Is RCL heading in the Wrong Direction... ?

[bigque]

I have not been cruising since the 70's, only since 2008. I really don't care how about how it was in the good old days because I wasn't there. I have not cruised on another line yet and not because I am "Loyal To Royal" (And there may be something better), but I simply don't want to yet as I am happy cruising on Royal. There has been nothing over the past six years that they have done that has gotten me irate enough to want to cruise with someone else. Just like the departure of the VCL....It was nice and if the don't have them anymore...then oh well, it was nice while they had it! Have I always been happy with evertything on every cruise like food (I have not left a cruise hungry yet), etc....No, but as I said their has been nothing yet for me to say...."I'm Leaving" :cool:

 

And at the end of the day it's still about the bottom line. In spite of what people say or think..that is what drives everything. I have not seen a for profit business yet that does not do what it can do to maximize their bottom line. The new cruisers coming in far out weighs those who leave. Even here on CC look at the post of the old time cruiser who have been cruising for years and the higher ups like D+ and Pinacles in the different threads: We don't do ship excursions. We don't buy the photos. We don't shop in the ships stores. We smuggle liquoir on the ship. We don't eat in the specialty restaurants. We don't play bingo and so on! Which takes me back to "At the end of the day it's about the bottom line" Royal will go after and market to those that they know will not only book a cruise but will spring for extras on the cruise :cool:

[pcur]

I have not priced them out myself, but have heard that most of the TAs are very reasonably priced.

 

Those bread and butter cruises on the big ships are the ones commanding the higher prices consistently.

 

If you had a choice of taking new cruisers on pricey cruise or loyalty members on a discount cruise which do you think the company is going to go for.

 

Unfortunately I think most here are correct, yes they do want some loyal cruisers, but the big bucks, and where they are catering to, come from the newbies.

 

What will be interesting to see is all the young Diamond and up members (which there are a lot more of due to inherited benefits as well as starting to cruise younger) that start to bring their families on cruises. Which way will they go??

 

The longer cruises are usually more expensive with the exception of transatlantics.

 

When I refer to bread-and-butter cruises, I'm thinking more of the 4-5 night, or Western Caribbean, or FOS cruises. Allure and Oasis have always been pricer from the get-go. But, the Vision's 4-5 nighters are very inexpensive.

 

I'm just thinking that RCCL still wants to keep their C&A repeat cruisers happy, because there's a customer base of 9 or 10 million people.

 

So far they are keeping us happy. Like I posted above, I just don't see the loss of service or quality on my cruises that people are mentioning in this thread. I think it's because we aren't bread-and-butter cruisers: we go more for the location and itinerary. RCCL has actually lost our business twice in the last 2 years because Princess and HAL offered a better price for the same itinerary. But, those were unique situations: one a South Seas cruise roundtrip from Los Angeles, and the other got us back from Sydney to Seattle, where RCCL's itinerary only took us to Honolulu.

Edited October 29, 2014 by pcur

[Tutankhamen]

We don't do ship excursions. We don't buy the photos. We don't shop in the ships stores. We smuggle liquoir on the ship. We don't eat in the specialty restaurants. We don't play bingo and so on!

 

This is why we cruise less and less.

 

Being herded like cattle in buffet lines, theater, off ship, on ship......all for what? Nah, land based seems to be more appealing. We still cruise, but not nearly as much.

[pcur]

This is why we cruise less and less.

 

Being herded like cattle in buffet lines, theater, off ship, on ship......all for what? Nah, land based seems to be more appealing. We still cruise, but not nearly as much.

 

I think the reason my husband and I don't have the same cruise experience may be because of our cruise habits.

 

We eat late, so the crowds are gone in the Windjammer when we head in around 10 - 10:30. We now choose MTD, and took the advice of a MTD maitre 'd on one of our cruises: come in at the 15 and 45 (7:15 or 7:45, for instance). You miss the crowds then, too.

 

We go into the theater with our ipads around 30 - 45 minutes before the shows start. Reading, chatting, or playing solitaire is a relaxing way to wait for the show. There's always the people watching, too. :D

 

We avoid the pool deck: too crowded and noisy. We go for our outdoor ocean watching on the Promenade Deck instead. Very quiet.

 

Because we eat later, we also get off the ship later. No lines or crowds there, either. I research ahead of time, so we know where we want to go and do when we step off the ship.

 

I think the only time we ever get involved in long lines is getting off the ship and doing the customs thing. That is a pain, but it's not under RCCL's control.

[grand isle joe]

I think the reason my husband and I don't have the same cruise experience may be because of our cruise habits.

 

We eat late, so the crowds are gone in the Windjammer when we head in around 10 - 10:30. We now choose MTD, and took the advice of a MTD maitre 'd on one of our cruises: come in at the 15 and 45 (7:15 or 7:45, for instance). You miss the crowds then, too.

 

We go into the theater with our ipads around 30 - 45 minutes before the shows start. Reading, chatting, or playing solitaire is a relaxing way to wait for the show. There's always the people watching, too. :D

 

We avoid the pool deck: too crowded and noisy. We go for our outdoor ocean watching on the Promenade Deck instead. Very quiet.

 

Because we eat later, we also get off the ship later. No lines or crowds there, either. I research ahead of time, so we know where we want to go and do when we step off the ship.

 

I think the only time we ever get involved in long lines is getting off the ship and doing the customs thing. That is a pain, but it's not under RCCL's control.

 

.......and you are paying for this?.......I guess P.T. Barnum was correct.........;)

[surgie]

In all fairness, that's what a for-profit company should do.

 

Absolutely! The shareholders own the company. Everyone of us has the opportunity to become a RCL shareholder if we so choose.

[pcur]

.......and you are paying for this?.......I guess P.T. Barnum was correct.........;)

 

I don't understand what you are saying, except an insulting remark about me being a "sucker".

[pcur]

Like I said it's a balance. Nobody is saying the loyal customers aren't important. But they're not the key to growth, new and younger cruisers are. That's not me saying it, it's easy to see which markets they are going after, and how there is less and less emphasis on loyalty perks.

 

20,000 is a lot of people but it's not a big percentage of their passenger base. They will have 20 million+ passengers this year and that's without the Quantums or Oasis 3 sailing yet. So that's 0.01%.

 

Percentage is not exact due to people taking multiple cruises, etc but you get the idea. Even if all 20,000 take 5 cruises a year you're not even up to one half of one percent.

 

I was also emphasizing that there are 9 - 10 million C&A members, and that's a huge customer base to also focus on. Also, as I said above, I actually saw my loyalty perks INCREASE in the last year.

 

I'm not trying to be a cheerleader here; I just want to point out the another view. My experiences are just not jiving with many of the comments on this thread.

Edited October 29, 2014 by pcur

[Tutankhamen]

I think the reason my husband and I don't have the same cruise experience may be because of our cruise habits.

 

We eat late, so the crowds are gone in the Windjammer when we head in around 10 - 10:30. We now choose MTD, and took the advice of a MTD maitre 'd on one of our cruises: come in at the 15 and 45 (7:15 or 7:45, for instance). You miss the crowds then, too.

 

We go into the theater with our ipads around 30 - 45 minutes before the shows start. Reading, chatting, or playing solitaire is a relaxing way to wait for the show. There's always the people watching, too. :D

 

We avoid the pool deck: too crowded and noisy. We go for our outdoor ocean watching on the Promenade Deck instead. Very quiet.

 

Because we eat later, we also get off the ship later. No lines or crowds there, either. I research ahead of time, so we know where we want to go and do when we step off the ship.

 

I think the only time we ever get involved in long lines is getting off the ship and doing the customs thing. That is a pain, but it's not under RCCL's control.

 

I see, and understand. In a villa, I get up when I want. Stop at the local coffee shop and grab a muffin and cup of Joe. Head back and check email, catch up on some news all the while the wife is sleeping in. Sit on the patio and watch the sunrise or the waves. Take a stroll and stop in an eatery for breakfast. Book a local tour guide and set our own pace for the day. Head back to villa. Maybe order out, or make a sandwich. I will take a nap, while the wife goes to the beach or patio. Wake up, shower and possibly make a drink and watch the sunset. Call home and check on the family. Head out to a well reviewed restaurant. Maybe head over to a Coco Bongo or maybe the evening fire dance on the beach. Stop at local watering hole before heading back to the villa. Maybe have another drink, drop in a movie or a night stroll on the beach.

 

No stress over missing the ship. More time to explore. No worries about smuggling to make drinks in our residence. No worries about internet time and charges. Able to call home for pennies. Having access to 100's of restaurants. over 2,000' of space to stretch out. No muster. No worries about lines.

That said, sometimes a cruise still hits the spot. Just not as much anymore.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[dadroy]

We still find cruising to be a good value for a vacation. Of course that does not mean Royal is the only company out there. Has the quality gone down/ Yes

 

Has service gone down?: Yes

 

Has the show quality gone done? Yes

 

But it is still a good value if you get cruise at the right time on the right line on the right ship!

 

Perhaps I run afoul of what is affordable. I read sooooo many posts of people in the grand suite who think the AI is the same price as a cruise. Well for those of us who prefer insides, $1,200 for 7 days is unapproachable at an AI. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me.

 

Royal is doing what it has to so they are profitable every quarter. I will be happy if they stop discounting last minute cruises. Less complaints from those of us who book far ahead to grab the rooms we want.

 

My wife just bought a Chevy Volt. She paid xxxxxx. I think all of us would say if the price went down next ween to xxxxxx-$1,000 we would not expect to get the $1,000 back. But this is the way cruisers fee. Hey, he paid less than me, I want his price. Tell them so sorry so sad!

[Tutankhamen]

We still find cruising to be a good value for a vacation. Of course that does not mean Royal is the only company out there. Has the quality gone down/ Yes

 

Has service gone down?: Yes

 

Has the show quality gone done? Yes

 

But it is still a good value if you get cruise at the right time on the right line on the right ship!

 

Perhaps I run afoul of what is affordable. I read sooooo many posts of people in the grand suite who think the AI is the same price as a cruise. Well for those of us who prefer insides, $1,200 for 7 days is unapproachable at an AI. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me.

 

Royal is doing what it has to so they are profitable every quarter. I will be happy if they stop discounting last minute cruises. Less complaints from those of us who book far ahead to grab the rooms we want.

 

My wife just bought a Chevy Volt. She paid xxxxxx. I think all of us would say if the price went down next ween to xxxxxx-$1,000 we would not expect to get the $1,000 back. But this is the way cruisers fee. Hey, he paid less than me, I want his price. Tell them so sorry so sad!

 

I am not a regular on CC. However, I do not remember ever hearing anyone complain about last minute deals. I think I have heard everything else debated and complained about.

[grandmarnnurse]

We still find cruising to be a good value for a vacation. Of course that does not mean Royal is the only company out there. Has the quality gone down/ Yes

 

Has service gone down?: Yes

 

Has the show quality gone done? Yes

 

But it is still a good value if you get cruise at the right time on the right line on the right ship!

 

Perhaps I run afoul of what is affordable. I read sooooo many posts of people in the grand suite who think the AI is the same price as a cruise. Well for those of us who prefer insides, $1,200 for 7 days is unapproachable at an AI. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me.

 

Royal is doing what it has to so they are profitable every quarter. I will be happy if they stop discounting last minute cruises. Less complaints from those of us who book far ahead to grab the rooms we want.

 

My wife just bought a Chevy Volt. She paid xxxxxx. I think all of us would say if the price went down next ween to xxxxxx-$1,000 we would not expect to get the $1,000 back. But this is the way cruisers fee. Hey, he paid less than me, I want his price. Tell them so sorry so sad!

I usually try to book very early for the best price. My daughter held off--thinking the price would only go down. Wrong! The price for our cruise on the week we chose sky-rocketed! Since she had 6 to pay for, she will not be cruising with us this year--only our 2 sons and their families who booked when we did.

Also--We are now inside cabin cruisers. I say "now" because we always booked a balcony, but realized just how little time we spent in our cabins, so why throw that money away? We are very happy being inside cabin cruisers, now, and can always get great deals on cruises at that level. More available to spend on the cruise! LOL!!

[akcruz]

I am not a regular on CC. However, I do not remember ever hearing anyone complain about last minute deals. I think I have heard everything else debated and complained about.

 

You don't hear people who are able to take advantage of the last minute deals complaining. However, you constantly see my cruise price dropped and I am past final payment why can't I get the new rate/OBC/etc. These types of posts are on here almost daily.

[jewopaho]

Maybe the bread-and-butter cruises (my phrase) sailing from Florida are full of younger families, but the Australian, South Seas, Transatlantics, repositioning, and South America cruises are full of retired people who have the time to go on these longer cruises. Actually, I'll guess that Princess and HAL get more business from this demographic because they offer longer itineraries.

That's the point ... without that continual stream of new blood, the cruise line would stagnate. Sure, many of us veterans sail the "big box" ships, as well ... but we're not the target demographic (we've already tried the product, and like it enough to keep coming back).

 

I know what you mean about us retired folks ... spending the kids' inheritance one cruise at a time. We personally don't like the longer trips, unless the itinerary is very special ... a week or so several times a year suits us fine.

 

I wouldn't lump Princess and HAL together ... there is a difference. The older folks cruise with Princess ... their parents sail Holland America.

[American Bear]

In all fairness, that's what a for-profit company should do.

 

 

So you think sailing with high priced empty cabins is a good idea, cause that's what will happen if prices aren't reduced the last minute!:eek:

[American Bear]

What I am reading here is that they are going to be reducing inventory to support higher pricing. Moving ships to other markets will definitely reduce cabin inventory in the Caribbean and that would certainly support higher price points so it sounds like a good business decision for them.

 

Also, without them having to fire sale the unsold inventory last minute they raise the satisfaction of their early bookers. Sounds like a win-win for RCI.

 

It also sounds like they are willing to let go of the most price sensitive customers in favor of those who will support higher margins. To me, this falls in line with the recent Oasis dry dock changes as well.

 

Just my 2 cents and not redeemable for that amount.

 

 

 

Win-Win? All the other cruise lines are adding cabin inventory in the Caribbean over the next few years with newer, larger ships!

RCL will not be able to maintain high prices vs the competition no matter what they say, and this comes from a stockholder in RCL!:eek:

[mattwright]

 

I wouldn't lump Princess and HAL together ... there is a difference. The older folks cruise with Princess ... their parents sail Holland America.

 

Well done. :D

[Biker19]

i wouldn't lump princess and hal together ... There is a difference. The older folks cruise with princess ... Their parents sail holland america.

rofl

Edited October 30, 2014 by Biker19

[Whitnee1]

Cruise lines will always discount at the end rather than sailing with an empty cabin. The trade off has always been book early and book what you want versus waiting and ending up where they put you. Sometimes you were the windshield sometimes you were the bug. As long as the discounts came before final payment you would have to be refunded the difference. If it was after you would have an option to upgrade at the discounted price.

 

Looks like we could be taking more trips on NCL which is OK with me we will always go with the best deal. I think they are misjudging their demographics but time will tell.

 

And you really can't compare the cruise to the cost of an AI as the AI includes alcohol.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Whitnee1

[Calgon1]

Interesting read so far. Personally, I am not a "Loyal to Royal" cruiser. My preference runs more to the Celebrity and Holland America products. That is to say, a more laid back atmosphere and traditional service.

When RCCL was founded, they followed the mainstream of cruising, back then. There were three types of cruising: 1) Open Ended, Trans-Atlantic (or Pacific), 2) The Grand Tour (world cruises) and 3) the new Closed Loop 3- to 14-Day excursion cruise. RCCL did well with the excursion cruise. Over time each cruise line developed a personality, which catered to a fairly specific demographic; i.e.- Carnival - low cost/party barge, Holland America - the rest home at sea; Princess - families, etc.

But the ships were just transportation from one port to another. The passengers spent some cash on-board (casinos and bars) but still it was basically just cruise fare, casino, bar bill and tips.

The lines added $pecialty restaruants. We liked those. It fed our illusion that we really were special. The lines realized that they could make more money. They (their stockholders) liked that.

But, we still were spending a lot of money in the ports. The cruise lines saw those dollars going down the gangway and responded by building their own ports - Castaway Cay, Half-Moon Cay, Labadee, etc. And added more extensive onboard retail shops. More money rolled in. Stockholders liked that, too.

Then NCL began (what I consider to be 'nickle and diming') by going very low-cost, but adding a plethora of "$pecialty dining" venues to compensate for the revenue difference. But, a segment of the market responded positively and the experiment worked.

Other cruise lines (stockholders) noticed.

RCI's direction was to make the ship the ship the destination. No longer were we passengers traveling from one port to another (where we spent our money), we became guests at their resort. Suddenly, we started spending more on-board. Stockholders really liked that. In the cases of the Oasis, Allure, Quantum and Anthem OTSs, RCI is taking it to the next step by changing the ship to the "theme park at sea". Now, there is really no reason to even get off the ship (until the wallet is empty). Apparently, it's working. At least well enough that two more Oasis class are being built. I'm sure the stockholders approve.

So why am I booked on another RCI? A couple months ago, they ran a pretty good sale (from a family perspective). Remember the "kids sail free" promotion? Well, we have two sub-families (DD, DSiL and 3xDGS) (DS, DDiL, 2xDGDs) that we have been wanting to get addicted to cruising; and this was the perfect opportunity. The attractions of the Oasis OTS appeal to the younger/more physically active set, and the kidlets certainly fall into that demographic. For the old farts (like me) there are venues that I will enjoy. So, we booked three cabins and are now going through the price reduction, upgrade, price reduction, routine.

After this, SunFlower and I will probably return to =X= and HAL for most of our future cruises. Maybe that's because we're getting older and, having experienced more, have a better idea of what we like and what we don't. Or . . . maybe because we're just getting older. Loyalty? Yes. but to our personal values, not to a cruise line . . . :D

Anyway, that's my opinion of where RCI is headed. It it "the wrong direction"? Not if it works.

If it doesn't, I have no doubt that RCI will reset their sails and adjust their course . . . as any competent mariner would do.

[American Bear]

We still find cruising to be a good value for a vacation. Of course that does not mean Royal is the only company out there. Has the quality gone down/ Yes

 

Has service gone down?: Yes

 

Has the show quality gone done? Yes

 

But it is still a good value if you get cruise at the right time on the right line on the right ship!

 

Perhaps I run afoul of what is affordable. I read sooooo many posts of people in the grand suite who think the AI is the same price as a cruise. Well for those of us who prefer insides, $1,200 for 7 days is unapproachable at an AI. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me.

 

Royal is doing what it has to so they are profitable every quarter. I will be happy if they stop discounting last minute cruises. Less complaints from those of us who book far ahead to grab the rooms we want.

 

My wife just bought a Chevy Volt. She paid xxxxxx. I think all of us would say if the price went down next ween to xxxxxx-$1,000 we would not expect to get the $1,000 back. But this is the way cruisers fee. Hey, he paid less than me, I want his price. Tell them so sorry so sad!

 

 

Lets say your wife bought a Chevy Volt, but didn't get it yet, she'd get the new lower price, just like a cruiser who hasn't taken their cruise yet 'should' get the lower price! The final pmt. gimmick is garbage!

[artbcpa]

Cruise lines will always discount at the end rather than sailing with an empty cabin. The trade off has always been book early and book what you want versus waiting and ending up where they put you. Sometimes you were the windshield sometimes you were the bug. As long as the discounts came before final payment you would have to be refunded the difference. If it was after you would have an option to upgrade at the discounted price.

 

And you really can't compare the cruise to the cost of an AI as the AI includes alcohol.

 

Very cute comments.

 

We love cruising. We also love all inclusive resorts (AI). We wouldn't give up either.

 

We are still trying out different cruise lines, even though we do have preferences. Here is my take:

 

The very large ships (3 - 5 star) have the resources to have better entertainment and can afford to have lots of different choices. Unfortunately to fill their ships they need to keep their prices low. That means the service suffers as they have a lower ratio of staff to passengers and they don't pay as much so they have less training and less experience. In order to get better service, you need to have status (which means traveling on them almost exclusively) or book a suite or higher. Even then the service does not match the better ships.

 

The next level of ships (4-5 star) are somewhat smaller. Most have better food (not all), better service, but not quite the variety of activities. The rooms are usually larger, so you may be able to step down a class or two and still get the same size room, but service is still spotty.

 

The higher level of ships (5 1/2 and 6 star) have outstanding service (most of the time), but you may lose a great deal of choices. Most of them are all-inclusive so they can truly be compared to an AI. While the food still varies from ship to ship, most of them are superb. The ratio of staff to passengers can be as low as 1 to 1. Being smaller they can also go to more exotic ports without tendering.

 

Each category offers pros and cons. Interestingly, Conde Nast did a comparison of the cost and found that there wasn't near as much difference between classes as most people thought because of what is included in each.

 

Overall, our favorite for sea days is Crystal because it is still big enough to have the very best entertainment and offers the food and service that are rated #1. For port intensive cruises, we like the even smaller ships, where the entertainment isn't as important because you are out all day in the town and most excursions are included in the price.

 

By the way most of the top lines will automatically match a lower price and you don't even have to ask them.

[Lynnees]

Cruise lines will always discount at the end rather than sailing with an empty cabin. The trade off has always been book early and book what you want versus waiting and ending up where they put you. Sometimes you were the windshield sometimes you were the bug. As long as the discounts came before final payment you would have to be refunded the difference. If it was after you would have an option to upgrade at the discounted price.

 

Looks like we could be taking more trips on NCL which is OK with me we will always go with the best deal. I think they are misjudging their demographics but time will tell.

 

And you really can't compare the cruise to the cost of an AI as the AI includes alcohol.

 

I just like that sentence -

[BillB48]

I just like that sentence -

 

and a song to go along with it....

 

[grand isle joe]

Lets say your wife bought a Chevy Volt, but didn't get it yet, she'd get the new lower price, just like a cruiser who hasn't taken their cruise yet 'should' get the lower price! The final pmt. gimmick is garbage!

 

If my wife bought a Chevy Volt I would draw up the papers to get her committed........:eek:;)