Another Airline Outrage!

[idraconis]

Before my daily CC ritual I just happened to check on my return AA flight out of Miami. Well whata know, a time change. Only 15 minutes. Thing is no notification. I check (on line) they have my contact info. Nothing, Are they all drunk? So far the one thing about this airline is no one from corporate, upper management or ticket sales are flying the planes. That's my rant.

[rkacruiser]

What three airlines are you referring to which hold that monopoly? To my experience, there are generally three (or more) airlines (not always the same three) flying pretty much every route I've been interested in flying.

 

As long as there are two on any given route, the term "monopoly" is misused.

 

Delta, United, and American are the "big three" in my opinion. Yes, there are other smaller airlines. And, if you live where you are served by one of these in addition to the "big three", then you do have more choices than do I where I live.

 

DAY used to be among the more inexpensive airports from which to fly. People from Cincinnati would drive here because of the pricing. Not so much now. We now have Allegent and Southwest. But, they don't seem to be supplying the competition as to pricing to the "big three" that is making much difference.

 

I will agree that maybe my use of the word "monopoly" is a bit strong. But, I strongly maintain that for my airport of choice, airline deregulation has not been a major benefit. Before deregulation, we had daily L-1011 service to LAX. Now, we have some MD-88 and 737 service to a few destinations. Small jet service is what is mostly available. Want to get to LAX? Where do you now want to connect?

[robc1972]

AA is the worst!!

Went on a trip a few years ago, we booked flights and even checked in online the day before and got boarding passes.

Got to the the airport early, got breakfast and went to get on and were denied boarding.

It would appear that because of a slight delay the computer decided we wouldnt make connection (which was also delayed and we would have made anyway) and we were automatically re-booked to a flight the next day.

This was unacceptable and after much yelling on our part and threatening to get police on their part we were re-booked through another hub to another somewhat close to final destination airport.

Arrive at transfer point only to have them paging people on our flight to get boarding passes. Apparently they downsized the plane and anybody with a seat over row 16 (10 rows) or in the fourth seat in the rows below 16 was out of luck and had no seat and no further flights to that destination that day.

We of course were in the seats that didnt exist anymore so we decided to just rent a car and drive the 3 hours to our final destination.

When we got on at original destination we were told that we had to gate check our carry on (got on and plenty of space). Even though our bags were right outside the door and we could see them they wouldnt get them for us, they were going with the plane even though we were not.

We ended up driving an extra two hours to get our bags at planes destination.

Last time I ever flew on American and never will again, have paid more to other airlines to avoid them.

[ger_77]

My advice to the OP is to post your rant on their Facebook page. It's interesting when you put stuff there, magically your phone rings and you get to speak to people.

 

We had an incident a couple of years ago with American Airlines I'd like to relate to you. We were medically disembarked in Panama due to DH's illness which turned out to be very minor. I tried to book flights home for us online, but when it came to the payment page, I continually got an error message. I tried 3 times, and finally gave up. Ultimately I called the airline number and paid the $25 to book our tickets. Wouldn't you know, when we got home and got our next credit card statement, we paid 4 times for our flight - every time I got an error message, my credit card was charged.

 

After numerous calls to AA with no positive results, I finally posted my extreme disappointment on their FB page and within 24 hours, I had a phone call - saying they were working on it. I told them that was not good enough, that I wanted a refund, no questions asked. Within a week the 3 fares (which were not inexpensive) were credited to my credit card. We try to avoid flying with them now if at all possible.

 

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

[navybankerteacher]

It does seem that American Airlines trails when tit comes to passenger service. My preferred lines, in descending order, (with the exception of always preferring a non-stop) are Jet Blue, Southwest, Delta, Virgin America, American, Alaska, Allegant.

 

I have flown long enough to know that the cost of flying has not increased anywhere near as much as everything else over the past decades. I also remember never having many more choices of airlines point to point than

I seem to have now. THANK YOU, DEREGULATION.

 

Yes, comfort and service has declined - but not (in large part) for those willing to pay for it. For international travel, I think I prefer Aer Lingus, KLM and AirFrance - but think BA, Alitalia and Iberia fall short of their US competition.

 

Flying is not fun any more -- but what activity is as good as it used to be?

[Hlitner]

My advice to the OP is to post your rant on their Facebook page. It's interesting when you put stuff there, magically your phone rings and you get to speak to people.

 

We had an incident a couple of years ago with American Airlines I'd like to relate to you. We were medically disembarked in Panama due to DH's illness which turned out to be very minor. I tried to book flights home for us online, but when it came to the payment page, I continually got an error message. I tried 3 times, and finally gave up. Ultimately I called the airline number and paid the $25 to book our tickets. Wouldn't you know, when we got home and got our next credit card statement, we paid 4 times for our flight - every time I got an error message, my credit card was charged.

 

After numerous calls to AA with no positive results, I finally posted my extreme disappointment on their FB page and within 24 hours, I had a phone call - saying they were working on it. I told them that was not good enough, that I wanted a refund, no questions asked. Within a week the 3 fares (which were not inexpensive) were credited to my credit card. We try to avoid flying with them now if at all possible.

 

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

 

You may not be aware, but AA now carefully controls all posts to their FB Page. Any post is held, pending their review and approval. And of course they very seldom allow a complaint or anything negative.

 

Hank

[Host Walt]

I fly JAL, ANA, Asiana, Cathay Pacific, and Singapore Air every month.

Never have I experienced any problems like this.

Boy, I wish they would fly domestically in the USA.

 

My two best first class round trip flights were in coach on Singapore (Tokyo to Singapore) and Cathay Pacific (LA to Beijing). Both airlines were outstanding. Would really like to experience Biz or First in either one.

[wassup4565]

Well, actually, Air Canada doesn't receive any government subsidies and hasn't for quite some time. West Jet offers good competition to AC on many routes.

 

As for Ogdensburg, I just priced a flight to FLL for next February. For just a few dollars less I can spend anywhere from 14 to 42(!) hours making a 3 1/2 hour flight.

 

I'm not a cheerleader for Canadian Airlines but feel if they are to be criticized that it be done factually.

 

 

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I salute your patriotic support of Canada's airlines, but disagree. I won't bore people with the details, but the many ways and many times Air Canada has screwed me are not fiction. And yes, WestJet was once a better option, but it stopped competing on price several years ago, and they don't fly to many places I want to go. And no, the government doesn't hand cash to Canadian airlines as a direct subsidy. But the government strictly restricts and limits which airlines are even allowed to compete in the Canadian market. If I am allowed little choice, that is an indirect subsidy.

 

If you want facts, here you go. There is only one reason Ogdensberg and other US border cities are expanding their air operations. It's because so many Canadians are beating a path to their doors.

[Fossil1948]

It seems you don't "get what you pay for" anymore, you get what you're given

 

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[traveler279]

But the government strictly restricts and limits which airlines are even allowed to compete in the Canadian market. If I am allowed little choice, that is an indirect subsidy.

 

 

 

If you want facts, here you go. There is only one reason Ogdensberg and other US border cities are expanding their air operations. It's because so many Canadians are beating a path to their doors.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the US similarly restricts airlines operating in the US.

 

As for beating a 160 km round trip to Ogdensburg for Allegiant, I price compared them and AC.

 

Allegiant can get the two of us to FLL for $425 return - which the following screen shot shows turns into $812. I'm amused that there is a charge for a seat. Any seat. Parking for the 15 days adds another $160 CAD so not counting gas and tolls at the border I can fly Allegiant for $972 CAD.

 

Same trip and same parameters with AC - $1014. $42 difference. Sounds about the same as gas money down and back.

 

I guess I'm missing why I should take the US deal.

 

 

 

 

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Edited October 23, 2016 by traveler279

[navybankerteacher]

It seems you don't "get what you pay for" anymore, you get what you're given

 

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Yes -- you get what you are given (of course - how could you possibly get something you are not give ?)

 

But it is also the case that you are given what you pay for. If you want first class service, you might consider paying for it.

 

If airlines had not been decontrolled, flying might be nicer - it sure would be a lot more expensive -- but I have to agree that there would be fewer complaints - because there would be so many fewer people flying : they could not afford it.

[sparks1093]

We have oft advised friends (with little travel experience) that if you book a flight more then 2 months in advance (especially on a major US Airline)...one should consider the schedule as "advisory" rather then real. And it now appears that folks need to check (on a routine basis) their airline reservations since we have suffered several cases (including our most recent experience mentioned in the OP) of "changes without notification" from both AA and Delta. When it comes to US Airlines, only Southwest, JetBlue and Virgin tend to keep to their schedules (note that Southwest does not allow long range booking)...which is partially why these airlines keep coming in at the top of passenger consumer surveys. Personally, we will drive 3 hours to distant airports to fly on Southwest or Jetblue....and only use Delta/American/United when it is absolutely necessary.

 

Hank

 

Sound advice. We flew Delta to San Juan for our cruise and while checking our reservation I noticed that due to an airframe change our flight had changed and we were leaving earlier than originally scheduled. They had also relocated our seats on the first leg so that we were no longer sitting together. Minor change for sure but still it could have been worse. When we flew to Germany last year (my first flight for pleasure, all of my other flights were for business in the Navy) we flew Air France and wow, it was night and day different. Three course meal with complimentary alcohol and breakfast in the morning. I generally decry government regulation but it may be time for that when it comes to unannounced schedule changes if the industry can't regulate it and do the right thing. Going from Business to Economy without compensation? Yeah, I can't print my response to that either.:)

[Flatbush Flyer]

Sound advice. We flew Delta to San Juan for our cruise and while checking our reservation I noticed that due to an airframe change our flight had changed and we were leaving earlier than originally scheduled. They had also relocated our seats on the first leg so that we were no longer sitting together. Minor change for sure but still it could have been worse. When we flew to Germany last year (my first flight for pleasure, all of my other flights were for business in the Navy) we flew Air France and wow, it was night and day different. Three course meal with complimentary alcohol and breakfast in the morning. I generally decry government regulation but it may be time for that when it comes to unannounced schedule changes if the industry can't regulate it and do the right thing. Going from Business to Economy without compensation? Yeah, I can't print my response to that either.:)

 

 

See my post #23 above. In most cases and circumstances, United (and it's Star Alliance partners (e.g., Lufthansa) are far more communicative and accommodating than American or Delta. Note as well that United has several other non-Star Alliance relationships including one with Aer Lingus.

One of the best things United does is to notify you of schedule changes by e-mail (if, when booking or otherwise managing your reservation online, you have selected that option for notification) and provide the opportunity to approve the change or connect with an agent to look at other options.

One problem I have encountered, which was fixed when I got the change notice, was splitting our locations. This was due to a purchase of two single tickets (using different points accounts). Even though the reservations were "linked" at booking, it didn't help with the automatic seat reassignments (a quick call fixed that). Nonetheless, I have always found United willing to work on options when there's a snafu.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Flatbush Flyer

[sparks1093]

See my post #23 above. In most cases and circumstances, United (and it's Star Alliance partners (e.g., Lufthansa) are far more communicative and accommodating than American or Delta. Note as well that United has several other non-Star Alliance relationships including one with Aer Lingus.

One of the best things United does is to notify you of schedule changes by e-mail (if, when booking or otherwise managing your reservation online, you have selected that option for notification) and provide the opportunity to approve the change or connect with an agent to look at other options.

One problem I have encountered, which was fixed when I got the change notice, was splitting our locations. This was due to a purchase of two single tickets (using different points accounts). Even though the reservations were "linked" at booking, it didn't help with the automatic seat reassignments (a quick call fixed that). Nonetheless, I have always found United willing to work on options when there's a snafu.

 

I'll keep that in mind and if the fare is close I will definitely choose United but we are still in "lowest bidder" territory when it comes to airfare.

[Flatbush Flyer]

I'll keep that in mind and if the fare is close I will definitely choose United but we are still in "lowest bidder" territory when it comes to airfare.

 

 

If you haven't already done so, learn to use ITA Matrix (web or app), which provides great price comparison (no tix though) and far more flights than are often seen on airline web pages. Also, as I 'be mentioned in other posts, call airline web help numbers when you don't see all their flights (compared to ITA Matrix) or you've got complex multi-city routes that the website can't handle. Be nice in asking for a booking fee waiver and you'll probably get it.

[sparks1093]

If you haven't already done so, learn to use ITA Matrix (web or app), which provides great price comparison (no tix though) and far more flights than are often seen on airline web pages. Also, as I 'be mentioned in other posts, call airline web help numbers when you don't see all their flights (compared to ITA Matrix) or you've got complex multi-city routes that the website can't handle. Be nice in asking for a booking fee waiver and you'll probably get it.

 

I'll do that, thanks!

 

ETA: I've downloaded the app and done a search and I'm impressed. It looks like a great tool for any traveler.

Edited November 3, 2016 by sparks1093

[dwayneb236]

I'm booked on AA for February, Just a few days ago I actually got a notice emailed to me that stated there was a change in my flight. It was now leaving 5 minutes earlier than initially stated. So far I can deal with 5 minutes. So somehow I am on the list for notification.

Edited November 3, 2016 by dwayneb236

[navybankerteacher]

We have several flights booked for travel as far out as April - I think we have gotten notification of minor schedule adjustments on all of them - usually just a few minutes' tweaking either way. It is unrealistic to expect that flights booked 11 months in advance must never be changed in the least. Equipment changes, partners, unanticipated drops or surges in passenger demand all must be accommodated.

 

As long as I receive notification of such alterations - and am given the opportunity to modify my plans if necessary, I do not see any real grounds for complaint. If someone demands absolute certainty of precise take off time of a flight booked almost a year in advance, he should buy his own plane and hire his own pilot (while allowing for back-ups for both).

 

To get the sort of certainty some posters seem to want, fares would have to be so much higher that they would be complaining even louder.

[ReneeFLL]

Have to rant somewhere...so this thread is it! We are frequent travelers (out of the country about 7 months a year) and long time cruisers. So today we just happened to check on an American Airlines reservation (first class..and paid for about 6 months ago) only to find that they had changed our reservation from First Class to Coach, and had us arriving for a connecting flight about 1 hour after the flight left Chicago! A call to American got no sympathy...and when I asked why we were not even notified....they had no answer except "we will look for new options." I told the to "shove it" (words were not that nice), and give me a total refund. They said they would cancel the reservation (which does not even work) but that I would later have to go on AA.com to request a refund. My response cannot be printed, but the reservations clerk did finally take care of the refund process....and then told me it would be at least 2 weeks until we got a confirmation of the refund!

 

Is this anyway to run an airline?

 

 

But here is why I posted the rant! For First Time cruisers of anyone who is inexperienced in travel...once you have a "confirmed reservation" you need to realize that it is only "confirmed" at that time. It can be unconfirmed at any future time..and you have little recourse other then to cancel.

 

Hank

P.S. We quickly re-booked our trip with Delta...for less money and with a better schedule!

 

Sorry this happened to you. American isn't the only airline that does this and there are many reasons why there can be changes.

 

The cruise lines also cancel cruises. One reason which I think is appalling is to charter it out to another company for more money. Passengers have already scheduled flights, requested vacation time, planned out trip excursions, spent days imagining the fun they will have, etc. To me this is a very sad abuse for money. Then they give you only a few options which usually don't work out very well for most people.

 

I have been well aware of airline changes and cancellations, but when I found out (thanks to CC) that the cruise lines will cancel everyone on a cruise just to charter it out to another company I was truly shocked.

Edited November 6, 2016 by ReneeFLL

[jmckay331]

Had similar experience where delta changed our flight time instead of 3pm it was now 6:15am while it sucks that it's now so early at least we won't miss our connecting flight. We will just end up hanging out at LAX MUCH longer than originally planned. We did get an email notification and the option to reschedule if time didn't work but we stuck with the early flight as it was nonstop vs all others having one or more connections. I wanted to limit connections as we have an international flight that same day with a connection and three flights is enough 4-5 would be ridiculous.

 

 

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[Hlitner]

Sorry this happened to you. American isn't the only airline that does this and there are many reasons why there can be changes.

 

The cruise lines also cancel cruises. One reason which I think is appalling is to charter it out to another company for more money. Passengers have already scheduled flights, requested vacation time, planned out trip excursions, spent days imagining the fun they will have, etc. To me this is a very sad abuse for money. Then they give you only a few options which usually don't work out very well for most people.

 

I have been well aware of airline changes and cancellations, but when I found out (thanks to CC) that the cruise lines will cancel everyone on a cruise just to charter it out to another company I was truly shocked.

 

Our issue is less about changes but about the fact that they changed us to an impossible itinerary (connecting flight leaves before the our newly scheduled flight even arrives) and gave us absolutely no notice. Their customer service rep admitted that the system showed no record of any notification....and said it was very possible we would never have received a notification. So about 24 hours before our flights (when we normally would have done the online check-in process and printed out boarding passes) would have possibly been the first indication that our first flight did not even exist, and connecting to our 2nd flight was impossible.

 

As to some follow-up info....AA did finally refund our entire fare (over $2000) after nearly 3 weeks (they do not give customers 3 weeks to pay for a ticket). It also appears that AA has a software glitch that fails to notify some passengers of changes. We have been in their frequent flyer program (for decades) and they have our e-mails, phone numbers, etc. Personally, the only way we will fly this airline again is if they are literally the last game in town.

 

Hank

P.S, Happened to fly Jetblue today. Their flight schedule never changed, plane left the gate 5 min early and arrived at destination 10 min early. Plenty of leg room, free wifi, leather seats, free snacks, free cans (not small cups) of soft drinks, etc. That is how to run an airline.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Hlitner

[sparks1093]

Our issue is less about changes but about the fact that they changed us to an impossible itinerary (connecting flight leaves before the our newly scheduled flight even arrives) and gave us absolutely no notice. Their customer service rep admitted that the system showed no record of any notification....and said it was very possible we would never have received a notification. So about 24 hours before our flights (when we normally would have done the online check-in process and printed out boarding passes) would have possibly been the first indication that our first flight did not even exist, and connecting to our 2nd flight was impossible.

 

As to some follow-up info....AA did finally refund our entire fare (over $2000) after nearly 3 weeks (they do not give customers 3 weeks to pay for a ticket). It also appears that AA has a software glitch that fails to notify some passengers of changes. We have been in their frequent flyer program (for decades) and they have our e-mails, phone numbers, etc. Personally, the only way we will fly this airline again is if they are literally the last game in town.

 

Hank

P.S, Happened to fly Jetblue today. Their flight schedule never changed, plane left the gate 5 min early and arrived at destination 10 min early. Plenty of leg room, free wifi, leather seats, free snacks, free cans (not small cups) of soft drinks, etc. That is how to run an airline.

 

Were they going to at least refund you the difference between Business class and economy? (I apologize if that's been answered already.)

[Hlitner]

Were they going to at least refund you the difference between Business class and economy? (I apologize if that's been answered already.)

 

That issue was "open to negotiation" but could not be determined until we actually found alternative flights. With the exception of Southwest Airlines, getting a partial refund can be complex. In the case of AA it is often easier to just cancel for a full refund and then rebook (this is based on prior experience). In our situation is just made more sense to totally cancel with AA and start anew with Delta.

 

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

Somewhat related: if you use points for business class where there's a connecting flight(s) and equipment or other issues find you moved to an "economy" seat for part of that routing, it will require some finesse and aplomb in getting points returned to your bank (since you did fly "business" for part of the routing).

 

Also, when onboard problems occur (at least on United), it never hurts to ask a flight attendant for a "compensation certificate" with information you submit on line to retrieve a credit good for future travel.

 

One more little tip: if you ever get stuck between connections at a hub airport due to weather (or anything else not the responsibility of the airline), ask the gate agent if s/he has discount certificates for local hotels/food/etc. Again, United provides these in situations like winter storm at ORD. A backup plan: get the Hotel Tonight app for your phone. It downloads a short list of nearby hotels with lower rates for that night.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Flatbush Flyer