Debit card theft. Norwegian Sky

[luvtheships]

Debit cards SUCK.....NEVER use them outside of your local area...use a credit card (which has protection), or cash.

Lesson learned.

 

Agree.... And I take it a step further....only use debit cards at a secure inside bank camera monitored (preferably your own bank ) ATM to only get pocket cash.

 

 

 

 

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[david_sobe]

Agree.... And I take it a step further....only use debit cards at a secure inside bank camera monitored (preferably your own bank ) ATM to only get pocket cash.

 

 

 

 

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That will not always work. Skimming devices are mostly put on bank ATMs. My debit card never leaves my hand. On 2 occasions I used a debit card at an ATM attached to a bank. Both times a skimming devices was on the bank ATM. They obtained my card number and pin number. They even withdrew money from a bank ATM with cameras about 50 miles away.

Credit card fraud is extremely common. The ATMS that are targeted are high traffic areas where there are lots of customers in short periods of time before the fraud is discovered.

[david_sobe]

Um...I've lived in Miami for 20 years now and my DH has lived here all his life and we've never had a problem with debit/credit/gas or any other cards. I don't think it's a 'Miami' thing....either that or we've just been plain lucky.

Miami is ground zero for identity theft and credit card fraud in the USA. I have been here for 21 years and never a problem before moving here. You have not seen the news with how many devices were found at the pumps at gas stations here in Miami?

My debit card was skimmed at several ATM banks over the years. Last year someone applied for 5 credit cards with my social security number. When I went to the police, I was told that North Miami has the most credit card fraud anywhere. A few years ago Miami Beach police busted an international scam that involved bank ATMS on Miami Beach. The targets were from the Ukraine and obtained hundreds of thousands of dollars in just a few hours that skimming devices were on the ATMS around the tourist areas of Miami Beach.

Here is an article. I don't recall anywhere else in the country that discovers so many skimming devices on credit card readers. Its so common here. Its great you have never been a victim but you have never seen the news?

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/04/23/sweep-of-florida-gas-stations-finds-skimmers-at-pumps/

Edited April 30, 2015 by david_sobe

[Illyria]

I wonder if it's a state requirement? We had to do it here. It could have been the amount too ... they got $2,500 from us. Thankfully, we got it all back, but did have to contact the police for them to investigate, and prove to the bank, etc.

It's not a state requirement...it's just a requirement of your bank (which doesn't sound very consumer-friendly to me). Most major banks will now allow the same protections to debit cards as we normally expect on credit cards (you're not responsible for any fraudulent charges). Of course, it's little relief if your bank account is drained and you're without money while you're waiting for it to be restored...which is why I never use debit card for purchases of anything, anywhere, period (still have to use them at ATMs but that's life).

 

I was stupidly using the same online password for a bunch of sites for a very long time. I was gradually changing it on different sites but I didn't change it on one of my bank logins. One of the other sites where I used it was hacked, and my login/password was used to login into my bank account and transfer $1000 out of it. The bank actually called me to let me know that they logged "suspicious online activity" on my account. They immediately closed the account and I got my money back a few days later. Didn't really have to jump through any hoops or file police reports or prove it other than saying "no, I didn't authorize this transfer".

 

I actually hate using that bank's website - it only uses a single-step login/password protocol. It's the only bank I use that's so lazy with their login procedures (I wouldn't be banking with them but my husband likes them, so our joint account is with them).

[luvtheships]

That will not always work. Skimming devices are mostly put on bank ATMs. My debit card never leaves my hand. On 2 occasions I used a debit card at an ATM attached to a bank. Both times a skimming devices was on the bank ATM. They obtained my card number and pin number. They even withdrew money from a bank ATM with cameras about 50 miles away.

Credit card fraud is extremely common. The ATMS that are targeted are high traffic areas where there are lots of customers in short periods of time before the fraud is discovered.

 

So then I guess ATM cards are basically useless?

 

I have to disagree with your opinion on bank ATMs

 

 

I am referring to using the atm that is located within the main operating area of a bank branch not those in the attached to street bank lobby kiosks and I also only advocate ATM use for emergency cash if a credit card won't work

 

Also I asked at my branch about skimmers and they said they have human eyes on the atms and they check the lobby ones 4x a day... Of course nothing is perfect

 

Either way I still haven't activated my ATM card nor do I plan to as I know to get cash from a teller and always have emergency cash available

 

Now trust me this is a big change from how I used to operate as all I ever did was ATM withdrawals but not any longer

 

And the funny thing is that I was a management trainee and then officer with the largest at the time bank in the 1980's and was actually part of the roll out team of the 24 hour ATMs but you won't catch me using one in 2015!!!

 

I guess that technology innovation has made us go back to the basics because some of the technology has backfired

 

Many here will now get all huffy and tell me I am overreacting but credit card use is much better and safer than ATM use for purchases of any kind and I still stand by my theory of ATM debit card use is for emergency cash only.....

 

 

 

 

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Edited April 30, 2015 by luvtheships

[ColinIllinois]

Nope...I use Paypal. Which is secure and guaranteed.

 

 

Paypal can, and has, been hacked before. Unfortunately, all the good guys are always playing catch-up to bad guys. It's a constant cyber-battle.

[Shawnino]

First off; I am sorry that the OP has experienced this. But what I don't understand is why there aren't more security measures in place when it

comes to these cards. In Canada we need to provide a 'pin' number when we

are using any of our cards; debit or credit. Which makes it almost impossible

for this type of situation to occur.

Does anyone know why this type of security measure hasn't been implemented

in other countries?

 

Canada has a handful of large, coast-to-coast banks, another handful of regional ones, and an integrated Credit Union network... and that's it. With relatively few players who are very well regulated, it's easy to build a system like Interac and get/force everyone's buy in.

 

In some countries, any huckster clown can open a 'bank', so there might be literally thousands of them. If we think of the blood collection business as a metaphor, instead of a blood-bank approach, the business model is more of a drive-by-shooting. Enforcing national standards becomes almost impossible, and the best the government can do is concentrate on trying to prevent systemic collapse.

[EvilBanker]

The rules regarding debit card disputes differ from a credit card dispute. You need to go to your local police station and file a report. Without this, the bank is not obligated to return the money stolen from your account.

 

As someone who deals with this on a daily basis - and with respect to all the fabulous information you've shared across many, many postings - this is incorrect. While your bank can suggest that you file a police report (which is mostly for your own peace of mind), or even request that you file a police report (typically done when they think a claim of fraud may not be truthful), they cannot require you to. The Electronic Fund Transfer Act, implemented via Regulation E, requires only that you notify your financial institution timely (by law, within 60 days of your receipt of the statement that contains the unauthorized charges). If you live (or your account is domiciled) in Massachusetts, the timeframe extends to 4 years.

 

You can make the initial notification by phone (and with some banks, via their online banking system); in some cases you may also be required to notify in writing (normally using a form they send after you've originally reported the issue).

 

"Reg E," as it's called, also limits your liability (the amount varies, depending on when you notify), although any decent bank waives that and will not hold you responsible for any unauthorized transactions on your debit card.

 

To steal a line from the dearly departed Sy Syms, "An educated consumer is our best customer." :)

Edited April 30, 2015 by EvilBanker
clarity

[Mrs CruisinCritter]

I traveled with the Norwegian Sky between 4/24 - 4/27 with my sister and 2 other friends. My luggage was the very last to arrive (About 2 hours later). The was probably ripped off and was replaced with a lime colored sticker with my cabin number written on it.

 

On the Pool Deck they had just started serving burgers and so we all went upstairs to eat. My sister and I came back to the room to get her wallet and we meet our stateroom attendant who seemed very nice. She was in the middle of cleaning and mentioned she had found a Micheal Kors watch.. which belonged to my friend, so she handed to watch to me.. and we grabbed what we needed and left.

 

The next day I noticed I was missing a pair of shoe while I was unpacking. I thought maybe I left it at the hotel we had stayed at and didn't think anything of it.

 

Fast forward to today 4/29. I checked my bank account and there were charges on my debit card from Hotwire around $190 and one from Fandago for about $60 on 4/27 & 4/28. I immediately contacted my girlfriends and they all checked their accounts.. seems like I am the only one that had these kind of charges.

 

I did leave my debit cards and master card in our cabin when we got off in the Bahamas.

 

I called the hotel the day we got off the Norwegian Sky and they did not find any shoes in the room we stayed in.

 

 

I am almost sure our Stateroom Attendant took it.. but she was so nice to us.

 

I called my bank and they frooze all my accounts until the charges clear. In the mean time... is there anything I can do? Like contact the cruise line?

 

 

I was on this sailing with you. We questioned our cabin steward many times for the fact that she spent hours longer than any other steward team cleaning the cabins both in the morning and at turn down. The questionable thing was that for some reason, she would spend long periods of time in different rooms and would have the closet door open blocking the view in from the hallway, but this wasn't done in every room and it was different rooms each service.

 

We joked that she must have been going through people's belongings to be spending that much time in the cabins and for opening the closet doors while she was there, but now you've got me questioning her actions a little more so. What cabin were you in? We were 9255. Did we have the same steward?

[jaja]

Just a comment...

Years ago I had my wallet stolen. I dealt with the "initial" hassle of replacing all IDs and working with CC companies to wipe out charges, etc.

BUT..then over a year later....the problems resurfaced...in the form of ID theft and utilities and loan applications being made ,etc..in other states.

It took almost a year to fix. And to be honest..I still worry and check my credit report annually.

I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH...GET A POLICE REPORT..for any initial problem...it really helped when things surfaced later...many companies will ask for a copy of a police report . (yes..my problem involved not just CC use but loss of IDs...BUT...hoping my experience will help others if it happens )

[triptolemus]

I was on this sailing with you. We questioned our cabin steward many times for the fact that she spent hours longer than any other steward team cleaning the cabins both in the morning and at turn down. The questionable thing was that for some reason, she would spend long periods of time in different rooms and would have the closet door open blocking the view in from the hallway, but this wasn't done in every room and it was different rooms each service.

 

We joked that she must have been going through people's belongings to be spending that much time in the cabins and for opening the closet doors while she was there, but now you've got me questioning her actions a little more so. What cabin were you in? We were 9255. Did we have the same steward?

 

Seriously?

 

You questioned the cabin steward? What did you say to her?

 

Or did you walk by whispering under your breath to each other about what a pilfering thief she was?

 

I wonder why you're so busy peeking into other staterooms, hmm? Maybe we should check your pockets...

Edited April 30, 2015 by triptolemus

[SissasMomE]

It's not a state requirement...it's just a requirement of your bank (which doesn't sound very consumer-friendly to me). Most major banks will now allow the same protections to debit cards as we normally expect on credit cards (you're not responsible for any fraudulent charges). Of course, it's little relief if your bank account is drained and you're without money while you're waiting for it to be restored...which is why I never use debit card for purchases of anything, anywhere, period (still have to use them at ATMs but that's life).

 

 

On the contrary. The money was put back as soon as they received the police report - which was literally hours after it happened. So, instead of me having to wait the 10 days while they investigated, it was just about immediately restored. Wells Fargo is good like that ... and it was nothing for me to get the report. I'd much rather do it that way than wait for an "investigation".

 

No one should be using a debit card anymore ... but, I guess if it's a chance someone is willing to take ... <shrug>

[SissasMomE]

As someone who deals with this on a daily basis - and with respect to all the fabulous information you've shared across many, many postings - this is incorrect. While your bank can suggest that you file a police report (which is mostly for your own peace of mind), or even request that you file a police report (typically done when they think a claim of fraud may not be truthful), they cannot require you to. The Electronic Fund Transfer Act, implemented via Regulation E, requires only that you notify your financial institution timely (by law, within 60 days of your receipt of the statement that contains the unauthorized charges). If you live (or your account is domiciled) in Massachusetts, the timeframe extends to 4 years.

 

You can make the initial notification by phone (and with some banks, via their online banking system); in some cases you may also be required to notify in writing (normally using a form they send after you've originally reported the issue).

 

"Reg E," as it's called, also limits your liability (the amount varies, depending on when you notify), although any decent bank waives that and will not hold you responsible for any unauthorized transactions on your debit card.

 

To steal a line from the dearly departed Sy Syms, "An educated consumer is our best customer." :)

 

Thank you for the information. This is not my area of law. As stated in my post just prior, our funds were returned to us immediately after providing them with a police report. I thought it was a requirement. After reading the posts here, it was probably more of a courtesy by Wells Fargo to waive the investigation waiting period.

[SissasMomE]

Just a comment...

Years ago I had my wallet stolen. I dealt with the "initial" hassle of replacing all IDs and working with CC companies to wipe out charges, etc.

BUT..then over a year later....the problems resurfaced...in the form of ID theft and utilities and loan applications being made ,etc..in other states.

It took almost a year to fix. And to be honest..I still worry and check my credit report annually.

I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH...GET A POLICE REPORT..for any initial problem...it really helped when things surfaced later...many companies will ask for a copy of a police report . (yes..my problem involved not just CC use but loss of IDs...BUT...hoping my experience will help others if it happens )

 

Requirements aside, one should always get a police report for any type of theft. Always.

[Tiggertastic]

Having worked in banking for 9 years, the first 6 years were in debit and credit cards. It's easy to scam a card and thousands of transactions go through every day. There are huge numbers of teams of people employed just to deal with the resolution of these.

 

I'm sorry the op had this happen but ot could have happened anywhere and at any time. Some hold numbers for months Others use them immediately and they often take a smaller transaction before a bigger one

 

Re the shoes, you could have lost those anywhere, I knew I'd left something ata hotel and they denied having it but I knew exactly where I'd left it

 

Is stick with a credit card, it has a lot more protection

[bambione]

It's not a state requirement...it's just a requirement of your bank (which doesn't sound very consumer-friendly to me). Most major banks will now allow the same protections to debit cards as we normally expect on credit cards (you're not responsible for any fraudulent charges). Of course, it's little relief if your bank account is drained and you're without money while you're waiting for it to be restored...which is why I never use debit card for purchases of anything, anywhere, period (still have to use them at ATMs but that's life).

 

I was stupidly using the same online password for a bunch of sites for a very long time. I was gradually changing it on different sites but I didn't change it on one of my bank logins. One of the other sites where I used it was hacked, and my login/password was used to login into my bank account and transfer $1000 out of it. The bank actually called me to let me know that they logged "suspicious online activity" on my account. They immediately closed the account and I got my money back a few days later. Didn't really have to jump through any hoops or file police reports or prove it other than saying "no, I didn't authorize this transfer".

 

I actually hate using that bank's website - it only uses a single-step login/password protocol. It's the only bank I use that's so lazy with their login procedures (I wouldn't be banking with them but my husband likes them, so our joint account is with them).

 

Can you tell me what bank this is? I'm just curious because I noticed you're from Denver. My bank (FirstBank) has a few different security procedures that if you're using a different computer you have to answer a few questions.

[Philob]

Agree.... And I take it a step further....only use debit cards at a secure inside bank camera monitored (preferably your own bank ) ATM to only get pocket cash.

 

A few years ago the scammers posed as technicians and altered or changed the card readers right in front of the store employees:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/luckys-supermarket-chain-hit-card-skimmer-thieves/story?id=15123679

 

One of the affected stores is the one we go to.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Philob

[newmexicoNita]

I traveled with the Norwegian Sky between 4/24 - 4/27 with my sister and 2 other friends. My luggage was the very last to arrive (About 2 hours later). The was probably ripped off and was replaced with a lime colored sticker with my cabin number written on it.

 

On the Pool Deck they had just started serving burgers and so we all went upstairs to eat. My sister and I came back to the room to get her wallet and we meet our stateroom attendant who seemed very nice. She was in the middle of cleaning and mentioned she had found a Micheal Kors watch.. which belonged to my friend, so she handed to watch to me.. and we grabbed what we needed and left.

 

The next day I noticed I was missing a pair of shoe while I was unpacking. I thought maybe I left it at the hotel we had stayed at and didn't think anything of it.

 

Fast forward to today 4/29. I checked my bank account and there were charges on my debit card from Hotwire around $190 and one from Fandago for about $60 on 4/27 & 4/28. I immediately contacted my girlfriends and they all checked their accounts.. seems like I am the only one that had these kind of charges.

 

I did leave my debit cards and master card in our cabin when we got off in the Bahamas.

 

I called the hotel the day we got off the Norwegian Sky and they did not find any shoes in the room we stayed in.

 

 

I am almost sure our Stateroom Attendant took it.. but she was so nice to us.

 

I called my bank and they frooze all my accounts until the charges clear. In the mean time... is there anything I can do? Like contact the cruise line?

 

What a horrible experience. I woudl be beyound upset, but do be careful about assuming what happened. We just did a Pearl cruise, when we unpacked we noticed our almost new luggage had a rip on the outside. Nothing was missing luckily, but how it got ripped we have no idea and I am not blaming or even thinking of accusing anyone. In our case it could have been the airline, the porters or whom ever delivered our luggage to our cabin. We ended up after getting home, just tossing the suitcase.

 

Again, what happened to you is awful, I wonder how they got your security number. But that isn't the point, the point is, you have had your privacy invaded.

[david_sobe]

So then I guess ATM cards are basically useless?

 

I have to disagree with your opinion on bank ATMs

 

 

I am referring to using the atm that is located within the main operating area of a bank branch not those in the attached to street bank lobby kiosks and I also only advocate ATM use for emergency cash if a credit card won't work

 

Also I asked at my branch about skimmers and they said they have human eyes on the atms and they check the lobby ones 4x a day... Of course nothing is perfect

 

Either way I still haven't activated my ATM card nor do I plan to as I know to get cash from a teller and always have emergency cash available

 

Now trust me this is a big change from how I used to operate as all I ever did was ATM withdrawals but not any longer

 

And the funny thing is that I was a management trainee and then officer with the largest at the time bank in the 1980's and was actually part of the roll out team of the 24 hour ATMs but you won't catch me using one in 2015!!!

 

I guess that technology innovation has made us go back to the basics because some of the technology has backfired

 

Many here will now get all huffy and tell me I am overreacting but credit card use is much better and safer than ATM use for purchases of any kind and I still stand by my theory of ATM debit card use is for emergency cash only.....

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

What??

None of this is my opinion. I NEVER said debit cards are useless. You have many false assumptions and one of them being a bank ATM is safer. The other false assumption is a skimming device is able to be seen by the customer. Both times my debit card was compromised was at the exact bank ATM you describe. They ARE attached to the bank. This is why bank ATMS now will say cover the numbers with your hand when you punch in your code.

Just google. The biggest ATM fraud cases involve the ones attached to banks. If the bank ATMS are so safe, than why you think the bank you questioned checks the ATM 4 times a day (as you stated in your post)? Clearly they know how common the ATMS are tampered with and must have been tampered with to act that way. No one is huffy and no one is over-reacting except maybe you ;)

:)

Edited April 30, 2015 by david_sobe

[luvtheships]

What??

None of this is my opinion. I NEVER said debit cards are useless. You have many false assumptions and one of them being a bank ATM is safer. The other false assumption is a skimming device is able to be seen by the customer. Both times my debit card was compromised was at the exact bank ATM you describe. They ARE attached to the bank. This is why bank ATMS now will say cover the numbers with your hand when you punch in your code.

Just google. The biggest ATM fraud cases involve the ones attached to banks. If the bank ATMS are so safe, than why you think the bank you questioned checks the ATM 4 times a day (as you stated in your post)? Clearly they know how common the ATMS are tampered with and must have been tampered with to act that way. No one is huffy and no one is over-reacting except maybe you ;)

:)

 

I guess I should be more specific.... I don't think bank ATMs are safe at all...but I do feel that their only viable use is to get emergency cash in the safest possible ATM setup available

 

I.e. a bank lobby versus a no name ATM at the 7/11

 

And my bank "claims" to check 4x a day.... But of course I don't buy that anyway

 

As I said I don't use atms....and believe it or not my initial banking career revolved around ATMs and convincing customers they were safe ... But I digress

 

 

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[LrgPizza]

I wonder if it's a state requirement? We had to do it here. It could have been the amount too ... they got $2,500 from us. Thankfully, we got it all back, but did have to contact the police for them to investigate, and prove to the bank, etc.

It probably does vary by state, or maybe even by bank. My husband's debit card was used fraudulently or hacked 3 separate times in the past 3 months. (Each time he had been sent another card, so they were all separate.) 2 of the times, it was the bank that found the problem before he had even noticed. The third time, he noticed and called the bank. They took care of the problem, reversed the charges with the merchant, froze the card & sent him a new one, etc. He never needed to contact any merchants directly either.

[Illyria]

Can you tell me what bank this is? I'm just curious because I noticed you're from Denver. My bank (FirstBank) has a few different security procedures that if you're using a different computer you have to answer a few questions.

This is Wells Fargo. While they returned the "hacked" money the next business day, I still think it would have never happened if their website employed more advanced authentication procedures.

 

Every other website I use (Chase, US Bank and couple of other "non-bank" credit card sites) all use additional procedures: having username on first page and then password on the next page with a "security image/sound"; sending verification code if they don't recognize the computer; etc.

[HazeBombtastic]

I don't use my debit card for anything but to put gas in my car. April 21st was the last time I filled up and it was in the Atlanta area.

 

I called fandango and was able to get an email address that was used to purchase the movie tickets. They were purchased in Plantation, FL around noon and they tried it 3 times before it went through. I called the police dept in Miami but I keep getting voice mail.

 

I bank with BOA, and as of today the transactions are still pending.

 

I was venting about it to my family members today and my brother said someone had charged $9 on his Chase card out in Oregan a few days ago. His bank contacted him right away and took care of the problem. I hope these skimming devices did not make it out to Atlanta.

 

 

Mrs CrusinCritter we were in 9004 and her name starts with an "E"

Edited May 1, 2015 by HazeBombtastic

[triptolemus]

I don't use my debit card for anything but to put gas in my car. April 21st was the last time I filled up and it was in the Atlanta area.

 

Guess what one of the most popular places for credit card skimmers is? Gas pumps!

 

I called fandango and was able to get an email address that was used to purchase the movie tickets. They were purchased in Plantation, FL around noon and they tried it 3 times before it went through. I called the police dept in Miami but I keep getting voice mail.

 

The vendor will be of little help. Why are you bothering with this?

 

I bank with BOA, and as of today the transactions are still pending.

 

So you've called the police, you've called Fandango, but you haven't CALLED your bank? :confused: What the hell?

 

Mrs CrusinCritter we were in 9004 and her name starts with an "E"

 

You're still stuck on the room steward when it's pretty obvious she has nothing to do with it.

 

Deal directly with your bank...not vendors. And unless you're out thousands of dollars, the police probably aren't going to give much thought to your $30 or whatever it was -- especially in Miami.

Edited May 1, 2015 by triptolemus

[HazeBombtastic]

Guess what one of the most popular places for credit card skimmers is? Gas pumps!

 

 

 

The vendor will be of little help. Why are you bothering with this?

 

 

 

So you've called the police, you've called Fandango, but you haven't CALLED your bank? :confused: What the hell?

 

 

 

You're still stuck on the room steward when it's pretty obvious she has nothing to do with it.

 

Deal directly with your bank...not vendors. And unless you're out thousands of dollars, the police probably aren't going to give much thought to your $30 or whatever it was -- especially in Miami.

 

 

My bank already knows. Its $780.. I just wanted to collect as much information as I can to help the process go quicker.