Why I Am Not Surprised

[G&G]

That is why we very seldom book early...on any cruise line.

 

The variable then becomes what ship/itinerary will I get on. This is why we often watch pricing on several ships or several itineraries. Not all of them have excess supply, and they drop their prices at different times prior to embarkation and at different discount rates. We simply wait for our 'price' to hit and book. If it doesn't, we simply do something else.

 

Good idea!

 

As an update to my original OP, last night I received an email from HAL promoting Special Fares on Five exotic cruises. Our grandson once again received the same email from HAL last night that he received a week ago

VOV cruise for $4,999 !

 

Please HAL, show us some love :(

[Stakeout]

never get emails from HAL for a long time now..all they do is market the no stars and those with a few days..phone calls to Mariner Society a waste of time..been hearing about the not so good major changes coming soon with HAL and their new regime.. oh well.. it was a good run

 

as I sit in the Halifax terminal on the back leg of our 14 day Maasdam cruise

[qsuzi]

never get emails from HAL for a long time now..all they do is market the no stars and those with a few days..phone calls to Mariner Society a waste of time..been hearing about the not so good major changes coming soon with HAL and their new regime.. oh well.. it was a good run

 

as I sit in the Halifax terminal on the back leg of our 14 day Maasdam cruise

 

What are some of the changes?

[Nanobot]

We noticed we were not getting e-mail offers as reported on this thread. I went into the HAL website and reset the e-mail preferences and voila the e-mail for the 'Top 5 Exotic Voyages' arrived.

 

Given HAL's website issues for a number of months, it may be worth your effort to review and reset your e-mail preferences for future voyages.

[cruz chic]

never get emails from HAL for a long time now..all they do is market the no stars and those with a few days..phone calls to Mariner Society a waste of time..been hearing about the not so good major changes coming soon with HAL and their new regime.. oh well.. it was a good run

 

as I sit in the Halifax terminal on the back leg of our 14 day Maasdam cruise

 

Exactly. So many people have great ideas on how to get emails. I get plenty when I don't have a cruise booked. I get nothing when I do. It's not an email problem. I've tried signing up with all different emails. Nothing changes.

[Tante Amalie]

You are forgetting people that book in advance and take a guarantee. I'm one of those people. You do not save any money by doing that.

 

No, I'm not forgetting about people like you.

 

Ask yourself the question- why do you keep booking cruises way in advance if you truly believe that a better deal will come along later?

 

The answer to that question is the point I'm trying to make. Perhaps you want a guaranteed spot on the cruise, or a guaranteed price, or some other reason that keeps you from waiting for a better deal. Whatever your reasoning is, that's the difference in the product you are buying. If it was truly the same thing, the rational thing would be to wait and buy it at a better price. Obviously, you don't feel that way.

[cruz chic]

No, I'm not forgetting about people like you.

 

Ask yourself the question- why do you keep booking cruises way in advance if you truly believe that a better deal will come along later?

 

The answer to that question is the point I'm trying to make. Perhaps you want a guaranteed spot on the cruise, or a guaranteed price, or some other reason that keeps you from waiting for a better deal. Whatever your reasoning is, that's the difference in the product you are buying. If it was truly the same thing, the rational thing would be to wait and buy it at a better price. Obviously, you don't feel that way.

 

It's called airfare. I can't drive to the port. If I could I'd be booking the cruise a month before. It's as simple as that. I have no idea why this is such a mystery. If a person doesn't live close what else could it be? It's not like I'm hiding my location. I couldn't care less where I am on the ship so picking a cabin does nothing for me. I also plan to be employed again some day. I've lived my whole working life between fitting my holidays into deadlines. That was another reason for booking early.

[Tante Amalie]

That's my point.

 

You are worried about air fare. So you book in advance. That's perfectly reasonable.

 

The people who don't have this constraint have the luxury of waiting to see if cruise fares go down. Perhaps they live near the port. Perhaps they are willing to pay a higher air fare in exchange for a lower cruise fare.

 

The point is that you have chosen to pay a higher cruise rate in exchange for the privilege of locking in a price. THAT CHANGES WHAT YOU ARE BUYING FROM HOLLAND. There is an entire financial market for puts and calls based on this principle. So don't complain about the higher cruise price. You have chosen to pay that price in exchange for the options it gives you for better air fares. If you think it's a bad deal, don't do it. You can't have it both ways.

[cruz chic]

That's my point.

 

You are worried about air fare. So you book in advance. That's perfectly reasonable.

 

The people who don't have this constraint have the luxury of waiting to see if cruise fares go down. Perhaps they live near the port. Perhaps they are willing to pay a higher air fare in exchange for a lower cruise fare.

 

The point is that you have chosen to pay a higher cruise rate in exchange for the privilege of locking in a price. THAT CHANGES WHAT YOU ARE BUYING FROM HOLLAND. There is an entire financial market for puts and calls based on this principle. So don't complain about the higher cruise price. You have chosen to pay that price in exchange for the options it gives you for better air fares. If you think it's a bad deal, don't do it. You can't have it both ways.

 

You do not need to yell at me. I have not chosen to buy this cruise. I have it on "hold". If I don't like what I see come final I will say goodbye. Why can't hal have an early booking bonus instead of giving the farm away? There is zero reason for it? It's beyond tiresome to hear "well don't book early". If no one speaks up things never change. I have a right to my opinion without being told "don't book then" like I'm 5 years old. No wonder most of the long term posters leave this site. It's exhausting to be here now.

[jvalentine]

We have to plan for airfare as well...we purchase our flights in advance to get the flights we need to make it to the ship on time and then hold on purchasing on cruise fares for the sailing we want to go on. I just watch them and wait for what I think is the best deal for the sailing and then book it. I don't wait very last minute...usually a few months out or so and I've been happy with what we've booked and paid for.

[sapper1]

That's my point.

 

You are worried about air fare. So you book in advance. That's perfectly reasonable.

 

The people who don't have this constraint have the luxury of waiting to see if cruise fares go down. Perhaps they live near the port. Perhaps they are willing to pay a higher air fare in exchange for a lower cruise fare.

 

The point is that you have chosen to pay a higher cruise rate in exchange for the privilege of locking in a price. THAT CHANGES WHAT YOU ARE BUYING FROM HOLLAND. There is an entire financial market for puts and calls based on this principle. So don't complain about the higher cruise price. You have chosen to pay that price in exchange for the options it gives you for better air fares. If you think it's a bad deal, don't do it. You can't have it both ways.

We book in advance partly because we want our choice of cabin, but also due to flight availability. It has nothing to do with the cost of airfares. We live in a small city with a small airport that rarely has more than one plane at a gate at one time. The planes are small and they fill up. You either book well in advance for popular times or you don't go. Period.

 

We have to decide if the cruise price is acceptable to us at the time of booking and then if it goes down prior to final payment that is a bonus.

[iancal]

We buy cruises on the 'spot' market. More often than not we have air, or at least one way air, pre arranged. Plus we have a backup land plan.

 

We can leave home without knowing whether we will be cruising, on what cruise line, or for how many days. We have a general idea but our travel plans remain very fluid if a potential cruise is in the offing.

[1of4]

We book in advance too because we need a quad cabin, or adjoining cabins as we always sail as a family and the children are not old enough to be in a seperate cabin from us. I have never been willing to take a chance as we both still work and time has to be blocked off 6 months in advance, minimum.

[CowPrincess]

We book in advance too because we need a quad cabin, or adjoining cabins as we always sail as a family and the children are not old enough to be in a seperate cabin from us. I have never been willing to take a chance as we both still work and time has to be blocked off 6 months in advance, minimum.

 

Like you, we book far in advance due to work and business requirements. We realize we are very likely paying a premium but accept it as "life" :) You can bet if we were retired and lived near a port, we'd be happy to take advantage of the last-minute sales. But we can't do that right now and that is just how it is. If others can, lucky them ;)

Edited June 6, 2015 by CowPrincess

[Tante Amalie]

I think some people don't understand the difference in market value for an early booking versus a last minute booking. Why should HAL give away a secured cabin & price many months in advance if that provides people the benefit of locking in air fares on favorable terms? They can (and should) charge whatever the market will bear for this. The proof is that people are willing to pay more for this privilege. An early booking and a last minute booking for the same cruise are not the same product. You might have to pay more to get the early booking. The early booking gives you some options that later customers won't have. Why shouldn't you pay for this?

 

I guess you can whine and wish HAL would give early customers a better deal. I guess if we are going to do this, I'll wish that HAL should allow me to cruise for free. HAL is going to do what's best for them, whether you like it or not.

[jvalentine]

Tante Amalie...I'd like to sign up on the "cruising for free" list! ;) (Who am I kidding...my heart skips a beat whenever I get the paid upgrade call)

 

I agree with you whole heartedly...it is a different product.

Edited June 6, 2015 by jvalentine

[iancal]

Of course it is a different product....it has different attributes.

 

I do not hear people complaining that they paid full price for a summer dress when they see it on sale in the fall marked down by 50 or 70 percent.

[SilvertoGold]

Of course it is a different product....it has different attributes.

 

I do not hear people complaining that they paid full price for a summer dress when they see it on sale in the fall marked down by 50 or 70 percent.

 

I've used the "summer dress" comparison and been told it doesn't apply. I still think it does.

 

Having booked many cruises late and gotten very good prices, I understand it is a different product. You generally have to take a guarentee, you very, very often do not get the dining you want, some shorex can be sold out and the cabins left are very often not all that great a location.

 

None of this is a problem for me, but would be for others, perhaps.

[Tante Amalie]

Of course it is a different product....it has different attributes.

 

I do not hear people complaining that they paid full price for a summer dress when they see it on sale in the fall marked down by 50 or 70 percent.

 

Excellent point.

 

I think what we see on this board is a classic case of cognitive dissonance. Purchasing a cruise is a large financial commitment. The cheerleaders seem to us this discussion board as a way to rationalize the outlay and convince themselves that they are spending their money wisely.

[POA1]

Excellent point.

 

I think what we see on this board is a classic case of cognitive dissonance. Purchasing a cruise is a large financial commitment. The cheerleaders seem to us this discussion board as a way to rationalize the outlay and convince themselves that they are spending their money wisely.

If you visit one of the larger wedding sites, you'll certainly see plenty of complaints about price drops on dresses for brides and bridesmaids. Granted it's not exactly the spring dress, but it's certainly in the ballpark. We aren't likely to see dress price drop complaints here because it's a site about cruising. It's a pretty safe bet that if there's a complaint to be made or a grievance to be aired, somebody's b:tch:ng about it somewhere on the Internet.

[qsuzi]

If you visit one of the larger wedding sites, you'll certainly see plenty of complaints about price drops on dresses for brides and bridesmaids. Granted it's not exactly the spring dress, but it's certainly in the ballpark. We aren't likely to see dress price drop complaints here because it's a site about cruising. It's a pretty safe bet that if there's a complaint to be made or a grievance to be aired, somebody's b:tch:ng about it somewhere on the Internet.

Thank heaven we have you POA to insert humor. Some days you are what makes the difference to us and get us back to balance.This place would be darker without you.

Edited June 6, 2015 by qsuzi

[Ky Colonel]

Tante Amalie, Sorry about my tardiness in responding to your 6/2/15 post but I left for another HAL cruise when you posted it and just returned last night. I placed responsive comments in your post quoted (in relevant part) below.

 

I see that you have quite busy defending your other posts on this Thread over the last 10 or so days, so please do not feel constrained to reply to this post, other than providing the requested information about Bruce Muzz.

 

...This statement reflects a fundamental misconception about the difference between the short run incentives and a long run profitable business model. My comments only addressed HAL's pricing strategy and not its business model. As such, it appears that it is you who have a "fundamental misconception" about the substance of my post. The cruise industry is characterized by high fixed costs. Their biggest expense is fuel, which does not vary with the number of passengers. This creates an incentive to reduce prices at the last minute to maximize load factors. If there were a practical way to do it, HAL would probably be willing to give away free cabins at the dock for ships that are sailing with less than 100% occupancy. The incremental expenses are minimal and any revenue from on board spending would create "profit". If you'd bother to read my posts (and those of several other CCers), you would see that your post merely repeated what we said about HAL's pricing strategies. However, "profits" like this will lead you straight to bankruptcy. HAL has to find a business model that covers ALL costs (both fixed and variable) in the long run.

 

As far as I can tell, HAL hasn't found a way to do this. There is no direct data in the CCL public documents to support the contention that HAL is profitable. Take a look at Bruce Muzzz's comments. He has stated that HAL is losing a lot of money, and I believe it. Who is Bruce Muzz? Where (and how) did he obtain his information about HAL's precarious financial condition? And where can I find his "comments"?They serve a segment of repeat passengers on long cruises, who generally spend much less on board than the short cruise first timers.

 

By the way, when you book a cruise way in advance, it IS NOT the same product as what the people who buy the same cruise at the last minute at a deep discount. You are buying a guaranteed product at a set price. Those who wait have no such guarantee about what the price will be, what cabin they will get, or if they even can get a place on the cruise. They should get a big discount in exchange for this acceptance of risk.

 

My opinion is that HAL is stuck in a very tenuous position. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is unfounded and/or based on Bruce Muzz's non-public financial information about Carnival Corporation and its subsidiaries. I have no confidence that they can even remain in business if they don't come up with a better business model. I would suggest that you share your idea for a "better business model" with CC and HAL but I doubt that would be fruitful since you apparently have a "fundamental misconception about the difference between the short run incentives (also known as "pricing strategies") and a long run profitable business model".

[SilvertoGold]

"Bruce Muzz" is the CC screen name for a long-time Hotel Manager on many different cruise lines. I have no idea if he has worked for HAL.

[RuthC]

"Bruce Muzz" is the CC screen name for a long-time Hotel Manager on many different cruise lines. I have no idea if he has worked for HAL.

I believe he has posted that he has worked for HAL.

He has posts in many threads over the years. A search may bring some forth to read.

 

I have great faith in his factual reports about the reasons for certain procedures, what goes on on the ships, what decisions are made at the home office, etc. He very much knows what he is talking about on that score.

[SilvertoGold]

I believe he has posted that he has worked for HAL.

He has posts in many threads over the years. A search may bring some forth to read.

 

I have great faith in his factual reports about the reasons for certain procedures, what goes on on the ships, what decisions are made at the home office, etc. He very much knows what he is talking about on that score.

 

I agree, Ruth. He has been a valuable source. I didn't think his attitude to the pax would fit well with HAL, though.