What does the future of cruising look like?

[Paulchili]

1 minute ago, pinotlover said:

How about our opioid drug overdose victims that happen to have Covid? How should they be counted? Now, per my Dr., they are counted as Covid cases.

If they are asymptomatic with COVID and die of drug overdose then the drugs are the cause of death, IMO.

[pinotlover]

2 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Personally I think that is too early.

There will be a price to pay for this "civil disobedience" and not always only by the "rebels" - they will infect many innocent bystanders who were obedient and law abiding.

It will only prolong the crisis.

I’ll tell you why I picked that date. Schools have now been canceled until May 1. High school graduations are a huge deal here, in that it is the only graduation many see. If elected officials attempt to cancel all those activities that normally occur mid to late May... It won’t happen. If you or your child doesn’t want to attend, fine. The show will go on.

 

let me add this is the overwhelming opinion I’m hearing. My position is wait and see!

Edited April 4, 2020 by pinotlover

[deadzone1003]

6 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I disagree.

Those who are diabetic may have higher mortality rate when contracting COVID-19 but they would not have died without the COVID-19 - at least not now from Diabetes.

Thus their cause of death IS COVID-19 - ditto for other underlying medical illnesses (obesity, chronic lung disease, heart disease, etc) that would not cause them to die at this moment (maybe eventually)

Their sudden demise is due to COVID-19.

I believe she really want a clarification.  Did the patient actually die from the Wuhan virus or did they die from an underlying condition because they became infected with the Wuhan virus?  In the end it is logical to conclude that the person died because of the virus, but her point was more about how did they actually die?  I am curious how they are really dying.  2/3 of diabetics die because of cardiovasular problems, such as heart attack or stroke.  They could also die because their insulin is too high.  They could die because their lungs become full - in this case, Wuhan virus really did kill them.  Basically, she wanted to know which path the death took.  This is about knowing more so you can understand what you are dealing with.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

1. High school graduations are a huge deal here, in that it is the only graduation many see.

What would you rather miss - your child missing his/her graduation or you or your parents getting COVID (with all the consequences thereof) because your child attended the graduation. There are many much worse things than missing a graduation, even if it’s the only one they’ll ever have. Dying of anyone because of ignorance of others is just one of them.

I know what my choice would be.

Some colleges are planning to postpone their graduations till June or July - why must it be in May?

BTW - where is “here”?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Paulchili

[LHT28]

Here (Toronto)  they are not having graduation  ceremonies  AFAIK

they are not having school at all 

I think they are closed for the rest of the year 

[deadzone1003]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

I’ll tell you why I picked that date. Schools have now been canceled until May 1. High school graduations are a huge deal here, in that it is the only graduation many see. If elected officials attempt to cancel all those activities that normally occur mid to late May... It won’t happen. If you or your child doesn’t want to attend, fine. The show will go on.

 

let me add this is the overwhelming opinion I’m hearing. My position is wait and see!

Think Spring Break or Mardi Gras, what happened to some of those attendees?  Perhaps, it could be done online with the use of Zoom?  These days, you have to think outside of the box to overcome your problem, but stay optimistic.  Yesterday, I was at a wine offering from a winery using Zoom.  You couldn't taste the wine, but you ended up knowing much more about the wine than if you went to the winery.  Ah, that virtual foie gras should go very well with my virtual Pinot Noir.  

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

If you or your child doesn’t want to attend, fine. The show will go on.

How is this behavior different from that of  “antivaxers” you talked about?

Those that attend these mass gatherings endanger the health of others there who then in turn will endanger the health of those that were not even there.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Paulchili

[pinotlover]

Most people get over playing make believe at least in their twenties! I have a large wine cellar and don’t need virtual tastings!

 

I truly don’t know what the future will behold. We seem to have two schools of thought.

 

1.  The 97% that may get sick, or slightly so, will stay hunkered down and stay at home indefinitely as until a vaccination becomes readily available. This is months away.

 

2. The 97% will take the necessary risks to restore their lives and incomes. This will happen in the next 30-60 days.

 

Place your bets and on June 1 we’ll see what has happened. I know where my bet will go.

[clo]

2 hours ago, Paulchili said:

What would you rather miss - your child missing his/her graduation or you or your parents getting COVID (with all the consequences thereof) because your child attended the graduation. There are many much worse things than missing a graduation, even if ihist’s the only one they’ll ever have. Dying of anyone because of ignorance of others is just one of them.

I know what my choice would be.

Some colleges are planning to postpone their graduations till June or July - why must it be in May?

BTW - where is “here”?

I'm seeing/hearing some totally elitist doodoo going on. If kids don't understand the big picture then they need to be educated.

 

Univ. Nevada Reno is offering a"virtual" graduation soon or real one at the end of the year or next spring. 

 

This annoys me beyond belief 😞

[Shawnino]

Anybody willfully packing a gymnasium for a graduation should be reported to the school board on suspicion that their own parchment is a fraud.

[Shawnino]

11 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

I believe she really want a clarification.  Did the patient actually die from the Wuhan virus or did they die from an underlying condition because they became infected with the Wuhan virus?  In the end it is logical to conclude that the person died because of the virus, but her point was more about how did they actually die?  I am curious how they are really dying.  2/3 of diabetics die because of cardiovasular problems, such as heart attack or stroke.  They could also die because their insulin is too high.  They could die because their lungs become full - in this case, Wuhan virus really did kill them.  Basically, she wanted to know which path the death took.  This is about knowing more so you can understand what you are dealing with.

 

A distinction without a difference.

Technically, HIV/AIDS has never killed a single person. Rather it weakens the body so that any number of other diseases does the business.

[pinotlover]

Elitist? I suppose it’s elitist to own stocks and bonds. So the future of cruising?

 

If the guests on Bloomberg TV were correct and we don’t go back to work by around 5/1, then another 7,000-10,000 Pts off the Dow in the snap of the fingers. 
 

Another thread is talking about how all the real estate money has dried up. If this continues much longer both residential and commercial real estate will plunder in value. What happens when that $1500 / sf NYC condo is now selling for $750, if they can even find a qualified buyer? Retail space can’t be given away?

 

If we don’t come out of this economic death spiral very soon, the future of cruising will be the least of our concerns. I’m not cruising at a 10,000 Dow. Anyone else been to Egypt and seen the hundreds of cruise ships docked and tied up along the Nile rusting away since the Arab Spring? That’s the future of cruising if we stay hunkered down much longer. 
 

At a 10,000 Dow and a diminutive real estate market, how long will many of the retirement funds last? 
 

That’s right. Stay hunkered down my friends!

[delee78]

11 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Most people get over playing make believe at least in their twenties! I have a large wine cellar and don’t need virtual tastings!

 

I truly don’t know what the future will behold. We seem to have two schools of thought.

 

1.  The 97% that may get sick, or slightly so, will stay hunkered down and stay at home indefinitely as until a vaccination becomes readily available. This is months away.

 

2. The 97% will take the necessary risks to restore their lives and incomes. This will happen in the next 30-60 days.

 

Place your bets and on June 1 we’ll see what has happened. I know where my bet will go.

 

Oh my goodness, do people really feel that #2 is a good idea? 

 

COVID 19 is a contagious virus.  If you "accept the risk" and go back to your normal life, you are not just accepting that risk for yourself.  Best case - we all go back out and the moment that someone becomes contagious, they also show symptoms and immediately isolate.  But, what if you are contagious before you show symptoms?  Or you never show symptoms?  Fine - all of the people in the #2 scenario accepted the risk.  So, it is on them.  But, what about all of the people who don't get to accept the risk before going out there in the world?  What about the folks at the grocery store?  Or your mailman?  Or the Amazon drivers?  I guess they are just collateral damage? 

 

And then, in scenario number 2 above, you go out and contract COVID 19 and get sick.  Again, you accepted the risk so that is on you. 

 

However, you probably aren't going to just accept your fate and risk death in home isolation.  So, you show up at a hospital.  I guess all of those folks at the hospital should get no consideration either?  Why should we care about all those doctors and nurses if you have a graduation to get to? 

 

I married to a pretty outwardly tough guy.  Rarely shows emotions.  I just saw him spend an hour with his head in his hands on the verge of tears.  Why?  He just spent the past 14 hours working as a RN at a hospital.  Would you like to know how his night was? 

 

He doesn't get to accept the risk.  He is assuming that all of you are going to pick scenario #1 above. 

[deadzone1003]

53 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

 

A distinction without a difference.

Technically, HIV/AIDS has never killed a single person. Rather it weakens the body so that any number of other diseases does the business.

I believed most deaths were given as that person died of "....." brought on by HIV/AIDS or that person has AIDS and eventually die of "....".  We just want more information.  The less you know, the more you are afraid.

[deadzone1003]

For those who are complaining about this thread being hijacked, not really, if you don't understand what is causing the future to be so muddy and that there are so many outcome still to be undecided (for example, how bad will the economy become), it is very difficult to see what the future may hold - everything is wild speculation and generally without much basis. 

 

Here is an update report of the low German death rate.  I was incorrect in my earlier remark.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/germany-has-a-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-heres-why.html

 

[susiesan]

17 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Are you ready to go out now? If not, when? Do you feel lucky - to paraphrase Dirty Harry.

I disagree with dead zone on his forecast for the future. There will come a time, in the near future, that the majority of the population,without underlying conditions , say “ Enough”, and break social distancing. They will take their chances on no to non severe symptoms to get it over with and get on with life. Then, until that vaccine is developed and widely circulated, we’ll have  a split society. Those with immunity and rebuilding their lives and those with a host of underlying conditions that remain hunkered down. The US and the world will not stay in isolation indefinitely. 

 

 

Agree with pinotlover, we cannot be locked in indefinitely. I never stopped going out, I am still going out to work every day as I run an essential business. I am 65 years old, supposedly at high risk due to my age. I am extremely fit and healthy and have a good immune system as I rarely get sick with even a cold or flu. My 70 year old retired husband goes grocery shopping, runs errands every 2-3 days. He is also fit and healthy with no underlying conditions. We choose to take the risk to live our lives as close to normal as we can. We have made a studied and intelligent decision about going out, has nothing to do with luck.

If my June 26 cruise were to be a go and I could get a flight to Copenhagen I would not hesitate to proceed. It has not officially be en cancelled as of yet but I am sure it will. And when it is I will book the same cruise for August 2021. If the Wu Flu is still around then it means it has become part of life.

Edited April 4, 2020 by susiesan

[susiesan]

12 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Most people get over playing make believe at least in their twenties! I have a large wine cellar and don’t need virtual tastings!

 

I truly don’t know what the future will behold. We seem to have two schools of thought.

 

1.  The 97% that may get sick, or slightly so, will stay hunkered down and stay at home indefinitely as until a vaccination becomes readily available. This is months away.

 

2. The 97% will take the necessary risks to restore their lives and incomes. This will happen in the next 30-60 days.

 

Place your bets and on June 1 we’ll see what has happened. I know where my bet will go.

Don't you mean the 3% that may get sick? I'm with #2 school of thought. I need a vacation now!

[delee78]

1 minute ago, susiesan said:

Agree with pinotlover, we cannot be locked in indefinitely. I never stopped going out, I am still going out to work every day as I run an essential business. I am 65 years old, supposedly at high risk due to my age. I am extremely fit and healthy and have a good immune system as I rarely get sick with even a cold or flu. My 70 year old retired husband goes grocery shopping, runs errands every 2-3 days. He is also fit and healthy with no underlying conditions. We choose to take the risk to live our lives as close to normal as we can. We have made a studied and intelligent decision about going out, has nothing to do with luck.

If my June 26 cruise were to be a go and I could get a flight to Copenhagen I would not hesitate to proceed. It has not officially be en cancelled as of yet but I am sure it will. And when it is I will book the same cruise for August 2021. If the Wu Flu is still around then it means it has become part of life.

 

Wow. 

 

I need to convince my husband to quit his job.  This is crazy. 

 

If you get sick, are you going to a hospital?

[susiesan]

3 minutes ago, delee78 said:

 

Wow. 

 

I need to convince my husband to quit his job.  This is crazy. 

 

If you get sick, are you going to a hospital?

What should I do, close down my business? I sell air filters that are used in all buildings including hospitals. If the filters are dirty and there are no more to be installed then the building has to shut down. If there is no ventilation in the buildings that house computer servers then there is no internet. If there is no ventilation in the grocery stores and grocery warehouses then they have to close. Most people commenting have no clue about how the real world works. Those who are freaked out need to self isolate and protect themselves. 

[delee78]

Just now, susiesan said:

What should I do, close down my business? I sell air filters that are used in all buildings including hospitals. If the filters are dirty and there are no more to be installed then the building has to shut down. If there is no ventilation in the buildings that house computer servers then there is no internet. If there is no ventilation in the grocery stores and grocery warehouses then they have to close. Most people commenting have no clue about how the real world works. Those who are freaked out need to self isolate and protect themselves. 

That's not what I am reacting to....

 

You said " My 70 year old retired husband goes grocery shopping, runs errands every 2-3 days. He is also fit and healthy with no underlying conditions. We choose to take the risk to live our lives as close to normal as we can. We have made a studied and intelligent decision about going out, has nothing to do with luck. "

 

Your essential business is one thing.  But, you said in the quote above that your husband goes out every 2-3 days and that you take risks to live as close to normal as you can.  You also states in another post that you agree with pinotlover's scenario #2 - we should go back to normal with the 97% accepting risk. 

 

You are not just accepting the risk for you!!!!  When you get sick and show up at the hospital, you will be cared for by doctors and nurses WHO DO NOT GET TO MAKE THAT RISK DECISION!!!  They are relying on everyone staying home and practicing social distancing.  What if all of the nurses at your local hospital decided it is not worth it and quit?  You and your husband do your errands every 2-3 days and get sick.  Now you show up at the hospital - and would want someone there to help you, right?