Star Azipod News and progress

[MargateKev]

Seems that two tugs "Tom Tough" and "Hastings" have reached the Star and now have her in tow for the past 30 minutes, currently travelling at 4.7 knots.

[hypercafe]

Since they are now dead in the water they must have sailed with only one working unit out of two. That is allowed by the coast guard ?

[Portybelly]

Marine Traffic now indicating arrival time at Melbourne as 12th Feb at 0200 utc +11 (local time, Sunday).

And they expect it to be fixed, cross the Tasman and be in Auckland for next Saturday am? Aye right...

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Forums mobile app

[geezer466]

Since they are now dead in the water they must have sailed with only one working unit out of two. That is allowed by the coast guard ?

 

It would be the Marine Safety Branch of whichever Nation the ship is currently in...

 

And yes most of the World's shipping only has one main drive shaft and one screw......

[chengkp75]

It would be the Marine Safety Branch of whichever Nation the ship is currently in...

 

And yes most of the World's shipping only has one main drive shaft and one screw......

 

It would be a combination of the Marine Safety board of the "port state" the ship is planning on leaving, as well as the maritime agency of the flag state, and the classification society that acts as the insurance underwriter for the ship. As you say, probably 95% or more of the world's shipping have only one propeller, directly connected to one engine, unlike cruise ships which have at least two propellers and multiple engines that can power those propellers.

[richstowe]

NCL is probably dealing with the current cruise. They probably can't make any decisions on the following cruises until they assess this situation and what has to happen to fix it etc. The itineraries for the Asia/Australia/NZ cruises make it tricky as each one is not a round trip. It requires the Star to get to a final destination by a due date. I'm on the 18th Feb cruise, which I now believe will not arrive/depart Auckland as scheduled. I'm not expecting to hear anything until they have assessed the situation and come up with a definite plan.

Another problem is Miami office is probably closed as day here is night there.

I'm guessing most would be satisfied if NCL allowed those with upcoming cruises to cancel with no or reduced penalty .That decision they could and should make .

[soloadventurer]

Marine Safety will have to do a report and i'm guessing visit the ship - given the fact she has required two tugs. i'd also say the ship made a pan pan call to the coastguard

[VK3DQ]

It would be a combination of the Marine Safety board of the "port state" the ship is planning on leaving, as well as the maritime agency of the flag state, and the classification society that acts as the insurance underwriter for the ship. As you say, probably 95% or more of the world's shipping have only one propeller, directly connected to one engine, unlike cruise ships which have at least two propellers and multiple engines that can power those propellers.

 

Port state can detain the ship with a defect notice , but the flag state can issue an exemption and the ship can proceed , this ship has a long history of propulsion issues which should have raised red flags , the ship was without power is a seaway which is renown for its bad weather, I say again they have no concept of how lucky they have been , the ship could have been lost they were 32KM off shore a southerly weather front going through would have had them ashore in less than a day

 

 

Regards

 

John

[herdingdogmom]

Currently on the Star. Certainly the announcement at 8:00am was a shock, but all is calm. I haven't seen anyone crying nor any protests or the like. Many of us crammed on the internet today making arrangements.

 

Captain made many announcements today with updates. Tug has had us moving for 3 + hours.

 

Staff is great. We saw the helicopter today, but haven't seen the footage yet. Would love to see a clip of the sight of the tugs pulling the Star into the harbor.

 

We are flying to New Zealand and will continue on with our vacation. Several people we have talked to are headed home. Sure hope the port in Melbourne isn't a zoo Sat. and Sunday.

[geezer466]

Port state can detain the ship with a defect notice , but the flag state can issue an exemption and the ship can proceed , this shp has a long history of propulsion issues which should have raised red flags , the ship was without power is a seaway which is renown for its bad weather, I say again they have no concept of how lucky they have been , the ship could have been lost

 

 

Regards

 

John

 

Bit of a dramatic statement....... A Technically qualified poster has already mentioned the ship retained its bow thrusters and this gives it the ability to maneuver in heavy seas and that the ship is already under the auspices of Maritime agencies regarding it's safety.

[soloadventurer]

To be honest working in the shipping industry including towage and pilotage - John has a point

[B35]

I'm guessing most would be satisfied if NCL allowed those with upcoming cruises to cancel with no or reduced penalty .That decision they could and should make .

We'd even be happy if NCL gave us the option of transferring the balance of the money of this cruise over to another another NCL cruise. As it is, by the time an announcement is made, it'll be too late to book an alternative holiday.

[VK3DQ]

Bit of a dramatic statement....... A Technically qualified poster has already mentioned the ship retained its bow thrusters and this gives it the ability to maneuver in heavy seas and that the ship is already under the auspices of Maritime agencies regarding it's safety.

 

With your azipods gone you cannot steer the ship , at best you can use your bow thrusters to keep the ships head or stern into the wind ..thats all they wont stop you running out of sea room , in an area where 6mtr seas are commonplace ... if anything I understated the risk

 

 

Regards

 

John RN Retired

[chengkp75]

To be honest working in the shipping industry including towage and pilotage - John has a point

 

I know of no way that a flag state can overrule a port state detention, and I've looked at sites for port state laws specifically in Australia, and don't see anything. Since the port state authority controls the pilotage and harbor master in the port, they can control whether the ship leaves or not. Also, the ship did leave both the ports of Sydney and Melbourne with only one working azipod, so obviously the Australian marine safety agency approved the sailing, and the safety of the vessel to depart with one working azipod.

 

During a port state control inspection, if the Master advises the inspectors that there is a pre-existing condition (like only one azipod working), that cannot be a cause for detention unless the ship intends to sail without rectifying the problem. Obviously, the port state inspectors in any of the Australian ports visited did not find any reason to detain the vessel.

[VK3DQ]

I know of no way that a flag state can overrule a port state detention, and I've looked at sites for port state laws specifically in Australia, and don't see anything. Since the port state authority controls the pilotage and harbor master in the port, they can control whether the ship leaves or not. Also, the ship did leave both the ports of Sydney and Melbourne with only one working azipod, so obviously the Australian marine safety agency approved the sailing, and the safety of the vessel to depart with one working azipod.

 

During a port state control inspection, if the Master advises the inspectors that there is a pre-existing condition (like only one azipod working), that cannot be a cause for detention unless the ship intends to sail without rectifying the problem. Obviously, the port state inspectors in any of the Australian ports visited did not find any reason to detain the vessel.

 

Might I suggest some reading MAiB uk accident reports is a good place to start , many flag states issue exemptions that permit ships to sail with defects , it happens all the time where owners dont want to pay high prices for repairs they get an exemption to sail to a nominated port to do the repairs ..its common practice , the little bit of paper fixes things ..... little bit of paper that allow a vessel to sail with only one person on the bridge keeping watch , he goes to sleep and the ship runs aground ..think it cannot happen think again

 

Have a look at this , two ship collide on one of the there is no one on the bridge

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/darojaerin-wood-report-published

 

Might I also suggest reading "Ferry Down" by Brian Callison which will provide an understanding of FOC States

 

Regards

 

John

Edited February 10, 2017 by VK3DQ

[teamflames]

I'm guessing most would be satisfied if NCL allowed those with upcoming cruises to cancel with no or reduced penalty .That decision they could and should make .

 

 

Exactly... They have been leaving customers in limbo for weeks now. There is no way any cruisers can plan any port visits.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

[VK3DQ]

Exactly... They have been leaving customers in limbo for weeks now. There is no way any cruisers can plan any port visits.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

 

NCL need to withdraw the ship from service until the problems are fixed, no one should sail on her again until she is safe, NCL should compensate passengers accordingly

 

regards

 

john

[teamflames]

NCL need to withdraw the ship from service until the problems are fixed, no one should sail on her again until she is safe, NCL should compensate passengers accordingly

 

 

 

regards

 

 

 

john

 

 

Most of us agree but obviously the managers of NCL have some serious bonuses coming their way and can't afford to put their customers safety first.

It is mind boggling why they are not giving customers the choice to cancel.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

[timbom]

Was scheduled to take a Celebrity Mellinimum cruise three years ago in Alaska. They had a similar problem with one pod. After several attempts to repair (and many missed ports) the US Coast guard forced them to shut down operations of ship in Alaska and get immediate repairs (Celebrity like NCL wanted to continue to sail at reduced speed till they could make repair). Only shipyard available was in Freeport.

 

They paid for all passenger costs, issued half credit to all booked while the repairs (pod was replaced) were made, It took over a month to sail to Freeport where it met up with a new pod shipped from England and back to Alaska.

 

As I remember in discussion at the time Roles Royce who made these pods was being sued for the faulty design. Don't know what happened to that suit.

 

Question really is why did no safety organization in these countries shut down NCL operations? I suspect there was a lot of political pressure put on the Australian Coast guard not to do this!!

[chengkp75]

Might I suggest some reading MAiB uk accident reports is a good place to start , many flag states issue exemptions that permit ships to sail with defects , it happens all the time where owners dont want to pay high prices for repairs they get an exemption to sail to a nominated port to do the repairs ..its common practice , the little bit of paper fixes things ..... little bit of paper that allow a vessel to sail with only one person on the bridge keeping watch , he goes to sleep and the ship runs aground ..think it cannot happen think again

 

Have a look at this , two ship collide on one of the there is no one on the bridge

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/darojaerin-wood-report-published

 

Might I also suggest reading "Ferry Down" by Brian Callison which will provide an understanding of FOC States

 

Regards

 

John

 

It is my experience that if the flag state disputes the port state detention, the port state can decide whether or not the ship can proceed to the next port for repairs, or to a "suitable" port, but once detained by a port state, the flag state has little it can do, except present their case, and request a provisional release.

 

Not sure how the case you cited applies, as the ship in question was never inspected, and the report even states that based on the company's prior problems, the ship should have been inspected and the deficiencies corrected.

 

In this case, there has been media attention, particularly in Australia over the Star, so the Australian Maritime Agency would have been well aware of the propulsion problem, and if they did not feel that a port state inspection was necessary, then that is their decision, nothing to do with the flag state. And once Australia does a port state inspection, and it could have been done at each and every port from Darwin on, had they determined the ship was unsafe to sail on one azipod, then the ship would have been detained, and there is nothing the flag state could do. I willingly agree that certain registries have "shady" regulations or enforcement, but that is why the port state has the ability to override the flag state in ensuring compliance with international codes.

 

So, in my opinion, the Australian maritime authority felt the ship was safe to sail, with passengers, from each and every port it has visited in Australia.

[B35]

How rare is it that both Azipods seem to be failing independently? That would seem very, very rare?

[chengkp75]

NCL need to withdraw the ship from service until the problems are fixed, no one should sail on her again until she is safe, NCL should compensate passengers accordingly

 

regards

 

john

 

And you know the problems haven't been fixed previously? You know that it is the same component failing each time? I don't. How do you "fix it until it is safe?" Do you throw out the entire propulsion system and replace it? How long do you test a component to see that it won't fail? Do we know whether the components that have failed this time have ever failed before in the ship's 16 year history? I'm all for fixing what's broke, and I've lived my entire professional career believing and practicing preventative maintenance, but how do you predict failures that may have never occurred before?

[SeaVitamins]

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/after-power-loss-norwegian-star-will-be-towed-to-melbourne.html

[chengkp75]

How rare is it that both Azipods seem to be failing independently? That would seem very, very rare?

 

It is historically very rare. The problem is that none of us here know what each and every failure was caused by, in a very large and complicated system, and whether or not there is a repetitive failure of a component or whether this is something based on NCL's maintenance plan, or whether it is a factor of the system's age that the manufacturer nor any other user has seen before, and could result in changes to the recommended service intervals for certain items.

[B35]

It is historically very rare. The problem is that none of us here know what each and every failure was caused by, in a very large and complicated system, and whether or not there is a repetitive failure of a component or whether this is something based on NCL's maintenance plan, or whether it is a factor of the system's age that the manufacturer nor any other user has seen before, and could result in changes to the recommended service intervals for certain items.

Doesn't the Star have a "sister" ship in the Sun (I may be wrong). That ship doesn't appear to have suffered any problems.