Another lie from Celebrity, re: Silhouette

[twosit]

I'm on the silhouette now in San Juan. Initially we were told because of the propulsion issue we would miss San Juan, then on the first day at sea the captain announced that we had to return to Miami because of a sick passenger and ears now 7 hours behind schedule, but they hoped to make this up. On Tuesday the captain announced that because of the rough sea we were unable to make up the time and we would now be docking in the morning in San Juan, spending the day there and not be stopping in St Kitts.

Just posting this for informational purposes. I really have not noticed rough seas. I believe there is an unusually strong diesel odor in the aft area. This change doesn't matter to us but we are bringing a bunch of friends next week and it would be a bummer to miss ports with them as they are looking forward to the stops.

[cle-guy]

Can I assume from your response that you are a Celebrity employee with the facts of the November cruise at your fingertips? You don't mention if the Silhouette left port early on occassions to try to meet its arrival times.

 

 

No not an employee, just a passenger with reading comprehension and an ability to interpret that if 1 sailing of the Silliouhette has only 30 minute delays in some ports, while another has 2 hour delays, then it is possible to reach the ports in a timely manner, but for issues unrelated to propulsion issues, using standard deductive reasoning, and process of elimination.

 

Of course I suppose there could be a conspiracy at work whereby they chose to slow things down even further for your particular cruise, you know - just because, and then let the subsequent cruise operate on time.

 

We did not leave ports early, arrived in COZ, Falmouth, and FLL on time, had 30 minute arrival delay to Grand Cayman and Labadee.

 

I'm assuming you are discussing the Eastern Caribbean itinerary, whereby they may have been counting on currents to help the ship move above 17 knots, as evidenced by the letter from the Captain in post 114 in this thread, however as per the letter they weather and currents were not helping, but hindering that plan.

 

I also agree with your officers stating the ship goes only 17 knots, this has been official word all summer long, and what I experienced myself on this sailing. 17 knots is the top, reduced, speed the ship can comfortably sail at at this time. It is the speed our ship sailed at most times when not raveling certain distances at lower speeds. Max sped is 25 knots when all is in good order, and ships rarely sail for any extend amount of time at max speed.

 

I certainly don't mind if you want to wait for the response from the official celebrity rep, however I imagine you will wait forever for celebrity to reply to your post, as their initial reply was very elegant and simple in explaining the issues. As was the letter from the captain. But you are choosing to not accept the response. In any case, not really sure what value their reply would be, as the sailing is complete and nothing they can say will change what has been done. Uless you are just anting to be able to say "see I told you so! I Was right, you were wrong!" :rolleyes:

 

Good news, is, this itinerary is no longer sailing until after the issues are resolved (but of the current sailing, which has had a medical emergency in addition to rather and propulsion issues).

 

Bottom line, never sail an itinerary expecting to sail that itinerary. Things happen, be prepared for changes, cancellations, and variances. I've been fortunate to not have had any port cancellations yet, though I have had 2 cruses canceled outright. One just has to roll with it, or find another mode of taking a vacation that isn't subject to so many variables and factors.

[candhu18]

Thanks for the information. May I ask when you arrived? I would much rather have visited San Juan than St Kitts. Lucky you (after a fashion). I do hope your second cruise causes you no problems. As far as I am aware Celebrity leave Cozumel for Grand Caymen a couple of hours early and that brings down the average speed required to around 17 knots for that section.

 

Again wishing you and your friends the best of cruising. I know it may not seem it but I do like Celebrity cruises; I have another booked for next June.

[candhu18]

Celebrity's post 64 refers to a 27 November sailing which was from St Maarten's back to Florida.

 

You state that this 17 knots has been known about all summer long.

Two points - When we asked our TA about this in late August they told us that there had been no word from Celebrity about any aziopod problem. Secondly 900 nautical miles divided by 17 knots leaves us arriving late in San Juan (5-6 hours late). So you are saying Celebrity knew all along we would arrive late in San Juan.

 

When you add on your early departure time to the late arrival time I think you will find that it corresponds with the 17 knots.

Edited December 10, 2014 by candhu18

[Charles4515]

Thanks for the information. May I ask when you arrived? I would much rather have visited San Juan than St Kitts. Lucky you (after a fashion). I do hope your second cruise causes you no problems. As far as I am aware Celebrity leave Cozumel for Grand Caymen a couple of hours early and that brings down the average speed required to around 17 knots for that section.

 

Again wishing you and your friends the best of cruising. I know it may not seem it but I do like Celebrity cruises; I have another booked for next June.

 

Also on Silhouette now. We arrived at 7:00 am. Able to get off at 8:00. All aboard is 6:45 pm. I would have preferred St Kitts. But it is what it is. Lucky that there was an open dock at Old San Juan. Also proves that Celebrity will try to find an alternative.

 

We didn't have 20 foot swells but sea was not calm.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Charles4515

[cle-guy]

Celebrity's post 64 refers to a 27 November sailing which was from St Maarten's back to Florida.

 

You state that this 17 knots has been known about all summer long.

Two points - When we asked our TA about this in late August they told us that there had been no word from Celebrity about any aziopod problem. Secondly 900 nautical miles divided by 17 knots leaves us arriving late in San Juan (5-6 hours late). So you are saying Celebrity knew all along we would arrive late in San Juan.

 

When you add on your early departure time to the late arrival time I think you will find that it corresponds with the 17 knots.

 

We did not leave early. we arrived 30 minutes late.

 

It's well documented in these forums about the 17 knot issue being around all summer. That your TA isn't well versed in this issue isn't really important, I wouldn't expect a TA to know every minute detail of every cruise line or ship. TA's often miss bulletins and reminders from cruise lines, and in any case this is a relative non-issue.

 

Celebrity communicated directly with many travelers this summer with the ships itinerary modifications in Europe due to this issue. They have not hidden behind anything, they were up front with the communication. I even posted a few times regarding the issue as to if we might have a port canceled entirely on my sailing last week, but was lucky to find we only had 30 minute arrival delays in 2 ports, instead of an outright port cancellation.

 

I agree with you math that at flat 17kt propulsion, the journey is 53 hours. But with currents assisting, that time can be cut down and speed enhanced, and as the letter in post 114 from the captain regarding San Juan (the 900 NM run to FLL) they were counting on currents to help move the ship, and those currents did not transpire. Typically weather has a big impact on currents. Therefore, weather impacted the trip planning, inasmuch as the propulsion issue did as well. Just like airlines can fly 737's from Europe to USA all summer, they can't do it reliably in the winter months due to the strong headwinds that often require a stop for fuel in Gander as they "cross the pond".

[jayoldschool]

Self absorbed, technically oblivious, and unappreciative first-worlder's... prepare your flamethrowers!

 

 

 

I won't dignify your post by quoting it in its entirety, but I will simply say that you are way off base. No one needs to apologize for being able to afford something. If I am sold something, I expect the product to be as advertised. Simple as that.

[cle-guy]

I won't dignify your post by quoting it in its entirety, but I will simply say that you are way off base. No one needs to apologize for being able to afford something. If I am sold something, I expect the product to be as advertised. Simple as that.

 

And you received it. You paid for a cruise to get you from point A to Point B, the details of which had a plan, and a contract guaranteeing many rights and exceptions, among those being that an itinerary is subject to change for any reason at any time.

 

You got from A to B, and you also got to experience the changes that are allowed in the agreement for the item you purchased, rather than the initial plan. Simple as that.

Edited December 10, 2014 by cle-guy

[candhu18]

I'm not sure why you would expect assistance from currents. Since the area around the Caribbean is the start of the Gulf stream that ends thousands of miles north and east, I would expect the currents in that area always to be against any travel from Florida in a SE direction. This is why it is important that Celebrity address these issues; they should be the experts.

 

We specifically asked our TA and they were adament that Celebrity had not informed them of any problems.

 

Here is photo of the sea on 25 November. Notice no big waves.

Edited December 10, 2014 by candhu18

[cle-guy]

I

We specifically asked our TA and they were adament that Celebrity had not informed them of any problems.

 

The problems were public information as early as July of this year, as confirmed here:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5912

 

on July 12, 2014, by Celebrity Cruises spokeswoman, Stephanie Holder.

 

Sounds like your TA needs to do a bit more research and follow the industry a bit more to provide better service to their clients. It was posted in all the cruise related news sources, to list but a few:

 

http://www.travelagentcentral.com/ocean-cruises/celebrity-silhouette-slowed-propulsion-problem-46926

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2014/07/articles/passenger-rights/propulsion-problems-plague-celebrity-silhouette/

 

http://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/how-silhouettes-propulsion-issues-are-affecting-itineraries.html

 

http://www.cruisearabiaonline.com/News/2014/07/13/Celebrity-Silhouette-forced-to-cut-port-times-due-to-propulsion-issue-in-Mediterranean

[tysver]

First of all, don't lecture about how we should be grateful. You be grateful, let others feel like they wish. We were lied to, my TA was lied to, and getting to San Juan won't be a problem after Jan 14, when the dry dock is scheduled to fix the problem. Why didn't they just take San Juan off the list for the three Eastern trips before dry dock? I was on the Nov 23-30 trip, would have been no big deal. Look at the ship speeds yestereday, 15.2 knots cruising in 10K winds, very calm day. Every other ship in the area was running 19 to 19.3 k. Hard to make up 15% loss of power when they put San Juan so far away from Ft. Lauderdale. We could have stayed in St. Kitts an extra four hours as St. Maarten is only 50 miles away but we left on time, why? Need to get the casinos open for play and the shopping open. Don't cover for the cruise line. In today's environment any mention of speed problems, missing ports, and other issues make headlines and scares away timid passengers. They did lie and they will continue to and all I can do is keep writing and posting. Have a great trip and don't plan on calling home from PR on the 23 as we planned to just before T-Giving.

[tysver]

It was posted and a phone call was made to Celebrity. You didn't post what Celebrity was telling the TA's. They said they are aware of the problems but they had done the math and no port stops would be affected by the current problems on the ship.

[Islandbuoy]

My point was the inequity:

 

11/23 sailing--no advance notice-$12.50 adjustment

 

12/7 sailing -advance notice & $100 adjustment

 

hardly seems fair?

[excitedofharpenden]

It IS a problem with the Port in San Juan.

 

The problem is the port is too far for the ship to reach at the speed it is currently able to travel:).

Post of the month so far!

 

Phil

[PSUArch93]

My parents just called from San Juan. They are currently on the Silhouette and they have been told that the ship is currently experiencing engine problems. Apparently the ship has 6 engines and 1 is totally down. They are going to have to cut their ports of call short because the slower speeds are going to prevent them from reaching them all and be back in time for disembark. They were also told that the ship is schedule to be dry docked in january to fix the problems once and for all.

[candhu18]

Post 56 from scubagirl on this thread makes for interesting reading:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2132162&page=3

 

Apparently the go slow is only a precautionary measure. This captain ceratinly knows how to dig holes for Celebrity.

[cle-guy]

 

He admitted that Celebrity had reported the problem in July which resulted in the reports from online news. [Curious... I had overheard some passengers saying they read about it earlier than July. Did anyone hear this on this board?]

 

Yes, this has been discussed many times on Crusie critic, and a lot in my recent sailing's roll call.

 

Refer to my post number 135

 

The rumors were around prior to the official announcement as there had been prior schedule updates. July 12 seemed to be the day it was officially confirmed by Celebrity.

 

But I'm still of the mind, what does the reason for the changes do to affect anything. Whatever the reason,t he outcome is the same.

 

I also know that many crew members often think they know things and really don't have the right answers, as evidenced by the loads of staff who said Century was relocating to Venice when in fact it was being sold off. Or those who said Bistro on 5 was closing to become a Suite Dining room. Many in the hospitality business will say anything to appease a customer, knowing its not a huge thing. Many cultures that include staff ons hips don't allow them to say "i don't know" but insist they give an answer even if unreliable, as custom. I found this issue especially troublesome when doing business in Egypt.

 

1 of 4 engines is down, an azipod is not working, a technical issue MIGHT arise if they go too fast, whatever the reason, the ship is going slower than normal. The cause doesn't mater as to the effect in these instances.

 

Constellation has been running without one of its engines for a while, made its crossing, and got it repaired last week. Redundancy is built in.

Edited December 10, 2014 by cle-guy

[candhu18]

So the captain (Lekkas I presume) is now claiming that the manufacturers have advised throttling back the distressed engine as a precaution so as not to exceed a troublesome speed (presumably 17 knots). Therefore Celebrity knew all along that they coudn't make San Juan in the 47.5 hours allocated (including time to dock).

 

Bet I've got that wrong again.

[ghstudio]

The real issue here is whether Celebrity is legally required to tell you of a change in itinerary and when they must notify you. In conjunction with that, there is the question of whether Celebrity can continue to sell bookings based on an itinerary they know they can not deliver. Given the dates in previous posts, It certainly looks as if celebrity continued to sell bookings on cruises that they knew, or should have known, they couldn't deliver.

 

Those are legal questions and I suspect that they actually have violated some laws, perhaps EU laws if not US ones...but, keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer.

 

The question of corporate ethics is one that we can all wring our hands about...and the OBC's.....Celebrity is going to do what they want and even if we think they were wrong or untruthful or whatever, it's not going to change anything. It is what it is...(personally, I think it's wrong...but so what).

 

As I recall, you don't receive the "fine print" cruise documents until well after final payment. If celebrity knew of material changes to the cruise prior to your seeing the fine print, they can't hide behind that fine print.

 

Interesting situation.....

Edited December 10, 2014 by ghstudio

[richsea]

I think the horse is dead.

[Scrappy cruiser]

I think the horse is dead.

*Like*

[trio on the move]

We are on Sunday's sailing of Silhouette. Just called Celebrity to verify rumor about Puerto Rico being cancelled as a port stop. Yes, we are not stopping in San Juan, but they said it was "due to a problem in the port of San Juan"! Well, we all know it's due to the engine problems. We will get $100 OBC, Suites will get $200.

Why can't they just be honest?

 

We are sailing on the 21st of December and were told, when pressed, that Puerto Rico was cancelled because the ship has to travel at a lower speed so it won't make it in time - don't necessarily know if this is an engine problem - or wind/sea issues? Where did you hear about engine problems? I know that in October, Puerto Rico was also cancelled on the Silhouette for the same reason - slower speed - but I think it was due to weather.

[chicagopaul]

I know someone posted on here at the Silhouette is having a problem with one of their 6 engines. Ship aficionados correct me if I am wrong but I thought all S class ships only had 4 engines. Furthermore, I thought from most documentaries I have watched on the ships they typically only need to operate two engines to power the ship, for a/c, etc. Running additional engines typically is very expensive fuel wise.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[ghstudio]

I know someone posted on here at the Silhouette is having a problem with one of their 6 engines. Ship aficionados correct me if I am wrong but I thought all S class ships only had 4 engines. Furthermore, I thought from most documentaries I have watched on the ships they typically only need to operate two engines to power the ship, for a/c, etc. Running additional engines typically is very expensive fuel wise.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

I think the confusion is that people consider the azipods which are electric AND the generators which generate the electricity for them as "an engine".

 

As I read through this series of posts, I can't actually figure out if it's just one azipod or an azipod and one of the main generators that are not working correctly.

 

It doesn't actually matter...the result is that the ship can apparently only travel at reduced speed.

[TomTN]

I think the horse is dead.

 

:)Yup:eek:

Edited December 10, 2014 by TomBeckCruise