Woe With O ---Marina 12/1 Changes

[watercruise]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:50 PM, Hlitner said:

Am well aware :(.  When we booked this cruise it was done through what had previously been a decent cruise agency.  But it appears that COVID has taken its toll and this particular agency got rid of a few folks and now wants several business days to even return calls.  I guess the good news is that they are still in business :).  Those of us who have done travel during COVID are getting very used to dealing with "challenges."   But "O" laid out two options today, which is within a month of the cruise.  Option 1 is to keep the booking in which case we must rearrange our air.  No problem dealing with Delta as they quickly refunded all of our miles plus the taxes.  But getting air home from Santiago is a pain (but doable) although not as good a deal as we had from Lima.  

 

But the question here is that "O" not only eliminated two countries (and 4 ports) but then changed the final port.  This actually will be a bigger problem for those on that cruise that intended to go to Machu Picu either post cruise or those who made their own plans to go to Machu Picu before the cruise departing from Lima.  So with less then an month's notice "O" has really messed up the plans of many folks.    As to us, we could still take the cruise and book air from Santigo.  or....we could cancel the cruise in which case "O" is saying we would only get a FCC with no additional compensation.  

 

But the plot thickens.  Compared to many we are in pretty good shape because we have a few options.  Those with plans to Machu Pico are royally screwed.  And since "O" has made so many darn changes I guess we could simply file a "charge back" request with our credit card company  claiming we are not getting the cruise for which we paid  (this would be our last resort).  

 

The issue we have with "O" is that they waited until today (less then one month before the cruise) to notify their customers of all these changes.  And "O" is not offering a full refund to folks who want to cancel.  So here is my dilemma.  I could book air from Santiago tonight...but should I have any faith in "O" that they will not completely change this cruise itinerary tomorrow, next week, or even cancel!  When I talked to "O" 4 days ago (I called about another issue) they assured me that there were no indications of any changes (which now appears to be a big laugh).  

 

In our cruise experience (with 16 cruise other cruise lines) we have never dealt with such a situation and awful customer service.  In "O's" e-mail about the changes they clearly said if we had questions to contact either your cruise agent or Oceania's Customer Service.  Since O is a "Premium Line" (or so some say) we expected that customer service to be helpful.  They were not!  In fact, even MSC's Customer Service is a lot more responsive and they are considered one of the worst.  

 

My issue with "O" is quite simple.  Since they have made such a massive change to this cruise itinerary (including changing the final disembarkation country!) they should offer a refund of the cruise fare.  Offering a FCC that is limited by time (only one year to book another cruise) on a line where many of their future cruises are sold out...is not a particularly good option.  Perhaps O is a Premium Cruise Line but their policies and customer service are bush league.  I would be remiss in not giving a real complement to Delta and their customer service.  When we called them about the problem with our return air from Lima the Delta folks could not have been nicer and more helpful (unlike O).  Delta tried to find a way to change our Lima booking to a Santiago booking but could not come up with any reasonable option.  Unlike "O" Delta quickly agreed to refund all our miles and taxes.  These days few folks have anything good to say about our airlines but now I must admit that Delta's Customer Service makes O look very bad.

 

Hank

I’m sure you’ve all read the email that came yesterday saying do nothing til Monday. Easy to say harder to implement. I too rearranged my tix to fly to Santiago from Lima at a hefty price. 

plus rearranging all private wine excursions only to have to “wait and see” til Monday what the news is. 
I didn’t leave my home yesterday - on hold for hours on end with disconnects to cancel Lima to Santiago flight - had to post message for latam air on Facebook, Instagram and emails til I finally got through last night. 
now waiting to see what needs to be canceled or rescheduled Monday after the next email. 
 

[watercruise]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:59 PM, Hlitner said:

Thank you Paul :).  If you read my recent "too wordy" post I am actually having less problem with the airlines then with "O."  I am appalled that "O" would make these kind of last minute changes (and they are major changes) and then try to dump the responsibility onto the already overworked and understaffed cruise agencies.  When I asked the "O" folks for a refund option (of the paid cruise fare) the comment was "ask your cruise agent to write a letter to somebody in senior management at "O."  FDR should be ashamed!  

 

That process (of dealing with senior management) would likely take weeks or even months which is time we do not have given that this cruise is less than 30 days from now!  It appears that "O" is using an all too common strategy of running out the clock and giving their customers few good options.  Shame on them and FDR.  

 

Hank

When I spoke with customer service on the phone yesterday and asked if there would be additional compensation for all the changes and waste of time they also said ask your agent. I commented “the agency had nothing to do with this” why should they bear the expense when this is clearly an Oceania responsibility. 

[sunlover12]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:08 PM, njhorseman said:

 

c. If the scheduled port of embarkation or final destination is changed, We will arrange transportation to the new port from the originally scheduled port. 

On our first Oceania cruise, the port of embarkation was changed from London to Dover.  O emailed the passengers about 15 hours prior to embarkation.  There was no offer to arrange transportation. We had to scramble to hire a private car which was quite costly. I wish I had known about this at that time.  I know it now and will keep it in mind if it happens again.  Thanks.

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, watercruise said:

I’m sure you’ve all read the email that came yesterday saying do nothing til Monday. Easy to say harder to implement. I too rearranged my tix to fly to Santiago from Lima at a hefty price. 

plus rearranging all private wine excursions only to have to “wait and see” til Monday what the news is. 
I didn’t leave my home yesterday - on hold for hours on end with disconnects to cancel Lima to Santiago flight - had to post message for latam air on Facebook, Instagram and emails til I finally got through last night. 
now waiting to see what needs to be canceled or rescheduled Monday after the next email. 
 

I am often reminded of our February 2020 Nautica cruise and the captain’s announcement that we would disembark in Dubai instead of Singapore.

While standing in line with other Air DIYers for one of the complimentary satellite phones to make air changes, I met a retired Delta pilot. To my question “Will Delta take care of you?” he replied “I do my best to only use United for intercontinental air.” And to my next question “Why?” he added. “United answers the phone.”

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, watercruise said:

I’m sure you’ve all read the email that came yesterday saying do nothing til Monday. Easy to say harder to implement. I too rearranged my tix to fly to Santiago from Lima at a hefty price. 

plus rearranging all private wine excursions only to have to “wait and see” til Monday what the news is. 
I didn’t leave my home yesterday - on hold for hours on end with disconnects to cancel Lima to Santiago flight - had to post message for latam air on Facebook, Instagram and emails til I finally got through last night. 
now waiting to see what needs to be canceled or rescheduled Monday after the next email. 
 

Geez, according to some "cheerleaders" on this thread I am the only person on earth who has some issues with "O."  So surely you are some kind of faux person :(,  Here is the truth of the matter.  When I got through to "O" yesterday (which actually did not take too long) the folks admitted their phones are ringing off the hook and I was thanked for not sounding angry and taking it out on the "O" folks who are paid to deal with irate customers.  This is not a time to be "angry" or irrational as those of us who have been traveling throughout the pandemic understand we need to be somewhat flexible and roll with the waves.....but to a point.  Many others booked on the Marina have much more difficult situations then me since they had planned private tours to Machu Pichu and the potential itinerary changes have created an untenable problem for them.  I agree with the other poster that "O" quickly realized that changing the debarkation/embarkation port by 1500 miles was not workable for many of the cruisers.  "O" can be faulted for their constantly changing advice and their apparent lack of understanding of the impact of their itinerary change.  The truth is that if "O" had simply given a decent cancelation option we think many of those booked would have cancelled.

 

So what to do?  Fortunately in my situation we can wait until next week and give O a chance to try and work out a better solution.  If not, at the worst we will lose a chunk of money (we are talking 5 figures) but will survive :).  Of course it will leave a sour taste in our mouth about "O" which will impact future travel/cruise plans.  I feel bad because of talking DW into trying "O" and telling her about some of the bloggers who have long sang the praises of "O."  But I do think that some of the cheerleaders are living in the past.  Nothing is the same post COVID and "O" (and their NCLH owners) find themselves in a very difficult situation.  They are bleeding cash and their plans to stem the financial drain  are  being threatened by constant problems (around the world) with various governments.  They also need to deal with the reluctance of many cruisers to take a chance and book.  We are risk takers and have been on two fabulous cruises (with Seabourn) since August.  We gambled on "O" and at this time it seems like we may have erred by trusting this company.   But we will wait and see (we have no choice since O refused to let us cancel).

 

 

[Tidalmist]

Does anyone know if Peru and Equador have closed their borders to cruise ships? We are sailing November 9 th. And we were supposed to go to Monaco, but that was changed a while back. We are visiting Nice instead. Very difficult to travel during Covid.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

(blah blah blah) .....But we will wait and see (we have no choice since O refused to let us cancel).

With apologies to Bill Shakespeare (and Queen Gertrude): you “doth protest too much, methinks.”

 

In any case, let’s clarify your continuing misstatement. O did not “refuse” to let you cancel. In fact, they made a reasonable exception to their own T&Cs by waiving any penalties and offering you a 100% FCC for your fare paid (in addition to $ refunds for port fees/taxes and any optional purchases made) should YOU decide to cancel. And FWIW, I explained how best to request a future cruise replacement transfer.

Whatever you choose to do, your only real loss might be $ associated with travel arrangements you decided to DIY.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

With apologies to Bill Shakespeare (and Queen Gertrude): you “doth protest too much, methinks.”

 

In any case, let’s clarify your continuing misstatement. O did not “refuse” to let you cancel. In fact, they made a reasonable exception to their own T&Cs by waiving any penalties and offering you a 100% FCC for your fare paid (in addition to $ refunds for port fees/taxes and any optional purchases made) should YOU decide to cancel. And FWIW, I explained how best to request a future cruise replacement transfer.

Whatever you choose to do, your only real loss might be $ associated with travel arrangements you decided to DIY.

 

To be completely fair, O did refuse to cancel at this point till Monday (my TA spoke to them yesterday).

And again, to be completely fair:

"c. due to the change in final destination Oceania is supposed to arrange for transportation from the new port to the originally scheduled port." as someone quoted the ticket contract.

 

Personally, we have no problem with FCC since we have few future cruises booked already. But again, to be completely fair, I would expect them to offer a refund since this is a significant change to the original cruise (less ports, 3 extra sea days etc) This is NOT the same cruise that people booked.

[Jancruz]

22 hours ago, Carraig said:

My TA was on hold yesterday morning for three hours with O waiting for an agent.   I'd guess there was a lot of feedback given yesterday.

There are many numbers to call why would anyone wait three hours?? There is also email..

Jancruz1

[1985rz1]

12 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

To be completely fair, O did refuse to cancel at this point till Monday (my TA spoke to them yesterday).

And again, to be completely fair:

"c. due to the change in final destination Oceania is supposed to arrange for transportation from the new port to the originally scheduled port." as someone quoted the ticket contract.

 

Personally, we have no problem with FCC since we have few future cruises booked already. But again, to be completely fair, I would expect them to offer a refund since this is a significant change to the original cruise (less ports, 3 extra sea days etc) This is NOT the same cruise that people booked.

Aren't you jumping the gun a bit?  At this point, O has not finalized whether there will or will not be a major change.  If there isn't, there would be no reason to cancel penalty free;  if there is,  they may let you cancel penalty free with an FCC. You will find out Monday.

 

Again, if the change is not yet finalized, there is no reason for O to arrange for transfers, until a change is confirmed.

 

Yes, this is all a pain, but as long the pandemic keeps changing the landscape, everyone is sailing in unknown waters (so to speak), and the cruise lines are trying to make the best decisions they can.  We may not agree with the decisions, but we don't know all the complex factors they are dealing with.

 

 

[ak1004]

7 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

Aren't you jumping the gun a bit?  At this point, O has not finalized whether there will or will not be a major change.  If there isn't, there would be no reason to cancel penalty free;  if there is,  they may let you cancel penalty free with an FCC. You will find out Monday.

 

Again, if the change is not yet finalized, there is no reason for O to arrange for transfers, until a change is confirmed.

 

Yes, this is all a pain, but as long the pandemic keeps changing the landscape, everyone is sailing in unknown waters (so to speak), and the cruise lines are trying to make the best decisions they can.  We may not agree with the decisions, but we don't know all the complex factors they are dealing with.

 

 

 

I agree, but we are discussing the original letter about the change where they did offer FCC and not refund, and did not offer any help to arrange the transfers (except for $300 to cover any air changes, which is far from the real cost of extra flight from Peru to Santiago).

 

But yes, lets wait and give them a chance to make things right.

[watercruise]

8 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I agree, but we are discussing the original letter about the change where they did offer FCC and not refund, and did not offer any help to arrange the transfers (except for $300 to cover any air changes, which is far from the real cost of extra flight from Peru to Santiago).

 

But yes, lets wait and give them a chance to make things right.

Assuming we go back to the original or even a revised itinerary- does anyone know the Covid protocols going from one country to another?  Do we need to be tested before entering each country? 
thanks…

[Flatbush Flyer]

58 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

To be completely fair, O did refuse to cancel at this point till Monday (my TA spoke to them yesterday).

And again, to be completely fair:

"c. due to the change in final destination Oceania is supposed to arrange for transportation from the new port to the originally scheduled port." as someone quoted the ticket contract.

 

Personally, we have no problem with FCC since we have few future cruises booked already. But again, to be completely fair, I would expect them to offer a refund since this is a significant change to the original cruise (less ports, 3 extra sea days etc) This is NOT the same cruise that people booked.

Reread my post: O did not refuse OP’s right to cancel whenever HE wants (subject to the T&C/Ticket Contract policies including the generous exception already made by O - i.e., no penalties and full FCC offer).

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Reread my post: O did not refuse OP’s right to cancel whenever HE wants (subject to the T&C/Ticket Contract policies including the generous exception already made by O - i.e., no penalties and full FCC offer).

Just to clarify, "O" did absolutely refuse my request to cancel with the response that there could be no cancellation without having the cruise agency on the phone.  The particular cruise agency is non-responsive to both e-mails and phone calls.  So in effect, if the cruise agency refuses to respond by Tuesday (which was the latest deadline imposed by O to cancel ---for a FCC) then we would not be able to cancel.   There is the further issue that O's original e-mail (which may or may not have been rescinded by the next O e-mail sent the following day) only offered folks who were allowed to cancel (we were not allowed to cancel) a FCC (date limited) and refund of taxes and other fees such as pre paid excursions.   At this time we do not consider the FCC offer to be a fair offer (for several reasons).  In fairness to "O" their rep said that the issue of a full refund could be considered....but only if the cruise agency (who continues to be non-responsive) were to push the issue with O management.

 

We view all of this as a challenge.  Perhaps "O" will have some good news next week.  By the way, we had a good laugh this morning when we received a routine e-mail from O telling us it was almost time to do our online "check-in" for our cruise.

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

Just to clarify, "O" did absolutely refuse my request to cancel with the response that there could be no cancellation without having the cruise agency on the phone.  The particular cruise agency is non-responsive to both e-mails and phone calls.  So in effect, if the cruise agency refuses to respond by Tuesday (which was the latest deadline imposed by O to cancel ---for a FCC) then we would not be able to cancel.   There is the further issue that O's original e-mail (which may or may not have been rescinded by the next O e-mail sent the following day) only offered folks who were allowed to cancel (we were not allowed to cancel) a FCC (date limited) and refund of taxes and other fees such as pre paid excursions.   At this time we do not consider the FCC offer to be a fair offer (for several reasons).  In fairness to "O" their rep said that the issue of a full refund could be considered....but only if the cruise agency (who continues to be non-responsive) were to push the issue with O management.

 

We view all of this as a challenge.  Perhaps "O" will have some good news next week.  By the way, we had a good laugh this morning when we received a routine e-mail from O telling us it was almost time to do our online "check-in" for our cruise.

 

Hank

Again, O did not refuse YOUR request to cancel (if YOU actually made THAT specific request along the lines of: “I understand/accept the consequences and I am asking to cancel this cruise”). In fact, because you have a contract with a TA, the only thing O can initially do is to direct you to the Agency with whom you made that contract since it is that TA who needs to complete that transaction.

That your once trusted TA now sucks is neither your fault nor O’s fault. Of course, though it is probably far too long from an earlier more opportune time, once you realized that TA turned sour, you could’ve requested (with supportive evidence) that O take back control of the booking and that (like so many other things) would’ve been considered on a case-by-case basis. Alternatively, an O manager (e.g,, the regional sales rep) possibly could make a convincing argument to that TA if appropriate given a particular situation.

 

When all this is over (and I trust that it will all REASONABLY work out for you), you may want to do something about that TA starting with determining whether it is a “seller of travel” registered in California and/or Florida. If so, you have a recourse for complaint with at least one Secretary of State. Even if you are not a resident, you can still file a complaint.

Too bad you are not a Californian where there exists a fund contributed to by registered TAs to compensate screwed passengers. But, for that, you do need to be a California resident.

 

FWIW:

I just got an O email this morning (via my O preferred partner TA) that our May-July 2022 double segment (CPT-LIS-NYC) piece of the upcoming ATW cruise has had its final payment due date changed from this December to next March. 

As you might expect, mixed emotions here with that news! (though it was expected).

 

 However, all of our pre-arranged DIY travel is extremely flexible with United Airlines FFCs or rebooking w/o change fees available if needed  and all hotel/land tour arrangement fully refundable (with most not even requiring a deposit). And, as March through May unfolds, I will assemble several “plan Bs”) for cruise transfers if needed.

 

Best of luck next week. 

[Hlitner]

35 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Again, O did not refuse YOUR request to cancel (if YOU actually made THAT specific request along the lines of: “I understand/accept the consequences and I am asking to cancel this cruise”). In fact, because you have a contract with a TA, the only thing O can initially do is to direct you to the Agency with whom you made that contract since it is that TA who needs to complete that transaction.

That your once trusted TA now sucks is neither your fault nor O’s fault. Of course, though it is probably far too long from an earlier more opportune time, once you realized that TA turned sour, you could’ve requested (with supportive evidence) that O take back control of the booking and that (like so many other things) would’ve been considered on a case-by-case basis. Alternatively, an O manager (e.g,, the regional sales rep) possibly could make a convincing argument to that TA if appropriate given a particular situation.

 

When all this is over (and I trust that it will all REASONABLY work out for you), you may want to do something about that TA starting with determining whether it is a “seller of travel” registered in California and/or Florida. If so, you have a recourse for complaint with at least one Secretary of State. Even if you are not a resident, you can still file a complaint.

Too bad you are not a Californian where there exists a fund contributed to by registered TAs to compensate screwed passengers. But, for that, you do need to be a California resident.

 

FWIW:

I just got an O email this morning (via my O preferred partner TA) that our May-July 2022 double segment (CPT-LIS-NYC) piece of the upcoming ATW cruise has had its final payment due date changed from this December to next March. 

As you might expect, mixed emotions here with that news! (though it was expected).

 

 However, all of our pre-arranged DIY travel is extremely flexible with United Airlines FFCs or rebooking w/o change fees available if needed  and all hotel/land tour arrangement fully refundable (with most not even requiring a deposit). And, as March through May unfolds, I will assemble several “plan Bs”) for cruise transfers if needed.

 

Best of luck next week. 

Since you are a nice person I will tell you that the cruise agency in question is not a seller in either Florida or the Republic of California but is based in a New England State.   And yes, we did most certainly make the request to cancel (DW made me do it 🙂 but that was conditioned on "O" refunding all of our payments for this cruise (Initial Deposit, Final Payment, and over $1500 for excursions).  But apparently O's policy does not permit us to cancel our own cruise :(.  And even if we had been willing to accept Os cancelation terms (FCC) we could not even take advantage of that offer which may have been withdrawn the following day by O's subsequent e-mail (that is questionable).  That being said, O's policy regarding Cruise/Travel agencies is close to the industry standard and I do understand their position.  But other cruise lines have procedures to override their policy when a cruise/travel agent is non-responsive.  In fact, O and other cruise lines would do well to refuse anymore bookings through this particular agency.  This has been a very reputable agency (and I have sent them quite a few customers) and they have now made a true enemy (that would be me) who will do everything possible to make their lives worse.  I suspect they are a victim of the COVID slow down but that does not excuse their current behavior.  However in keeping with the spirit and rules of CC we will deal with that agency through other legal and social means.  

 

Our immediate issue is "O" and a still booked cruise (less then 4 weeks away) to places unknown.  But why should any cruise line bother to tell fully booked and paid customers where they are supposed to go?  DW actually raised an interesting issue that even if we did end up on this particular cruise she has absolutely no faith that "O" would not change the entire itinerary (and possibly whatever end port they choose) during the cruise.  I understand you like this line and think they walk on water (an appropriate pun) but our experience is that, so far, the worst company (out of the 17 cruise lines we have used).  Perhaps they can convince me I have them all wrong but at the moment they would rank number 17.   I have been advised that I must now spend more time dealing with this issue since letters and e-mails must be written and every action documented :(.  Not my idea of fun.

 

I do hope all goes well with your ATW segment.  Like you, we hedge our bets by making sure most of our independent arrangements can be cancelled with little or no penalty.  In the case of our O cruise we were able to take advantage of the good graces of Delta to recover our miles.  But if "O" again changes their mind and we would be forced to buy air (because apparently we cannot cancel the cruise unless we take legal action) then the cost of that air will have increased (substantially) and our great deal on Delta One is gone and lost forever (tears are flowing).

 

Hank

[ak1004]

Our TA spoke to O yesterday and asked to cancel and transfer part of the payment to another cruise in December. The rep went to a supervisor and was told that no changes are possible at this point because of a pending update on Monday. An hour later, an updated email came from O advising us that they might be able to keep the original itinerary, but will know more on Monday.

 

My guess is that their refusal to cancel is related to the general uncertainty and possibility to keep the original itinerary (in which case you won't be able to cancel without penalty) and less related to the fact that the request came from the passenger and not the TA.

 

As many mentioned, this is very challenging during Covid, so comparing O with other lines that were used before the pandemic is not really fair.

 

I sailed on O only once, and I definitely cannot be considered a cheerleader, but I'm trying to be fair and give them the benefit of the doubt. Those are very challenging times, and we don't know how other lines would handle situation like this. In fact, I do know that many Crystal customers were very upset with Crystal for various reasons, and Crystal is considered more luxury than O (although personally I would put them in the same league).  

[edgee]

17 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Our TA spoke to O yesterday and asked to cancel and transfer part of the payment to another cruise in December. The rep went to a supervisor and was told that no changes are possible at this point because of a pending update on Monday. An hour later, an updated email came from O advising us that they might be able to keep the original itinerary, but will know more on Monday.

 

My guess is that their refusal to cancel is related to the general uncertainty and possibility to keep the original itinerary (in which case you won't be able to cancel without penalty) and less related to the fact that the request came from the passenger and not the TA.

 

As many mentioned, this is very challenging during Covid, so comparing O with other lines that were used before the pandemic is not really fair.

 

I sailed on O only once, and I definitely cannot be considered a cheerleader, but I'm trying to be fair and give them the benefit of the doubt. Those are very challenging times, and we don't know how other lines would handle situation like this. In fact, I do know that many Crystal customers were very upset with Crystal for various reasons, and Crystal is considered more luxury than O (although personally I would put them in the same league).  

Crystal is in a different league...not necessarily a better league...has its problems big time with older ships and financial issues but their product is different than O in that it is all inclusive and focuses on entertainment and enrichment to a level O chooses not to even come close to matching. O focuses more on the food and gorgeous ships IMHO. 

 

[Jockocruiser]

37 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 But apparently O's policy does not permit us to cancel our own cruise :(.  And even if we had been willing to accept Os cancelation terms (FCC) we could not even take advantage of that offer which may have been withdrawn the following day by O's subsequent e-mail (that is questionable).  That being said, O's policy regarding Cruise/Travel agencies is close to the industry standard and I do understand their position. 

Hank:

You are asking reasonable questions. If you asked via the booking agency and they called O res all they would do is relay your questions wouldn't they?  And then relay back to you.  How would that add communication value to the issue? Remember the game of "Telephone"?

 

Flatbush's advocate on behalf of an agency relationship is commendable. But as a practical matter how would that be beneficial considering the current uncertainly of your booking? That O changed the destination city without a detailed explanation...and then changed the story hours later should be very disconcerting.  

 

Were it me...I would have called O res and identified as the booking agent/agency. (OK, I'm covering my head and ducking now.). But...it is now Friday night, O is closed on the weekend, and they have advised it might be different come Monday.  Guess you just have to wait until Monday.

[Hlitner]

57 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

When it come to California’s (and I assume Florida as well) requirement for registration as a Seller of Travel, it has nothing to do with where the Travel Agency is domiciled. Rather it is a requirement for anyone who markets, advertises and or sells travel within the State (and to Californians among others).

You mentioned New England. I know of a popular cruise agency in New Hampshire (for example). A quick search of California’s DOJ website Section for Sellers of Travel (spelling the agency name as registered) at

https://sotas.doj.ca.gov/sellerSearch.action

displays that agency’s registration number and legal contact info.

The next time you call that TA, try to get to someone important and politely ask them for their California Seller of Travel registration number and name/contact info for who at that TA is designated to receive legal correspondences (of course you may already have gotten that info on the web). If they refuse, then politely tell them that you have what you think is the correct info and you just want to verify it. That conversation may work wonders.

At the same time, do file a complaint in California (and Florida). In addition, since your primary argument for the CA DoJ is that the TA’s non-responsiveness is costing you money related to missed deadlines (and you have tangible proof), contact Elliott.org (as I described in an earlier post). If Chris Elliott agrees with your concern, the last thing that TA will want is a nasty mention and poor outcome reported in Chris’ nationally syndicated travel column. Use this resource!!! (there’s no charge for this but it is a non-profit agency and does accept donations).

I would go out on a limb and say that the "popular" cruise agency you referenced is one and the same.  Your idea of calling them to ask any question would be futile since they no longer answer their phones or respond to e-mails (at least not in the last few days).  Having spent a near lifetime working in government I have some knowledge of government agencies and how to create problems for some licensees.   But that is not always a good approach and we shall sleep on some options.  As to Chris Elliott, I am a huge fan and have often referred others to his wonderful organization.  I am carefully documenting everything and Mr. Elliott will possibly be an avenue although I am still patiently awaiting "O"s update (promised by Nov 8).  We both know that folks can overreact and act to hastily, and we have yet to write-off "O" and their customer service/guest relations team.  They have asked for a few days to work things out and we do think the least we (or anyone can do) is give them that time.  For us. we are already royally screwed because we cancelled our air from Lima (because "O" told us we were not going to Lima and we needed to deal with our own air).  But if "O" decides to restore the original itinerary then we will look at possible solutions (although it might be too late to find any reasonable solution).  If they stick with Santiago we are still not sure how we will handle that situation.  And if they decide to go somewhere else we will have to look at the options.  But DW continues to voice her concern of "how can we ever trust these folks (O) again?  I have known this women for decades and never heard her voice that kind of comment.  FDR should be concerned.  Do not under estimate the power of ladies :).  Just ask the losing gubernatorial candidate in Virginia!

 

Hank 

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I would go out on a limb and say that the "popular" cruise agency you referenced is one and the same.  Your idea of calling them to ask any question would be futile since they no longer answer their phones or respond to e-mails (at least not in the last few days).  Having spent a near lifetime working in government I have some knowledge of government agencies and how to create problems for some licensees.   But that is not always a good approach and we shall sleep on some options.  As to Chris Elliott, I am a huge fan and have often referred others to his wonderful organization.  I am carefully documenting everything and Mr. Elliott will possibly be an avenue although I am still patiently awaiting "O"s update (promised by Nov 8).  We both know that folks can overreact and act to hastily, and we have yet to write-off "O" and their customer service/guest relations team.  They have asked for a few days to work things out and we do think the least we (or anyone can do) is give them that time.  For us. we are already royally screwed because we cancelled our air from Lima (because "O" told us we were not going to Lima and we needed to deal with our own air).  But if "O" decides to restore the original itinerary then we will look at possible solutions (although it might be too late to find any reasonable solution).  If they stick with Santiago we are still not sure how we will handle that situation.  And if they decide to go somewhere else we will have to look at the options.  But DW continues to voice her concern of "how can we ever trust these folks (O) again?  I have known this women for decades and never heard her voice that kind of comment.  FDR should be concerned.  Do not under estimate the power of ladies :).  Just ask the losing gubernatorial candidate in Virginia!

 

Hank 

Based on your post, I am reminded of how often some of these agencies are in seemingly far flung locations. Oddly enough, one of the top sellers of Oceania and still an efficacious voice for passengers (despite any Covid impact) is located in New Mexico. Interesting!

 

Elliott is terrific. Once I got some contact info from them for the CFO OF a travel insurer who was dragging its heels on a large 5 figure claim related to a cancelled cruise for emergency surgery  . When I explained to the CFO where I got her phone number, the check was in my mailbox before the end of the week.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer

[Hlitner]

12 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Based on your post, I am reminded of how often some of these agencies are in seemingly far flung locations. Oddly enough, one of the top sellers of Oceania and still an efficacious voice for passengers (despite any Covid impact) is located in New Mexico. Interesting!

We are going to need to reevaluate our opinion of various agencies given the changes caused by COVID.   We could probably use that New Mexico agency  (even if they are in a land locked State) around now, but we do have broad enough shoulders to handle the current issue (win or lose).  My mind is on football (both college and pro) and will let all this slide until Monday.  If we ultimately do get this O cruise cancelled then we have another cruise (Princess) that we could snag at the last minute for similar dates.  If O comes through and we do manage to get on the Marina we will still manage to post some fair comments about the ship and cuisine.  To be very honest we were looking forward to comparing O cuisine to what we recently experienced on Seabourn.  I guess some of us never learn and do not want to be far from cruise ships :).

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We are going to need to reevaluate our opinion of various agencies given the changes caused by COVID.   We could probably use that New Mexico agency  (even if they are in a land locked State) around now, but we do have broad enough shoulders to handle the current issue (win or lose).  My mind is on football (both college and pro) and will let all this slide until Monday.  If we ultimately do get this O cruise cancelled then we have another cruise (Princess) that we could snag at the last minute for similar dates.  I guess some of us never learn and do not want to be far from cruise ships :).

 

Hank

You’re still watching college football after The (My) Buckeyes beat Penn State last weekend?

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You’re still watching college football after The (My) Buckeyes beat Penn State last weekend?

ARGH!  That is a low blow :(.  I am hoping that PSU's coach decides to head out to the Republic of CA to spin his "magic" elsewhere.  And we will allow no discussion of the "wonderful" Eagles.

 

 

[PaulMCO]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Geez, according to some "cheerleaders" on this thread I am the only person on earth who has some issues with "O."  So surely you are some kind of faux person :(,  Here is the truth of the matter.  When I got through to "O" yesterday (which actually did not take too long) the folks admitted their phones are ringing off the hook and I was thanked for not sounding angry and taking it out on the "O" folks who are paid to deal with irate customers.  This is not a time to be "angry" or irrational as those of us who have been traveling throughout the pandemic understand we need to be somewhat flexible and roll with the waves.....but to a point.  Many others booked on the Marina have much more difficult situations then me since they had planned private tours to Machu Pichu and the potential itinerary changes have created an untenable problem for them.  I agree with the other poster that "O" quickly realized that changing the debarkation/embarkation port by 1500 miles was not workable for many of the cruisers.  "O" can be faulted for their constantly changing advice and their apparent lack of understanding of the impact of their itinerary change.  The truth is that if "O" had simply given a decent cancelation option we think many of those booked would have cancelled.

 

So what to do?  Fortunately in my situation we can wait until next week and give O a chance to try and work out a better solution.  If not, at the worst we will lose a chunk of money (we are talking 5 figures) but will survive :).  Of course it will leave a sour taste in our mouth about "O" which will impact future travel/cruise plans.  I feel bad because of talking DW into trying "O" and telling her about some of the bloggers who have long sang the praises of "O."  But I do think that some of the cheerleaders are living in the past.  Nothing is the same post COVID and "O" (and their NCLH owners) find themselves in a very difficult situation.  They are bleeding cash and their plans to stem the financial drain  are  being threatened by constant problems (around the world) with various governments.  They also need to deal with the reluctance of many cruisers to take a chance and book.  We are risk takers and have been on two fabulous cruises (with Seabourn) since August.  We gambled on "O" and at this time it seems like we may have erred by trusting this company.   But we will wait and see (we have no choice since O refused to let us cancel).

 

 

No you are not alone.  I for one won't cruise them again, our next is our last on O only because of FCC we must burn or lose.

 

You have every reason to beef.  O should have cancelled the season as Peru and Ecuador (and even Chile) were very iffy.  Other cruise lines like Seabourn have.  This season cruises in SA are just too soon as they are just coming out of pandemic.  While opening a country up for tourism is one thing where a passenger flies to the country and stays in that country -- cruising between multiple countries presents issues that some countries like Peru and Ecuador did not want to risk.  Likely anything that O does come up with will require additional testing of everyone prior to clearance.

 

That said you did have a final payment date and you should have be aware of the closed situation of all the countries and taking the risk of making that payment when things are closed.  Cruising in SA is not like cruising the Greek Isles.

 

We had the same issues and frustrations for our upcoming Antarctica expedition.  Still fighting to get refunds for changed flights as our cruise company changed the point of departure, as has Silversea, National Geo, Crystal and others. 

 

So point is Cruising is a risk -- either accept the risk or don't cruise until 2023 or who knows when.