am very happy with the experience RCCL gives me and my family. Not ready for the Holland American cruise group yet! I want more excitement than that!!! But to each their own.

[Paulette3028]

Paulette--I agree. I love all the upgrades and activities to entice a younger crowd. I have no desire to cruise a line full of lectures! I am on vacation and want fun! And if you are thinking I'm a young family, you are all wrong. I am a 61 year old grandmother of 14---that loves to cruise--and loves watching my family enjoy all the new additions to the bigger ships. I do not see it as going wrong--I see that they are trying to get more families to cruise and to make the ship their destination. I do not cruise often--maybe once a year, if lucky. Still work a full time job and have family scattered across the country that need my time too. So, Im sure I can't speak for the repeat cruisers that expect all those perks. For now--I am very happy with the experience RCCL gives me and my family. Not ready for the Holland American cruise group yet! I want more excitement than that!!! But to each their own.

 

Thank you for agreeing. I also am not retired as yet, and have little desire to be 'lecturered' to by someone someone else picked and thought would interest me. I want the fun activities available, and flowrider and me have a wonderful relationship, even though I am 63 years young. We cruise once a year, sometimes can squeeze in a short weekender, but I want FUN!

 

The big ships can be seen as the destination but the itinerary has to be interesting also. There are always things to do at the ports of call, or other passengers leave and the SHIP is all MINE for a few hours at least. It works both ways.

 

What I did not like about Allure, which we cruised this past summer, was the extra fee for the sauna/steam room facilities. I would have found time to use them, if there wasn't a fee. Sometimes after a shore excursion I liked to steam away some of the stress of the excursion, so instead I popped into a jaccuzzi. Not the same, but it sufficed.

[Big_G]

In terms of "wrong direction" - I think the move toward harmonizing the fleet to incorporate Oasis features on other ships is an example of the wrong direction. I've read these boards for years and polls asking readers to name their favorite RCL ship or class of ships pop up frequently. Despite their age, these polls almost always result in Radiance Class ships landing on top.

 

I agree with your premise. While we like the mega-ships, I think part of Royals success has been their ship variety. I think they'd be making a mistake if they start Quantumizing them all.

[steveru621]

I want to be enlightened about all of these cutbacks for Diamonds and other loyalty programs? I'm not being sarcastic, I just want to know. As a Diamond I can't remember any cutbacks outside of the great kick out of the CL. RCI responded by building Diamond Clubs on all of their new ships and converting areas into Diamond Clubs on other ships.

 

Many loyal cruisers book their next cruise at the loyalty desk or online, saving them a net of millions of dollars by not paying TA commissions, while paying loyalty discounts only for their most expensive cabins.

 

Why is that RCI's plan is to reduce loyalty perks? I see no concrete evidence. I always get a chuckle when someone posts RCI has too many Diamonds or D+. A newly minted D+ would certainly convince an executive that my product produces many customers that return over and over. I they didn't return, wouldn't you think there is a problem?

 

Dynamic dining aside, IMHO RCI is heading in exactly the right direction. They must watch the bottom line, satisfy their shareholders, and keep customers both new and loyalists happy. History is littered with bankrupt corporations that did not watch all three.

 

My two cents.

[JohnSnowGOT]

I have seen it said many times on these threads that RCi is a for profit company and all loyalty programs are always pushing the carrot.

Ok but RCi is not a normal transportation company like an airline or car rental or hotel chain. Unlike an airline or car rental....I do not have to cruise with RCi or any cruise line....for my vacation...I choose a cruise vacation and for the past 10 years have chosen RCi. My vacation $$$ and where I spend it is 100% discretionary!!! RCI is not an airline or a necessity.

We have had fun cruising 3 to 4 and sometimes 5 times a year (live in Fl) and loved the loyalty perks and climbing the ladder. After 50 +/- cruises do I feel entitled ...Most definitely! I cruised RCI because they made a promise to treat me special and gave me perks and incentive for repeated visits and I in turn took my discretionary income and spent it with RCI.

Sure I have seen blowhards in the CL both D+ and Pinnacle. Now I read people saying so many awful things about Loyalty members.

 

With so many vacation options, including other cruise lines, I am sorry RCI sees us D+ members as a problem. Am I frosted that RCI has kicked me out of the CL lounge on the OASIS? You betcha. Any D+ person who has been in the CL on Oasis class understands this....

 

I think it's time to explore other options with my discretionary income.:)

[Paulette3028]

I agree with your premise. While we like the mega-ships, I think part of Royals success has been their ship variety. I think they'd be making a mistake if they start Quantumizing them all.

 

No one can say if Royal is heading in the 'right direction' because it seems every cruiser has their own definition of what is right. Is Royal changing a little, sure...it has to adapt/change to what they perceive will continue to bring new cruisers and continue to bring something new to returning cruisers. As much as repeat cruisers (like myself) want a consistency of product provided, I for one, don't want it to become stale and old. Yet, I also don't want every ship to be the same as every other ship in the fleet, only to be differentiated by its name.

[Big_G]

No one can say if Royal is heading in the 'right direction' because it seems every cruiser has their own definition of what is right. Is Royal changing a little, sure...it has to adapt/change to what they perceive will continue to bring new cruisers and continue to bring something new to returning cruisers. As much as repeat cruisers (like myself) want a consistency of product provided, I for one, don't want it to become stale and old. Yet, I also don't want every ship to be the same as every other ship in the fleet, only to be differentiated by its name.

 

We are definitely on the same page. :)