New Carnival Inc Marketing Program

[shredie]

[quote name='Hawaiidan']

THe easiest for Carnival is to adopt what the airlines will be doing in 2015
You earn points based on the amount you spend and how often you spend.
...
Does this make sence? [/QUOTE]

I don't know if it makes "sence" whatever that may be, but I don't want to spend time on my cruise fiddling with my calculator to keep track of my status from day to day.

[Hawaiidan]

[quote name='shredie']I don't know if it makes "sence" whatever that may be, but I don't want to spend time on my cruise fiddling with my calculator to keep track of my status from day to day.[/QUOTE]

Just like the old days of Green stamps and Betty Crocker coupons .

The airlines for 30 years have been using the point/mile method and have been wildly successful in their programs. Tracking miles/points is quite easy and done by everyone from Housewives to CEO's.. and pretty simple. The companies who offer these incentives...send monthly statements to you by mail or e-mail, so you don't have to !

You build points with band X and then redeem them for a whole range of potential rewards from free trips to golf clubs.. from a published list or catalog.

Just ask and business traveler or watch TV to see the dozens of credit card companies offering points.... Books, movies and magazines are even written for those eager to collect on their point/mile accounts... If you haven't paid attention you might be surprised how wide spread it is.

Yes it is new to the cruise industry, Yes it is change, but it is the accepted method of rewarding customer loyalty. Its just that the cruise industry took so long to pick up on it.... You can ignore it which is fine or embrace it.... but it is the light at the end of the tunnel on the train headed smack dab for you.

[Iamcruzin]

[quote name='shredie']I don't know if it makes "sence" whatever that may be, but I don't want to spend time on my cruise fiddling with my calculator to keep track of my status from day to day.[/quote]
Thank you and to add I'm not spending $3000 on board to gain one point. For far less than $3000 I could just toss my cloths at the end of the cruise and buy new ones. I'm not spending that kind of money to have a few pair of underwear washed and/or be able to jump ahead of the tender line. If the incentive program is too complex nobody will buy into it and it will fail.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='Iamcruzin']...After reading some of these ideas, If I need to take a course in quantitative methods or hire an auditor from Price Waterhouse Coopers to figure out my status then you have lost my business and I will just continue to search out the best price on any cruise line.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I tossed all my frequent-flier cards once the airlines got ridiculous with their programs, and now just shop for price and schedules when I fly. I hope the cruise lines don't follow suit. If they do, without grandfathering past passengers, there will be some very disgruntled cruisers. Edited November 26, 2014 by Ryndam2002

[cruzsnooze]

Many airline passengers are flying for business and do not pay for the fare. That's not something that happens with cruises so a comparison is useless. The number of nights sailed was the equalizer VS number of cruises so that solved the short cruise passengers getting up to elite too fast.
.
I still think the threshold for making elite needs to go up to at least 175 nights or 200 nights. When you go to the elite happy hour and are 100th in line for a appetizer you realize elite is close to worthless.

[Hawaiidan]

[quote name='Ryndam2002']I agree. I tossed all my frequent-flier cards once the airlines got ridiculous with their programs, and now just shop for price and schedules when I fly. I hope the cruise lines don't follow suit. If they do, without grandfathering past passengers, there will be some very disgruntled cruisers.[/QUOTE]

I have been retired a long time, saved all my United miles and points. I haven't paid for an air fare in 10 years... Take them to Europe, Asia, Hawaii, south America My hotel points.... well We still have16 days free and any hotel world wide. And I am not elite with either program....[I] just saved.
You may think ridiculous what many have reaped tens of thousands of dollars worth of benefits year after year.

And there are literal millions of of travelers just like me that love the programs. Hey I am flying rt to Australia business next month for $11.50pp ( a $6900.00 ticket)
Sorry that you can't see that as worth the effort.
Because of the sheer size of the success and resulting customer loyalty it has produced it would be ill-advised to think that the cruise industry would not follow Hotels. Banks, airlines, Car companies. restaurants, credit cards....its endless.
I think you and others missed the point, which is with a universal cross brands reward/recognition program there can be more than one path to rewards it doesn't have to be "elite status" but could also offer rewards to both elites and non elites who choose to save credits...
Honestly how would reward a passenger who sails Seabourn frequently to be fair with a frequent Carnival or Costa passenger? You can not compare days or cruises because of if the vast $$$ difference each pays.. You can reward people with points that allow them up-grade or get benefits for brief periods than Elites have.... It gives options for all people equally.

[KruzeKrazy!]

The point of a cross-line loyalty program would be to encourage pax of one company line to, if not sailing on the same line again, to sail on another company line rather on a competitors' (within acceptable margin parameters).

It would not be to enhance benefits of the current intra-line programs. But ideally it would not alienate current pax more than it gains in retained incremental inter-company $ so as to have a net gain versus a net decline on profit contribution.

[Pam in CA]

[quote name='cruzsnooze']I still think the threshold for making elite needs to go up to at least 175 nights or 200 nights. When you go to the elite happy hour and are 100th in line for a appetizer you realize elite is close to worthless.[/QUOTE]I don't think the days sailed needs to be increased but rather levels should be based on days sailed only. When it's based on # of cruises, it's biased towards people living near FLL and LA who can take the short cruises without the expense of flying. FYI, this wouldn't affect me as I earned Elite years ago by days sailed. It just seems fairer to me if the purpose is loyalty.

The Platinum/Elite "lounge" is not just for Elite... It includes Platinum as well. With the short cruises and subsequent ballooning numbers of Platinum and Elite, it's no longer unusual to have well over 1,000 or over 50% of the passengers eligible. Hence, the long lines.

As for airline FF programs, don't throw them away! I've flown quite a few times in the last two years using miles: First Class LAX > Beijing, First Class LAX > Venice, Biz Class LAX > Copenhagen, and return flights. A conservative guess is that represents well over $50,000 if I were paying for these flights. Pretty darned good ROI. They have made it possible for me to cruise economically and have great cruises. Edited November 27, 2014 by Pam in CA

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='Hawaiidan']...You may think ridiculous what many have reaped tens of thousands of dollars worth of benefits year after year. And there are literal millions of of travelers just like me that love the programs. Hey I am flying rt to Australia business next month for $11.50pp ( a $6900.00 ticket)
Sorry that you can't see that as worth the effort...[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing you fly far more than I do, are able to use one carrier or its partners primarily, and are rewarded with big savings as a result. If that were the case with me, I might still pay attention to the airline programs.

I gave up on the airlines' programs when I stopped being able to get awards. I lost a bunch of miles on United, for example, when I didn't fly or redeem for 18 months. I wanted to, but their paid fares to the destinations I wanted to travel to were much higher than the competition, and they had no award seats available in the window of time I needed to travel. There is also the fact that they keep changing the metrics. A seat that used to require 50K miles is now 75K, but they will gladly "sell" you miles to make up the difference.

I just hope CCL doesn't move to something so complex. As another poster pointed out, many airline seats are sold to business travelers; most cruise tickets to vacationers who might not travel often enough to gain benefits and are left feeling alienated by the cruise lines.

I now fly so little (by choice), that the miles I earn don't really matter. I realize YMMV ;). Edited November 27, 2014 by Ryndam2002
spelling

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='KruzeKrazy!']The point of a cross-line loyalty program would be to encourage pax of one company line to, if not sailing on the same line again, to sail on another company line rather on a competitors' (within acceptable margin parameters).

It would not be to enhance benefits of the current intra-line programs. But ideally it would not alienate current pax more than it gains in retained incremental inter-company $ so as to have a net gain versus a net decline on profit contribution.[/QUOTE]

I hope this will be the outcome of any change. I get the idea of cross-line loyalty. If a Princess Elite is considering a cruise on HAL or Celebrity, for example, they will choose HAL to get equivalent cross-line perks. My concern is that with the ballooning numbers of Platinum and Elites, that CCL or Princess will decide to "water down" the perks in the process.

[nasa1974]

[quote name='Pam in CA']I don't think the days sailed needs to be increased but rather levels should be based on days sailed only. When it's based on # of cruises, it's biased towards people living near FLL and LA who can take the short cruises without the expense of flying. FYI, this wouldn't affect me as I earned Elite years ago by days sailed. It just seems fairer to me if the purpose is loyalty.[/QUOTE]

Pam I agree. Whether it is days or # of cruises it still benefits the FLL or LA folks that take the short cruises. I will not take a short cruise because it is not cost affective. It costs me $500-$1000 in airfare plus a hotel stay the night before. I'm not paying that for a $300 cruise.

But we don't cruise for the status. We cruise to meet nice people, see some beautiful places and relax. The perks are nice but that's not why we cruise.

Marty

[caribill]

[quote name='Pam in CA']

As for airline FF programs, don't throw them away! I've flown quite a few times in the last two years using miles: First Class LAX > Beijing, First Class LAX > Venice, Biz Class LAX > Copenhagen, and return flights. A conservative guess is that represents well over $50,000 if I were paying for these flights. Pretty darned good ROI. They have made it possible for me to cruise economically and have great cruises.[/quote]

It is not a case of throwing away the airline FF programs, it is a case of are they still good for the vacation traveler anymore.

Previously: Pay $310 for an ecomomy class trip round trip booked well in advance JFK - LAX and get 4950 miles. Under the new programs, you would get 1550 miles. (Actual price with this route for flights starting in late January).

So, for a vacation traveler such as yourself who books flights in advance, that is a 68% reduction in miles earned.

However, a person who books the same flights at the last minute (as many business travelers do) would pay $911 and currently get 4950 miles, but under the new programs would get 4555 miles. (Actual price with this route for flights starting tomorrow.)

(Of course, if you have elite status with the airlines, you will get a higher number of miles for the same flights in the same seats for the same fare).

The airlines are not doing this for any reason other than to save money. Less miles given = less free trips to give in the future.

How long would it take you under the new plan to get the number of free flights you were able to take with the miles earned with the old plan in the past two years?

Switching to this type of plan for cruise lines would basically reduce most cruisers' status to nothing. Edited November 28, 2014 by caribill

[Lovetocruiseprincess]

[quote name='Iamcruzin']Thank you and to add I'm not spending $3000 on board to gain one point. For far less than $3000 I could just toss my cloths at the end of the cruise and buy new ones. I'm not spending that kind of money to have a few pair of underwear washed and/or be able to jump ahead of the tender line. If the incentive program is too complex nobody will buy into it and it will fail.[/quote]

Looks like we'll be getting .00001 points for our latest cruise. :D

[Hawaiidan]

I made it a science to study rewards programs and 20 years ago decided to concentrate ALL my flying on I airline united and ALL my hotels with marriotts.
I got several credit cards for my self and my wife each time earning 30,000 to 60,000 miles each. Using these cards if you spend even $1 a year it preserves your points miles for ever...no expiration
Some of these cards included annual 2 for 1 tickets every year. Too living in Hawaii for 10 years, meant that to go anywhere you have to fly to LA of further.
Yes United cost many times more. However, I found that overall it was far more profitable and I saved more than if I had gone for the cheap fare. Penny wise over the years proved pound foolish. Too it used to be easy to be a premier just going to the doctor or visiting family. It also allowed me to fly over 1,000,000 miles and life time premier status.

Second I shifted 99% away from cash or checks and charged everything on a airline card.. taxes, cars, insurance, mortgage ,food, gas, medical, clothes...everything and just had it auto-paid in full at the end of the month.
Cruises were always charged on United or Marriott I took advantage of special points deals. When I used points I found a way of buying more miles at a rate 1/4 of what it cost to earn... So for may years my free trips were actually only 75% off. But knowing inflation I saved and maxed out my potential... Now retired I can go any where at any time pretty much for ever and not pay todays much higher fares with pounds I earned from now devalued dollars.....

So like others I spend just normal things for daily living and maybe 2 or 3 vacations a year ..... some short like 4 days some longer like 45 day.
Air fare wise 24 months I got flights to Tahiti ( 3400), Santiago(1800), Buenos Aires 1800, New York 2400 and LA( 2400)= $11,800 all free and in first class. And in the next 12 mos flying to Aisia and Australia a saving of $18,200
Earily boarding, a special meal, priority tender are rewards to me meaningless
give me hard cash dollars in the pocket not something I could do for free.

Now....you, yes you ! can do this. Just by adopting a plan sticking to it, even if you fly once a year... but buy a quart of milk or a pair of shoes or toothpaste. Make every dollar. Make every penny a return more than the value of what you bought. All you have to do is start.

[Loonbeam]

There is one thing you didn't factor in (that I can tell) which is the deflation of mile value. United, for example, just raised the amounts of miles it takes for some tickets, as well as some +cash fees.

Your premise is not wrong, but I have found the generic points cards that you can use to pay for trips may be better options (Chase Sapphire for example). You get bonus points across a broader spectrum, even if not as good of a rate.

And of course, you have to keep a clean balance, otherwise any value is immediately lost in interest.

[quote name='Hawaiidan']I made it a science to study rewards programs and 20 years ago decided to concentrate ALL my flying on I airline united and ALL my hotels with marriotts.
I got several credit cards for my self and my wife each time earning 30,000 to 60,000 miles each. Using these cards if you spend even $1 a year it preserves your points miles for ever...no expiration
Some of these cards included annual 2 for 1 tickets every year. Too living in Hawaii for 10 years, meant that to go anywhere you have to fly to LA of further.
Yes United cost many times more. However, I found that overall it was far more profitable and I saved more than if I had gone for the cheap fare. Penny wise over the years proved pound foolish. Too it used to be easy to be a premier just going to the doctor or visiting family. It also allowed me to fly over 1,000,000 miles and life time premier status.

Second I shifted 99% away from cash or checks and charged everything on a airline card.. taxes, cars, insurance, mortgage ,food, gas, medical, clothes...everything and just had it auto-paid in full at the end of the month.
Cruises were always charged on United or Marriott I took advantage of special points deals. When I used points I found a way of buying more miles at a rate 1/4 of what it cost to earn... So for may years my free trips were actually only 75% off. But knowing inflation I saved and maxed out my potential... Now retired I can go any where at any time pretty much for ever and not pay todays much higher fares with pounds I earned from now devalued dollars.....

So like others I spend just normal things for daily living and maybe 2 or 3 vacations a year ..... some short like 4 days some longer like 45 day.
Air fare wise 24 months I got flights to Tahiti ( 3400), Santiago(1800), Buenos Aires 1800, New York 2400 and LA( 2400)= $11,800 all free and in first class. And in the next 12 mos flying to Aisia and Australia a saving of $18,200
Earily boarding, a special meal, priority tender are rewards to me meaningless
give me hard cash dollars in the pocket not something I could do for free.

Now....you, yes you ! can do this. Just by adopting a plan sticking to it, even if you fly once a year... but buy a quart of milk or a pair of shoes or toothpaste. Make every dollar. Make every penny a return more than the value of what you bought. All you have to do is start.[/quote]

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='Loonbeam']There is one thing you didn't factor in (that I can tell) which is the deflation of mile value. United, for example, just raised the amounts of miles it takes for some tickets, as well as some +cash fees...[/QUOTE]

That, and it got to the point it seemed almost impossible (when I was still playing the game) to get seats when I did have the miles. I suspect those who do well with these programs are retired or have very flexible schedules. My job for years required vacation days to be requested a year in advance.

I now fly so little (once or twice a year), that I just go for the best fare/schedule combo and no longer track miles since they now expire. I do get Hawaiidan's point about putting all purchases on a card that gives points or miles. I put mine on a card that refunds in cash instead. If I still flew frequently, I might look into changing.

IMO, the best frequent-flier program was TWA. Low mileage requirements for coach seats, with $100/segment upgrades to first when available, and the miles never expired. Too bad the carrier did. Edited November 28, 2014 by Ryndam2002
clarity