Elevator etiquette?

[scifimonkey]

Non of these beat the latest selfish act witnessed this year on an S class ship.

Apparently by pressing a combination of buttons it is possible to override the stop instructions from landings enabling the occupant to go direct to the next stop input in the car. Ever wondered why almost empty lifts go sailing past you? Could be the reason! Will not post the code as I was appalled and would not wish anyone else to start doing it. I would not think of doing it even though I now know.

[Beanb41]

unfortunately as reported in today's NZ press an 88 year old on a mobility scooter decided to argue with a truck with disasterous consequences

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/63546140/Katikati-scooter-rider-dies-after-crash

 

It goes someway to reinforcing my point.

 

My argument is not one of fit people versus unfit or immoblie but one of consideration or lack therof.

[pcur]

At the risk of getting flamed those who are requiring mobility scooters to get around should in my view take second dibs on lifts and elevators. These scooters take up the room of about 4 people. One wonders how they fit into the fit for travel category as far as the contract goes. I guess that if we are ever in another Concordia situation these infirmed become colaterral damage. My experience of mobility scooter riders in mall and on the streets are that in the main they are inconsiderate and oblivious to the more mobile persons around them . They expect to have an absolute rite of passage wherever they go. I will now put on my flameproof suit and carry a fire extinguisher

 

What you may not realize is that in the US it's a FEDERAL LAW that handicapped people get priority on all modes of transportation. Since RCCL and Celebrity are home-officed in the US, those laws apply on their ships.

 

They expect to have the right of way, because they DO have the right of way.

[GUT2407]

Originally Posted by Beanb41

At the risk of getting flamed those who are requiring mobility scooters to get around should in my view take second dibs on lifts and elevators. These scooters take up the room of about 4 people. One wonders how they fit into the fit for travel category as far as the contract goes. I guess that if we are ever in another Concordia situation these infirmed become colaterral damage. My experience of mobility scooter riders in mall and on the streets are that in the main they are inconsiderate and oblivious to the more mobile persons around them . They expect to have an absolute rite of passage wherever they go. I will now put on my flameproof suit and carry a fire extinguisher

 

So if you've got a disability you should just lock yourself away and give up on life, please give me a break.

[phoenix_dream]

What you may not realize is that in the US it's a FEDERAL LAW that handicapped people get priority on all modes of transportation. Since RCCL and Celebrity are home-officed in the US, those laws apply on their ships.

 

They expect to have the right of way, because they DO have the right of way.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but this is something I certainly did not realize (although I would practice it anyway). My understanding is that there are many rules making public transportation accessible, but I do not recall ever reading anything saying someone handicapped needs to get priority. Can you please point me to where this is stated? thank you

[Beanb41]

What you may not realize is that in the US it's a FEDERAL LAW that handicapped people get priority on all modes of transportation. Since RCCL and Celebrity are home-officed in the US, those laws apply on their ships.

 

They expect to have the right of way, because they DO have the right of way.

 

Celebrity ships or at the new ones are registered in Malta and are those subject to Maltese laws and also the laws of the country they are in at the time. Unlike military ships commercial liners do not have sovereign protection ie commercial ships registered in one country and owned by a company in another do have sovereignty. This said these ships are not subject to US Federal law whilst outside US Federal jurisdiction.

 

If those driving mobility scooters afforded those around them the same courtesy they would like then I am sure in the main it would be reciprocated. Unfortunately my experience is they don't hence the issues raised in the initial post have developed

[cle-guy]

What you may not realize is that in the US it's a FEDERAL LAW that handicapped people get priority on all modes of transportation. Since RCCL and Celebrity are home-officed in the US, those laws apply on their ships.

 

They expect to have the right of way, because they DO have the right of way.

 

I kind of doubt this is true.

 

Otherwise all ship staff would need paid minimum wage, and be limited in work hours, and be paid overtime wages after a 40 hour workweek. None of this happens.

[pcur]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but this is something I certainly did not realize (although I would practice it anyway). My understanding is that there are many rules making public transportation accessible, but I do not recall ever reading anything saying someone handicapped needs to get priority. Can you please point me to where this is stated? thank you

 

I'm applying the same laws of other modes of transportation to elevators on cruise ships. Maybe I'm stretching, but I don't think so.

 

Anyway, here's the current law:

 

Seats

 

T203.10.1 clarifies the scoping requirements for the number and location of priority seats for passengers with disabilities on vehicles operated in fixed route systems. At least two seats must be designated as priority seats for passengers with disabilities. The seats must be located as near as practicable to a doorway that is used for both boarding and alighting.

 

It's the doorway proximity that I focus on.

 

As far as right of way in hallways and the Promenade, I found this in an article regarding service dogs, but it's not talking about individuals with dogs, but pedestrians and wheelchairs or disable people:

 

42-4-808. Drivers and pedestrians, other than persons in wheelchairs, to yield to persons with disabilities.

(1) Any pedestrian, other than a person in a wheelchair, or any driver of a vehicle who approaches a person who has an obviously apparent disability of blindness, deafness, or mobility impairment shall immediately come to a full stop and take such precautions before proceeding as are necessary to avoid an accident or injury to said person. A disability shall be deemed to be obviously apparent if, by way of example and without limitation, the person is using a cane or crutches, is assisted by an assistance dog, as defined in section 24-34-803 (7), C.R.S., is being assisted by another person, is in a wheelchair, or is walking with an obvious physical impairment. Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic offense.

 

Of course, there's no one around to ticket someone with the class A traffic offense on a cruise ship, so as you already stated: we should practice common sense and courtesy.

[pcur]

Celebrity ships or at the new ones are registered in Malta and are those subject to Maltese laws and also the laws of the country they are in at the time. Unlike military ships commercial liners do not have sovereign protection ie commercial ships registered in one country and owned by a company in another do have sovereignty. This said these ships are not subject to US Federal law whilst outside US Federal jurisdiction.

 

We can disagree on this one. If there is any serious crime committed on an RCCL or Celebrity ship, the US home offices are notified, and the FBI are notified, too. That's where I base my opinion that other US laws are most likely followed on board the ships.

 

Not to mentioned I've been sailing on RCCL for over 40 years, and their policies, rules, and regulations are virtually identical to many in the US.

Edited November 26, 2014 by pcur

[pcur]

I kind of doubt this is true.

 

Otherwise all ship staff would need paid minimum wage, and be limited in work hours, and be paid overtime wages after a 40 hour workweek. None of this happens.

 

I said they are home OFFICE based, not registered in the US.

[pcur]

I'm with you. My fear of heights is getting worse as I get older. :( I will not step on that glass at the back of the elevator, or the glass floor at the top of the CN Tower. What I do is explain to those getting on and everyone so far has been understanding.

 

As for the original post of letting people out of the elevator first - it's only common sense to let the people out first. Another thing lacking in society today along with manners.

 

We still tease my older son about his trip up the Sears Tower with his younger brother to go out on the "glass balcony". He stuck his head out, said, "Yup, I'm here", and popped back in immediately. Younger son went out for several minutes with no problem. I would have a panic attack if I had to do that. I get REALLY nervous going up the ship's gangways in port if the tide has risen and it's a climb.

[CRUZBUDS]

I said they are home OFFICE based, not registered in the US.

 

I don't think it makes any difference where the home office is --- its where the ships are registered.

 

Malta had been the country of record for Celebrity for some time :)

Edited November 26, 2014 by CRUZBUDS

[cle-guy]

I said they are home OFFICE based, not registered in the US.

 

But logically speaking, why would they have to follow the laws as to priority elevating, but not he laws of Minimum wage, overtime and overtime laws.

 

I made no mention of where they are registered (although another poster did) I was just extrapolating the comments that as 'they are home OFFICE based, the ships have to follow ADA laws', why then do they not also have to follow the US Wage and Labor laws?

 

I DO think the ships often try very hard to follow local custom, and "do the right thing", and perhaps membership in certain trusted professional organizations may require they provide reasonable accommodations which looks a lot like "following the US laws".

 

I do know that another line, I forget which one, I think maybe NCL, has a single US-flagged ship and therefore can do certain routes in and around Hawaii that others can not (i.e. not visiting a 'distant foreign port' before returning to Hawaii), and in that case they do have to follow US wage standards. So given that, I do think there may be something to where a ship is flagged out of as to what laws it operates within as the other poster surmised.

[jayoldschool]

I'll lighten the mood a bit with a story. On one of our cruises, there was a group of early teens that turned elevator riding into a sport. They weren't going anywhere, they just ran on and off elevators, riding around. It was difficult at busy times to get an elevator. One evening, on formal night, we were alone in one of the glass elevators. I could see that we were about to stop for the elevator sport team. There were no adults waiting to board. I decided to take action. I told my wife, "get ready", and she just looked at me with a smile. As the elevator slowed, my wife moved right to the door to exit before the group rushed in (they usually never waited for people to disembark). I stayed near the rear of the elevator. As the elevator stopped, I left a large, lingering present for the next occupants. Doors opened, wife disembarked, and I slipped past the boarding hoard. Doors closed, elevator began to ascend, and we both burst out laughing as the teens were making gagging faces as they rode the stink box, trapped, until the next time the doors opened. Revenge was sweet... just not for them.

Edited November 26, 2014 by jayoldschool

[Beanb41]

There is a reason why ships fly "flags of convenience" and in most cases the reasons are:

1. The safety rules are more relaxed

2. The labour laws are more relaxed

3. Compliance costs are cheaper

4. Not bound by some countries archaic federal / local laws

[4774Papa]

I'll lighten the mood a bit with a story. On one of our cruises, there was a group of early teens that turned elevator riding into a sport. They weren't going anywhere, they just ran on and off elevators, riding around. It was difficult at busy times to get an elevator. One evening, on formal night, we were alone in one of the glass elevators. I could see that we were about to stop for the elevator sport team. There were no adults waiting to board. I decided to take action. I told my wife, "get ready", and she just looked at me with a smile. As the elevator slowed, my wife moved right to the door to exit before the group rushed in (they usually never waited for people to disembark). I stayed near the rear of the elevator. As the elevator stopped, I left a large, lingering present for the next occupants. Doors opened, wife disembarked, and I slipped past the boarding hoard. Doors closed, elevator began to ascend, and we both burst out laughing as the teens were making gagging faces as they rode the stink box, trapped, until the next time the doors opened. Revenge was sweet... just not for them.

I assume that the revenge was like what happened in the campfire scene in the movie "Blazing Saddles?"

[junetraveler2014]

I forgot to mention what I beleive to be the very worst elevator manners..the big squeeze. That is what I call the situation in which folks insist on squeezing into an elevator when it is obviously already packed to capacity.

 

I tend to be claustrophobic anyway and when folks jam themselves into an already packed elevator I can hardly breathe. I have actually left an elevator when too many people selfishly pack in.

When I first got the "BIG" Job in NYC I was given lots of papers to read and sign. One was a sheet on elevator etiquette. It read " enter on left, exit on right, move clockwise when others enter." Sign that you have read this document and understand it fully. I signed and put it on my supervisor's desk. Lunch time came, went to get on the elevator as instructed and almost got killed by the mob pushing into the middle saying "Make a Hole" while pushing the air out of me. :eek: There is no etiquette if there are no manners and I am finding the older I get, the less I see of people with manners!:(

[Baymax]

What you may not realize is that in the US it's a FEDERAL LAW that handicapped people get priority on all modes of transportation. Since RCCL and Celebrity are home-officed in the US, those laws apply on their ships.

 

They expect to have the right of way, because they DO have the right of way.

 

Misinformation! This is not because of their head offices' location. There was a case years ago that reached the Supreme Court of the United States of America. While I will not go over the full details of the case because you have the ability to research this on your own, the verdict of the case stated that all foreign flagged vessels stopping at a United States port of call (including homeport) is required to be in full compliance of the Americans with Disabilities Act. This is the reason we have begun to see ADA modified accessible staterooms.

[Baymax]

At the risk of getting flamed those who are requiring mobility scooters to get around should in my view take second dibs on lifts and elevators. These scooters take up the room of about 4 people. One wonders how they fit into the fit for travel category as far as the contract goes. I guess that if we are ever in another Concordia situation these infirmed become colaterral damage. My experience of mobility scooter riders in mall and on the streets are that in the main they are inconsiderate and oblivious to the more mobile persons around them . They expect to have an absolute rite of passage wherever they go. I will now put on my flameproof suit and carry a fire extinguisher

 

I'm extremely curious if you would have the same thought process if you were confined to a wheelchair or electric conveyance vehicle. As I'm sure you aren't aware because you aren't confined to one, a great majority of passengers on all cruise lines try to close the doors, race those in a wheelchair, refuse to move over and attempt other various measures to prevent a guest with a disability from making their way to their new destination. There could be times where it may take an unfortunately high number of elevators to pass by until you're able to get on one because of other passengers. One other notable mention, many of those doing so are able bodied and wouldn't have difficulty using stairs for two decks. I understand some disabilities are invisible, but there are more able bodied passengers than those with an invisible disability.

 

Unless you are confined to a wheelchair or ECV or travel with someone who requires the use of one, you don't know what it is like to travel that way and you should consider yourself lucky. Many of those with disabilities would never wish their disability on their worst enemy.

[gek]

When a ship is sailing in a country's territorial waters all local laws apply. Once in international waters, the laws of the country whose flag the ship flies are in force.

 

However when a lawsuit is taken out against a cruiseline almost anything is possible. This is particularly the case when local laws conflict with the laws of the country where the ship is registered.

 

So in the example of giving right of way to a mobility scooter, this may not apply in international waters, but if someone decides to sue as a result of someone not adhering to these rules then who knows what the courts will rule.

Edited November 26, 2014 by gek

[cle-guy]

When a ship is sailing in a country's territorial waters all local laws apply. Once in international waters, the laws of the country whose flag the ship flies are in force.

 

However when a lawsuit is taken out against a cruiseline almost anything is possible. This is particularly the case when local laws conflict with the laws of the country where the ship is registered.

 

So in the example of giving right of way to a mobility scooter, this may not apply in international waters, but if someone decides to sue as a result of someone not adhering to these rules then who knows what the courts will rule.

 

So if what you say is true, what aren't ship staff being paid US minimum wage, and overtime rates "When a ship is sailing in a country's territorial waters" of the USA?

 

Or why aren't any gay staff members on ships jailed when a ship docks in Jamaica?

 

Or why aren't passengers with camouflage clothing on the ship who are not also police or military on certain caribbean islands not arrested for having that contraband?

 

I'm really trying to figure out how 1 law applies, yet another doesn't, based on on the argument of Flagging, versus territorial waters.

[gek]

So if what you say is true, what aren't ship staff being paid US minimum wage, and overtime rates "When a ship is sailing in a country's territorial waters" of the USA?

 

Or why aren't any gay staff members on ships jailed when a ship docks in Jamaica?

 

Or why aren't passengers with camouflage clothing on the ship who are not also police or military on certain caribbean islands not arrested for having that contraband?

 

I'm really trying to figure out how 1 law applies, yet another doesn't, based on on the argument of Flagging, versus territorial waters.

 

Having laws apply and enforcing those laws are of course two different things. I'm sure if they wanted to local authorities could board a ship and arrest any number of passengers for any number of local offences. If "whistling on a Tuesday" is illegal then they could force their way on board and arrest guest entertainer "Whistling Joe Nightingale" during his matinee family show. However I imagine they would require some sort of warrant making enforcement more trouble than it is worth.

 

The powers of local authorities would also be limited by various international maritime conventions (assuming the country is a signatory). I imagine one of these conventions would apply when labour laws are questioned.

Edited November 26, 2014 by gek

[gek]

So if what you say is true, what aren't ship staff being paid US minimum wage, and overtime rates "When a ship is sailing in a country's territorial waters" of the USA?

 

 

Just on this issue, I've just found an article about an incident in Brazil where local authorities boarded a MSC ship and "rescued" 11 crew members. Interesting reading:

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/cruise-labor-under-spotlight-after-brazil-accuses-ship-subjecting-staff-slave-conditions-1568709

[Eliz]

We still tease my older son about his trip up the Sears Tower with his younger brother to go out on the "glass balcony". He stuck his head out, said, "Yup, I'm here", and popped back in immediately. Younger son went out for several minutes with no problem. I would have a panic attack if I had to do that. I get REALLY nervous going up the ship's gangways in port if the tide has risen and it's a climb.

 

I can't wait to (hopefully) step out into that box. I live just north of the city and haven't made it down there yet. I love the glass elevators on the S-class ships and immediately step back to stand on the glass floor. However, when a regular elevator gets crowded I find the claustrophobia kicking in. I can imagine the glass floor is unnerving if you have a fear of heights.

[just4steven]

My tip - it is amazing how people change their behavior if you walk around constantly holding up your GoPro or video camera of choice and make it clear you are recording. Most of the time it is like in instant and easy attitude adjuster. And for the times that the attitude adjusting doesn't work for the people SUPER intoxicated, well, you have some precious youtube video that is guaranteed to average a thousand hits an hour if you use tags like "carnival ship, spaz, fight, drunk, walmart" and so on. Seriously, try it and watch how people change their behavior for the better! Works like a charm!