Odyssey - Santorini Caution

[marama]

to be honest riding and using any animal for transportation is cruelty. with the exception possibly of well managed and kept horses in a good stable( personally not my thing but from horse friends who love horses i can see how they are well cared for).

 

the number of people who boast about riding elephants in asia on holidays disgusts me - and they don't seem to understand the elephants are disciplined and managed with a hook.... and when you look at the damage on the animals in real sanctuaries - you see how they are damaged by tourism ( note if you are visiting an animal sanctuary - really research they are a sanctuary as some are really animal shows with the animals being treated badly) no real sanctuary will offer rides on the animals.

 

how a 20stone tourist thinks it's acceptable to ride a small donkey up steps in 30plus degree heat really makes me angry.

 

there's a lot of talk about dress code on these boards - perhaps cruelty and ignorance should be banned in the dress code all the time.

 

 

Very well said by you and Cariad1000. I also feel the same way when I see one poor horse toiling up a hill in the sun in Valletta ( and there are many hills here) with a carriage full of tourists. Many of these horses travel miles just to get to Valletta in the morning before they even start work - and then home again later on. Of course there are responsible owners but there are also many who beat their animals and don't give them water during the daytime because they fear complaints if the horse urinates. Look at their mouths, many are foaming. Please don't use them - but when you see them, do ask them when their horse last had a drink.

[Pavovsky]

Here here.

 

I am still a meat eater but will only buy high welfare (I am willing to pay a big premium for this). I know this may sound contradictory but .....Animals deserve to be treated well.

 

 

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[stamfordian]

This, is why I don’t go to Europe in the summer.

Seems a little unfair to dismiss a whole continent, particularly one that was the birthplace of ancient and modern Western civilisation and culture, on the basis of a few donkeys and queues for a cable car.:cool::cool:

[Kate-AHF]

The birthplace of Western civilization and culture will still be there in April and October. And it will be infinitely more enjoyable. I'm with Kevn, and I will not travel south of Amsterdam in the summer anymore. It's just not fun.

[Bobtails12]

Seems a little unfair to dismiss a whole continent, particularly one that was the birthplace of ancient and modern Western civilisation and culture, on the basis of a few donkeys and queues for a cable car.:cool::cool:

 

i think you are missing( deliberately or otherwise) two issues.

 

1. much of europe is over populated in summer and and at other times of the year. I say this as a european living in europe who has lived in 6 countries - all the places I've lived are tourist destinations and i do like to travel and travel a lot inside and outside europe - but in the last 5 years or so it has become over populated in summer. venice is saying it. santorini is saying it, even listened to programme about tourism about ireland saying dublin now overcrowded. it is no longer comfortable to travel in much of europe in summer. e.g. i live in paris and galleries lafayette opened a special store for chinese customers across the road from the main store - its that busy. europe is over touristed in the summer and i agree autumn/spring so much more pleasant. santorini cable queues is just one aspect of over crowding.

 

 

 

2.. cruelty to animals - as a tourist you can decide where to spend your tourist money. people who decide to inflict cruelty on animals abroad are the same in my mind as those that decide to inflict cruelty on children in certain s3x travel industry countries e.g. thailand - it is your money and you can decide if you will be part of promoting pain or not when travelling. i like thailand- i like asian countries - but will not help someone inflict pain on others.

 

if you are at home in london or melbourne or boston and see a man kicking his dog on the street- do you shout STOP at him or offer him 10 euros to kick his dog too? those who ride animals who are treated badly and support those who brutalise animals are offering the 10 euros to kick the dog too.

 

Do you think it doesn't matter being cruel and inflicting pain because you are outside your normal geography ?

 

would you be ashamed for your neighbours / family/ colleagues/ clients to see you paying to kick the dog? then don't do it in someone else's country.

 

support the local economy absolutely - buy craft- buy local made produce - buy a beer - pay a driver to tour an island - but PLEASE DON'T BUY CRUELTY.

[Roxburgh]

i think you are missing( deliberately or otherwise) two issues.

 

1. much of europe is over populated in summer and and at other times of the year. I say this as a european living in europe who has lived in 6 countries - all the places I've lived are tourist destinations and i do like to travel and travel a lot inside and outside europe - but in the last 5 years or so it has become over populated in summer. venice is saying it. santorini is saying it, even listened to programme about tourism about ireland saying dublin now overcrowded. it is no longer comfortable to travel in much of europe in summer. e.g. i live in paris and galleries lafayette opened a special store for chinese customers across the road from the main store - its that busy. europe is over touristed in the summer and i agree autumn/spring so much more pleasant. santorini cable queues is just one aspect of over crowding.

 

 

 

2.. cruelty to animals - as a tourist you can decide where to spend your tourist money. people who decide to inflict cruelty on animals abroad are the same in my mind as those that decide to inflict cruelty on children in certain s3x travel industry countries e.g. thailand - it is your money and you can decide if you will be part of promoting pain or not when travelling. i like thailand- i like asian countries - but will not help someone inflict pain on others.

 

if you are at home in london or melbourne or boston and see a man kicking his dog on the street- do you shout STOP at him or offer him 10 euros to kick his dog too? those who ride animals who are treated badly and support those who brutalise animals are offering the 10 euros to kick the dog too.

 

Do you think it doesn't matter being cruel and inflicting pain because you are outside your normal geography ?

 

would you be ashamed for your neighbours / family/ colleagues/ clients to see you paying to kick the dog? then don't do it in someone else's country.

 

support the local economy absolutely - buy craft- buy local made produce - buy a beer - pay a driver to tour an island - but PLEASE DON'T BUY CRUELTY.

 

You are right about tourism. We also live in a tourist town and, on busy days, it can be impossible for us to get into town due to traffic being backed up for miles.

 

Many destinations across the world are overcrowded with tourist and the summer is the worst. For that reason we generally don't travel in the summer months other than visiting the grandchildren. Increasing, our cruising months are December to March and we try to choose destinations outside the usual tourist circuit.

[Bobtails12]

You are right about tourism. We also live in a tourist town and, on busy days, it can be impossible for us to get into town due to traffic being backed up for miles.

 

Many destinations across the world are overcrowded with tourist and the summer is the worst. For that reason we generally don't travel in the summer months other than visiting the grandchildren. Increasing, our cruising months are December to March and we try to choose destinations outside the usual tourist circuit.

 

absolutely agree - and the funny thing is parts of europe crowded to within an inch of its life in april- october is beautiful and magical rest of the year. EZE in november with empty streets and beautiful lanes - dublin beaches in december for a walk( dublin last year we were there in december was 17 degrees by the way) london in march - bordeaux in october...Lyon in january when you can sit on the quays wrapped up and drink champagne and eat oysters for sunday brunch....

 

having said that this year we are travelling in august - due to work commitments in sept and october - but i am hoping the seaborne trip will be a kind one....and we'll just sea day and read on santorini or other over populated places - but please don't give your money to making a animal's life worse.

 

if i had to pick a time to visit europe it would be autumn - still pleasant weather( was minus 8 in march in paris this year so spring been a hit and miss) and there is some calm - you can sit inside and enjoy the brasseries or outside and enjoy calmer streets. big cities are always busy - but european summer is overrated in most places.....

[frantic36]

I understand the wisdom with what is being said about not travelling in Summer to Europe, but for some of us due to family issues, that is when we can travel, or in January/February. Since I am not one who enjoys cold weather I am unlikely to travel to Europe then. This will change in a few years but I won't stop travelling to Europe in order to avoid the crowds.

 

We are in Paris at the moment and apart from the HUGE crowd lining up to see Musee D'Orsay the amount of people is quite manageable. Even with D'Orsay we will just visit in the evening at late opening and it should be fine. When we visit Venice we aim to stay awhile so we can enjoy it without the crowds in the early morning and late afternoon.

 

So back to my point, sometimes people can't choose to travel outside of the busy periods and we just adjust to the crowds.

 

Totally agree with avoiding the animal cruelty. It breaks my heart when I see the horses/donkeys standing in the heat. I wish it was just banned outright by the authorities.

 

I want to thank the original poster for the warning. I will be visiting Santorini next July and will now know to work on a way to enjoy the day.

 

Julie

[Bobtails12]

i absolutely accept about the travel during peak times and sometimes and some people not having a choice.

 

it is a fact and the numbers being thrown out there are quite stark - that the numbers travelling now in certain cities and tourist attractions vs 5-7 years ago has multiplied and reached a peak and beyond capacity.

 

then sometimes it is personal- some people would go into an overcrowded bar or restaurant at a festival/ holiday where you can't move your elbows for being tightly packed - and be fine with it- others would like to move their elbows....and can't stand that.

 

certain european places are at the point of not moving elbows.

 

you can of course still visit in peak- but it takes more time - and some of the enjoyment is mixed as crowds e.g. visiting Rodin museum and being able to stand back and look at the sculptures or having 2000 people around them? and you are unable to see ...

Edited July 4, 2018 by Bobtails12
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[Daveywavey70]

I Was there 2 weeks ago and found the place to be absolutely magical. I was on Celestyal and having checked beforehand I knew that we were the only ship in port that day. The tour operators were very sharp telling people that the boat was leaving in 5 minutes so it was cash only (€20). It did leave fairly quickly and went straight to Oia where it docked straight away without problems. I was a little unsure about where to go and had to ask but the bus was there waiting and took us straight up to the car park. Spent a very pleasant couple of hours wandering around, despite being off season it was still busy. don't think I'd like to be there high season. The bus was waiting to take us back to Fira right on time at 7.30 p.m. No directions from the bus to the cable car at all. No lines at the cable car (approx 8.00). Tender waiting for us and speedy transfer back to the ship. The problems discussed are obviously relating to volume of passengers so perhaps do a bit of research as to how many ships and passengers are in port before you decide how to spend the day or consider visiting in shoulder months. Im so glad I did.

 

[koalapanda]

Thank you Lincslady for your advice. Santorini is such a visual pleasure it would be sad not to revisit. We will follow your advice on our future eighth visit.

I must say we were lucky last year in early May 2018 on Encore to have a quiet day in Santorini. It was lovely .

[brittany12]

So late weighing in on this topic, but have to 100% agree with those who say avoid getting off ship at Santorini in the high summer months. Or pick a cruise that does not stop there. The big ships and their thousands of passengers descending onto the island just overwhelm the island. Very unpleasant. And so commercial. We were on the Odyssey few years back and were so turned off by the crowds. Mykonos not much better but lovely restaurants there, and no donkeys or tram. The little islands SB chose for our cruise were on the other hand a total pleasure. 

[Hlitner]

Interesting post from the OP.  On the CC Port of Call board for Greece we have oft posted about the problems cited by the OP.  Being on an upscale cruise line cannot protect you from the realities of the island.  The Cable car up to Fira can only move about 600 people per hour (in each direction) so you can imagine what happens when you have a few thousand cruise ship passengers trying to access that mode of transportation.  The boats to Oia are operated by private local folks who do not operate on a real schedule.  They will usually delay until they get a full boat which can be anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour (or more) or not at all if they never get at least 10 passengers.  These boat operators simply get you from Firas dock to Oia's dock, push a bus ticket in you hand, and then you are on your own. 

 

Staying on the ship to avoid long lines at the cable car may or may not be a good strategy as there are often cruise ships that arrive later in the morning or even early afternoon!   The reality is that Santorini has a problem (too many cruisers) and they have been slow to react.  There has been some attempts to limit the number of ships per day, but that has not been much help because even a single ship can have more than 4000 souls.  Our daughter had the right idea when it came to Santorini....she simply flew there and spent a week :).

 

Hank

[jozi]

On 4/28/2019 at 6:14 AM, koalapanda said:

Thank you Lincslady for your advice. Santorini is such a visual pleasure it would be sad not to revisit. We will follow your advice on our future eighth visit.

I must say we were lucky last year in early May 2018 on Encore to have a quiet day in Santorini. It was lovely .

Did you get to Oia or go on an excursion? We were on that same cruise. We made it up the cable car but getting a bus or taxi from Fira to Oia was a fail so we went back to the ship after a drink at that cafe on the top. There were multiple ships in town and it was crowded.  

 

We were happy to sit outside on deck all afternoon and just enjoy the scenery.      (Though it was nice to take the cable car this time as my last trip, in 1973, was all donkeys all the time. )

[koalapanda]

Hi Jozi, I wish we were boarding that wonderful Cruise on Encore again sailing next week from Dubai.

As far as our Santorini adventure is concerned we disembarked after the usual exodus. This time the Cable car ride was easy, no queuing .  The bus to Oia had was waiting. Then we had good walk around, not too crowded, hit all our favourite spots, had coffee and baclava and arrived back just before the end of lunch service.

It was a lucky break as many times we have experienced as other cruisers have. We just go with the flow now, we have been on the excursions etc. Like you if it's too bad or too hot we just go back to the ship. A glass of Prosecco and any annoyances are flushed from our nervous systems.😊😊