NFT..what are they and why is X selling them?

[Luvcrusn]

I got an email and saw X's announcement about this sale and another email yesterday that the sale had started. Can anyone please explain what X's selling clearly to someone who understands that NFT stands for non fungible token, but not the meaning those words? 

[Mark_T]

Short version is that it is a digital asset which incorporates proof of authenticity and originality.

 

There are a lot of other features that make it interesting to creators, but as a purchaser it is a bit like buying an original painting along with proof of its authenticity, or a numbered print for example.

 

You can sell it on and the new owner will similarly be assured of its authenticity, you cannot simply copy it and sell one, only the original has the proof of its origin.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Mark_T

[Luvcrusn]

Does the purchaser receive a physical piece of art or is it a virtual piece? 

[Jim_Iain]

NFT stands for non-fungible token. It's generally built using the same kind of programming as cryptocurrency,  It's generally built using the same kind of programming as cryptocurrency,

 

And as such, NFTs are ideal for storing real-world value. On the other hand, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are fungible – meaning that if you were to swap 1 BTC for another 1 BTC, nothing much changes. That is to say, you still have 1 BTC worth of value in your wallet.

But, in the case of NFTs, no tokens have a relationship with any other circulating digital assets, which is why they are described as non-fungible.

 

Celebrity is auctioning off these "Unique" Pieces of Art for no other reason but to raise some money and bring attention to their new ship.    Part of the ownership of "The Piece of Art" is you get a "FREE" cabin in a specific class and will be present for the Christening of the Beyond.

 

Now that we fully understand thls (sic) lets all get out and bid.   LOL

[Mark_T]

Just now, Luvcrusn said:

Does the purchaser receive a physical piece of art or is it a virtual piece? 

The NFT is a virtual item only, but from what I've seen there are some real benefits being offered to the owners of the NFT at a specific date and time.

[Jim_Iain]

2 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

Does the purchaser receive a physical piece of art or is it a virtual piece? 

Virtually and a free physical cabin on the ship for if i recall 4 days and a seat at the Christening of the Beyond.

[Mark_T]

1 minute ago, Jim_Iain said:

Virtually and a free physical cabin on the ship for if i recall 4 days and a seat at the Christening of the Beyond.

The bit to remember is that it isn't purchasing that gets you the benefits, it is owning it at the designated date and time.

[Luvcrusn]

I guess I'm being "old fashioned" and a bit dense but it seems to me that it's a bit like auctioning off snake oil with the promise that the highest bidder gets to overpay for a 4 day cruise. Is that far from the mark here? I'm not trying to be snarky here, but am confused as to why a company that sells cruise vacations is doing this. Aren't there better ways to make money for the company than selling this sort of thing?  This seems really off-brand and questionable to me.

[cruisefam38]

27 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

Aren't there better ways to make money for the company than selling this sort of thing? 

Well, Kickstarter is so passe', so  ......   2020.

 

"This seems really off-brand and questionable to me. "

I am not going to take part in this particular scheme.  Instead, I will wait and put my imaginary wealth to use in purchasing NFTs  of a human scented celebrity candle.

[Mark_T]

31 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

I guess I'm being "old fashioned" and a bit dense but it seems to me that it's a bit like auctioning off snake oil with the promise that the highest bidder gets to overpay for a 4 day cruise. Is that far from the mark here? I'm not trying to be snarky here, but am confused as to why a company that sells cruise vacations is doing this. Aren't there better ways to make money for the company than selling this sort of thing?  This seems really off-brand and questionable to me.

I don't think it is any worse than the various 'art' auctions that they have been doing for years, I wouldn't rely on those or this one for 'investment' purposes, just buy if you like it, if not then walk on by... either physically or virtually 🙂

[Jim_Iain]

9 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

I don't think it is any worse than the various 'art' auctions that they have been doing for years, I wouldn't rely on those or this one for 'investment' purposes, just buy if you like it, if not then walk on by... either physically or virtually 🙂

But for this one you get a free overpriced cabin and a seat at the Christening.  While at the auction you get a seat at the auction and a glass of sub-par champagne.

[Luvcrusn]

16 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

But for this one you get a free overpriced cabin and a seat at the Christening.  While at the auction you get a seat at the auction and a glass of sub-par champagne.

I think that you can guess I'll take a pass on the NFT's and I definitely take a pass on the art auctions onboard!

[UnorigionalName]

2 hours ago, Luvcrusn said:

I got an email and saw X's announcement about this sale and another email yesterday that the sale had started. Can anyone please explain what X's selling clearly to someone who understands that NFT stands for non fungible token, but not the meaning those words? 

 

This NFT like many others seems to be basically you own a token(a number) that points to a piece of data on a large open collective digital ledger.  The piece of data in this case is a hyperlink to a website containing a hyperlink to the image along with a few other bits of information.

 

 

some q/a:

Q: do you have ownership of the copyright of the image in the link

A: no.  You can sign a sperate off-blockchain contract to obtain the copyright, but there is no legal mechanism for the copyright to follow the token.  Each subsequent purchaser would have to sign an off-ledger contract to obtain the copyright.

 

Q: is there anything preventing the owner of the image from making more nft's of the same work

A: no

 

Q: is there any guarantee the hyperlink will still show the same data any point in the future

A: no

 

Q: Is there any proof that any given NFT is actually made by the owner of the copyright of the image in the link

A: not inherently 

 

 

Here's a youtube video of some of the legal aspects:

 

[Luvcrusn]

That's all as clear as mud. I can't believe X is putting their good name and reputation behind this. Thanks for the video.  It confirms what I thought I understood. I just couldn't believe it.  It seems like there is a likelihood of litigation here down the road and that X is making itself vulnerable.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Luvcrusn

[cruisefam38]

Two Links .  The first provides  some thoughts regarding whether or not to enter into NFT transactions

https://coingape.com/blog/5-critical-points-to-consider-when-you-assess-the-value-of-nft/

 

This second link is an opinion piece, generally supportive of art NFTs. 

https://www.thefineryreport.com/opinionarticles/2021/4/30/the-rise-of-nfts-signals-that-its-a-critical-time-to-discuss-how-we-see-value-in-art?rq=nfts

 

[cruisefam38]

Another link, rather illuminating.

https://explodingtopics.com/blog/nft-statistics

 

The "Conclusions" at the end of this article are telling. 

The author's conclusion is consistent with the corporate decisions made by Celebrity regarding age demographics.

 

The future of art is digital/virtual. Accessing and paying for those artistic experiences will likely be digital, futuristic techonology.  The younger generations will be the ones engaged in these artistic/business experiences.

 

As MarkT said above, "just buy if you like it, if not then walk on by... either physically or virtually"

Edited June 3, 2022 by cruisefam38

[schittenden]

This is a very long video. It starts with the birth of crypto, all the problems with crypto, and then gets into NFTs. If anyone is interested in these highly speculative “assets”, I recommend viewing this. I’d come to the same conclusions before seeing the video, but this does an excellent job of laying it out. It’s worth the 2+ hours. 
 

 

[schittenden]

And here is a very short meme that also explains NFTs pretty well. 
 

[Spif Barwunkel]

I am too old and too dumb to want to try and understand Cryptocurrency/Bitcoin/NFT's. However, from my discussions with several folks - many years my junior - whose association with those entities has given them very comfortable lives, it is apparent that this fairly new economic endeavor is gaining ground and acceptance around the world, grudgingly so in some cases. It is legal and very profitable despite the fact that naysayers and opponents try to paint a picture of nefarious dealings and attempts to swindle innocent people. Not so.

 

I have no problem with Celebrity entering the Crypto world and extending an invitation to join them. I see it as an attempt to gain more following from Gen X and Millennials, just as the introduction of Edge Class ships is intended to do. Hopefully, Celebrity has done its homework and knows how to honestly provide and execute this type of transaction. For those folks who decide that this new method works for them, perhaps that marriage will be profitable for everyone involved.

 

As for me, I'll stick with the good old-fashioned greenback dollar.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Spif Barwunkel

[The_Big_M]

3 of Celebrity's 5 copies have already been sold. The seller was happy to take the opening bids of about $4k. And of course those buyers have immediately listed to re-sell them, hoping for the next 'fool' to pay 3-5 times what they paid.

 

The best way to look at this is people paying high dollars to be part of the naming ceremony/sailing for 2 nights. Whereas holding a link to a poorly drawn digital image with flaws that had better equivalents made in 1990 is not going to hold any long-term value.

 

As for Celebrity getting into this, it was a bit of a curveball, but is like cruisefam said, that they're happy to market to various niches and 'cryptoboys' is one of them.

Edited June 3, 2022 by The_Big_M

[schittenden]

2 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

I am too old and too dumb to want to try and understand Cryptocurrency/Bitcoin/NFT's. However, from my discussions with several folks - many years my junior - whose association with those entities has given them very comfortable lives, it is apparent that this fairly new economic endeavor is gaining ground and acceptance around the world, grudgingly so in some cases. It is legal and very profitable despite the fact that naysayers and opponents try to paint a picture of nefarious dealings and attempts to swindle innocent people. Not so.

 

I have no problem with Celebrity entering the Crypto world and extending an invitation to join them. I see it as an attempt to gain more following from Gen X and Millennials, just as the introduction of Edge Class ships is intended to do. Hopefully, Celebrity has done its homework and knows how to honestly provide and execute this type of transaction. For those folks who decide that this new method works for them, perhaps that marriage will be profitable for everyone involved.

 

As for me, I'll stick with the good old-fashioned greenback dollar.

 

There is plenty of swindling going on.  As a general rule, if something is worth $50,000 today, $20,000 tomorrow, and $50,000 the day after that, it's actual worth is approximately zero.  Your only hope is to get out before someone else realizes it.

[mnocket]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:04 AM, Luvcrusn said:

I guess I'm being "old fashioned" and a bit dense but it seems to me that it's a bit like auctioning off snake oil with the promise that the highest bidder gets to overpay for a 4 day cruise. Is that far from the mark here? I'm not trying to be snarky here, but am confused as to why a company that sells cruise vacations is doing this. Aren't there better ways to make money for the company than selling this sort of thing?  This seems really off-brand and questionable to me.

I'm with you.  People try to justify them by saying it's like owning an original piece of art.  Nonsense!  An original piece of physical art is distinct from any copies that are made from it.  There is the original and there are copies (e.g. prints, posters, etc.).  They are not identical.  An NFT on the other hand is indistinguishable from copies - being digital it can be reproduced with 100% fidelity. The point of an NFT is to certify the one and only original digital file (i.e. the first instance).  To me this is a distinction without a difference.  Since this original file and its duplicates are identical, who cares which is the original.  They are identical!  

[Mark_T]

You'd need to talk to the artists who do seem to be in favor of using NFT's like this.

Personally I have more empathy with using the NFT approach in ways that deliver utility, rather than simply recording provenance, but art is where they started, and where most of the traction is right now.

 

I've been surprised many times over the years by what people will call 'art' and the price they are willing to pay, but as ever, it is only worth what someone else will give you for it, but the value you get from it is entirely separate and entirely in the mind of the buyer.

 

So I hope those who do decide to buy are happy with their purchases, they may end up owning them for a long time... 🙂

Edited June 3, 2022 by Mark_T

[cruisefam38]

2 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

'cryptoboys'

Is that like a cyberpunk, or a steampunk, or a code monkey?

Do I have to understand the terms I'm throwing around, and what those people do, to be one?

Edited June 3, 2022 by cruisefam38

[cruisefam38]

You folks are all making some interesting points.  I've learned a thing or two today. 

I'm glad you started this thread, luvcrusn.  Your posts are most often informative and interesting.