Celebrity Disappoints Big Time

[Christine Frances]

Oh they have already received the funds. No way AMEX would back out a charge if it hadn't already been hammered. They would simply cut the processing. The OP said the charge had been removed.

 

I agree. Amex had received the funds. Every time I disputed a credit card charge there was a long investigative process involved.

[fortinweb]

Oh they have already received the funds. No way AMEX would back out a charge if it hadn't already been hammered. They would simply cut the processing. The OP said the charge had been removed.

 

Not true at all. Credit Card companies are required by law to honor any charges made by one of their customers. They cannot stop the processing while it is still incomplete. They can, however, begin a dispute process after the charges have been posted to the customer's account. But they will never interfere with the initial processing of the charge.

 

I have recently been involved in this kind of situation on a home improvement project and know from experience what they can and cannot do.

 

I agree. Amex had received the funds. Every time I disputed a credit card charge there was a long investigative process involved.

 

Did you mean to say that Amex has PAID the funds? The investigation of a dispute occurs only AFTER the funds were paid, not before or during the processing.

Edited December 15, 2014 by fortinweb

[dileep]

Did you have the name of the Rep that promised the refund? I would have asked for them and made them explain why I wasn't receiving the refund.

 

Yes, I have the name of everyone I talked to. Nobody I have talked to disputes that a full refund is due, but they cannot explain why it is taking such a long time.

[Christine Frances]

What I meant is that Amex had rec'd the funds from Celebrity that is why they adjusted the OP's account. If there was an investigation, the bank would never remove the charge until after the investigation was complete. After all the claim may be denied.

[ECCruise]

Not true at all. Credit Card companies are required by law to honor any charges made by one of their customers. They cannot stop the processing while it is still incomplete. They can, however, begin a dispute process after the charges have been posted to the customer's account. But they will never interfere with the initial processing of the charge.

 

I have recently been involved in this kind of situation on a home improvement project and know from experience what they can and cannot do.

 

 

You are so wrong. This happened to me. Not last year, not last month. Today. This very afternoon.

 

You are mistaken.

 

In addition, I had an AMEX merchant processing account for many years. After the batch is closed, as it was in this case, the charge can be reversed. Yes, an investigation may ensue, but the charge will be reversed. The merchant will have a charge-back. It will then be reinstated if the dispute does not pan out.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ECCruise

[monicajay]

Yes, I have the name of everyone I talked to. Nobody I have talked to disputes that a full refund is due, but they cannot explain why it is taking such a long time.

 

I hope your refund comes soon. At least before your billing cycle is up. :rolleyes:

[fortinweb]

You are so wrong. This happened to me. Not last year, not last month. Today. This very afternoon.

 

You are mistaken.

 

In addition, I had an AMEX merchant processing account for many years. After the batch is closed, as it was in this case, the charge can be reversed. Yes, an investigation may ensue, but the charge will be reversed. The merchant will have a charge-back. It will then be reinstated if the dispute does not pan out.

 

Well, I am not stupid. I dealt with this situation three days ago. A contractor installing a water heater did not complete a job properly - something I did not discover until a few hours after he "finished" the job, took my card information and left (he had crossed the hot and cold water lines and we had only tepid water for showers). I contacted the card company and tried to stop the charge from being processed until the work was completed to my satisfaction. The card company would not stop processing the charge, and said all they could do by law was process the charge and then investigate after it posted to my account, at which time the charge would be removed from my account pending the results of the investigation.

 

Not sure what the difference between your situation and mine was. I tried to stop processing before the contractor's secretary submitted the charge to the card company. Perhaps in your case the charge had already posted and they immediately removed it pending an investigation. That is what I have experienced in the past. A couple of times I disputed a charge due to my card being hijacked, and they remove the charge until it was resolved. If they had found in the vendor's favor, they would have reinstated the charge and I would have had to pay it. Fortunately, they found in my favor, so I no longer had to deal with it as the card company would do whatever they needed to do on their end to resolve the issue.

 

What I meant is that Amex had rec'd the funds from Celebrity that is why they adjusted the OP's account. If there was an investigation, the bank would never remove the charge until after the investigation was complete. After all the claim may be denied.

 

As I mentioned above, if you dispute a charge, the card company will remove that charge from your account pending the result of the investigation. You do not have to pay for a disputed charge unless the investigation finds in favor of the vendor, at which time the charge will be reinstated to your account.

 

But my experience is in the US. Perhaps the laws are different in Canada.

Edited December 16, 2014 by fortinweb

[ECCruise]

OK

Does this look like the charge has already posted? Why do you want your ONE experience to trump my many years? Oh well.

 

12/15/2014 Pending BESTBUY.COM -$377.99

12/15/2014 Pending BESTBUY.COM $377.99

 

Note the date (today). Note the status (pending). Note the charge backed out.

 

I give up.

 

I take the OPs word for what happened. I would have done the same. If I cannot trust a multi-national, multi-billion dollar corporation with telling me the truth (or, if lying to me, making it good) then things are even worse than I thought.

[The_Big_M]

Some of us realize that there are always two sides to a story. Some, as you appear to be, always assume that the company is at fault, and the customer is being victimized due to deliberate deceit or, as your obvious bias makes clear you believe, "Just inept X/RCL financial policies and possibly inept employees".

 

Why is it wrong to state that it is ineptness? When that is the way things have been presented so far.

 

Do you believe that it is impossible for X to be inept?

 

If so, I can name a number of examples.

 

I certainly acknowledge there can be two sides to a story, and we only have one so far. I also haven't cast any blame either way based on that. However, you seem to give the impression that you won't accept that there can be any blame on Celebrity unless they come out with a statement from their side and admit it. Which clearly won't happen.

[mickeysgal]

In all my years here on cruise critic I have never heard of anyone getting a full refund past final payment and this close to sail date.

 

Seems like it would have been a whole lot easier and less messy financially to just hold the cabin. Now I want to know how to get Celebrity to do this for me should I ever need it. I'd love to be able to circumvent some of their written, contractual polices.

 

As far as the credit card charges, we too have disputed charges that they removed immediately, but it's always pending investigation which may nor may not go in your favor (and ultimately can get charged for the item in question). So having it initially removed is not an indicator that the charge was "right" or "wrong"...yet.

[fortinweb]

Why is it wrong to state that it is ineptness? When that is the way things have been presented so far.

 

Do you believe that it is impossible for X to be inept?

 

If so, I can name a number of examples.

 

I certainly acknowledge there can be two sides to a story, and we only have one so far. I also haven't cast any blame either way based on that. However, you seem to give the impression that you won't accept that there can be any blame on Celebrity unless they come out with a statement from their side and admit it. Which clearly won't happen.

 

If you are going to judge my position on this topic, read all my posts before doing so.

 

I never said that I didn't believe the OP. I simply said that we are only seeing one side of the story, and this from someone who has exhibited questionable judgment in making the $9500 payment for something he wasn't even sure he wanted. There are too many questions to be able to back either side. Without the full story from both sides, I can't in good conscience support either. I also can't automatically blame Celebrity based on the emotional anger of one person.

 

What seems like cheer leading is actually disappointment that some people blindly blame Celebrity without knowing all the facts, apparently for no other reason than the belief that corporations are always the bad guy in their minds. That is not a very rational or balanced view of life, in my opinion. Passing judgment without all the facts is just plain wrong.

Edited December 16, 2014 by fortinweb

[need2bespoiled]

That is exactly what I asked for, but since it was so close to the sail date they would not hold the reservation. The agent put me on hold to talk to his supervisor and came back with the option of charging the card but a full refund if cancelled within 24 hours. Celebrity airfare was very expensive and I wanted to find something more reasonable. Flights tend to be non-refundable and I did not want to book flights without having a firm cruise reservation.

 

 

 

If I found acceptable flights, we were good to go and the charge would stay. If not, I figured the full refund before my next statement would make this a zero sum game.

 

 

 

I called and cancelled within 2 hours and fully expected that the refund would be processed within a few days.

 

 

 

I trusted their competence, but now I know that I should not have. I AM NOT ACCUSING THEM OF SCAMMING ME, JUST UTTER INCOMPETENCE!

 

 

First, let me say that I totally believe you that Celebrity would offer a cabin on a 24 hour refund policy, take your money, make a note on the reservation and then work to process your reservation, and that it shouldn't take that long. I can see it happening, regardless of what other say or believe.

 

However, your statement above that flights being nonreturnable is simply FALSE. U.S. LAW states that any airline, foreign or domestic airline carrier marketing or selling airfare via the web has to either be willing to hold a quoted fare for 24 hours for free or refund a paid for fare for 24 hours for any flights with at least a 7 day advanced purchase. Cited: US DOT doc 20130530 24 Hold Final

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Notice_24hour_hold_final20130530.pdf

 

Second, I think it is pretty bad practice to threaten a company with a bad review or social media posts to try and get what you are entitled, deserve, need, want, expect, whatever. If someone threatens me, even if they are right, I am less likely to want to help. I know it can be frustrating as heck when you're in the right and a company doesn't do what they should.

 

MA Bell and Curt are definitely right, in my experience, even close in (less than 2 weeks) you can put a 24 hour hold on a cabin for free with, or without logging into My Celebrity. I've used this feature both to ensure everything else I needed was in place to confirm a booking and to hold a cabin I wanted to upgrade to until my TA arrived in the office.

 

Finally, to the disagreement about how credit card charges work and are disputed, this will vary by card and type of disputes. Some charges are able to be stopped right away, others can be credited back at time of dispute, and still others may not be credited back until after the investigation period. It may depend on whether it was a fraudulent or mistake charge VS the quality of a good or service being disputed. Just my experience.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

 

 

Sent from my iPad using fat fingers and Tapatalk

Edited December 16, 2014 by need2bespoiled

[DYKWIA]

Really? Are you one of those people who doesn't believe in science? Human behavior traits are well documented. But, one needs to pull one's head out of the sand (or elsewhere :)) to accept that simple fact.

 

My condolences that facts offend you.

 

I don't need your condolences - just because I called you out on a sweeping generalisation.

 

I'm a scientist.

 

You claimed that "any human behavior expert will tell you, the version of a story that people will tell about themselves will always avoid details that doesn't favor the story teller"

 

"Will ALWAYS avoid details that don't favor the story teller?" which expert said that? I thought factors like manipulation, position, how out-going some-one is, the relationship between the story teller and who they're telling the story to, risk and reward, whether they think they'll get away it - lots of variables.

[DirtyDawg]

I agree that this is very likely what happened, but the booking department needed to make sure that this was a different kind of deal. Miscommunication or lack of communication between booking agents at Celebrity and Accounting at Royal Caribbean could be the culprit.

 

Fortunately, American Express stepped in yesterday and took the remaining balance of my credit card.

 

dileep posted that on December 14th. It was post #41. It's now the 16th and we are on post #89!. It's over folks. Elvis has left the building. The fat lady finished singing days ago! That horse your flogging died about the time Elvis did.

 

i.e. This Ship has Sailed.

 

dileep, has a great cruise.:D

Edited December 16, 2014 by DirtyDawg

[dileep]

I was told by a customer service agent today that the remaining refund was processed yesterday and should show up in my Amex account either today or tomorrow.

All the customer service people I talked to were polite and understanding but helpless. It took another 10 days after they got involved to get the matter fixed.

 

It may be coincidence, but the charge was fixed within 2 days of AmEx letting them know that the remaining amount was being held as a disputed charge!

 

Now, all the misinformed people and doubting thomases who ranted without consideration can chill :D!

 

Please get your facts straight before you blow off!

Edited December 16, 2014 by dileep

[mlrandpkm]

I was told by a customer service agent today that the remaining refund was processed yesterday and should show up in my Amex account either today or tomorrow.

 

Now, the blowhards from Santa Fe and other cities can chill :D!

 

Please get your facts straight before you blow off!

 

 

So glad to hear that your remaining refund has been posted. :)

[Redtravel]

I do feel sorry for you. It is easy to get caught up in the booking experience. I have had been a victim of aggressive sales people who are very convincing. They will tell you anything to get the sale. Verbal promises can be good and bad. Most people are honest. Some people are not honest. Get all promises in writing. Air prices are going crazy. High fares are becoming the norm. I have been looking for cruises. I always look at air fares to get me to a cruise before booking. When a cruise is cheap, there is usually a good reason. High airfares, political unrest, bad weather, etc. can affect the cruise fares. There are some good deals. I have booked a few. Last minute bookings can be a good deal.I always am cautious when a certain cruise gets cheap. Unfortunately cruises that require flying long distances may be cheap can have air fares to get there may be too expensive. Always look at all costs involved before booking.

[DinaS]

I was told by a customer service agent today that the remaining refund was processed yesterday and should show up in my Amex account either today or tomorrow.

All the customer service people I talked to were polite and understanding but helpless. It took another 10 days after they got involved to get the matter fixed.

 

It may be coincidence, but the charge was fixed within 2 days of AmEx letting them know that the remaining amount was being held as a disputed charge!

 

Now, all the misinformed people and doubting thomases who ranted without consideration can chill :D!

 

Please get your facts straight before you blow off!

 

Getting AmEx involved may have expedited your refund.

 

Glad it all worked out, but sorry you had to deal with such craziness.

[dileep]

Getting AmEx involved may have expedited your refund.

 

Glad it all worked out, but sorry you had to deal with such craziness.

 

Thanks for understanding!

 

With 20/20 hindsight I should have insisted that I would only agree to a 24 hour hold and not a full refund within 24 hours. I was seduced by the last minute availability of the largest aft state room that usually sells very quickly.

 

They needed a customer willing to pay $9500 for cruise only as much or more than my desire for a luxurious vacation. Lesson learned!

 

Glad to be an American Express customer. They did not question what I was saying and took all my information an immediately put the remaining refund into disputed category and informed Celebrity.

Edited December 16, 2014 by dileep

[dileep]

The remaining refund amount has shown up in my AmEx account.

[TeaBag]

Wonderful Dileep. I'm happy for you. So now that you have your funds back, are you going to book another cruise?

[dileep]

Wonderful Dileep. I'm happy for you. So now that you have your funds back, are you going to book another cruise?

 

I am going on a shorter Princess Cruise closer to home on Sunday.

 

Not sure what comes next year.