Dear X, please call your new sliders "waygu-style" and not "kobe"

[molemaui]

If I was still on board reading this, (got off Sunday) I would thank God for my premium drink package!

[markeb]

Only because I've worked in and around the food industry for years, with a decent interest in the beef industry, and recognizing many find this topic mind numbing, but still comment...

 

There are at least three trade associations producing Wagyu beef in the United States, and are the commercial entities that comment on and largely write the USDA labeling guidelines. Their preferred terminology is to refer to the meat as Wagyu or wagyu, and most actually seem to discourage the use of Kobe, American Kobe-Style, Kobe Style, etc., as meaningless. In the United States, the USDA allows labeling as Wagyu on the first cross with an American breed by a purebred (15/16ths) or fullbred (100%). So a Wagyu in the US can be (and probably is) 46.875% Wagyu (which is why you can make ground  beef with it).

 

If you're at one of the 8 or so restaurants in the US that actually import Japanese beef, they will identify it as Kobe, or Miyazaki, etc., and it will likely be graded A4 or A5 (not USDA gradings) indicating the much higher level of marbling. And it'll be a steak, and probably $150-250 for a 4 ounce cut.

 

BTW, to the OP, Wagyu is the breed of cattle and is legally recognized; there would be no such thing as Wagyu-style.

 

Probably most interesting is that in Japan, Miyazaki beef beets Kobe as the best Wagyu, and presumably the best in the world. Only part of that is genetics.

 

And now I've pretty much exhausted my interest level here, which was admittedly higher than average.

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, markeb said:

Only because I've worked in and around the food industry for years, with a decent interest in the beef industry, and recognizing many find this topic mind numbing, but still comment...

 

There are at least three trade associations producing Wagyu beef in the United States, and are the commercial entities that comment on and largely write the USDA labeling guidelines. Their preferred terminology is to refer to the meat as Wagyu or wagyu, and most actually seem to discourage the use of Kobe, American Kobe-Style, Kobe Style, etc., as meaningless. In the United States, the USDA allows labeling as Wagyu on the first cross with an American breed by a purebred (15/16ths) or fullbred (100%). So a Wagyu in the US can be (and probably is) 46.875% Wagyu (which is why you can make ground  beef with it).

 

If you're at one of the 8 or so restaurants in the US that actually import Japanese beef, they will identify it as Kobe, or Miyazaki, etc., and it will likely be graded A4 or A5 (not USDA gradings) indicating the much higher level of marbling. And it'll be a steak, and probably $150-250 for a 4 ounce cut.

 

BTW, to the OP, Wagyu is the breed of cattle and is legally recognized; there would be no such thing as Wagyu-style.

 

Probably most interesting is that in Japan, Miyazaki beef beets Kobe as the best Wagyu, and presumably the best in the world. Only part of that is genetics.

 

And now I've pretty much exhausted my interest level here, which was admittedly higher than average.

Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

[oneputt18]

On 3/1/2020 at 2:56 PM, NutsAboutGolf said:

Did some more researching and go figure, there's already a Craft Social on the Equinox.  On the menu, they're called "Kobe style beef sliders".  I booked the Apex and saw a "new" restaurant is opening in the Apex, didn't realize it was already on the Equinox

 

On the Equinox in Sushi on Five they have always had Kobe beef ramen sliders, so it's not new to Craft Social

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

If only it were accurate:

1)      Kobe is not rated on a rating system with an “A5”

2)      While its possible some non-kobe Japanese beef could be on a rating scale of A1-A5, usually A5 is nothing more than a marketing term created by the seller or the sellers association

3)      I said change Kobe to Waygu/Waygu-style as that’s what many other restaurants do.  “Waygu” means “Japanese cow” and a restaurant claiming their steak is “Waygu” isn’t false advertising

4)      There are roughly 20 restaurants in the US who paid for Kobe certification (half are in Vegas)

5)      In the US, Waygu is often crossbred with the regional cattle, in Texas they often crossbreed Angus with Waygu

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

If only it were accurate:

1)      Kobe is not rated on a rating system with an “A5”

2)      While its possible some non-kobe Japanese beef could be on a rating scale of A1-A5, usually A5 is nothing more than a marketing term created by the seller or the sellers association

3)      I said change Kobe to Waygu/Waygu-style as that’s what many other restaurants do.  “Waygu” means “Japanese cow” and a restaurant claiming their steak is “Waygu” isn’t false advertising

4)      There are roughly 20 restaurants in the US who paid for Kobe certification (half are in Vegas)

5)      In the US, Waygu is often crossbred with the regional cattle, in Texas they often crossbreed Angus with Waygu

 

Almost all terminology in the food industry is created by an industry group. Some, such as prime and choice in the US, have been codified in government requirements. That scale is out of a food and wine article about a year ago interviewing largely the American Wagyu Association. Re-reading, it was attributed to Bungo, not Kobe, so that could be my mis-interpretation, although I've also seen it attributed to Kobe, along with BMS scoring systems that go as high as 12. At that time they were quoting a 2016 study of about 8 restaurants; if that's gone up to 20, I don't have a source for that, and probably didn't feel like looking.

 

Wagyu style is meaningless as halfbreed Angus-Wagyu is legally Wagyu in the United States. Only 100% would be legal in Japan. The Texas Wagyu Association openly states they think the best value is probably the first cross (with Angus). Due to the incredibly limited genetic stock in the US, the higher crosses largely go into breeding (they keep the purebred bulls for crossbreeding). There is apparently a growing market for higher percentage cattle in the US, but they're not doing much of the husbandry that's used in Japan. All of the major Wagyu associations in the US prefer to use the legally accepted terminology in the US, which is Wagyu. The USDA apparently has a labelling initiative on a number of issues out, including breed and place of origin, and they may be making it messier as they appear to be equating Wagyu with American Kobe, and actually have Kobe listed in the draft as a breed example, not a place of origin example. That's probably restaurant and retail driven.

 

Calling it Wagyu is the most accepted and accurate terminology if it's not actual Japanese sourced beef.

 

And this is now way too much information for a cruise board...

[Fouremco]

I'm waiting for @Gonzo70 to weigh in here and provide his commentary on Celebrity's ongoing "Kobe" sales.

[NutsAboutGolf]

10 hours ago, oneputt18 said:

 

On the Equinox in Sushi on Five they have always had Kobe beef ramen sliders, so it's not new to Craft Social

Found a photo of them and a menu from the reflection, $8 for one slider.  I bet they're pretty good if they're charging for them.

[oneputt18]

16 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

Found a photo of them and a menu from the reflection, $8 for one slider.  I bet they're pretty good if they're charging for them.



I had them, they were excellent 

[ldubs]

On 3/3/2020 at 5:43 AM, TeeRick said:

I think all of your friends here would agree with me if we named it the Bo-Burger😀

 

Yes!!  I vote for Bo-Burger!!  😀