More fake service dog nonsense

[Greyhound Crazy]

As far as I’m concerned service dogs are for the blind anything else is a bunch of kaka

Also sorry to put it this way why would a blind person take a cruise

Wake up people

 

 

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I would imagine blind people take cruises for the same reasons as anybody else. For that matter, I imagine any differently abled person would take a cruise for the same reasons as anybody else. It would be much more appropriate to ask "why wouldn't they take a cruise". Cruises have more to offer than just a pretty view. Now, I admit I haven't asked any of the blind people I have met on cruises why they took the cruise... it never would have occurred to me to ask such a thing.

 

We have a student where I work who has a seizure detecting dog. It is a smallish lapdog, who rides with him in his wheelchair. It is every bit as much a true service dog as any seeing eye dog and is every bit as well trained and well behaved. When on duty, it only barks when a seizure is imminent (and it's a deliberate, purposeful kind of bark). Much as it has never occurred to me to ask a blind person why they would want to take a cruise, it has also never occurred to me to ask that particular student why he would want to pursue higher education.

 

So yes, there are all kinds of service dogs, and I am grateful for the services they provide to those who need them.

[Yoshikitty]

I wasn't going to get into this futile discussion of "ocean liner" vs "cruise ship", but its just getting to me. If you look elsewhere than Wiki, the definition of "ocean liner" is:

 

"a passenger ship that travels on the ocean" (Collins English dictionary), and variants of the same in about 10 different dictionaries, some mentioning "routine schedule", which cruise ships have as well.

 

There is no "sharp line" between an "ocean liner" and a "cruise ship". Any Naval Architect can call his/her ship an "ocean liner" if they want to. The designer of the QM2 made some design decisions based on his philosophy of Naval Architecture as being required to handle winter crossings. That is that particular designer's decision. There are no "rules" for being an "ocean liner", and there were no design criteria or class society rules making one ship an "ocean liner" and another a "cruise ship". In international law, and in Naval Architecture, they are all passenger vessels. In fact, the designers of the QM2 had to get exemptions from certain SOLAS regulations based on the designer's decisions, not on being an "ocean liner". If the QM2's designer wanted to call the QM2 a "dinner excursion boat", there is nothing preventing that description being applied to the ship, since every word is accurate. Any cruise ship afloat today could be assigned to make year round Atlantic crossings, and are not restricted from doing so by their certificate of class, so they would be "ocean liners?" Whether or not the passengers would be comfortable in all conditions, and whether or not it would be economical to budget for possible repairs due to weather, is a different question, but not one of any "design rules".

 

The word "liner" only differentiates between ships with fixed routes and schedules, and "tramp" ships that go where the cargo dictates, with no fixed route or schedule. Both "ocean liners" and "cruise ships" fit the definition of "liner".

 

The term "ocean liner" is an anachronism from a time when there were no "cruise ships".

 

Instead of asking Collins Dictionary, maybe we listen to what a naval architect has to say.

 

 

Bottom line: "Try crossing the Northern Atlantic with 23 knots in rough weater with a cruiseship" and you'll understand the difference

[Yoshikitty]

I wasn't going to get into this futile discussion of "ocean liner" vs "cruise ship", but its just getting to me. If you look elsewhere than Wiki, the definition of "ocean liner" is:

 

"a passenger ship that travels on the ocean" (Collins English dictionary), and variants of the same in about 10 different dictionaries, some mentioning "routine schedule", which cruise ships have as well.

 

There is no "sharp line" between an "ocean liner" and a "cruise ship". Any Naval Architect can call his/her ship an "ocean liner" if they want to. The designer of the QM2 made some design decisions based on his philosophy of Naval Architecture as being required to handle winter crossings. That is that particular designer's decision. There are no "rules" for being an "ocean liner", and there were no design criteria or class society rules making one ship an "ocean liner" and another a "cruise ship". In international law, and in Naval Architecture, they are all passenger vessels. In fact, the designers of the QM2 had to get exemptions from certain SOLAS regulations based on the designer's decisions, not on being an "ocean liner". If the QM2's designer wanted to call the QM2 a "dinner excursion boat", there is nothing preventing that description being applied to the ship, since every word is accurate. Any cruise ship afloat today could be assigned to make year round Atlantic crossings, and are not restricted from doing so by their certificate of class, so they would be "ocean liners?" Whether or not the passengers would be comfortable in all conditions, and whether or not it would be economical to budget for possible repairs due to weather, is a different question, but not one of any "design rules".

 

The word "liner" only differentiates between ships with fixed routes and schedules, and "tramp" ships that go where the cargo dictates, with no fixed route or schedule. Both "ocean liners" and "cruise ships" fit the definition of "liner".

 

The term "ocean liner" is an anachronism from a time when there were no "cruise ships".

 

Instead of asking Collins Dictionary or Wikipedia, which I usually respect, maybe we listen to what a naval architect has to say.

 

 

Bottom line: "Try crossing the transatlantic with 23 knots in rough weater with a cruiseship" and you'll understand the difference

[DrD]

"cruise" comes from the same root as "cross" and means to zig-zag across the ocean, usually in search of enemies, like a patrol. In the days of sail a cruise was a great assignment since any enemy ships taken (prizes) were sold and the crew got to divvy up the money. There's a great scene in Patrick O'Briens wonderful Jack Aubrey series (on which the movie Master and Commander is based) in which Aubrey is thrilled that he's been given a cruise by the admiral.

 

verb (used without object), cruised, cruis·ing.

• to sail about on a pleasure trip.
  
• to sail about, as a warship patrolling a body of water.
  
• to travel about without a particular purpose or destination
  

1645–55; < Dutch kruisen to cross, cruise, derivative of kruis cross

 

 

So with this in mind, I'd say that an ocean liner is a ship with the primary purpose of transporting passengers from one place to another, while a cruise ship is meant to just cruise around and come back to the same place. Of course there's no structural or design difference between the 2 as far as I know, maybe a liner would be faster or more fuel efficient?

 

 

Boat's are part of a ship's equipment and don't have their own name. Ship's boats were often used to attempt to board or otherwise attack an enemy. The first crude submarines were ships' boats, carried on a larger ship and launched close to the target. For some reason the tradition of calling them boats stuck.

 

 

A cruise ship is definitely not a boat and many of us cringe to hear them called that.

[Tommy3putts]

This thread has now really gone to the dogs. FWIW never argue with the Chief, Chengkp75.

[RNCindy]

Totally agree.

 

I'm one who lurks and hasn't posted in a long time. CC has changed since I joined in 2006. I know many posters who don't post much anymore because of some of the reasons noted above.

 

What happened to threads staying on topic? I see many that morph into personal chatter but are allowed to continue. Posted pictures, comments and replies should relate to the thread topic. Cruise Critic is not an entertainment forum like some have made it to be. CC has a section called Friends of Cruise Critic where you can start threads and talk about whatever you want. Maybe that would be a good place to chat and post pictures.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=649

 

I know I can scroll by a thread or posts but many times there's good information buried in amongst the drivel.

 

I totally agree, too!

I've been a member of CC since 2003 and I very rarely post anything because of the bashing, the "I'm right and you're wrong" and the "are you kidding?" mentality. I'm here to get ideas and tips about cruising and it's usually only for a month or so before I cruise. We haven't cruised in 6 years (for many reasons) and after reading some of the comments here, I'm a little concerned about our upcoming cruise next week. With all the dogs wearing dresses in strollers, dirty cabins, terrible food, emotionally unstable people and "drunkards", I do hope we survive and have a great vacation! Times have sure changed!!! For the record, we have 3 senior Shih Tzus and the last thing I want to do is take them on a cruise ship! We have a wonderful pet sitter that comes to our home and they are happy and I'm happy!! :D:D

[Cuizer2]

Instead of asking Collins Dictionary or Wikipedia, which I usually respect, maybe we listen to what a naval architect has to say.

 

 

Bottom line: "Try crossing the transatlantic with 23 knots in rough weater with a cruiseship" and you'll understand the difference

 

You are responding to a Chief Engineer who knows a lot more about ships than you ever will. Even the Queen Mary 2's owner calls the Queen Mary 2 a cruise ship.

[Cuizer2]

A boat is a vessel that can be carried on another vessel. Early submarines were carried aboard ships and so were named boats and the convention stuck.

 

What about the destroyer USS Cole. After it was damaged by suicide bombers it was carried back to the US on a Norwegian salvage ship, the Blue Marlin. So now that the USS Cole can be carried aboard another ship, is it still a ship?

 

What do you use to move a big ship?

 

A bigger ship.

 

The damaged USS Cole, a 505-foot-long vessel weighing 6,767 tons without its crew, is a lightweight for the transport vessel Blue Marlin, with its 584-foot cargo deck and 30,000-ton carrying capacity.

The Navy is talking to owner Offshore Heavy Transport, a Norwegian company, about using the ship to take the Cole to a shipbuilding facility at Pascagoula, Miss., for repairs. The Marlin is currently in Dubai, not far from the Cole’s port of Aden.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82366&page=1

 

In maritime parlance a ship that has propellers is a "screw-propelled motor/steam vessel". So, there really isn't any difference between a propeller and a screw, unless you are talking about a machine, wood, or self-tapping screw.

 

You forgot about sheet metal screws.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Cuizer2

[chengkp75]

Instead of asking Collins Dictionary or Wikipedia, which I usually respect, maybe we listen to what a naval architect has to say.

 

 

Bottom line: "Try crossing the transatlantic with 23 knots in rough weater with a cruiseship" and you'll understand the difference

 

Okay, I tried to listen to this painful presentation in full, but just couldn't. I still don't see where even this gentleman makes a "sharp line" between an "ocean liner" and a "cruise ship". He even denigrates the design of the SS Michaelangelo, which is universally considered to be an "ocean liner". He speaks of his personal design philosophy, and I didn't hear one word about a definitive design definition of an "ocean liner".

 

He says that his only two design requirements from Carnival were "have the same return on investment as a cruise ship" and "always be on time". Now, given that the power plant size to passenger count is much greater than any cruise ship, that investment has to be greater, and therefore to make the same ROI, the fare must be higher. Is this the definition of an "ocean liner"; we have to charge more just to give you an experience like the old days?

 

As for "always being on time". While the original crossings were 6 days (slower even than the old QE2) at about 24 knots, they slowed the ship down to around 20 knots for fuel conservation. So, she really isn't doing crossings at 23 knots (perhaps speed through water, but not over ground), and what is "on time"? If on time means a five day crossing, then she hasn't been on time in years. If it means being on time based on what we set the schedule on, then I could cross the ocean at 8 knots in a cruise ship, advertise it as a 17 day crossing, and be on time, so does that make me an "ocean liner", or a "cruise ship" (since my return on investment would be the same as a cruise ship)? Where does it say that there is a set time frame for making a crossing, that has to be at 23 knots? Sure the QM2 is capable of doing it, but does she? Nope. So, all the expense of that extra power is basically wasted, since even with bad weather and the new slower crossing, they rarely use full power.

 

Then he talks about the differences between the QE2 and the QM2. Now, since he made significant changes from the QE2 (as he says, looking at the past successes and failures), does this mean the QE2 was not an "ocean liner"?

 

Sorry, you'll have to go further than one Naval Architect speaking about his own design before I find any credible "definition" of an "ocean liner".

[Yoshikitty]

Shape of the bow, hull strength, propulsion power , positioning of the lifeboats, positioning of balcony cabins vs. obstucted balconies and many more points have been mentioned.

 

If Cunard‘s marketing team in the US uses a wrong term, that hardly proves anything.

 

And no offense to you, I‘d rather follow an educated naval designer who has a lifelong passion for cruisehips and liners and has been working for decades constructing cruiseships and one liner than a probably very capable Naval Engineer and his personal opinion.

 

To be „always on time“ was based on 6 days crossings, you have obviously been missing that point along with many others.

[Milwaukee Eight]

I believe that some people are getting two different forums confused. There is a Floataway Lounge, and a few years ago a new forum called Friends of Cruise Critic was created. Some threads that used to be in the Floataway Lounge were moved to Friends of Cruise Critic.

 

I do not believe any of the Floataway Lounge thread add to your post count. I know at least some, and perhaps all, of the Friends of Cruise Critic threads do add to your post count. The Diamond/D+/P thread in the Friends of Cruise Critic forum does add to your post count. My post count jumped by about 800 when the California Cruisers thread was moved from the Floataway Lounge to the Friends of Cruise Critic forum. Since the Diamond/D+/P thread used to be in the Floataway Lounge forum, and now is in the Friends of Cruise Critic forum, some people may not be aware of the switch, and thus think that Floataway Lounge threads add to your post count.

 

There is a very simple way to find out if a thread adds to your post count. Check your post count, then post and see if your post count goes up.

 

 

 

Are these similar to Friends of Bill we see posted on almost every cruise I have been on? Forums/Threads for those of us addicted to CC?

 

 

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[oldguysandgalls]

Shape of the bow, hull strength, propulsion power , positioning of the lifeboats, positioning of balcony cabins vs. obstucted balconies and many more points have been mentioned.

 

If Cunard‘s marketing team in the US uses a wrong term, that hardly proves anything.

 

And no offense to you, I‘d rather follow an educated naval designer who has a lifelong passion for cruisehips and liners and has been working for decades constructing cruiseships and one liner than a probably very capable Naval Engineer and his personal opinion.

 

To be „always on time“ was based on 6 days crossings, you have obviously been missing that point along with many others.

 

I am scratching my old bald head here....

What???? What???? What....happened to the original " fake service dog " thread??? Anyone know???

[ONECRUISER]

As far as I’m concerned service dogs are for the blind anything else is a bunch of kaka

Also sorry to put it this way why would a blind person take a cruise

Wake up people

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Wow, Really? "Why would a Blind Person take a cruise?" You do realize except for seeing they work and take Vacations? How about Family, eating, travel, being a regular person...

[ndabunka]

How EXACTLY is ANY of this related to the thread subject matter which was referencing Service Dogs? If you feel the syntax is of such a large impact then perhaps the recent discussion can be moved into it's own Ocean Liner vs. Cruise Ship... "tom maa toe" or "to mah toe".. LOL!

[Milwaukee Eight]

I am scratching my old bald head here....

What???? What???? What....happened to the original " fake service dog " thread??? Anyone know???

 

 

 

Generally this happens on CC when the original thread goes off topic. I think the threads actually become more interesting at times when an off topic or hijack post occurs.

 

 

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[ONECRUISER]

Yes. Casino workers verified and I saw the dog the next day.

 

 

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Was just kidding, but have seen pool shutdown for same reason...and wasn't a Dog!

[oldguysandgalls]

How EXACTLY is ANY of this related to the thread subject matter which was referencing Service Dogs? If you feel the syntax is of such a large impact then perhaps the recent discussion can be moved into it's own Ocean Liner vs. Cruise Ship... "tom maa toe" or "to mah toe".. LOL!

 

I agree.....:confused:

(see my earlier post)

I am scratching my old bald head here....

What???? What???? What....happened to the original " fake service dog " thread??? Anyone know???

[ONECRUISER]

Apparently he does.

 

And just so you know, my balcony faces the Atlantic Ocean about 5 miles south of Port Canaveral, one of Royals cruise ports.

 

I post pics of weather conditions, sailaways, and sometimes rocket launches.

 

These are things many people seem to be interested in.

 

I'm really quite the helpful guy.

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

And I appreciate the info on ships, storms... Do wish I could have witnessed a Moon Launch, but didn't first visit Florida until 1988. Worked for Govt and Military at Marshall Space Flight Center/Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville Al...

[chengkp75]

Shape of the bow, hull strength, propulsion power , positioning of the lifeboats, positioning of balcony cabins vs. obstucted balconies and many more points have been mentioned.

 

If Cunard‘s marketing team in the US uses a wrong term, that hardly proves anything.

 

And no offense to you, I‘d rather follow an educated naval designer who has a lifelong passion for cruisehips and liners and has been working for decades constructing cruiseships and one liner than a probably very capable Naval Engineer and his personal opinion.

 

To be „always on time“ was based on 6 days crossings, you have obviously been missing that point along with many others.

 

As my last word before letting this go back to beating the dead horse of fake service animals, please show me where he said any of those things were "required" as opposed to his design "philosophy" to be an "ocean liner". And so, if the "on time" was based on a 6 day crossing, the ship has not been "on time" in years. He could have dragged that presentation to 90 minutes arguing that the QM2 was a "mega-yacht" and he could have provided cogent design decisions as to why it was so. As I said, he disparaged or showed how his design varied from two ships universally acknowledged to be "ocean liners" by Naval Architects of the day.

[oldguysandgalls]

As my last word before letting this go back to beating the dead horse of fake service animals, please show me where he said any of those things were "required" as opposed to his design "philosophy" to be an "ocean liner". And so, if the "on time" was based on a 6 day crossing, the ship has not been "on time" in years. He could have dragged that presentation to 90 minutes arguing that the QM2 was a "mega-yacht" and he could have provided cogent design decisions as to why it was so. As I said, he disparaged or showed how his design varied from two ships universally acknowledged to be "ocean liners" by Naval Architects of the day.

 

Whew....the original thread is so much easier to follow....;)

Anyone else remember " how much is that doggie in the window"?

All together now...

"How much is that doggie in the window"

[John&LaLa]

And I appreciate the info on ships, storms... Do wish I could have witnessed a Moon Launch, but didn't first visit Florida until 1988. Worked for Govt and Military at Marshall Space Flight Center/Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville Al...

We lived in Madison from 96 to 2000.

 

Laura audited defense programs for GAO at Redstone.

 

 

 

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[Cuizer2]

If Cunard‘s marketing team in the US uses a wrong term, that hardly proves anything.

 

And no offense to you, I‘d rather follow an educated naval designer who has a lifelong passion for cruisehips and liners and has been working for decades constructing cruiseships and one liner than a probably very capable Naval Engineer and his personal opinion.

 

The misuse of the term also applies to you.

[Cuizer2]

Are these similar to Friends of Bill we see posted on almost every cruise I have been on? Forums/Threads for those of us addicted to CC?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

There is a Friends of Bill W. thread in the Friends of Cruise Critic forum. I don't know if they are related to the Friends of Bill meeting that are held on the cruise ships (including the Queen Mary 2).

[Cuizer2]

I am scratching my old bald head here....

What???? What???? What....happened to the original " fake service dog " thread??? Anyone know???

 

A fake dog ran off with it. A fake dog catcher is trying to catch the fake dog. We are just filling in until the fake dog is caught and the fake service dog thread is returned.

[ONECRUISER]

I totally agree, too!

I've been a member of CC since 2003 and I very rarely post anything because of the bashing, the "I'm right and you're wrong" and the "are you kidding?" mentality. I'm here to get ideas and tips about cruising and it's usually only for a month or so before I cruise. We haven't cruised in 6 years (for many reasons) and after reading some of the comments here, I'm a little concerned about our upcoming cruise next week. With all the dogs wearing dresses in strollers, dirty cabins, terrible food, emotionally unstable people and "drunkards", I do hope we survive and have a great vacation! Times have sure changed!!! For the record, we have 3 senior Shih Tzus and the last thing I want to do is take them on a cruise ship! We have a wonderful pet sitter that comes to our home and they are happy and I'm happy!! :D:D

Been on here 20 yrs(AOL's Cruise Critic), always been some negative. Same with posting about cruise or a Comment Card most people will never do it if they had a perfect cruise and was nothing wrong....