Cruises looking good to restart by Dec (florida)

[seaman11]

23 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Members of the Long Shoremen aren't cruise line employees. They work for the port.

Misleading article/news clip.

i agree they are port employees .   but i disagree that they will need 6 weeks after the cdc lifts the ban to cruise.  because they will start somewhat before that to get ready . obviously they are eager to go as soon as they can . they will not waste a month not sailing when they could have.  

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, seaman11 said:

 

https://wsvn.com/news/local/cruise-ship-employees-hold-protest-at-port-everglades-urging-cdc-not-to-extend-no-sail-order/

 

54 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Members of the Long Shoremen aren't cruise line employees. They work for the port.

 

Very true @beerman2. To me, this article is another stark reminder of the number of hard working people, in addition to the actual cruise line employees, whose livelihood is being decimated by this U.S. cruising shut down. Not to mention the hotel, restaurant, & bar industry employees (to name a few) in and around the cruise ship port(s).

[beerman2]

37 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

i agree they are port employees .   but i disagree that they will need 6 weeks after the cdc lifts the ban to cruise.  because they will start somewhat before that to get ready . obviously they are eager to go as soon as they can . they will not waste a month not sailing when they could have.  

I’m sure they are eager, didn’t the cruise lines waste months trying to get some protocols together. 
It’s a week away from pushing November , the staffing/ quarantine/training needed to start yesterday. And there have been few reports they have.

[seaman11]

2 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

I’m sure they are eager, didn’t the cruise lines waste months trying to get some protocols together. 
It’s a week away from pushing November , the staffing/ quarantine/training needed to start yesterday. And there have been few reports they have.

My thinking is they will get 3-4 weeks notice in advance that its going to happen so they will be ready by that time for at least 1 ship.  not sure dec 1st is that date but we will see.  As i posted port workers need it , the ports need the fees. the state needs the traffic it brings . its just a shame this was not handled properly from the beginning. could have been cruises by aug , if it was done right and people listened to the protocols. 

[beerman2]

1 minute ago, seaman11 said:

My thinking is they will get 3-4 weeks notice in advance that its going to happen so they will be ready by that time for at least 1 ship.  not sure dec 1st is that date but we will see.  As i posted port workers need it , the ports need the fees. the state needs the traffic it brings . its just a shame this was not handled properly from the beginning. could have been cruises by aug , if it was done right and people listened to the protocols. 

Many workers were/are affected not just cruise related. 
 

Do you think pax will adhere to the protocols , many after all don’t think rules/protocols pertain to them. We’ve already seen that , as you said it’s why we are in the position we are.

 

Things are spiking again whether it’s through more testing or not. It’s only going to take a few cases on board and then it will be a bigger problem 

[seaman11]

Just now, beerman2 said:

Many workers were/are affected not just cruise related. 
 

Do you think pax will adhere to the protocols , many after all don’t think rules/protocols pertain to them. We’ve already seen that , as you said it’s why we are in the position we are.

 

Things are spiking again whether it’s through more testing or not. It’s only going to take a few cases on board and then it will be a bigger problem 

all florida business has been open for some months now.  so the cruise business is more effected then the others , and some other like transportation hotels restaurant ect are affected indirectly by cruises being shut down.   I  tend to agree we cant get everyone to listen however can be removed or not let back on the ship if they break protocol like europe is doing.  

 

seems like in America at least its here to stay , so now we can only live with it.  i dont feel it will go away for a long time.,  have ppl sign a waiver of risk and lets get this thing going.  if ppl dont feel safe yet i totally understand just wait. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

Members of the Long Shoremen aren't cruise line employees. They work for the port.

Misleading article/news clip.

Yeah, all those guys seeing the easy six-figure money go out the window, and they might actually have to work a nasty container ship to keep up their six-figure income.

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

seems like in America at least its here to stay , so now we can only live with it.  i dont feel it will go away for a long time.,  have ppl sign a waiver of risk and lets get this thing going.  if ppl dont feel safe yet i totally understand just wait.

As I've said repeatedly on this subject, the CDC does not care if you feel safe cruising, and really doesn't care if you catch covid while on the ship.  They care about the potential to spread it to others, who may not have your risk tolerance, once you leave the ship.

[seaman11]

48 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

As I've said repeatedly on this subject, the CDC does not care if you feel safe cruising, and really doesn't care if you catch covid while on the ship.  They care about the potential to spread it to others, who may not have your risk tolerance, once you leave the ship.

Well that is why protocols and a bubble will be in place as well as testing. no one is allowed to go off on there own , there will be tight measure as we have seen in europe.  ppl are flying to mexico and all sorts of places right now and coming back, casinos are open ect. the cdc is vilifying cruises  imo. 

[broberts]

3 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

Well that is why protocols and a bubble will be in place as well as testing. no one is allowed to go off on there own , there will be tight measure as we have seen in europe.  ppl are flying to mexico and all sorts of places right now and coming back, casinos are open ect. the cdc is vilifying cruises  imo. 

 

To suggest that the CDC has some animus toward an entire industry is ridiculous. It is especially silly given that the organization is imply trying to fulfill its mandate to protect people from infectious diseases.

[csopi]

I have cancelled all my 2021 cruises and rebooked for 2022.

Don’t  see anything happening before summer of 2021 anyway.

Going to take a year off from cruising and make up for it later hopefully.

Just way too much uncertainty with border closings ( I live in Canada) flights, quarantine restrictions, not sure if they will give you travellers insurance anyway against this virus.

Hopefully within a year it will all be sorted out A vaccine will be in place and things will return to being somewhat normal again.

Edited October 25, 2020 by csopi

[seaman11]

On 10/23/2020 at 7:15 AM, beerman2 said:

Seaman11 I wish you well . Mid December might be feasible, but remember it will be 4-6 weeks after CDC recinds the No Sail. (Oct. 31st)

 

3 of those 4-6 will just be getting crew back ( 2 weeks quarantine) and then the training on new protocols. And we don't even have a clue whether   the 74 Healthy Sail recommendations/ guidelines have ALL been implemented yet. 

 

Many seem to think  provisioning the ship will be easy. Are the wholesale distributors going to be able to supply?

https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-begins-restaffing-cruise-ships-hope-december-2020-return/

[farmersfight]

6 hours ago, seaman11 said:

https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-begins-restaffing-cruise-ships-hope-december-2020-return/

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The CDC's No-Sail order expires Oct 31st and it has not (and looks like will not) be extended due to the White House. My question is, will the CDC still prohibit a cruise line from operating out of U.S. ports if they haven't satisfied the CDC that they've implemented the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations, after Oct 31st? Or, will the White House over ride the CDC again and allow the cruise line to resume?

 

From the linked article above, it looks like Carnival is serious about a limited Dec resumption out of those 2 Florida ports. It will be interesting to see if Carnival actually resumes cruising again in Dec.

[beerman2]

7 hours ago, seaman11 said:

https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-begins-restaffing-cruise-ships-hope-december-2020-return/

“Hopefully” is the key word and was mentioned more than once. I wish them well getting over the high hurdles. 
 

Again the cruise lines have been hopeful for many months, let’s see how it plays out.

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The CDC's No-Sail order expires Oct 31st and it has not (and looks like will not) be extended due to the White House. My question is, will the CDC still prohibit a cruise line from operating out of U.S. ports if they haven't satisfied the CDC that they've implemented the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations, after Oct 31st? Or, will the White House over ride the CDC again and allow the cruise line to resume?

 

From the linked article above, it looks like Carnival is serious about a limited Dec resumption out of those 2 Florida ports. It will be interesting to see if Carnival actually resumes cruising again in Dec.

I don't see that the Pence override of the CDC's extension means that it will not be extended again, for a month or whatever, just that it would not be extended until February.  It left open, at the time, for further consideration in the future.  I have my suspicions that because the CDC issued a "request for information" period (which was not really for cruise passengers to comment on), that a permanent change in federal regulations is imminent (the no sail order specifically notes that the requirements are an "emergency order"), and that while a "no sail" order may expire, the CDC will still require all of the requirements of the no sail order to become the necessary requirements to obtain "pratique" or health clearance to enter US waters.  It may well have been the CDC's idea to ask for a long extension, hoping that it would get a short one instead, just long enough to meet the time constraints of changing  regulations.   It is not yet understood whether the recommendations made by the Healthy Sail board meet the CDC's requirements, and further there doesn't seem to be any action/response plans submitted that detail how the ships will implement the Healthy Sail recommendations, and these detailed action plans are what the CDC is requiring.

[DCGuy64]

Hard to know what's going on behind the scenes, but I see it this way: the CDC is not allowing any sailings from US waters at the moment, yet they haven't commented (at least not publicly) on the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations, which would appear to meet the CDC's requirement that cruise lines adopt reasonable procedures to ensure a safe sailing environment. I wish they'd at least issue some sort of statement that they are reviewing the panel's 74 point plan and helping the industry resume sailing. I realize that the CDC's mission is about public health and not about helping the tourism/leisure industry, however they are the only thing standing in the way of a resumption of cruising. Again, I only know what they've stated publicly; what may or may not be going on behind closed doors is another matter.

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't see that the Pence override of the CDC's extension means that it will not be extended again, for a month or whatever, just that it would not be extended until February.  It left open, at the time, for further consideration in the future.  I have my suspicions that because the CDC issued a "request for information" period (which was not really for cruise passengers to comment on), that a permanent change in federal regulations is imminent (the no sail order specifically notes that the requirements are an "emergency order"), and that while a "no sail" order may expire, the CDC will still require all of the requirements of the no sail order to become the necessary requirements to obtain "pratique" or health clearance to enter US waters.  It may well have been the CDC's idea to ask for a long extension, hoping that it would get a short one instead, just long enough to meet the time constraints of changing  regulations.   It is not yet understood whether the recommendations made by the Healthy Sail board meet the CDC's requirements, and further there doesn't seem to be any action/response plans submitted that detail how the ships will implement the Healthy Sail recommendations, and these detailed action plans are what the CDC is requiring.

Thank you, seems many are discounting the Healthy Sails 74 recommendations and when/if the cruise lines have a plan in place for those. Those recommendations look good and I would think they would appease the CDC.

 

Do you feel the CDC will be sailing on the first few sailings to "see" exactly how the cruise lines are implemting/policing the protocols?

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't see that the Pence override of the CDC's extension means that it will not be extended again, for a month or whatever, just that it would not be extended until February.  It left open, at the time, for further consideration in the future.  I have my suspicions that because the CDC issued a "request for information" period (which was not really for cruise passengers to comment on), that a permanent change in federal regulations is imminent (the no sail order specifically notes that the requirements are an "emergency order"), and that while a "no sail" order may expire, the CDC will still require all of the requirements of the no sail order to become the necessary requirements to obtain "pratique" or health clearance to enter US waters.  It may well have been the CDC's idea to ask for a long extension, hoping that it would get a short one instead, just long enough to meet the time constraints of changing  regulations.   It is not yet understood whether the recommendations made by the Healthy Sail board meet the CDC's requirements, and further there doesn't seem to be any action/response plans submitted that detail how the ships will implement the Healthy Sail recommendations, and these detailed action plans are what the CDC is requiring.

 

Thanks @chengkp75, great information. Very interesting what you said about the CDC issuing a "request for information (or comment)" and does indeed seem indicate that the CDC has drafted regulation(s) to address this situation and to more firmly put in place what they were requiring in the No Sail order and to extend these requirements, as you said, in order for the cruise ships to obtain free pratique (health clearance) to enter U.S. waters.

 

I agree with you, the CDC may extend the No Sail order further for a shorter time (than all the way out to Feb 2021) in order to buy time to get the new regulation(s) in place. I guess we should know something very soon as we only have a few more days until the Oct 31st expiration of the No Sail order. Thanks again...

Edited October 29, 2020 by farmersfight

[farmersfight]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I realize that the CDC's mission is about public health and not about helping the tourism/leisure industry, however they are the only thing standing in the way of a resumption of cruising.

 

One thing that isn't helping is the current spiking of covid cases in Europe (& here in the U.S.) and the new lock down including the shut down again of the few cruises that were happening over there. This virus is insidious.

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Thank you, seems many are discounting the Healthy Sails 74 recommendations and when/if the cruise lines have a plan in place for those. Those recommendations look good and I would think they would appease the CDC.

 

Do you feel the CDC will be sailing on the first few sailings to "see" exactly how the cruise lines are implemting/policing the protocols?

Everyone feels that the Healthy Sail board report is the blueprint for restarting cruises, but it is a general policy statement, and the CDC is looking for a response/action plan that gets right down into the "weeds" with details of how the policies are to be implemented.  USCG requires a couple of hundred pages for the Vessel Response Plan (for oil spills), and the CDC's own VSP is 291 pages long.  This is what the CDC has been waiting for.

 

As for riding the ships to check on protocols, to be honest I don't think they hold much hope for compliance with this, based on the results on land in the US, so the major requirements they will be looking for are the medical facilities, the quarantine facilities, and the contracted private health care, transportation, and quarantine facilities, that the lines are proposing to use instead of the public health care system.  These, and question/answer sessions with selected crew as to what their duties are, and checking record keeping, could all be done at a port inspection, just like their VSP inspections.  Again, the CDC's mandate is not to keep passengers on foreign ships healthy, it is to prevent any ill passenger leaving that ship and infecting others.

[MsTabbyKats]

Something is hitting a nerve with me.

Let's take "Mr Joe Blow".  He leaves from his home Saturday morning to catch a flight to FL (currently highly infected and no protection requirements) and get on his cruise that afternoon.  He's healthy when he leaves home.  He gets to FL and stops somewhere to eat.  He gets to the port without a temperature and tests negative.

Unfortunately, while Joe was eating before boarding the ship, someone at a nearby table had a nice big sneeze...and you guessed it...Joe caught the virus.  

 

I don't know about CDC mandates and protocols.  And being from NY, where there's no way a ship would be allowed to sail with people coming from "just about every other state".....I just don't see how a ship would be allowed to sail from FL. 

 

I apologize for  not citing rules & regulations or knowing who's in charge of what....but this is my logic speaking.

 

[DCGuy64]

Very exciting news here. Looks like Carnival will be sailing soon.

https://www.traveloffpath.com/carnival-cruises-begins-staffing-first-ships-in-the-caribbean/

 

[broberts]

5 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Very exciting news here. Looks like Carnival will be sailing soon.

https://www.traveloffpath.com/carnival-cruises-begins-staffing-first-ships-in-the-caribbean/

 

 

Wishful thinking.

[Carpe-Diem]

24 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Something is hitting a nerve with me.

Let's take "Mr Joe Blow".  He leaves from his home Saturday morning to catch a flight to FL (currently highly infected and no protection requirements) and get on his cruise that afternoon.  He's healthy when he leaves home.  He gets to FL and stops somewhere to eat.  He gets to the port without a temperature and tests negative.

Unfortunately, while Joe was eating before boarding the ship, someone at a nearby table had a nice big sneeze...and you guessed it...Joe caught the virus.  

 

I don't know about CDC mandates and protocols.  And being from NY, where there's no way a ship would be allowed to sail with people coming from "just about every other state".....I just don't see how a ship would be allowed to sail from FL. 

 

I apologize for  not citing rules & regulations or knowing who's in charge of what....but this is my logic speaking.

 

But what if...and hear me out on this...Joe Blow goes to Florida, gets a bite to eat, someone sneezes, Joe heads to the ship, tests negative, follows proper hygiene the entire cruise, never gets COVID, has a great vacation. 
Your logic is flawed

Edited October 29, 2020 by Carpe-Diem

[Oxo]

20 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Something is hitting a nerve with me.

Let's take "Mr Joe Blow".  He leaves from his home Saturday morning to catch a flight to FL (currently highly infected and no protection requirements) and get on his cruise that afternoon.  He's healthy when he leaves home.  He gets to FL and stops somewhere to eat.  He gets to the port without a temperature and tests negative.

Unfortunately, while Joe was eating before boarding the ship, someone at a nearby table had a nice big sneeze...and you guessed it...Joe caught the virus.  

 

I don't know about CDC mandates and protocols.  And being from NY, where there's no way a ship would be allowed to sail with people coming from "just about every other state".....I just don't see how a ship would be allowed to sail from FL. 

 

I apologize for  not citing rules & regulations or knowing who's in charge of what....but this is my logic speaking.

 

You posted a very valuable and realistic possibility. It's more than a possibility. It will happen! Thank you for taking the time and effort to express your opinion.

Please Stay Safe!