Pinnacle travelling pattern (popular dates/itineraries) + Coastal Kitchen Q

[Biker19]

48 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Each door has it's own card reader, either slot or RFID.   Unlike a cabin door which is stand alone (but can be updated wirelessly).

That might be true on some of the newest ships, but don't think so on older ships like Adventure.

 

Biker, who usually doesn't go off on tangents.

[twangster]

The whole C&A system is broken.  A system that grants lifetime status through achievement isn't sustainable.   Your highest elite levels grow and grow and grow at an increasing cost.  The program eventually collapses under its own weight, no longer financially viable as the industry changes and evolves.   That's why the airlines abandoned this approach long ago.  

 

Permanent status isn't loyalty.  It creates a set of customers you have to treat at a high cost even if they now split or do most of their cruising (spend) with a different cruise line. 

 

Loyalty is an on-going relationship by dedicated customers who continue to spend the majority or all of their cruising budget with you.  The more they spend, the more loyal they are.   

 

To fix C&A they need to convert the loyalty program to work like the airlines.  Your status next year is based on your activity this year.  Cruise enough and you can achieve some level of lifetime status but not the highest level of the program.  

 

That will create a top tier level that can enjoy benefits like CK access and SL access without impacting the paying guests who purchase those benefits.  It also motivates customer to cruise exclusively with one line, the basic foundation of loyalty.  

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

That might be true on some of the newest ships, but don't think so on older ships like Adventure.

 

Biker, who usually doesn't go off on tangents.

 

Adventure, nor anything before Oasis doesn't have CK.

[Biker19]

Oops, forgot the discussion is limited to CK only, was thinking of SL - whose overcrowding can also be blamed on Ps.😋

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

I'm in a JS on Oasis next week.  I thought about trying to get into CK a few times but then they put the UDP on sale yesterday so I'll just do specialty next week. 

 

It's just easier than banging on the door hoping to be able to make CK reservations.  While I like CK, it isn't as good as specialty.

 

Pretty sad that as someone who is eligible to eat dinner at CK, I already know as a Sea Class guest that isn't likely to work out very well.  So yeah, the suite program is diluted as it stands.

 

 

Absolutely.  Personally I think they should scrap the DL and just leave all us D+ (and D) with our 3 nightly coupons.  Use the DL space for something else.  Make it a Pinnacle lounge.  They would save enough to expand the happy hour and make it noon to 8pm.  Maybe give D+ an extra coupon but that's just wishful thinking.  

 

Laura will be on with you.  I have to stay home and remodel the condo.

 

Gorgeous weekend here, when do you get in town?

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by John&LaLa

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

Yes and it seems that he's toying with us for his amusement. It's the CC way.

 

It is for the amusement of all.  

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by John&LaLa

[John&LaLa]

13 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Oops, forgot the discussion is limited to CK only, was thinking of SL - whose overcrowding can also be blamed on Ps.😋

 

Don't you know, everything can be blamed on Pinnacles

[cruisinghawg]

22 minutes ago, twangster said:

The whole C&A system is broken.  A system that grants lifetime status through achievement isn't sustainable.   Your highest elite levels grow and grow and grow at an increasing cost.  The program eventually collapses under its own weight, no longer financially viable as the industry changes and evolves.   That's why the airlines abandoned this approach long ago.  

 

Permanent status isn't loyalty.  It creates a set of customers you have to treat at a high cost even if they now split or do most of their cruising (spend) with a different cruise line. 

 

Loyalty is an on-going relationship by dedicated customers who continue to spend the majority or all of their cruising budget with you.  The more they spend, the more loyal they are.   

 

To fix C&A they need to convert the loyalty program to work like the airlines.  Your status next year is based on your activity this year.  Cruise enough and you can achieve some level of lifetime status but not the highest level of the program.  

 

That will create a top tier level that can enjoy benefits like CK access and SL access without impacting the paying guests who purchase those benefits.  It also motivates customer to cruise exclusively with one line, the basic foundation of loyalty.  

So your saying a person with say 5 cruises in a Sky Suite or 35 nights on board should have more perks than someone who has 100 cruises or 700 nights in an inside cabin. Just asking.

Edited November 23, 2018 by cruisinghawg

[John&LaLa]

21 minutes ago, twangster said:

The whole C&A system is broken.  A system that grants lifetime status through achievement isn't sustainable.   Your highest elite levels grow and grow and grow at an increasing cost.  The program eventually collapses under its own weight, no longer financially viable as the industry changes and evolves.   That's why the airlines abandoned this approach long ago.  

 

Permanent status isn't loyalty.  It creates a set of customers you have to treat at a high cost even if they now split or do most of their cruising (spend) with a different cruise line. 

 

Loyalty is an on-going relationship by dedicated customers who continue to spend the majority or all of their cruising budget with you.  The more they spend, the more loyal they are.   

 

To fix C&A they need to convert the loyalty program to work like the airlines.  Your status next year is based on your activity this year.  Cruise enough and you can achieve some level of lifetime status but not the highest level of the program.  

 

That will create a top tier level that can enjoy benefits like CK access and SL access without impacting the paying guests who purchase those benefits.  It also motivates customer to cruise exclusively with one line, the basic foundation of loyalty.  

 

We've cruised enough since attaining Pinnacle last fall to earn 210 C&A points.  I think some of us qualify as frequent cruisers. 😉

[Biker19]

9 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Don't you know, everything can be blamed on Pinnacles

You gotta blame someone - isn't that the way it works? 

[Pratique]

Not blaming the Pinnacle guests, but it seems like they enjoy making themselves the punching bags. Royal causes this with their policy and execution.

[twangster]

14 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

We've cruised enough since attaining Pinnacle last fall to earn 210 C&A points.  I think some of us qualify as frequent cruisers. 😉

 

Exactly.  Cruisers who continue to cruise regularly have nothing to fear in such a system.  Cruisers who are Pinnacle but now sail Princess 10 times and Royal twice lose their Pinnacleness.  

 

15 minutes ago, cruisinghawg said:

So your saying a person with say 5 cruises in a Sky Suite or 35 nights on board should have more perks than someone who has 100 cruises or 700 nights in an inside cabin. Just asking.

 

It's all in the thresholds.  Set Pinnacle to say, 200 nights and $50k spend in a calendar year.  Or 150 nights and $35k.  Whatever... they can set and change the levels to optimize the numbers at each tier.  As the industry and cruise pricing evolves, so can the thresholds.

 

Anyone who has accumulated say 350 nights gets permanent Diamond status.  Cruise 700 nights and you get permanent Diamond Plus status.  No one gets permanent Pinnacle status, that's earned year to year.  Add some benefits to make Diamond mean more, Diamond Plus mean even more.  With just a few hundred Pinnacles each year, they can really give those folks some nice benefits like CK and SL access, free specialty dining, expanded free drinks (full bar menu, frozen drinks, etc).  

Edited November 23, 2018 by twangster

[John&LaLa]

10 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

You gotta blame someone - isn't that the way it works? 

 

Indeed

[Biker19]

^ the big diff is that unlike airlines/hotels loyalty which are mainly earned by business travelers, in cruising it's earned by paying leisure customers - the business case is different. MSC does this with their Black card match program (you lose if you don't cruise often enough) - not sure that works for them tho.

 

Biker, who was one of those very rare cruising customers who took a cruise for business/work.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Biker19

[John&LaLa]

10 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Not blaming the Pinnacle guests, but it seems like they enjoy making themselves the punching bags. Royal causes this with their policy and execution.

 

Punching bags? 

You lost me there. 🤔

[cruisinghawg]

15 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Exactly.  Cruisers who continue to cruise regularly have nothing fear in such a system.  Cruisers who are Pinnacle but now sail Princess 10 times and Royal twice lose their Pinnacleness.  

 

 

It's all in the thresholds.  Set Pinnacle to say, 200 nights and $50k spend in a calendar year.  Or 150 nights and $35k.  Whatever... they can set and change the levels to optimize the numbers at each tier.  As the industry and cruise pricing evolves, so can the thresholds.

 

Anyone who has accumulated say 350 nights gets permanent Diamond status.  Cruise 700 nights and you get permanent Diamond Plus status.  No one gets permanent Pinnacle status, that's earned year to year.  Add some benefits to make Diamond mean more, Diamond Plus mean even more.  With just a few hundred Pinnacles each year, they can really give those folks some nice benefits like CK and SL access, free specialty dining, expanded free drinks (full bar menu, frozen drinks, etc).  

Unfortunately then someone like us would never have any "status" as we cruise once maybe twice a year. Since we have been cruising with RC since 1989 once a year, or maybe twice, and have began to enjoy some perks this just seems unfair.

Edited November 23, 2018 by cruisinghawg

[John&LaLa]

18 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Exactly.  Cruisers who continue to cruise regularly have nothing to fear in such a system.  Cruisers who are Pinnacle but now sail Princess 10 times and Royal twice lose their Pinnacleness.  

 

 

It's all in the thresholds.  Set Pinnacle to say, 200 nights and $50k spend in a calendar year.  Or 150 nights and $35k.  Whatever... they can set and change the levels to optimize the numbers at each tier.  As the industry and cruise pricing evolves, so can the thresholds.

 

Anyone who has accumulated say 350 nights gets permanent Diamond status.  Cruise 700 nights and you get permanent Diamond Plus status.  No one gets permanent Pinnacle status, that's earned year to year.  Add some benefits to make Diamond mean more, Diamond Plus mean even more.  With just a few hundred Pinnacles each year, they can really give those folks some nice benefits like CK and SL access, free specialty dining, expanded free drinks (full bar menu, frozen drinks, etc).  

 

Pinnacleness, I like it.  Almost as good as Painacle. 

 

Change is difficult 

Edited November 23, 2018 by John&LaLa

[Pratique]

4 minutes ago, cruisinghawg said:

Unfortunately then someone like us would never have any "status as we cruise once maybe twice a year. Since we have been cruising with RC since 1989 once a year, or maybe twice some years, we would just be out of any status. 

That's how most loyalty programs work - hotels, airlines, credit cards - every year there is a reset.

[reallyitsmema]

Maybe the answer is that you can only make Pinnacle by actually earning the 700 points yourself.  Or, even better, you earn Pinnacle by sailing 700 nights, no extra points awarded, no sharing status with your significant other. 

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Biker19 said:

^ the big diff is that unlike airlines/hotels loyalty which are mainly earned by business travelers, in cruising it's earned by paying leisure customers - the business case is different.

 

Different yes, but it changes the definition of "loyalty".  Someone who cruised a bunch 20 years ago in inside cabins but rarely cruises now isn't "loyal".  Someone who cruises a lot with Royal, spends a lot, in higher priced cabins all in the now, is "loyal".  Loyalty isn't past tense.   "What have you done for me lately".

 

I'm a million miler on Delta.  Flew them a bunch for years.  I don't fly much anymore, except to cruise really.  If I fly Southwest now am I loyal to Delta?  Why should Delta treat me special if I don't fly with them anymore.  If fly with them once every two years should I be upgraded to first class even if I stopped flying them 5 years ago?  If I had permanent airline status I could fly United, American and Delta and be treated like a king all based on what I used to.  

 

Airline and cruise line travel is vastly different but so can be the triggers and thresholds for loyalty levels.  Upgrades to first class, preferred seat assignments and free checked bags don't map to the cruise industry.  Free drinks and suite restaurants don't map to the airline industry.  The perks and benefits plus the thresholds to earn can be different, the underlying concept is the same.  Drive loyalty.  Drive the desire to be be exclusive and spend all your budget for travel with them even if they might be a little more expensive for one cruise.

 

It's way I don't fly Southwest and I fly Delta to my cruises - maintains a decent level in their loyalty program albeit not the top level I used to be.  My status gives me free checked bags which makes them totally competitive with Southwest pricing for me and I sometime get upgraded to first class for free.  On-going loyalty pays.

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

6:30 is hard to accommodate on a venue that opens at 5:30.  You need all the 5:30 folks out in 60 minutes.  As I recall most of the 5:30 people were Pinnacles, and a good chunk were done in 60 - 90 minutes. 

 

We were generally done by 6:30 the few nights we dined there.  

 

Presidents cruise wasn’t our first sailing Oasis Class in GS But was the first time we had an issue with seating in CK at reserved time. Also the first time we couldn’t find an available seat in the SL. 

 

We had a situation when we were seated once (late) where a table was open next to us. While we were waiting at Maitre ‘D, two ladies with Pinnacle Pins were trying to get seated but told nothing available. We were then seated. I could tell the ladies were not happy. Shortly, they seated themselves. What were the staff to do???  I thought I shared this with you as we were on the same cruise. 

 

 

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

Maybe the answer is that you can only make Pinnacle by actually earning the 700 points yourself.  Or, even better, you earn Pinnacle by sailing 700 nights, no extra points awarded, no sharing status with your significant other. 

 

Pinnacle isn't shared with spouses, only up to D+.  

 

To fix C&A they could adjust the levels (P 1000, D+ 500, D 350, etc) but that extends the problem into the future.  It's still a top heavy system that never cleans itself out unless some one dies.  Permanent status never works in a system that is designed to reward and encourage spend - that is what loyalty is, continued spend, not spend from 30 years go when the industry was remarkably different.  

[reallyitsmema]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

 

Pinnacle isn't shared with spouses, only up to D+.  

 

To fix C&A they could adjust the levels (P 1000, D+ 500, D 350, etc) but that extends the problem into the future.  It's still a top heavy system that never cleans itself out unless some one dies.  Permanent status never works in a system that is designed to reward and encourage spend - that is what loyalty is, continued spend, not spend from 30 years go when the industry was remarkably different.  

 

Absolutely incorrect, right John?

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

Absolutely incorrect, right John?

 

You are correct, I read it wrong.  Children don't get Pinnacleness.  

 

A Crown & Anchor Society member can be added into a relationship with other family members in the same household and receive equivalent tier status; however Cruise Points will remain according to actual cruises taken and calculated using the Program level accrual system described above. Pinnacle Club member tier status will not be awarded to dependents if earned by their parent and/or guardian. Pinnacle Club member tier status can only be earned by an individual, spouse or significant other by one of them accumulating 700 Cruise Points or more in the CAS program.

[John&LaLa]

6 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

 

Presidents cruise wasn’t our first sailing Oasis Class in GS But was the first time we had an issue with seating in CK at reserved time. Also the first time we couldn’t find an available seat in the SL. 

 

We had a situation when we were seated once (late) where a table was open next to us. While we were waiting at Maitre ‘D, two ladies with Pinnacle Pins were trying to get seated but told nothing available. We were then seated. I could tell the ladies were not happy. Shortly, they seated themselves. What were the staff to do???  I thought I shared this with you as we were on the same cruise. 

 

 

 

Yes, I remember, but President Cruuse is way from typical.  I also recall you, as a suite passenger, was told to avoid President Cruise. 😉

 

In my opinion, the President's Cruise was a loyalty event.  It's just once a year on one ship.

 

I'm hoping to book the 50th birthday cruise with Laura's free Prime certificate.   You think that will work?