How as a result of the latest increase do you intend to tip on their next P&O Cruise?

[hooked-cruiser]

Somebody has "thrown their rattle out of the pram" This started as a generalisation of how people feel about tipping and now some people are getting quite heated on the subject.

At the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide how or if they are paying their gratuities and I personally do not believe that P&O are any different to any other Carnival company and that they will "Do what they want".

Good luck in the remainder of this thread but I for one am now fed up with the subject and will not be viewing it again.

[NoFlyGuy]

Shineson - No I didn't book my cruise knowing it's price if you expect me to pay the 'new' suggested service charge in full. True I can waste my deposit by cancelling but, why should I. Like most other purchases in life, give me a price for the goods or services you are providing up front and allow me to decide whether to take up your offer or not.

 

I could add that the change to the alcohol policy is another example of altering my contract with P&O after I have booked in good faith. I, along with many others I suspect, book well in advance of our holiday and accept the terms and conditions at the time of booking. Whilst I have never abused the earlier, more lenient, policy on alcohol used by P&O it becomes very difficult to decide which company to book a particular cruise with if the terms can be changed between booking and departure.

[NSWP]

Those of us who always pay the full amount will be happy because we will no longer be subsidising those who are not paying.

 

I would have to agree with your statement.:halo:

[NSWP]

By that do you mean P&O, who choose not to pay their staff and hope their customers will?

= wage subsidy, for that is what the service charge/auto tip is.:evilsmile:

[grapau27]

= wage subsidy, for that is what the service charge/auto tip is.:evilsmile:

I agree the crew expect it because it is their wage.

They only feel a proper benefit when crew give them cash tips on top of the service charge.

[insanemagnet]

You booked your cruise knowing its price & knowing the % DSC they charge.

 

First time customers may not as P&O choose not to mention it in the booking process.

 

Its omission is clearly not accidental, so why don't P&O mention it? Embarrassment that they have choosen not to pay their staff and hope the customers will have a whip round for them? A sneaky way of pushing up profits as they know most customers would feel embarrassed at not paying and the staff suffering?

 

If anyone needs a kicking it is not the customers whatever they choose to do, but it is P&O who decided to operate their business in this way who should be called to account.

[grapau27]

I agree the crew expect it because it is their wage.

They only feel a proper benefit when crew give them cash tips on top of the service charge.

I agree the crew expect it because it is their wage.

They only feel a proper benefit when Passengers give them cash tips on top of the service charge.

[grapau27]

First time customers may not as P&O choose not to mention it in the booking process.

 

Its omission is clearly not accidental, so why don't P&O mention it? Embarrassment that they have choosen not to pay their staff and hope the customers will have a whip round for them? A sneaky way of pushing up profits as they know most customers would feel embarrassed at not paying and the staff suffering?

 

If anyone needs a kicking it is not the customers whatever they choose to do, but it is P&O who decided to operate their business in this way who should be called to account.

Your right but most of the cruise lines operate that way though so it is not exclusive to P&O.

[Eglesbrech]

No they don't.

 

The existence and cost of the service charge is made pretty clear during the booking process on some other lines. On some you can't book freedom dining without paying it up front. Fred Olsen now also tend to ask if you want to pay grants with the final balance rather than once onboard.

 

Has anyone seen clear information about this cost during the process of making a P&O booking?

[insanemagnet]

Your right but most of the cruise lines operate that way though so it is not exclusive to P&O.

Most cruise companies are American selling primarily to American customers so they are expected to operate in an American way, so tips are the norm (and taxes added to the advertised price).

 

P&O is the 'British' brand sold by Carnival a dual listed UK/US company so it is not unreasonable to expect it to confirm with British norms.

 

By deliberately not doing so it is the bad actor creating the situation so any complaints about non-payment should be directed to them. They could solve the issue instantly but that would impact on the directors bonuses.

[dorsetlad]

There are lots of comments on here of how little the staff are paid, but there is very little mention of:

They get full board and lodging.

All working clothes are supplied, plus the laundering and cleaning of them.

Full medical care

Full dental care

Glasses if required

Plus some other items I have probably missed.

 

These items would take a considerable amount of anybody's wage if they weren't provided for free.

[grapau27]

There are lots of comments on here of how little the staff are paid, but there is very little mention of:

They get full board and lodging.

All working clothes are supplied, plus the laundering and cleaning of them.

Full medical care

Full dental care

Glasses if required

Plus some other items I have probably missed.

 

These items would take a considerable amount of anybody's wage if they weren't provided for free.

Good points.

Many crew members have told me they work about 5-7 years on the ship then go home and open their own business.

I don't begrudge them anything but we do get brainwashed by the cruise lines somewhat over gratuitys.

[NSWP]

There are lots of comments on here of how little the staff are paid, but there is very little mention of:

They get full board and lodging.

All working clothes are supplied, plus the laundering and cleaning of them.

Full medical care

Full dental care

Glasses if required

Plus some other items I have probably missed.

 

These items would take a considerable amount of anybody's wage if they weren't provided for free.

 

And US$2000 for a cabin steward/waiter a month is lot of money in Mumbai or Manilla.:(

[Waju]

I would personally like to see tips included in the price of the cruise. If they were included they should be cheaper as everyone would be paying, for example if only 50% of the passengers pay £7 each then 100% of passengers would only have to pay £3.50 each

 

As an aside, if P and O do decide to go down that route then would the fairest way be cruises booked on or after the date it comes into force and not cruises that have been booked previously?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Waju
Additional text

[Shineson]

And US$2000 for a cabin steward/waiter a month is lot of money in Mumbai or Manilla.:(

 

I've never spoken to any member of staff who receives $2000 a month !!!!

 

And what about the 3 months training they have to fund themselves before they can even attempt to get a job on the ships. And then there is the multi hundred $ fee they have to pay to an Agency - just to get on their books and finally try to get a job.

[smj777]

Shineson - No I didn't book my cruise knowing it's price if you expect me to pay the 'new' suggested service charge in full. True I can waste my deposit by cancelling but, why should I. Like most other purchases in life, give me a price for the goods or services you are providing up front and allow me to decide whether to take up your offer or not.

 

I could add that the change to the alcohol policy is another example of altering my contract with P&O after I have booked in good faith. I, along with many others I suspect, book well in advance of our holiday and accept the terms and conditions at the time of booking. Whilst I have never abused the earlier, more lenient, policy on alcohol used by P&O it becomes very difficult to decide which company to book a particular cruise with if the terms can be changed between booking and departure.

 

THIS is what I object to. I know the T&C allow amendments, but surely not for "Lets get some more money out of those that have already paid" changes. We have 3 cruises, booked when alcohol was allowed to be brought on board and DSC was £6.50. Sneaky to alter those after the contract was made.

[gillybean1974]

I've never spoken to any member of staff who receives $2000 a month !!!!

 

And what about the 3 months training they have to fund themselves before they can even attempt to get a job on the ships. And then there is the multi hundred $ fee they have to pay to an Agency - just to get on their books and finally try to get a job.

 

 

Even if they did earn $2000 a month, they would still be earning far less than a UK/ EU worker working 60 hour weeks and earning minimum wage. Yes its a lot of money in third world countries but they're not working there.

 

Having worked myself on ships many years ago, I wouldn't dream of not paying the auto grat/ service charge as I know how tough those hours are..

 

Yes P&O is a UK cruise company and sails out of the UK so I can understand first time cruisers being somewhat reluctant to have to supplement the cabin stewards and waiters wages with a daily charge. The reality though is its not the UK and those workers are not paid as much as UK workers and do not have the same rights and benefits as a UK worker does. And is P&O was to treat all workers by UK employment standards, it would cost a lot more that £7 per passenger a day.

 

Sure they get free room and board. Try living in a tiny 4 bed inside cabin for 8 months, plus many of the crew have families back home and are still paying for their housing costs so not much of a saving there.

 

Free medical and dental cover is typical to holiday insurance type cover. All cruise line employees undergo a rigorous medical exam (X rays, blood tests etc), any illness or injury and you're not hired. If you have an accident then of course the cruise lines insurance would cover your hospital stay, flights home etc Its not equivalent to NHS cover.

 

Holiday pay for those that do get it is a token amount. No days off (or 1 every 2 weeks or so). No sick pay. No bank holidays. No time and a half/ double time for working Sundays or excess hours. No union rep to support you. Insufficient breaks especially on sea days. No employee pension.

 

I do think P&O should raise the cruise price to incorporate the daily charge. That way at least the crew would be getting a fair wage. Any boycott would only hurt the crew and not P&O and they deserve so much more than that.

[insanemagnet]

Yes P&O is a UK cruise company and sails out of the UK so I can understand first time cruisers being somewhat reluctant to have to supplement the cabin stewards and waiters wages with a daily charge. The reality though is its not the UK and those workers are not paid as much as UK workers and do not have the same rights and benefits as a UK worker does. And is P&O was to treat all workers by UK employment standards, it would cost a lot more that £7 per passenger a day.

 

Sure they get free room and board. Try living in a tiny 4 bed inside cabin for 8 months, plus many of the crew have families back home and are still paying for their housing costs so not much of a saving there.

 

Free medical and dental cover is typical to holiday insurance type cover. All cruise line employees undergo a rigorous medical exam (X rays, blood tests etc), any illness or injury and you're not hired. If you have an accident then of course the cruise lines insurance would cover your hospital stay, flights home etc Its not equivalent to NHS cover.

 

Holiday pay for those that do get it is a token amount. No days off (or 1 every 2 weeks or so). No sick pay. No bank holidays. No time and a half/ double time for working Sundays or excess hours. No union rep to support you. Insufficient breaks especially on sea days. No employee pension.

 

So do you think it acceptable that P&O abuses its employees by exploiting them in this manner?

[gillybean1974]

So do you think it acceptable that P&O abuses its employees by exploiting them in this manner?

 

No I don't think it's acceptable at all.

[kalos]

I came across this article on Cruise Critic https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=2242

 

seems that one of the top cruise lines try to do right by their staff .

[grapau27]

I came across this article on Cruise Critic https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=2242

 

seems that one of the top cruise lines try to do right by their staff .

Thanks for posting this.

As a RC as well as P&O regular i have heard from several crew members on RC who say the cruise line looks after the crew very well.

[NoFlyGuy]

gillybean1974 - Not sure exactly what your point is. As long as this thread is, nobody seems to have come up with a figure as to what a typical cabin steward or restaurant waiter actually earns over a year.

 

You feel they are being exploited, perhaps but, compared with their prospects and likely pay back 'home' they probably feel they are the lucky ones.

 

I am sure they do get paid less than a low paid worker in the UK but once they return home their money goes a long way.

 

One could argue that a typical UK worker is being exploited because their salary is so much lower than an equivalent Norwegian worker. Anyone who has done a cruise that includes Norway will know just how expensive the cost of living is there. It's like comparing chalk and cheese.

 

The bottom line is are these crew being paid at least a living wage commensurate with their country of origin and where they will almost certainly return to once their stint on the cruise ships is over. If you answer 'no' then please explain why any of them would willingly sign up to work on cruise ships (P&O or any other) rather than remain in their country of birth and where they are likely to have family ties.

[gillybean1974]

gillybean1974 - Not sure exactly what your point is. As long as this thread is, nobody seems to have come up with a figure as to what a typical cabin steward or restaurant waiter actually earns over a year.

 

You feel they are being exploited, perhaps but, compared with their prospects and likely pay back 'home' they probably feel they are the lucky ones.

 

I am sure they do get paid less than a low paid worker in the UK but once they return home their money goes a long way.

 

One could argue that a typical UK worker is being exploited because their salary is so much lower than an equivalent Norwegian worker. Anyone who has done a cruise that includes Norway will know just how expensive the cost of living is there. It's like comparing chalk and cheese.

 

The bottom line is are these crew being paid at least a living wage commensurate with their country of origin and where they will almost certainly return to once their stint on the cruise ships is over. If you answer 'no' then please explain why any of them would willingly sign up to work on cruise ships (P&O or any other) rather than remain in their country of birth and where they are likely to have family ties.

 

Not trying to get into any disagreements. Only point I was really trying to make is that they do fully deserve their daily service charge/ auto grat whether or not its a separate charge or incorporated into the cruise fare. not trying to defend anyone, just wanted to put my opinion out there.

 

And my point about UK workers really was to emphasise the fact that generally in the UK people don't tip and see P&O ships sailing from the UK as being a part of the UK. And it's not as the crew aren't paid even close to what a UK worker is.

 

Yes they do earn a good wage for their countries they come from but they deserve it for all the hard work they do :)

[insanemagnet]

The bottom line is are these crew being paid at least a living wage commensurate with their country of origin

 

That is true for the 'behind the scenes' staff, but it isn't true for the stewards and waiters.

 

P&O deliberately underpays these staff and hopes its customers will have a whip round to make up their pay.

 

The issue being highlighted is some customers are declining to contribute and are being criticised, when it is P&O who both created the situation and are exploiting it (at no risk to themselves) to drive up profits.

[Shineson]

That is true for the 'behind the scenes' staff, but it isn't true for the stewards and waiters.

 

P&O deliberately underpays these staff and hopes its customers will have a whip round to make up their pay.

 

The issue being highlighted is some customers are declining to contribute and are being criticised, when it is P&O who both created the situation and are exploiting it (at no risk to themselves) to drive up profits.

 

The Stewards and Waiters are all on the same rising scale of ‘basic’ wage that the back room staff are on, and they all rely on their share of the DSC pot to make it up to a level of living wage which is acceptable to them as individuals. They sign up for the ‘basic’ wage, but also have the expectation and hope that the passengers will recognise their hard work and keep the DSC intact.

Those positions onboard (cabin & dining staff) that provide a direct opportunity for them to earn extra ‘cash tips’ are coveted.

 

Instead of cruise lines being asked to include gratuities in the up front cost of a cruise (which I agree will give them the opportunity to hike up the prices), I would rather they identify their level of service charge, but make it a compulsory payment. That would at least eliminate the regrettable feeling that a lot of us are subsidising those who currently remove the charge. My vote will always be towards a level playing field, and therefore any future cruises I take will be on lines that either include gratuities, or make it mandatory to pay them.