Is RCL heading in the Wrong Direction... ?

[insidecabin]

Last minute sales with diamond discounts and happy hour makes the D pax a money pit many have so much OBC they generate zero revenue on board.

 

All cruise lines were holding prices this year but they capitulated to fill ships, expect more restricted discount and regional to limit those booked getting price drops.

 

Princess dumped a load of cabins through the UK this year.

[RSLeesburg]

We are part of the new group that RCI is trying to capture. We took our first cruise ever last year - on one of the smaller, older ships (Grandeur), and we loved the experience - loved it so much that we booked a second cruise for this year (sailing in three weeks). We have no idea what has been cut or how service has declined. We can only judge RCI based on the service we received on our cruise, and we felt it was worth the money we spent. I am actually very excited to try one of the bigger, newer ships - Freedom, Oasis, or Quantum class to see how much more there is to experience compared to Grandeur. However, with all the complaints about things that are no longer provided, declines in service, etc., from my perspective, we tried RCI for one family vacation and booked a second cruise, so would say mission accomplished on RCI's part.

 

 

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[Big_G]

If you listened to the last company call you'd have heard that they aren't having a problem filling their ships and that's why prices remain high. I understand that they need to draw new cruisers to their product but I don't see them pandering to first time cruisers over their loyal customers. I'm not trying to be critical when I ask why people think that but... why do people think that? Is it because their branching into new markets? It a serious question. :confused:

Edited October 28, 2014 by Big_G

[RSLeesburg]

Additionally, if there will not be cost savings why book so early?

 

 

We book suites, which go very quickly - at least on Grandeur. We needed to book almost 12 months in advance to get one. At about 9-10 months before the cruise, the GS's were completely sold out. Not sure if this true on all the ships, but I have found this to be the case. I have looked at the Panama Canal cruises, and I think every GS is sold out for every cruise posted.

 

 

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[Grandprix]

I have no problem paying a premium price for a premium product. But if RCL charges premium prices for a Carnival/Walmart experience, well then we have a problem.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

For most people, change is bad. So it's pretty natural that people think that all these things will be bad.

 

I'm going to judge when we finally experience it.

 

It's interesting to hear people be really upset that the VCL is going away, and they have every right to be. But I'd be willing to bet that the trade off of losing them vs. what they gain is probably worth while. Using the space is a good thing.

 

Same with the hidden balconies- things that nobody used (which is whey they were "secret" or hidden).

 

The 100 more people on the Oasis is nothing compared to the addition on the Enchantment, so I don't think the crowding issue on the TA was that- it was that not enough stuff was open, most of the time was inside, etc etc.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not going to judge on changes with out experiencing them. Food wise- I accept the trade off of food vs. cost. That, and we still have not really seen that big of drop off- maybe we like the new menus... dunno.

 

Granted, it's not all great. But it still what we want to do. Especially for the value.

 

I agree with all you have said.

 

In the long run, are any of these changes (excluding Dynamic Dining) really that big that you would stop cruising with Royal? IMO, they're not enough to sway me to other cruise lines…for some these changes may be the last straw and they decide to try other lines. A lot of it depends on each actual person.

[gatour]

On one hand I agree with you that cruise lines have added additional expenses, but they have also allowed you to better compare certain things.

 

RCCL nows allow you to buy an unlimited alcohol beverage package per person instead of per cabin. In the old days an unlimited beverage package wasn't even an option for anyone.

 

An all-inclusive has the all unlimited beverage embedded in the room-rate. So for us, me ,a drinker and my wife, a tee-totaler there is an implied cost that RCCL doesn't have. So when I compare prices of a RCCL cruise vs an all-inclusive the underlying assumption is that I include a beverage package for me and not my wife in the total cost of the cruise. The same goes with the tip situation. My only experience with an all-inclusive is with Sandal's and tips are also embedded in the price of the room. On cruises I also tip the recommend amount, so I take that into account in comparing prices.

 

So on one hand the RCCL is going towards more an al-carte approach, but on the other hand they are incorporating certain features of an all-inclusive.

 

I have been cruising since 1981 as a 17 year old, and my tastes have changed over the years. I have moved my preferences among the cruise lines because of this. But I still "float" among the major lines, due to my vacation needs/wants at that particular time.

 

I agree, it will be interesting in how the cruise lines continue to compete amongst themselves and the other vacation options. I will not lose sleep over it as I make my vacation decisions based on my wants/needs and my wife wants/needs. As always vacation provider doesn't meet our want's or needs we will move on to one that will.

 

The travel industry is pretty competitive, they will do what they need to do to fill their ships. It will be interesting to see how they choose to compete with the all-inclusive resorts since they have chosen to focus quite a bit of attention in increasing on-board expenditures of their cruisers. The new ships seem to have lots of extra expenses, while the on-shore resorts seem to be trending towards the all-inclusive options.

[Toddcan]

I understand that they need to draw new cruisers to their product but I don't see them pandering to first time cruisers over their loyal customers. I'm not trying to be critical when I ask why people think that but... why do people think that? Is it because their branching into new markets? It a serious question. :confused:

 

I have not cruised a lot, but I have been following these boards for 8 years now. I've seen the complaints of frequent cruisers who have lost a lot of their perks. The biggest being the combinability of discounts being eliminated/reduced. Also, lately there's been a lot of chatter about lounges. The Next Cruise Certificate OBC amount was reduced this year as well. I'm sure there are several other biggies I have missed.

 

To be honest, I don't pay much heed because it doesn't affect me yet, and when it does, things will have certainly changed even more. But, there is certainly an air of Royal doing less for their repeat cruisers - unless you are a Pin, from what I read.

[Starry Eyes]

On one hand I agree with you that cruise lines have added additional expenses, but they have also allowed you to better compare certain things.

 

RCCL nows allow you to buy an unlimited alcohol beverage package per person instead of per cabin. In the old days an unlimited beverage package wasn't even an option for anyone.

 

An all-inclusive has the all unlimited beverage embedded in the room-rate. So for us, me ,a drinker and my wife, a tee-totaler there is an implied cost that RCCL doesn't have. So when I compare prices of a RCCL cruise vs an all-inclusive the underlying assumption is that I include a beverage package for me and not my wife in the total cost of the cruise. The same goes with the tip situation. My only experience with an all-inclusive is with Sandal's and tips are also embedded in the price of the room. On cruises I also tip the recommend amount, so I take that into account in comparing prices.

 

So on one hand the RCCL is going towards more an al-carte approach, but on the other hand they are incorporating certain features of an all-inclusive.

 

I have been cruising since 1981 as a 17 year old, and my tastes have changed over the years. I have moved my preferences among the cruise lines because of this. But I still "float" among the major lines, due to my vacation needs/wants at that particular time.

 

I agree, it will be interesting in how the cruise lines continue to compete amongst themselves and the other vacation options. I will not lose sleep over it as I make my vacation decisions based on my wants/needs and my wife wants/needs. As always vacation provider doesn't meet our want's or needs we will move on to one that will.

Well put.

As one looks at offerings on the newer ships, Royal Caribbean seems to want to attract many young, active couples and families. Not that they want to lose the older cruisers, but many of the expensive bells and whistles on newer ships seem to draw the younger more than the older demographic. If ones does not want those extras (or resents them being wrapped in the cruise fare), there are still plenty of older ships and as well as a sister line. The company would probably be happy to see loyal customers move from Royal Caribbean to Celebrity as they move through time and life stages.

[Big_G]

I have not cruised a lot, but I have been following these boards for 8 years now. I've seen the complaints of frequent cruisers who have lost a lot of their perks. The biggest being the combinability of discounts being eliminated/reduced. Also, lately there's been a lot of chatter about lounges. The Next Cruise Certificate OBC amount was reduced this year as well. I'm sure there are several other biggies I have missed.

 

To be honest, I don't pay much heed because it doesn't affect me yet, and when it does, things will have certainly changed even more. But, there is certainly an air of Royal doing less for their repeat cruisers - unless you are a Pin, from what I read.

 

You're right. I've been witness to that as well but I'm not sure how that is sacrificing loyal cruisers to draw in the new. I think that's a cost issue given the size of the loyalty program. I've also seen them turn once public areas into reserved areas for suite guests and loyalists. I think a lot of these claims are from a particular perspective and not necessarily on balance.

[Starry Eyes]

I have not cruised a lot, but I have been following these boards for 8 years now. I've seen the complaints of frequent cruisers who have lost a lot of their perks. The biggest being the combinability of discounts being eliminated/reduced. Also, lately there's been a lot of chatter about lounges. The Next Cruise Certificate OBC amount was reduced this year as well. I'm sure there are several other biggies I have missed.

 

To be honest, I don't pay much heed because it doesn't affect me yet, and when it does, things will have certainly changed even more. But, there is certainly an air of Royal doing less for their repeat cruisers - unless you are a Pin, from what I read.

 

Funny, when I think of "perks", I think of drinks and internet and laundry and concierge and lounges and such. Now that nearly all ships have D lounges (and all have vouchers), I don't think people have lost a lot of perks (by my definition of perks;)), as I think they largely made up for D's loss of CL by adding DL's and vouchers.

 

Rather than considering them perks, I think of combinability and NCC OBC as price structures. Probably semantics, as both impact perceived value.

[CRUISEBOY305]

We Floridians hope that you are right:D

 

Another Floridan that hopes for this too. I can't imagine RC not having last minute deals on cruises like enchantment and Majesty. It won't stick.

[RSLeesburg]

You're right. I've been witness to that as well but I'm not sure how that is sacrificing loyal cruisers to draw in the new. I think that's a cost issue given the size of the loyalty program. I've also seen them turn once public areas into reserved areas for suite guests and loyalists. I think a lot of these claims are from a particular perspective and not necessarily on balance.

 

 

I think some of these changes are more driven by competition, not as a slight to loyalty members. I know that I was looking strongly at Haven and Yacht Club because they offered more perks with their suites. Now that RCI is stepping it up on Oasis, I am not considering NCL or MSC as much. We take one vacation a year, so we splurge for a suite. I am never going to take multiple vacations per year and I don't care about loyalty points as I am so low on the totem pole it doesn't matter. But, if I am spending big bucks, I do want as many perks as I can get :). In this case, if RCI wants to attract these infrequent, but higher-spending vacationing families, it needs to keep up with the other lines.

 

 

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[silentbob007]

Funny, when I think of "perks", I think of drinks and internet and laundry and concierge and lounges and such. Now that nearly all ships have D lounges (and all have vouchers), I don't think people have lost a lot of perks (by my definition of perks;)), as I think they largely made up for D's loss of CL by adding DL's and vouchers.

 

Rather than considering them perks, I think of combinability and NCC OBC as price structures. Probably semantics, as both impact perceived value.

 

That is an interesting take. I remember the old (for me) days when you could combine every discount under the sun but you had to cruise on a Voyager or Radiance-class ship for any lounge privileges. The much-derided (by some) Diamond Event was introduced right before my 17-night cruise on the Rhapsody in Australia and while it did not have the same menu as the CL, it was a great way to meet and mingle with other passengers, crew, and officers. A few months prior ... I would have gotten nothing.

 

As much as I like to hold on to the idea of being treated specially and individually for being a loyal guest, there are so many loyal guests that that individual treatment is never going to happen again (unless I really start cruising more). I refuse to let myself become one of those who rips apart, chides, or expects special service before other paying passengers for not having the right status. I will take advantage of perks or face time given to me, but I will not slam my fist down and demand attention because I'm a loyal cruiser WHO DEMANDS THE APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF GROVELING.

 

In the end ... as others have said ... the cruise market has changed significantly in the last few decades. Newer ships are attractions, not luxury yachts. Thankfully I know what I enjoy when cruising and while Royal's changes may make that harder in some ways, I still manage to enjoy myself and make plans for future sailings.

[kontraxed]

If I go by the contents of the Cruise Critic boards, you would think the entire cruise industry is about to dry up and blow away. At the end of the day, my wife and I go on cruises on different cruise lines, we always have a good time and then we look forward to our next cruise. On each cruise I could find something I don't like, but I normally find a lot more that I really enjoyed. I do believe there is not a lot of financial benefit to being a loyal customer to any particular cruise line. Look for a good destination on a good ship with a good price and don't worry about being loyal. This is business. The cruise lines will do what they have to, to keep the ships full.

[grand isle joe]

Look around at your fellow "royal" passengers......seem to be....well....aged and wrinkled? As people get "more mature" they seem to complain ALOT and then talk about bowel movements. Last cruise I had to check the smoke stack emblem for I thought I was on a Holland American ship. :eek:

 

P.S. watch the up coming complaints about no discounted fares...."GIVE ME MY DISCOUNT!"

[idamae3218]

I have to say I agree that RCL is going in a direction that I'm not excited about. We only cruise once a year. Friends & family go with us because we do the research & planning. We tried Celebrity, nice but not fun for our thrn teens. We tried Breakaway last year because of its location, new ship & great prices. We concluded RCL is the best choice.

 

It is usually more than NCL & definitely Carnival, but we felt you got a better product & experience. But the ridiculous pricing with the "sales" recently, the decrease of included & increase in extras, taking away iconic spaces for a chosen few & so much more, it's getting harder to recommend RCL over NCL.

 

If you're new to the line, you don't really know or care about what has changed. I remember my first cruise on Oasis, my cousin asked how we liked Johnny Rockets. She had sailed years before us. We said great & it's only a $3.99 charge. She replied, it was free when I sailed. Johnny rockets is even more now. Quantum has some free cool features, for now.

 

When we go to a land all inclusive, we pay the cost & that's it. It annoyed me that NCL has more pay than free restaurants. RCL is headed that way. Until the cruisers respond by going elsewhere, it will continue to cut back & charge more.

 

As a side vent, I get the whole suites with concierge, etc. I don't really get the separate pool, restaurant, etc. Even 5 star hiteld have the same restaurants no matter which room or suite you're staying in. It feels too much like a class system. I think I would take my $20, 000 to a line with less people.

 

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Edited October 28, 2014 by idamae3218

[karena1]

I love Royal and for the most part will continue to cruise them. That being said, since we will probably never reach Pinnacle, we now look at Celebrity and Princess. We will only cruise those 3 lines, but many times we get better deals on Princess so will also do them

[pcur]

I'm just not seeing this "erosion" that we're referencing here. I've spent 31 nights so far this year on two RCCL ships, and I'm about to spend another 14 on two others. So far, so good.

 

Both ships so far looked great, the service was excellent, the food was good, and our perks improved!

 

I can make final judgement after the upcoming 14 nights on two ships, but I expect I will be just as satisfied with it all.

 

We loved every minute on the Radiance, I had an amazing b2b on the Vision this summer, and we are doing b2b Southern Caribbean itineraries on two ships in a month: seeing a great array of Caribbean Islands between the two.

 

Pricing: Average was $109 per night per person, not including tips, but including taxes and fees. All but 9 nights are in a balcony cabin. Since 22 nights of our cruising was in Australia, New Zealand, and New Caledonia, they increased the cost per night. These are cruises that are typically more expensive. However, $109 per night per person is close to my target of $100 per night.

Edited October 28, 2014 by pcur

[Fat Paul]

We have been cruising for approximately 7 years, always on Royal Caribbean, always in at least a Jr. Suite. Before that we vacationed mostly at Disney world. I have recently been craving a change of pace so I have been researching another trip to Disney world (old time sake). I have been perusing the Dis forums and what do I find? Whining, complaining, crying and wringing of hands.......just like this forum. It is very entertaining to read that people staying at value resorts or inside cabins find the vacation experience "not luxurious enough". If you want rock bottom prices, expect a rock bottom vacation experience.

[danv3]

We have been cruising for approximately 7 years, always on Royal Caribbean, always in at least a Jr. Suite. Before that we vacationed mostly at Disney world. I have recently been craving a change of pace so I have been researching another trip to Disney world (old time sake). I have been perusing the Dis forums and what do I find? Whining, complaining, crying and wringing of hands.......just like this forum. It is very entertaining to read that people staying at value resorts or inside cabins find the vacation experience "not luxurious enough". If you want rock bottom prices, expect a rock bottom vacation experience.

 

As someone who spends a lot of time on Disney message boards, I can say that the negative tone of many of those boards is similar to what you see here. Disney is heavily focused on first time guests with little regard to repeat visitors. Their primary strategies are raising prices and removing the "little things" that used to set Disney apart. It doesn't seem to me that RCL has gotten quite so short-term profit focused as Disney yet, but some of their changes (Dynamic Dining) remind me a lot of Disney's MyMagic+ nonsense.

[rtazz17]

I love change and Im quite happy with royal.If you dont change you become a has been.Some die hards will stop cruising on royal but they will gain many many more cruisers in the mean time.They know what their doing.They are going in the right direction if you ask me and I love it!!!!

[kccrzr]

I have been wondering for some time now if RCCL is pushing us away from RCI ships and towards Celebrity (or perhaps Celebrity is just sounding better to me). But, it seems the itineraries are more interesting overall on Celebrity, Celebrity has some great promos which include beverage packages and for some reason I get many emails from Celebrity but can''t seem to get Royal to send me emails no matter how many times I sign up. (And no, the emails are not going to a spam filter).

[pcur]

But, it seems the itineraries are more interesting overall on Celebrity.

 

I don't know about that. My upcoming b2b is San Juan, Grenada, St. Lucia, Antigua, St. Croix, St. Thomas, St. Kitts, Aruba, Curacao, and San Juan.

 

Both on RCCL.

[PLEIKU68]

It is understandable, but it will dramatically cut down on passengers in Florida/NYC/Baltimore etc and surrounding states that can drive in a reasonable amount of time to get away at the last minute.

 

Additionally, if there will not be cost savings why book so early?

 

What's wrong with these folks taking cruises at the last minute ? Are you jealous that you can't do it. I just don't understand your comment !:confused: