"This might be YOUR vacation, but it's MY life"

[bUU]

Which is why I simplified it. Again: Given that the reason why the cruise lines want honest reviews is to make decisions on which employees to keep and which to let go, how would you get the passengers to provide that input, other than how they are doing it now?

 

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[Cuizer2]

Which is why I simplified it. Again: Given that the reason why the cruise lines want honest reviews is to make decisions on which employees to keep and which to let go, how would you get the passengers to provide that input, other than how they are doing it now?

 

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The problem is not the survey, it is the rating system. 10 = good, 1 through 9 = bad. And worst of all, a one and a nine is treated the same. Also blaming the servers for the food is a problem. The food rating should go to the cooks, not the wait staff. Maybe the passengers should start blaming the cruise lines for the weather. Then perhaps the cruise lines would understand what it is like to blame the waiters and waitresses for the food.

[bUU]

The problem is not the survey, it is the rating system. 10 = good, 1 through 9 = bad.

First, that is not how the cruise line presents the survey. That's how people who wish to over emotionalize the matter insist on presenting it.

 

Second, you have ignored the undeniable premise. The cruise line wants only the best people working for them, they have a right to that, and they have a large enough pool of candidates that it is likely that a new employee could exceed the performance of an employee who passengers find so inadequate that they give them less than perfect scores.

 

The jobs are hard. No surprise. We Americans are greatly privileged by comparison. No surprise. That doesn't rationalize depriving the cruise line of their right to pursue providing you service as close to perfection as they can find.

 

 

 

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

We as consumers have no idea how to rate performance.

 

Those being rated do tell us that only a perfect score is acceptable. Happened to me last week at Honda dealership, 3 weeks before at Audi and recently with my cable company.

 

Some day companies will realize this.

 

I give 8's and 9's all the time. And that's if I'm happy.

 

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[bUU]

We as consumers have no idea how to rate performance.

Interesting thesis. I wonder how many passengers would agree that they are clueless with regard to how satisfied they are with the service they have received.

 

Those being rated do tell us that only a perfect score is acceptable.

And they couldn't possibly be biased... Is that your implication? Are you saying you believe that every cabin attendant who ever received even one 9 was thrown off the ship at the next opportunity? What are you actually saying here?

 

Some day companies will realize this.

The suggestion that the cruise lines doesn't know "this" flies in the face of every comment every posted on Cruise Critic claiming that cruise lines read Cruise Critic and every implication any Cruise Critic poster ever posted that it makes sense to post their anecdotal, unique complaints here.

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

Interesting thesis. I wonder how many passengers would agree that they are clueless with regard to how satisfied they are with the service they have received.

 

And they couldn't possibly be biased... Is that your implication? Are you saying you believe that every cabin attendant who ever received even one 9 was thrown off the ship at the next opportunity? What are you actually saying here?

 

The suggestion that the cruise lines doesn't know "this" flies in the face of every comment every posted on Cruise Critic claiming that cruise lines read Cruise Critic and every implication any Cruise Critic poster ever posted that it makes sense to post their anecdotal, unique complaints here.

 

 

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1st) I never said they were clueless of how they feel, I said they don't know how to rate performance. Putting that down on a survey is where it falls apart. Being swayed by a sob story, not filling it in at all, worried that someone will lose their job, etc., etc., etc.

 

2nd) Once again you are putting words in my mouth, BTW you are very good at that. All I said was service industry employees that are held to a customer driven rating system very often beg for high, even perfect scores.

 

3rd) Research my posts, I have never said that Royal gives a care about what is posted here. They seem to be more FB driven. CC is small potatoes compared to FB. However, that is not what I meant anyway. What I meant is that one day companies will come up with another matrix that is more efficient. Maybe something like the red button green button that TSA uses. :D

[Crusingdiva62]

First, that is not how the cruise line presents the survey. That's how people who wish to over emotionalize the matter insist on presenting it.

 

Second, you have ignored the undeniable premise. The cruise line wants only the best people working for them, they have a right to that, and they have a large enough pool of candidates that it is likely that a new employee could exceed the performance of an employee who passengers find so inadequate that they give them less than perfect scores.

 

The jobs are hard. No surprise. We Americans are greatly privileged by comparison. No surprise. That doesn't rationalize depriving the cruise line of their right to pursue providing you service as close to perfection as they can find.

 

 

 

 

 

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As someone who is in management for a company that uses this system it is real. I have had to do final warnings and fire over these types of results. Good agents who happened to get a call from someone upset with a procedure and not the rep themselves. The expectation is for them to some how get a 10. I have had people call back after realizing they meant to give a 10 but typed in 01 instead. It only takes one less than 10 to kill a month for a rep. 1-9 are negatives and so reps know they need to get so many more to bring that average back up and not get on a warning. It has cost reps not getting raises before. I know what I am talking about because I have to coach to it daily with my reps !

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

Unfortunately for a 9 out of 10 to be 'bad' is a ridiculous system.

 

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[Cuizer2]

First, that is not how the cruise line presents the survey. That's how people who wish to over emotionalize the matter insist on presenting it.

 

Second, you have ignored the undeniable premise. The cruise line wants only the best people working for them, they have a right to that, and they have a large enough pool of candidates that it is likely that a new employee could exceed the performance of an employee who passengers find so inadequate that they give them less than perfect scores.

 

The jobs are hard. No surprise. We Americans are greatly privileged by comparison. No surprise. That doesn't rationalize depriving the cruise line of their right to pursue providing you service as close to perfection as they can find.

 

 

 

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Actually I have heard several CDs public announcements that anything less than the top score is failing. Nonetheless, I will give the score that I think the person deserves. It is not just the cruise lines that use this system. There are other companies in all sorts of industries that consider anything less than the top score to be a failure.

 

Finally I have not ignored anything. If you read ALL my posts, which clearly you have not, you would see that I agree with the highlighted statement.

[Cuizer2]

Interesting thesis. I wonder how many passengers would agree that they are clueless with regard to how satisfied they are with the service they have received.

 

And they couldn't possibly be biased... Is that your implication? Are you saying you believe that every cabin attendant who ever received even one 9 was thrown off the ship at the next opportunity? What are you actually saying here?

 

The suggestion that the cruise lines doesn't know "this" flies in the face of every comment every posted on Cruise Critic claiming that cruise lines read Cruise Critic and every implication any Cruise Critic poster ever posted that it makes sense to post their anecdotal, unique complaints here.

 

 

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You have completely misstated when both John and I have said. Are you just looking to cause trouble?

[grapau27]

First, that is not how the cruise line presents the survey. That's how people who wish to over emotionalize the matter insist on presenting it.

 

Second, you have ignored the undeniable premise. The cruise line wants only the best people working for them, they have a right to that, and they have a large enough pool of candidates that it is likely that a new employee could exceed the performance of an employee who passengers find so inadequate that they give them less than perfect scores.

 

The jobs are hard. No surprise. We Americans are greatly privileged by comparison. No surprise. That doesn't rationalize depriving the cruise line of their right to pursue providing you service as close to perfection as they can find.

 

 

 

 

 

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Your posts have opened my eyes at a new way of looking at the survey.

Well done for all your interesting posts.

 

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[grapau27]

We as consumers have no idea how to rate performance.

 

Those being rated do tell us that only a perfect score is acceptable. Happened to me last week at Honda dealership, 3 weeks before at Audi and recently with my cable company.

 

Some day companies will realize this.

 

I give 8's and 9's all the time. And that's if I'm happy.

 

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This is probably the true ratings crew deserve but it means they are good- very good but not excellent and also not bad.

 

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[grapau27]

1st) I never said they were clueless of how they feel, I said they don't know how to rate performance. Putting that down on a survey is where it falls apart. Being swayed by a sob story, not filling it in at all, worried that someone will lose their job, etc., etc., etc.

 

2nd) Once again you are putting words in my mouth, BTW you are very good at that. All I said was service industry employees that are held to a customer driven rating system very often beg for high, even perfect scores.

 

3rd) Research my posts, I have never said that Royal gives a care about what is posted here. They seem to be more FB driven. CC is small potatoes compared to FB. However, that is not what I meant anyway. What I meant is that one day companies will come up with another matrix that is more efficient. Maybe something like the red button green button that TSA uses. :D

It is a crying shame if very good crew are reduced to begging for good scores to keep their jobs.

If someone gives scores of 7 or less these should be looked at more closely with questions asked why the score was low.

 

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[bUU]

I never said ... All I said was ... I have never said that ...

That's pretty much my point: You haven't really said anything that is definitive. Either the passengers can assess their own satisfaction or they cannot. Which? Either the cruise line wants honest appraisal from passengers or they do not. Which? Either they understand both that the crew has tried to influence the ratings, and that there will be some small grade inflation due to that external tampering, or they do not. Which? You cannot have it both ways. Please tell us which.

 

And please do remember what we're discussing:

 

First: The cruise line solicits feedback because they want the passenger's view of how well service workers provided them service. Second: The cruise line wants only the best people working for them, they have a right to that, and they have a large enough pool of candidates that it is likely that a new employee could exceed the performance of an employee who passengers find so inadequate that they give them less than perfect scores.

 

It is that simple.

 

As someone who is in management for a company that uses this system it is real.

And so therefore you also know that it is an excellent metric for tracking how well a service worker can delight a customer even in light of difficult circumstances. The best that I've seen in the appraisals I've conducted over many years are able to take situations where products have utterly failed and make the customer feel like they're being paid attention to, being empathized with, and being served as well as possible despite the circumstances. That's who the cruise lines likely want working for them.

 

Actually I have heard several CDs public announcements that anything less than the top score is failing.

You mentioned earlier the impact of these scores. Are you one of those who try to claim that a 2 or a 3 is the exact same thing as an 8 or 9? If so, that's just more of the same nonsense I referred to earlier. All four grades are less than perfect, and therefore not up to the desired standard, but there is no rational basis to claim that they are precisely the same in effect.

 

You have completely misstated when both John and I have said. Are you just looking to cause trouble?

Not at all. No one wants tangents to stand as the last word, especially when the misinformation that concerns me is as likely as not to feed into lesser service quality. These appraisal systems are important and so anything that I see feeds into people being inclined against providing honest answers is something that I believe has a significant negative impact on the enjoyment of every Cruise Critic member's vacations. Edited July 6, 2017 by bUU

[John&LaLa]

Long ago I was given some good advice - Never argue with idiots . Onlookers only see two idiots arguing .

You sir, are spot on. You might add never question a former instructor, they never, ever concede their point.

 

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[John&LaLa]

That's pretty much my point: You haven't really said anything that is definitive. Either the passengers can assess their own satisfaction or they cannot. Which? Either the cruise line wants honest appraisal from passengers or they do not. Which? Either they understand both that the crew has tried to influence the ratings, and that there will be some small grade inflation due to that external tampering, or they do not. Which? You cannot have it both ways. Please tell us which.

 

And please do remember what we're discussing:

 

First: The cruise line solicits feedback because they want the passenger's view of how well service workers provided them service. Second: The cruise line wants only the best people working for them, they have a right to that, and they have a large enough pool of candidates that it is likely that a new employee could exceed the performance of an employee who passengers find so inadequate that they give them less than perfect scores.

 

It is that simple.

 

And so therefore you also know that it is an excellent metric for tracking how well a service worker can delight a customer even in light of difficult circumstances. The best that I've seen in the appraisals I've conducted over many years are able to take situations where products have utterly failed and make the customer feel like they're being paid attention to, being empathized with, and being served as well as possible despite the circumstances. That's who the cruise lines likely want working for them.

 

You mentioned earlier the impact of these scores. Are you one of those who try to claim that a 2 or a 3 is the exact same thing as an 8 or 9? If so, that's just more of the same nonsense I referred to earlier. All four grades are less than perfect, and therefore not up to the desired standard, but there is no rational basis to claim that they are precisely the same in effect.

 

Not at all. No one wants tangents to stand as the last word, especially when the misinformation that concerns me is as likely as not to feed into lesser service quality. These appraisal systems are important and so anything that I see feeds into people being inclined against providing honest answers is something that I believe has a significant negative impact on the enjoyment of every Cruise Critic member's vacations.

As I said earlier, you are so very good at belittling people. Carry on.

 

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[bUU]

As I said earlier, you are so very good at belittling people. Carry on.

I'm sorry you've decided to stoop to personal attack and evasion instead of engaging in a polite and courteous discussion with integrity, with someone with whom you have a disagreement. Nothing I said was belittling. I presented points you didn't agree with, and didn't see fit to respond to. There's a difference.

 

Carry on.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

I guess we understand the importance of reviews and ratings on our cruises...

 

Bottom line - ratings are earned, not provided by default or false experiences.

 

If the cruise is well executed by the ship's staff...then kudos are in order.

 

If not...

 

That's likely how most folks "score" things on their reviews.

[bUU]

Maybe it's just us Georgia folks who see things that way.

[marci22]

I think the problem with the survey is that it wants to cover a wide variety of topics (the WJ, the MDR, specialty, excursions, ports of call talks, ports of call info etc) with one number each. Onboard, we are repeatedly told in the MDR that less than 10 is failing. It happens all week long. It's hard not to take that into consideration when filling out the survey.

 

For MDR (MTD) I thought my servers were 10, the food was 7-8, the atmosphere/seating system was 3. They want me to just pick a number. I did, and it wasn't a 10, and I don't blame the servers for it, and I wrote that in my survey.

 

I've been told to choose the 10 and write about problems in another part of the survey, but I don't think it catches their attention (survey reader). If you give a 10, why are you complaining?

[marci22]

I'm sorry you've decided to stoop to personal attack and evasion instead of engaging in a polite and courteous discussion with integrity, with someone with whom you have a disagreement. Nothing I said was belittling. I presented points you didn't agree with, and didn't see fit to respond to. There's a difference.

 

Carry on.

 

You did seem condescending in some of your posts. Just letting you know.

[bUU]

If you give a 10, why are you complaining?

Great question, but my concern perhaps indicates why they are: Perhaps they want to enlist others into compromising the cruise line's appraisal system. Alternatively, perhaps they just want to take the cruise line down a notch by casting aspersions on its management system that are not justifiable based on industry standard and the state of the art. I'd be concerned about that as well.

 

You did seem condescending in some of your posts. Just letting you know.

People cannot determine each other's tone in online discussions. It is therefore easy to perceive anything someone presents from the perspective of a career's worth of experience as condescension. Folks can ask when it is a concern: I'll assure them that I'm simply relaying what I know based on experience, not condescending.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

Maybe it's just us Georgia folks who see things that way.

Not even close.

 

Read any cruise review thread...and you'll see a diverse set of views from around the world.

 

Most folks on Oasis class ships post that they are pleased, but not everyone can be made happy (about anything in a few cases). There's also a littering of naysayers and negative Nancys/Neds who often post just to vent, even about the most miniscule of issues.

 

Right or wrong...in the real world...these kinds of reactions/responses/reviews apply to nearly any topic on any forum.

 

Anyone who has not experienced sailing on an Oasis class ship themselves (or any other vessel for that matter) has a limited view of reality for those specific sailings. Most people here realize that.

[marci22]

Way too early for me to be :rolleyes:

[John&LaLa]

Maybe it's just us Georgia folks who see things that way.

Former Georgian, try again.

 

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