Missed ship SXM, no passport, HYPOTHETICAL?

[greatam]

Actually you can get across the border without a passport/passport card/

EDL. You will be sent to secondary inspection and they will use other means to identify you and there will be a delay until they do (it happens in our neck of the woods a couple times a year when someone loses their documentation in Canada). If you present yourself at a border claiming US citizenship they cannot legally keep you out.

 

May happen across the Canadian border. But what I responded to was FLY into Mexico and then walk across the US border.

 

In addition, was just in Algodones Mexico Saturday with lots of other snowbirds buying medicines. One lady only had her BC/DL from Montana (she was 3 people in front of us in line to cross back into the USA). We could hear the entire conversation while the line was held up. She was told she must go back into Mexico, get a tourist card (20 mile Mexican limit). Travel to Mexicali, Calexico or Tijuana, get a passport or passport card. She was in tears. She was traveling with 3 other women who all had passports or passport cards. One of them kept saying "I told you so". The last we saw, they were heading back into Algodones to try to figure it out.

 

CBP was not much help other than to direct her to the closest place she could get a passport. There were only two people on duty inside, lines of cars from Mexico about 8 blocks long where another 4 people were outside inspecting cars.

 

So while she may have been able to FORCE her way back into the USA with extensive extra screening, there just aren't enough people at these border crossings anymore to take the time to do all the secondary checks that may be needed. In Algodones, Why, AZ, Calexico and Nogales, HUGE signs state PASSPORT or PASSPORT card REQUIRED for re-entry to the USA BEFORE you walk into Mexico. Couldn't be much clearer that with the shortage of CBP personnel (they are all babysitting the illegal kids) and constant reminders before you walk across that border, you better have your passport or passport card.

 

As for not having a passport, it's an individual judgment call and millions travel without one on closed loop cruises every year just fine. There are provisions in the regulations that allow the State Dept to waive the passport requirement in an emergency or for humanitarian reasons.

 

Never been on a closed loop cruise, never will go on one. But no matter what cruise you take, the chance is still there that you miss the ship or some disaster happens to prevent you from returning via ship. Emergency or humanitarian reason-yes, I will agree. State Dept and Consular Officers can be a big help. You drank too much, forgot the time and missed the ship-neither an emergency and certainly not a humanitarian reason.

 

I use my passport even for domestic flights. Gets me through security a lot faster than TSA trying to figure out whether the DL you present is even real. $350 buys you a very, very real looking AZ or CA DL in both LA and Phoenix. Add another $250 and you get a SS card to match plus maybe even a bogus credit card.

[sparks1093]

May happen across the Canadian border. But what I responded to was FLY into Mexico and then walk across the US border.

 

In addition, was just in Algodones Mexico Saturday with lots of other snowbirds buying medicines. One lady only had her BC/DL from Montana (she was 3 people in front of us in line to cross back into the USA). We could hear the entire conversation while the line was held up. She was told she must go back into Mexico, get a tourist card (20 mile Mexican limit). Travel to Mexicali, Calexico or Tijuana, get a passport or passport card. She was in tears. She was traveling with 3 other women who all had passports or passport cards. One of them kept saying "I told you so". The last we saw, they were heading back into Algodones to try to figure it out.

 

CBP was not much help other than to direct her to the closest place she could get a passport. There were only two people on duty inside, lines of cars from Mexico about 8 blocks long where another 4 people were outside inspecting cars.

 

So while she may have been able to FORCE her way back into the USA with extensive extra screening, there just aren't enough people at these border crossings anymore to take the time to do all the secondary checks that may be needed. In Algodones, Why, AZ, Calexico and Nogales, HUGE signs state PASSPORT or PASSPORT card REQUIRED for re-entry to the USA BEFORE you walk into Mexico. Couldn't be much clearer that with the shortage of CBP personnel (they are all babysitting the illegal kids) and constant reminders before you walk across that border, you better have your passport or passport card.

 

 

 

Never been on a closed loop cruise, never will go on one. But no matter what cruise you take, the chance is still there that you miss the ship or some disaster happens to prevent you from returning via ship. Emergency or humanitarian reason-yes, I will agree. State Dept and Consular Officers can be a big help. You drank too much, forgot the time and missed the ship-neither an emergency and certainly not a humanitarian reason.

 

I use my passport even for domestic flights. Gets me through security a lot faster than TSA trying to figure out whether the DL you present is even real. $350 buys you a very, very real looking AZ or CA DL in both LA and Phoenix. Add another $250 and you get a SS card to match plus maybe even a bogus credit card.

 

Flying into Mexico would certainly be a stretch. I am surprised at your depiction of what happened at the border, well, no, I guess I'm not.

 

The risk for most passengers is actually quite small, but you are right- it is doubtful that someone who overstayed at Senor Frogs would receive the same assistance as someone who just had an unexpected death in the family.

[Hlitner]

I think some of the posts are a bit fantasy. This is not about "walking over the border" or any other such nonsense. It is about being stranded on an island which is not part of the USA (if you get stranded on the USVI or PR you would be OK). The bottom line is that no airline is going to allow you to board a flight to Mexico, Canada, USA or any other country unless you have a valid Passport. The reality is that you must simply wait on that island (at your own expense) until such time as you can obtain an emergency Passport from your consulate (or its duly appointed representative). This process can take anywhere from a couple of days to many days. The process is a bit faster (perhaps only 2 business days) if you actually possess a valid Passport (which you do not have) that can be verified by the Department of State. If you do not have any Passport (which is very common with US Passengers on Closed-Loop cruises) then the situation can become a lot more complicated and the waiting time can really increase (all at your own expense).

 

Hank

[TravelerThom]

How were you able to do that without a passport? :)

Touche:cool: I hired a fishing boat, and for proper remuneration I got there with no problem, mon.:p A little bakshish can work wonders, but I was trying to keep my hypothetical situation legal. I have never bribed any government official yet, but if my life depended on it I'm sure I would. I did once suggest to a Bolivian policemen that I would be willing to pay an "on the spot" fine, but he was either honest:eek:, or more likely my Spanish was so bad he didn't pick up on it.

 

I wasn't gong to mention about the time I was on a local ferry from St. George's to Carriacou in Grenada, and discovered that the boat was then making an unscheduled stop at Union Island in the country of St. Vincent and the Grenadines before returning for passengers back from Carriacou to St. George's. Not having any particular agenda I asked if I could go along for the ride to Union Island, without particularly thinking about the fact that I was carrying NO identification, much less a passport. Upon arrival at Union, the Captain suggested I stay on the boat until he talked to the port captain, and was then told it was okay for me to walk around as long as I didn't go too far. I THINK that the only additional two times I was guilty of illegal border crossings were from Kenya to Tanzania and from Brazil to Argentina.

 

This is reminding me of the advice I read years ago in South American Handbook: While we are not recommending bribing, if you are going to do it, bribe early before there are too many people involved. And they concluded with: Note if you are a drug dealer, you know far more about this than we do.

 

Thom

[TravelerThom]

SXM is the IATA code for Princess Juliana International Airport in Sint Maarten, and is sometimes used as shorthand for Sint Maarten. [some people use FLL (airport code for Fort Lauderdale) as shorthand for Port Everglades.]

 

Yes, it is Consulates that issue Passports. One can find a number of different definitions, but Embassy may/can/does refer to actual diplomatic delegation, and the building is probably more correctly referred to as a chancery. Sometimes Embassy is used to refer to just the residence of the ambassador. If one accepts that Embassy means diplomatic delegation, the Consul is a member of that delegation, so then passports are issued by the Embassy. But it is far more direct, probably more correct and clearer to say that Consulates that issue Passports.

[NightOne]

I'm curious how this is going to work. You aren't walking across the US border legally without a passport or passport card. Coyotes to escort you across the border and leave you in the desert cost more than really nice hotels in the Caribbean (going rate is between $1500-2500 per person here in AZ). And you aren't getting on a regulated plane without a passport into Mexico. You might find a private plane to transport you but no regulated airline is going to fly you without a passport. To even enter Mexico other than just a border crossing from the USA (rule is 20 miles into Mexico), you must have a passport or birth certificate/DL. But you aren't getting back into the USA with a BC/DL.

 

We did it all the time when I lived in San Diego. Night of partying down in TJ and then back across the border in the wee hours.

 

Granted this was pre-911 but at the time the only 3 questions you were asked were:

 

1. Where were you born?

2. Are you a U.S. Citizen?

3. Did you buy anything while you were in Mexico?

 

I'm sure rules have changes but I am pretty sure you can still walk across with just your driver's license.

 

Also, as an American citizen it is not a privilege to be allowed into the country by border patrol, it is a right. So unless they have some decent recent to suspect you are a non-U.S. citizen then you are coming across. :)

Edited January 15, 2015 by NightOne

[Karysa]

On HAL ships, if you do not return to the ship in port in time to sail, Security will look for your passport in your cabin safe. If they find it, they will give it to their Port Agent to hold for you. EVERYONE should take PORT AGENT'S NAME and contact information ashore with them. On HAL ships, it is listed on the port handout sheet HAL prepares for each port. Top right corner, name, address, telephone......

 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong but the references to U.S. Embassy in this thread should be U.S. Consulates. Isn't it the Consulate that issues duplicate passports abroad?

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but we are talking about traveling without a passport. If the cruiser has never applied for a passport and traveled with their birth certificate it wouldn't be the same as simply losing your passport and needing a replacement I wouldn't think.

[greatam]

I'm sure rules have changes but I am pretty sure you can still walk across with just your driver's license.

 

NO YOU CAN'T!!! MUST have a passport of passport card.

 

Also, as an American citizen it is not a privilege to be allowed into the country by border patrol, it is a right. So unless they have some decent recent to suspect you are a non-U.S. citizen then you are coming across.

 

Privilege or not, you are NOT getting across the border in Tijuana, Algodones, Calexico, San Luis, Why, AZ or Nogales without a passport or passport card. While eventually, someone MAY have the time to do all the secondary screening necessary to let you cross without a passport, CBP is tremendously overburdened, their budgets have been cut, the amount of officers on duty at these border crossings are few and far between and they want to keep the lines moving. TJ can have backups up to 1.5 hours on foot. It is NOT uncommon in Algodones for there to be 2 hour lines for foot traffic when all the snowbirds go to Mexico to buy medicine. Saturdays and Sundays are a nightmare unless you leave before noon. Nogales is so short on officers, they actually close the border to all vehicle traffic at 8PM. And you can only cross on foot until midnight unless you get a special pass (wedding, business meeting, etc. etc). The officers are needed in the desert to hunt the illegals at night when the coyotes move them.

 

Even the traffic border check point approx 30 miles North of Yuma on HWY 95 in AZ is down to 3 people per shift. 1 dog handler, 1 checking AZ cars, 1 checking other state cars/RV's but primarily Mexican cars that are legal to cross and get an extensive check. Throw in a few semis (LOTS of produce moving North out of Yuma this time of year) and even that little check point can be backed up for over 1/2 hour just to get your car cleared.

 

A lot of officers are babysitting all the illegal kids that crossed and are either in detention centers or being processed to relatives.

 

Times have changed a LOT since you (and me and all my friends) were free to walk across the border to party with just a DL.

Edited January 15, 2015 by greatam

[sail7seas]

Correct me if I am wrong but we are talking about traveling without a passport. If the cruiser has never applied for a passport and traveled with their birth certificate it wouldn't be the same as simply losing your passport and needing a replacement I wouldn't think.

 

Cannot a Consulate issue temporary letter to travel to get someone who does not have a passport passage on an airplane?

 

[TravelerThom]

We did it all the time when I lived in San Diego. Night of partying down in TJ and then back across the border in the wee hours.

 

Granted this was pre-911 but at the time the only 3 questions you were asked were:

 

1. Where were you born?

2. Are you a U.S. Citizen?

3. Did you buy anything while you were in Mexico?

 

I'm sure rules have changes but I am pretty sure you can still walk across with just your driver's license.

 

Also, as an American citizen it is not a privilege to be allowed into the country by border patrol, it is a right. So unless they have some decent recent to suspect you are a non-U.S. citizen then you are coming across. :)

I clearly remember those days, but they are long gone. You are absolutely wrong that "you can still walk across with just your driver's license" (note that I do not consider an EDL as "just a driver's license"). It is NOT a case of the Border Patrol having some decent reason to suspect you are a non-US citizen; they can and will detain you until they have reasonable PROOF that you ARE a US citizen. Feel free to try your scenario, but don't have any immediate place you have to be; you'll be there for awhile.

[sail7seas]

SXM is the IATA code for Princess Juliana International Airport in Sint Maarten, and is sometimes used as shorthand for Sint Maarten. [some people use FLL (airport code for Fort Lauderdale) as shorthand for Port Everglades.]

 

Yes, it is Consulates that issue Passports. One can find a number of different definitions, but Embassy may/can/does refer to actual diplomatic delegation, and the building is probably more correctly referred to as a chancery. Sometimes Embassy is used to refer to just the residence of the ambassador. If one accepts that Embassy means diplomatic delegation, the Consul is a member of that delegation, so then passports are issued by the Embassy. But it is far more direct, probably more correct and clearer to say that Consulates that issue Passports.

 

Great explanation. :) Thank you.

 

[TravelerThom]

Cannot a Consulate issue temporary letter to travel to get someone who does not have a passport passage on an airplane?

Short answer: I don't know. I do know that Consulates may issue Temporary Passports which are based on less than full documentation (eg a phone discussion with the Public Records Office where you were born, rather than an actual Certified Birth Certificate). These are good for a limited time, and full documentation will have to be produced to then get an Unrestricted Passport. Many years ago (yes pre-2001, so who knows now) I was traveling with someone who had to get a Temporary Passport.

 

Thom

[Karysa]

Cannot a Consulate issue temporary letter to travel to get someone who does not have a passport passage on an airplane?

 

 

I have no idea.

[sparks1093]

Cannot a Consulate issue temporary letter to travel to get someone who does not have a passport passage on an airplane?

 

 

It is my understanding that they have the authority to do so. Whether they will exercise that authority will likely depend on the individual facts and circumstances.

[NightOne]

I clearly remember those days, but they are long gone. You are absolutely wrong that "you can still walk across with just your driver's license" (note that I do not consider an EDL as "just a driver's license"). It is NOT a case of the Border Patrol having some decent reason to suspect you are a non-US citizen; they can and will detain you until they have reasonable PROOF that you ARE a US citizen. Feel free to try your scenario, but don't have any immediate place you have to be; you'll be there for awhile.

 

I haven't walked across the border from Mexico in a very long time but I would think that if they detained all the Americans that went to TJ for the night and came back without passports that it would be a huge pile up that they couldn't possibly deal with on a regular basis.

 

On another note, being that there are said to be approximately 11 million illegal immigrants in the country at the present time it doesn't seem as if it too terribly hard to get it the U.S. from the border with Mexico.

 

Oh, and lets lighten up with the language a little bit. ("absolutely wrong") It is just a discussion (hypothetical at that) and not a pissing contest. :)

[NightOne]

NO YOU CAN'T!!! MUST have a passport of passport card.

 

Relax...take a deep breath .... Ommmmm ... Ommmmmm

 

Privilege or not, you are NOT getting across the border in Tijuana, Algodones, Calexico, San Luis, Why, AZ or Nogales without a passport or passport card. While eventually, someone MAY have the time to do all the secondary screening necessary to let you cross without a passport, CBP is tremendously overburdened, their budgets have been cut, the amount of officers on duty at these border crossings are few and far between and they want to keep the lines moving. TJ can have backups up to 1.5 hours on foot. It is NOT uncommon in Algodones for there to be 2 hour lines for foot traffic when all the snowbirds go to Mexico to buy medicine. Saturdays and Sundays are a nightmare unless you leave before noon. Nogales is so short on officers, they actually close the border to all vehicle traffic at 8PM. And you can only cross on foot until midnight unless you get a special pass (wedding, business meeting, etc. etc). The officers are needed in the desert to hunt the illegals at night when the coyotes move them.

 

Even the traffic border check point approx 30 miles North of Yuma on HWY 95 in AZ is down to 3 people per shift. 1 dog handler, 1 checking AZ cars, 1 checking other state cars/RV's but primarily Mexican cars that are legal to cross and get an extensive check. Throw in a few semis (LOTS of produce moving North out of Yuma this time of year) and even that little check point can be backed up for over 1/2 hour just to get your car cleared.

 

A lot of officers are babysitting all the illegal kids that crossed and are either in detention centers or being processed to relatives.

 

Times have changed a LOT since you (and me and all my friends) were free to walk across the border to party with just a DL.

 

I haven't been in a very long time so I don't know the current situation. And although I may very well be totally wrong, I find it hard to believe they are going to detain a guy from Des Moines, IA with a valid state DL for any real length of time when they could certainly check those credentials in a database of some sort.

[Cuizer2]

 

What does the "SXM" mean?

 

 

SXM is the airport code for the international airport on the island. Just like LAX is the airport code for the international airport in Los Angeles and JFK is the airport code for the international airport in New York City and HAL is the name of the computer in 2001 A Space Odyssey. :)

Edited January 15, 2015 by Cuizer2

[Cuizer2]

$350 buys you a very, very real looking AZ or CA DL in both LA and Phoenix. Add another $250 and you get a SS card to match plus maybe even a bogus credit card.

 

Are they printed in both Spanish and English?

[RocketMan275]

Actually you can get across the border without a passport/passport card/

EDL. You will be sent to secondary inspection and they will use other means to identify you and there will be a delay until they do (it happens in our neck of the woods a couple times a year when someone loses their documentation in Canada). If you present yourself at a border claiming US citizenship they cannot legally keep you out.

 

Just one reason why I have both a card and a real passport. I recognize that the card has limitations (no need to tell me it's not a complete substitute for a passport) but it's a comfort to leave the passport in the safe on the ship and still have the card in my wallet off the ship. Figure if I do get left, I will at least have something issued by the State Department confirming my citizenship.

[Cuizer2]

Just one reason why I have both a card and a real passport. I recognize that the card has limitations (no need to tell me it's not a complete substitute for a passport) but it's a comfort to leave the passport in the safe on the ship and still have the card in my wallet off the ship. Figure if I do get left, I will at least have something issued by the State Department confirming my citizenship.

 

I have both because the passport card is easier to carry around and it is okay to get it wet. I even used it instead of my passport on a repo cruise (NJ to Port Canaveral) without any problems. However, just in case, I also had my passport.

[NMLady]

I always carry my passport when I board a cruise, even if it is closed-loop out of the US. I rarely carry my passport off the ship, since I am always back within sight of the ship 2 hours before sailing, and have determined the chances of me losing my passport (dropped, mugged, etc) is greater than me missing the ship. [Your analysis may vary.]

 

What happens if anyone who is not carrying a passport misses the ship in Sint Maarten (or St. Kitts, Dominica, etc). None of these countries have a physical US Embassy, but are serviced by the US Embassy in Barbados. Theoretically you need a passport to get from Sint Maarten to Barbados in order to get a passport. What do you do then? And I'm sure that with tens of thousands of cruise visitors a week, this must be a fairly regular occurrence.

 

Thom

 

Contact the port agent for help. Seems to me that with things like Fax an emergency waiver could be expedited from Embassy in Barbados.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

I use my passport even for domestic flights. Gets me through security a lot faster than TSA trying to figure out whether the DL you present is even real. $350 buys you a very, very real looking AZ or CA DL in both LA and Phoenix. Add another $250 and you get a SS card to match plus maybe even a bogus credit card.

How long are they taking to look at DL's? Granted, I don't fly much (1-2 times/year), but I don't think I've taken more than 30 seconds (if that long) with TSA checking my DL and my Boarding Pass. :confused:

[greatam]

Are they printed in both Spanish and English?

 

Good one!!!!

 

Supposedly, when the lines were so long at AZ DMV when they opened for "illegal licenses" a few weeks ago, there were guys not far away selling very, very credible licenses. And since the illegals can't be stopped now just for being illegal, the chances of them getting caught are minimal unless they commit a traffic violation. But they are good for bank accounts, mortgages, credit cards, and IN STATE tuition.

 

 

Someone showed up with an ABSOLUTELY PERFECT CDL to apply for a job about 4 months ago. If we hadn't run the social through E-Verify, it looked EXACTLY like mine, down to the hologram (or whatever that lettering is you can only see if you turn it sideways).

[greatam]

How long are they taking to look at DL's? Granted, I don't fly much (1-2 times/year), but I don't think I've taken more than 30 seconds (if that long) with TSA checking my DL and my Boarding Pass. :confused:

 

You just need to fly out of PHX or LA (most likely parts of Texas and other states with heavily illegal immigrant populations). The amount of bogus licenses floating around allowing people on airplanes would astound you.

Edited January 15, 2015 by greatam

[greatam]

Relax...take a deep breath .... Ommmmm ... Ommmmmm

 

 

 

I haven't been in a very long time so I don't know the current situation. And although I may very well be totally wrong, I find it hard to believe they are going to detain a guy from Des Moines, IA with a valid state DL for any real length of time when they could certainly check those credentials in a database of some sort.

 

What database would you like them to check? State DL info are not in all easily accessible databases EXCEPT for those holding CDL's. Those are in a nationwide database although it is not kept up to date with any kind of precision. I have one employee whose license was suspended for too many tickets in 2006 for 1 year and even though he has paid the fines and did not drive a commercial vehicle for a year, that suspension still shows up as valid in some states. He finally got a letter from AZ DMV that his license is NOT suspended, was reinstated in 2008 and is a valid CDL.

 

As for those Iowa DL-"dreamers" get licenses as of Jan 23. Born in Mexico, only need a BC. Iowa isn't even requiring a passport from the foreign country as a few states are (AZ being one of them). So please tell me about the person from Des Moines that has an Iowa DL but is NOT a citizen!!! Does he get across the border too with his DL???