Ultra Beverage Program is a Ripoff

[ColeThornton]

Good point. :)

 

Although I suspect I’m not the only person who doesn’t review the entire thread before every post to check exactly what each person has said. :)

 

 

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Which is one of the reasons why so many threads hang around waaaaay longer than they need to. ;)

[April42749]

I'm still thinking about this and the more I read, the more my answer changes. :eek:

 

I just read that "An 18% gratuity will automatically be added to guest's accounts for dining options and spa treatments not included in the cruise fare."

So that makes me think that they aren't included since specialty restaurants aren't included in the cruise fare. That kinda makes sense since people who don't go to specialty restaurants shouldn't have their DSC given to specialty staff just as people (who don't have a butler/concierge) shouldn't have the DSC go to the butler/concierge. Some restaurant staff work both the MDR and the specialty restaurants so I have no idea how that works.

 

I tip both DSC and non-DSC staff if I feel like it.

 

This is my 2 cents:

 

When you are platinum, 2 meals are included with your fare.....as are the drinks in the Latitudes Event....so nothing is added or mandatory. It's a gift from NCL!

 

 

When you book and get "free meals and drinks" they are giving you a package that is for sale, and if you purchased it you'd have tips added. So, although the package itself is free, you are still responsible for the tip. The fare itself is higher than guarantee only because you can choose your cabin (generally a steep premium to pay to choose..but that's the way it is).

 

It's like being invited to dinner vs a Groupon. If someone invites you they generally don't expect you to pay anything. If someone gives you a Groupon, you're supposed to tip based on the value of the meal.

[Moby0215]

I was just answering a question.

 

 

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I️ know. I️ was just making sure they had all the info.

 

 

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[Moby0215]

Sorry, but that fact IS missing. The word "unlimited" was, in fact, used by the poster that I quoted (3 different times) and was referring to in my post. That person even tried to imply that the word was used in the T&C to apply to drinks under $15, when it clearly does not.

 

 

 

Yes I️ used the word unlimited but only because I️ was replying to someone else’s post. And my point was that yes it is unlimited with regard to the terms. Your scenario may be one of the restrictions but that’s has to do with over serving and that is a whole different issue. That’s more common sense. Most people know that a bar, any bar, not just in a cruise has a legal responsibility to not serve someone who is too drunk. Check the wording here:

 

https://www.ncl.com/cruise-deals/choice

 

It may not be the terms but NCL certainly does use the term unlimited.

 

 

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Edited December 17, 2017 by Moby0215

[SeaShark]

Yes I️ used the word unlimited but only because I️ was replying to someone else’s post. And my point was that yes it is unlimited with regard to the terms. Your scenario may be one of the restrictions but that’s has to do with over serving and that is a whole different issue. That’s more common sense. Most people know that a bar, any bar, not just in a cruise has a legal responsibility to not serve someone who is too drunk. Check the wording here:

 

https://www.ncl.com/cruise-deals/choice

 

It may not be the terms but NCL certainly does use the term unlimited.

 

 

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What does it say that you argue about "over serving" and "too drunk" when I specifically said there was no consumption?

 

BTW, it IS in the terms, but only for soda and juices...not referring to alcohol.

[Two Wheels Only]

Yes...those servers ARE covered by the DSC. This has been previously discussed on these forums and has been verified by HD's on the ships. They benefit from the DSC, they benefit from the automatic gratuity, and they benefit from people leaving cash tips. It is an incentive to the worker to take the specialty restaurant position.

Thank you for the information. As posted, it never made a difference to me as I tip for quality service in either case.

[Moby0215]

What does it say that you argue about "over serving" and "too drunk" when I specifically said there was no consumption?

 

BTW, it IS in the terms, but only for soda and juices...not referring to alcohol.

 

 

 

The bartender doesn’t know that you haven’t consumed those beverages. They just know that they already served you a bunch in a short period of time. And either way, this is just a hypothetical posed on your part of which I posed a hypothetical answer. I️ personally have never been told I️ could not order a drink and I️ probably drink heavier than most people. And by the way, I’m not sure if you clicked the link I️ posted but NCL does use the word Unlimited on that page describing the UBP perk.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

The bartender doesn’t know that you haven’t consumed those beverages. They just know that they already served you a bunch in a short period of time. And either way, this is just a hypothetical posed on your part of which I posed a hypothetical answer. I️ personally have never been told I️ could not order a drink and I️ probably drink heavier than most people. And by the way, I’m not sure if you clicked the link I️ posted but NCL does use the word Unlimited on that page describing the UBP perk.

 

 

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Perhaps you should read my posts before arguing, as you clearly have not.

[Moby0215]

Perhaps you should read my posts before arguing, as you clearly have not.

 

 

 

What makes you think that I️ have not read your posts? And It may be hard to tell through text however I️ can assure you I️ am not arguing. I️ like to hear everyone’s view points and try and understand why they may differ from mine.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

What makes you think that I️ have not read your posts? And It may be hard to tell through text however I️ can assure you I️ am not arguing. I️ like to hear everyone’s view points and try and understand why they may differ from mine.

 

(Are you going to accept the answer, or just continue the argument? Let's find out.)

 

FIrst, you stated:

 

The bartender doesn’t know that you haven’t consumed those beverages.

 

IF you had read my post, you would have clearly seen that in the example given that you would just order drinks over and over WITHOUT CONSUMPTION...which means that the bartender WOULD know you haven't consumed those beverages. Since I SPECIFICALLY made that clear in my post, there is simply no reason (other than useless argument) that you could have for ignoring that fact...unless you did not read the post.

 

 

Second, the ENTIRE Unlimited/Ultimate discussion (at least as far as my involvement) stems from Post #41 in which the term Unlimited was used (improperly, btw) in reference to the Terms and Conditions...not some marketing speak somewhere, but from the Terms and Conditions.

 

There are two points that you ignored or didn't read. Is that enough, or will there be more pointless arguing?

[Moby0215]

(Are you going to accept the answer, or just continue the argument? Let's find out.)

 

 

 

FIrst, you stated:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IF you had read my post, you would have clearly seen that in the example given that you would just order drinks over and over WITHOUT CONSUMPTION...which means that the bartender WOULD know you haven't consumed those beverages. Since I SPECIFICALLY made that clear in my post, there is simply no reason (other than useless argument) that you could have for ignoring that fact...unless you did not read the post.

 

 

 

 

 

Second, the ENTIRE Unlimited/Ultimate discussion (at least as far as my involvement) stems from Post #41 in which the term Unlimited was used (improperly, btw) in reference to the Terms and Conditions...not some marketing speak somewhere, but from the Terms and Conditions.

 

 

 

There are two points that you ignored or didn't read. Is that enough, or will there be more pointless arguing?

 

 

 

Thanks for you reply/explanation. That is appreciated. And again you keep being up arguing. That’s not the case. In this reply it is just to try and convey what my prior post(s) meant.

 

Just because you said to order over and over without consumption does not 100% correlate to the bartender knowing that you did not drink the beverages. And if they do know then they obviously see that you are just ordering the drinks to be an ass lol. That point was not ignored just explained possibly how/why that would happen.

 

The second point is also something not ignored as I️ know that the plan is called the Ultimate not Unlimited as you can see from one of my previous posts. I️ have tried to make it known that the conversation about the word unlimited was only started in response to someone else and I️ was just correcting someone who said the drinks are not unlimited.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

Thanks for you reply/explanation. That is appreciated. And again you keep being up arguing. That’s not the case. In this reply it is just to try and convey what my prior post(s) meant.

 

Just because you said to order over and over without consumption does not 100% correlate to the bartender knowing that you did not drink the beverages. And if they do know then they obviously see that you are just ordering the drinks to be an ass lol. That point was not ignored just explained possibly how/why that would happen.

 

The second point is also something not ignored as I️ know that the plan is called the Ultimate not Unlimited as you can see from one of my previous posts. I️ have tried to make it known that the conversation about the word unlimited was only started in response to someone else and I️ was just correcting someone who said the drinks are not unlimited.

 

 

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Ok, but you don't need to explain what you prior posts meant without someone asking to you explain the meaning first. Also...the drinks are NOT unlimited. That is a fallacy. There is always a limit.

 

Lastly, if you really just want to :halo: explain what you meant :halo:, then just post your meaning to everyone. When you use the quote feature, it is seen as a direct reply/argument by the poster you are quoting. (For example, since I quoted you in this post, it is obvious that the post is directed to you to make a point to you, and is not just a general post to inform everyone).

[Moby0215]

Ok, but you don't need to explain what you prior posts meant without someone asking to you explain the meaning first. Also...the drinks are NOT unlimited. That is a fallacy. There is always a limit.

 

 

 

Lastly, if you really just want to :halo: explain what you meant :halo:, then just post your meaning to everyone. When you use the quote feature, it is seen as a direct reply/argument by the poster you are quoting. (For example, since I quoted you in this post, it is obvious that the post is directed to you to make a point to you, and is not just a general post to inform everyone).

 

 

 

The quoting feature is used because we ARE having a direct conversation. It is a direct reply to you. The explanation is 100% needed because you keep replying/quoting my posts incorrectly as how I️ have already explained that the drinks are unlimited. If there were a limit then it would be specified. And I️ do not consider cutting someone off because they are too intoxicated a limit because that is common sense and can not be quantified. Similar to how one can go to an unlimited open bar party for New Years for example. Certainly it is considered unlimited but a bartender still has a legal responsibility to not over serve someone.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

The quoting feature is used because we ARE having a direct conversation. It is a direct reply to you. The explanation is 100% needed because you keep replying/quoting my posts incorrectly as how I️ have already explained that the drinks are unlimited. If there were a limit then it would be specified. And I️ do not consider cutting someone off because they are too intoxicated a limit because that is common sense and can not be quantified. Similar to how one can go to an unlimited open bar party for New Years for example. Certainly it is considered unlimited but a bartender still has a legal responsibility to not over serve someone.

 

 

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Once again...only YOU are discussing over serving. I specifically said no consumption...why don't you get that?

 

In any case, none of that really matters because you are dead wrong about it being unlimited. There most certainly are limits and nothing you argue is going to change that.

[Moby0215]

Once again...only YOU are discussing over serving. I specifically said no consumption...why don't you get that?

 

In any case, none of that really matters because you are dead wrong about it being unlimited. There most certainly are limits and nothing you argue is going to change that.

 

 

 

Oh boy are you frustrating. I️ already said how the no consumption thing works. And you still have not said how I️ am dead wrong other than your hypothetical no consumption possibility of which in my opinion does not apply.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

Oh boy are you frustrating. I️ already said how the no consumption thing works. And you still have not said how I️ am dead wrong other than your hypothetical no consumption possibility of which in my opinion does not apply.

 

 

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No...you did not. In typical fashion, you choose to ignore that which disproves your claims. You are trying to claim your own set of facts ignoring that the program is not unlimited in a number of ways.

 

Your frustration comes from the fact that you don't seem to be able to accept the fact that other people might not agree with your view. You (being the frustrated person) need to ask yourself why you feel the need to continually explain yourself to me in spite of the fact that I CLEARLY have no interest in your interpretations.

[Moby0215]

No...you did not. In typical fashion, you choose to ignore that which disproves your claims. You are trying to claim your own set of facts ignoring that the program is not unlimited in a number of ways.

 

Your frustration comes from the fact that you don't seem to be able to accept the fact that other people might not agree with your view. You (being the frustrated person) need to ask yourself why you feel the need to continually explain yourself to me in spite of the fact that I CLEARLY have no interest in your interpretations.

 

 

 

I️ have ignored nothing. Nothing you have said disproves that it is unlimited. All you did was pose a hypothetical about ordering drink after drink and to see if they stop you. That disproves nothing. If I️ missed some other disproof then I️ welcome you to remind me.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

I️ have ignored nothing. Nothing you have said disproves that it is unlimited. All you did was pose a hypothetical about ordering drink after drink and to see if they stop you. That disproves nothing. If I️ missed some other disproof then I️ welcome you to remind me.

 

 

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Take that position if you choose. Nothing you have said proves it is unlimited. There are limits to what they allow you to order (prove there isn't, don't just claim), there are limits imposed by the limited stock on board...not to mention that people with NCL who know the facts have confirmed it. FWIW...if you need confirmation from them, feel free to get it yourself as I'm not doing it for you. Nothing you have is going to change that...so, is that something you can accept or will you keep right on arguing?

[Moby0215]

Take that position if you choose. Nothing you have said proves it is unlimited. There are limits to what they allow you to order (prove there isn't, don't just claim), there are limits imposed by the limited stock on board...not to mention that people with NCL who know the facts have confirmed it. FWIW...if you need confirmation from them, feel free to get it yourself as I'm not doing it for you. Nothing you have is going to change that...so, is that something you can accept or will you keep right on arguing?

 

 

 

FWIW you keep arguing right back. The link I️ already posted is right from NCLs page that states Unlimited. Call it marketing speak all you want. It is still right there in black and white. The limited stock on board plays no role in any one individual’s number of drinks ordered. If they happen to run out of something you just order something else. That is a lame claim to make for saying that it is not unlimited. Same goes for food. Is the food not unlimited? Surely they can run out of a certain item. Doesn’t make the claim that it is unlimited invalid.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

FWIW you keep arguing right back. The link I️ already posted is right from NCLs page that states Unlimited. Call it marketing speak all you want. It is still right there in black and white. The limited stock on board plays no role in any one individual’s number of drinks ordered. If they happen to run out of something you just order something else. That is a lame claim to make for saying that it is not unlimited. Same goes for food. Is the food not unlimited? Surely they can run out of a certain item. Doesn’t make the claim that it is unlimited invalid.

 

 

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Your link is not from the T&C, and that is why it is marketing-speak only. Other than that you've offered nothing here but the usual "I choose to ignore all that disproves me, so I must be right" argument that, as repeatedly stated, isn't going to change my mind...or the facts.

 

You still need to ask yourself why that bothers you so much.

[Moby0215]

Your link is not from the T&C, and that is why it is marketing-speak only. Other than that you've offered nothing here but the usual "I choose to ignore all that disproves me, so I must be right" argument that, as repeatedly stated, isn't going to change my mind...or the facts.

 

 

 

You still need to ask yourself why that bothers you so much.

 

 

 

The T&C do not list a limit. That is fact. And I️ repeat again. Nothing you said disproves that. I️ have ignored nothing. And that certainly doesn’t bother me. Time to head on out to a party where I️ will be imbibing in unlimited beverages knowing full well that there is limited stock at the bar. Cheers and have a nice day.

 

 

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[SeaShark]

The T&C do not list a limit. That is fact. And I️ repeat again. Nothing you said disproves that. I️ have ignored nothing. And that certainly doesn’t bother me. Time to head on out to a party where I️ will be imbibing in unlimited beverages knowing full well that there is limited stock at the bar. Cheers and have a nice day.

 

 

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Nor do the T&C indicate unlimited outside of soda and juice...another inconvenient truth.

[norway olin]

Nor do the T&C indicate unlimited outside of soda and juice...another inconvenient truth.

 

Under the terms & Conditions for the Free At Sea promotion. What is the 4th word you see here?

==========================================================================

 

Ultimate Beverage Package (Unlimited Open Bar):

 

Applicable to guests 1-2 on the reservation.

Guest must be at least 21 years of age at time of sailing to qualify for the Ultimate Beverage Package. Guests under 21 will receive the soda package.

Eligible guests are entitled to one beverage per person per transaction.

Includes a variety of spirits and cocktails, wines by the glass and bottled or draft beer up to $15 USD. Includes fountain soda and juice, and non-alcoholic beer.

A 20% discount will be given on bottles of wine (champagne and sparkling included) purchased on board.

Offer is not applicable at Harvest Caye bars, restaurants, or venues.

Does not include Ice Bars, room service, package sales, bottled water, ship specific promotions or beer buckets, designated super premium brands (subject to change),

bottled wine, mini bar purchases, fresh squeezed juices, Lavazza coffee beverages, wine dispenser, energy drinks or vending machines.

Guest who receive the Soda Package may obtain fountain soda at any bar, lounge or restaurant throughout the duration of the cruise, excluding Harvest Caye bars, restaurants, or venues.

Guest's check may reflect applicable VAT and/or taxes for certain ports or itineraries.

Guest is responsible for 20% gratuities on the retail value of the Ultimate Beverage Package ($17.80 USD per person per day) and/or Soda Package ($1.50 USD per person per day) prior to cruise.

Retail value of Ultimate Beverage Package is $89.00 USD per person per day. Package price is subject to change.

Retail value of the Adult Soda Package is $7.50 USD per person per day. Package price is subject to change.

20% gratuities on the retail value of the Ultimate Beverage Package and/or Soda Package are included when booking through the Australia office.

When booking through the Australia office, gratuities related to beverage and soda packages are included.

[SeaShark]

Under the terms & Conditions for the Free At Sea promotion. What is the 4th word you see here?

==========================================================================

 

Ultimate Beverage Package (Unlimited Open Bar):

 

Applicable to guests 1-2 on the reservation.

Guest must be at least 21 years of age at time of sailing to qualify for the Ultimate Beverage Package. Guests under 21 will receive the soda package.

Eligible guests are entitled to one beverage per person per transaction.

Includes a variety of spirits and cocktails, wines by the glass and bottled or draft beer up to $15 USD. Includes fountain soda and juice, and non-alcoholic beer.

A 20% discount will be given on bottles of wine (champagne and sparkling included) purchased on board.

Offer is not applicable at Harvest Caye bars, restaurants, or venues.

Does not include Ice Bars, room service, package sales, bottled water, ship specific promotions or beer buckets, designated super premium brands (subject to change),

bottled wine, mini bar purchases, fresh squeezed juices, Lavazza coffee beverages, wine dispenser, energy drinks or vending machines.

Guest who receive the Soda Package may obtain fountain soda at any bar, lounge or restaurant throughout the duration of the cruise, excluding Harvest Caye bars, restaurants, or venues.

Guest's check may reflect applicable VAT and/or taxes for certain ports or itineraries.

Guest is responsible for 20% gratuities on the retail value of the Ultimate Beverage Package ($17.80 USD per person per day) and/or Soda Package ($1.50 USD per person per day) prior to cruise.

Retail value of Ultimate Beverage Package is $89.00 USD per person per day. Package price is subject to change.

Retail value of the Adult Soda Package is $7.50 USD per person per day. Package price is subject to change.

20% gratuities on the retail value of the Ultimate Beverage Package and/or Soda Package are included when booking through the Australia office.

When booking through the Australia office, gratuities related to beverage and soda packages are included.

Wrong terms and conditions, try reading those for the UBP...not those for Free At Sea. Sheesh. Even a pedestrian understanding of the price restriction indicates that the bar is neither "open" or "unlimited".

[Moby0215]

I wouldn’t want to speak for others, but I’m assuming that they mean that you can’t choose your definition. Unlimited means there are no limits to quantity or extent. There is clearly a limit to extent in the UBP, so it isn’t unlimited.

 

He is, of course, correct.

 

Meanwhile, I assume, you would make an argument (although I have to say that I’m now fairly confused as to exactly what you are saying) along the lines that there is clearly a limit as to extent and really any reference that NCL may make towards the package being unlimited is obviously referring to quantity.

 

That is, of course, correct.

 

Which really sums up the futility of the whole discussion.

 

 

 

1) it is clearly obvious that NCL uses the term unlimited as to quantity.

2) I️ would argue that you are using the definition of extent wrong.

3) the Cambridge dictionary doesn’t even use the word extent in the definition of unlimited.

 

“not having a limit or highest possible amount, number, or level:

If you rent the car for the week, you get unlimited mileage (= the amount you pay is not related to how many miles you drive).”

 

The way you are trying to define Unlimited is unrealistic because then nothing would ever be able to be unlimited. There would always be some extent blocking the unlimited.

 

 

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