Most controversial cruise opinion??

[juju2454]

7 hours ago, DrSea said:

  

I would argue that any vacations are not good investments. With that said, I will admit that I have spent silly amounts of money to book the Haven.

 

 

We could afford Haven, but we like to spend money elsewhere to each their own right?
 

 

I would also agree with the previous statements that there are many entitled people on the ship. Most NCL pax are American and Americans in general are entitled and can be rude.

 

That can be said about any nationality about another actually 


I don't let other people's attitudes affect mine (within reason of course...If someone is swinging at me because they had a bad day, then that would obviously affect my attitude). 

We generally do the same, but comments made loud enough are hard to miss.

7 hours ago, DrSea said:

 

The Haven experience is more than just the facilities and it's not for everyone.

 

See that says to me at least *elite* of course it is for everyone, but some think they are better than other because they are in it, that is the point.

I don't think everyone has to try something to know if they don't like it or not. But it sounds like you need more data points before you come to an accurate conclusion since you are only basing it on some rude people's behavior and taking a tour of part of the Haven during an event. Just saying...

I have more data than I care to have about the opinions of haven people, it isn't just a few rude people, it has been most haven writers( not just in this site)  and the way they seems to think that Haven means you are more worldly, educated, or richer.  We all spend out money the way we wish, why tell others who don't spend $5000 + pp for a room they are lesser people, or even imply it?  It is the same sometimes for people who say they are better for flying first class, it's your money but I can get o the same destination in coach  for much less. and that is simply fact.   So enjoy haven, but believe me I have had more than enough "data" to the point of who thinks haven makes them better than others on the same ship.  We all go to the same destinations and we all get there at the same time of day, and we all have to be on board at the same time.  Do you get to an excursion first , sure but I still get there.  Do you get a front seat at a show? yep, but I still get to see that show.  Do you get off the ship before me? yep but I still get off.  funny thing happened on our 2018 TA cruise, we were inside room and in New Orleans the disembarking was a mess,  we got the best porter who took our luggage, asked his female friend to open a second door ( and she did) and we walked past all the first to leave the ship people, got a cab in minutes and were in our room within 15 minutes.  I heard later we walked by all the upper payed rooms via a chat I was in they all waited some for 3 hours. So it all can work backwards sometimes . Enjoy your cruise however you go. 🙂

 

[juju2454]

On 8/2/2022 at 6:04 PM, complawyer said:

mrstocko: while i appreciate your opinion, it seems just a wee bit inconsistent. you claim you like to be pampered, in that case you should love being in the haven complex. depending on the ship, you have your own pool area, bar and restaurant. the concierge is there to assist in whatever  you need, and if there is something special you want, ask  your butler. as soon as we meet him. i let him know that 1st 

thing every morning to please bring a carafe of coffee, a pot of hot water, small pitcher of milk, croissants, muffin's and sweet rolls.  they are there like clockwork when we get up. haven seems like  the top of pampering (at least on the ncl ships) .  while im a little like you, not overly fond of buffets and crowds (plus forget about trying to get a seat)  sometimes the variety of stations and choices are enough to go up and experience the buffet. while of course you need to get the food yourself, you will find the people behind the counters, and the wait staff are all very accomodating and helpful .

 

 

just try and avoid the guy at t he front with the annoying "happy,happy, washy,washy" UGH!

Sad that they have to remind people to wash their hands in anyway they can. No?  😉 

[pcakes122]

43 minutes ago, juju2454 said:

I know exactly how it works we have a dear friend that play at a casino, bets high,  some times wins sometimes loses, gets comped all over the place.  But a frequent flyer.  No not all lose thousands to get comped, but the comp is to get your to play more, that is fact.  I am sure he has over he years lost thousands and won thousands,  I have seen him play on the craps table He lay out $50 and $100 chips like they are $5 and $10's.   Good on him!  He love the game,  he get lots of perks for it. 

You are right, this is exactly how it works. And the key to his great comps is that he is betting high (that's what drives his theoretical loss - or "theo" - up which is what comps for based on.)

 

I haven't paid for the Haven in years (other than port taxes/admin fees) regardless of what I have won or lost.  I used to get "Club Balcony" comps when I played slots at $2-$4 a spin.  When I started playing $10-$20 a spin I started getting offered the Haven.  It's not how much you win or lose, it's how much you RISK (because remember the odds are ALWAYS in the casino's favor, so the more you risk the more they have a chance to make on you.)

 

Ultimately, I never lose more money than the Haven cabin would have cost me to book, so it's a win-win for me. I cruise in luxury and I have fun playing all week (which I would do anyway!)

[DrSea]

1 hour ago, juju2454 said:

We generally do the same, but comments made loud enough are hard to miss.

I have more data than I care to have about the opinions of haven people, it isn't just a few rude people, it has been most haven writers( not just in this site)  and the way they seems to think that Haven means you are more worldly, educated, or richer.  We all spend out money the way we wish, why tell others who don't spend $5000 + pp for a room they are lesser people, or even imply it?  It is the same sometimes for people who say they are better for flying first class, it's your money but I can get o the same destination in coach  for much less. and that is simply fact.   So enjoy haven, but believe me I have had more than enough "data" to the point of who thinks haven makes them better than others on the same ship.  We all go to the same destinations and we all get there at the same time of day, and we all have to be on board at the same time.  Do you get to an excursion first , sure but I still get there.  Do you get a front seat at a show? yep, but I still get to see that show.  Do you get off the ship before me? yep but I still get off.  funny thing happened on our 2018 TA cruise, we were inside room and in New Orleans the disembarking was a mess,  we got the best porter who took our luggage, asked his female friend to open a second door ( and she did) and we walked past all the first to leave the ship people, got a cab in minutes and were in our room within 15 minutes.  I heard later we walked by all the upper payed rooms via a chat I was in they all waited some for 3 hours. So it all can work backwards sometimes . Enjoy your cruise however you go. 🙂

 

First and foremost, you are assuming many things about me. Me saying that the Haven isn't for everyone has nothing to do with being "elite." As I have stated multiple times, the Haven isn't for me either. Please actually read my posts instead of assuming. If anything, we are on the same team here. Geez, inferiority complex much?

 

I am glad that you can afford the Haven. But many ppl can't, and they give many ancillary reasons why they wouldn't like the Haven even though they are bidding for it. Fact: these 2 actions are diametrically opposed. The cognitive dissonance here is very obvious and they have very little insight on this, sadly. That's ok. It's human nature etc.

 

I disagree and strongly believe that Americans of all ages, including boomers, are extremely entitled. This is from caring for people when they are at their worst and their true selves.

 

In terms of entitled or rude people who think they are better than others bc of some made up thing in their head, I just don't let them bother me. All these people around me think they are God's gift to the earth bc they went to an ivory tower some time in their training (I did too), won some national award (I did too), and made some discovery (same here). But whatever. I don't let others make me feel bad and ignore others behaving badly. Your giving a random stranger too much power if their poor attitude elicits a reaction from you to the point that you are avoiding an area of the ship or an experience. If I worry too much or pay any attention to people who are poorly behaved, I would spend my entire vacation worrying about others and not enjoying myself. Up to you if you want to avoid those people. Just realize that it is objectively an immature coping strategy (defined per psychiatry....not me...don't shoot the messenger). I don't want to spend my life trying to avoid arrogant jerks all day long or else I wouldn't be able to work at any hospital system ever. It's just easier to ignore, reframe my perspective, live life, and laugh (look it up, humor is a mature coping style). 

 

You do you man. 

 

I hate being put in a position to defend the Haven when it doesn't even appeal to me. lol. The irony. 

[DrSea]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

You are right, this is exactly how it works. And the key to his great comps is that he is betting high (that's what drives his theoretical loss - or "theo" - up which is what comps for based on.)

 

I haven't paid for the Haven in years (other than port taxes/admin fees) regardless of what I have won or lost.  I used to get "Club Balcony" comps when I played slots at $2-$4 a spin.  When I started playing $10-$20 a spin I started getting offered the Haven.  It's not how much you win or lose, it's how much you RISK (because remember the odds are ALWAYS in the casino's favor, so the more you risk the more they have a chance to make on you.)

 

Ultimately, I never lose more money than the Haven cabin would have cost me to book, so it's a win-win for me. I cruise in luxury and I have fun playing all week (which I would do anyway!)

You sir have cojones of steel. I wish I could gamble like you and not neurotically go insane from all the lost money. 

[midgetcoach]

8 hours ago, DrSea said:

You sir have cojones of steel. I wish I could gamble like you and not neurotically go insane from all the lost money.

It's not having balls of steel.....but sometimes that can help..LOL

Casino games are just that, games, adult games that have a negative expectation meaning you are not expected to win. It doesn't mean you can't win its just harder too. 

Everyone has luck and can win on any day with just luck but if you want to play to win you need two things. First you must fully understand every detail of the game you are playing. Second is how to gambler on that particular game.  Now you can turn it into at least a 50/50 game.

 

[tetleytea]

Here's what I did in Carson City:   the hotel gave me $5 in nickels, to go and play their nickel slots.  So i played the nickel Draw Poker machines instead--at least with poker you can control your destiny somewhat.  Soon I turned that $5 into $20.  It was clear the machines were paying out more than 100%.   So I should go and play their 25-cent Draw Poker now, right?  After all, I can make 5 times as much.   NO!!  That's exactly how they make their money back.  They let you win small at first to suck you in.   Instead, I went to the hotel gift shop and bought some stuff with nickels.  Sent gifts to all my Christian friends and told them I bought it with gambling winnings.

[Travelling2Some]

Here's more evidence that it is high risk that triggers comp offers:  My daughter and her husband took a cruise for their honeymoon and have been inundated with comp offers ever since.  They only took the one cruise.  They are experienced gamblers and won enough to cover the cost of their honeymoon and then some.  I always wondered why they would get lots of comp offers when their only cruise actually cost the cruise line money.  Mystery solved! 

[ChiefMateJRK]

2 hours ago, midgetcoach said:

Now you can turn it into at least a 50/50 game.

The casinos must LOVE you!!!  😍

[midgetcoach]

1 hour ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

The casinos must LOVE you!!!  😍

Well I don't know if they love us but we are definitely on their list..LOL

We get offers almost daily.

[MrsTocko]

12 hours ago, DrSea said:

In terms of entitled or rude people who think they are better than others bc of some made up thing in their head, I just don't let them bother me. All these people around me think they are God's gift to the earth bc they went to an ivory tower some time in their training (I did too), won some national award (I did too), and made some discovery (same here). But whatever. I don't let others make me feel bad and ignore others behaving badly. Your giving a random stranger too much power if their poor attitude elicits a reaction from you to the point that you are avoiding an area of the ship or an experience. If I worry too much or pay any attention to people who are poorly behaved, I would spend my entire vacation worrying about others and not enjoying myself. Up to you if you want to avoid those people. Just realize that it is objectively an immature coping strategy (defined per psychiatry....not me...don't shoot the messenger). I don't want to spend my life trying to avoid arrogant jerks all day long or else I wouldn't be able to work at any hospital system ever. It's just easier to ignore, reframe my perspective, live life, and laugh (look it up, humor is a mature coping style). 

I think this is a matter of personal perspective from my stand point. 

 

Above you said: "I don't want to spend my life trying to avoid arrogant jerks all day long"

 

Why would I put myself in a situation where I have to make to do that on VACATION?  That is my time to relax and recharge.  to enjoy my surroundings, and the food and laugh.  I have NEVER been one who liked being the center of attention.  Too much bullying as a kid directed towards me. Yes, it shaped me.  It shapes everyone. That is how we learn and grow. I can't ignore it, not in me to ignore it.  and I left it effect me as little as possible, but that takes effort.  So I distance myself from people that bully, and that I have to make an effort to be around.  That is why I apologize to everyone in the customer service industry when I have witnessed this appalling behavior.

 

I always remember that the only thing I can control is MY reaction to whatever is happening and the situation around me.  I am mature enough and have grown enough to know what my triggers are and how to cope and deal with them. I am also mature enough and grown enough to know better than to put myself in a situation I am not able to handle.  I deal with it enough in the real world, I don't need to deal with it on vacation. Personally, I think that is more mature coping strategy. (I actually had a lot of good counseling as a kid at an age that the lessons stick, and I am a quick study.  I was taught how to figure out what I am reacting to and WHY...Knowing that...I can adjust my response to a more affective one, rather than strictly emotion.

 

Again, I don't believe that everyone in the Haven are entitled jerks, nor that they are confined to the Haven.  I do believe that the entitled jerks are LOUDER than the ones that are just there to enjoy themselves and have a good time, and are OFTEN staying in the Haven.
 

See something, say something, do something - makes sense.  By ignoring it, we are letting it fester and grow. I dont feel that society can continue to say "just ignore it, not my problem."

Edited August 4, 2022 by MrsTocko

[wil e coyote]

And it would seem we have found the most controversial cruise opinion - at least by counting posts containing the word "Haven"! 🤣

[Dave994]

Tipping should be optional and cruise lines should charge more to guests and pay their employees better.  feel free to discuss  😃

[cruiseny4life]

54 minutes ago, Dave994 said:

Tipping should be optional and cruise lines should charge more to guests and pay their employees better.  feel free to discuss  😃

@wil e coyote I think this one may take over as the leader in about five hours. 

 

I'll be the first to bite - I agree 100% Dave994. I'd much prefer pay a higher rate at the front, knowing the staff is being paid a fair wage. I'll go on the record as saying I know the cruise lines (likely all of them) screw over their employees at every opportunity they get unless it's frankie boy del rio. 

[wil e coyote]

9 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

@wil e coyote I think this one may take over as the leader in about five hours. 

 

I'll be the first to bite - I agree 100% Dave994. I'd much prefer pay a higher rate at the front, knowing the staff is being paid a fair wage. I'll go on the record as saying I know the cruise lines (likely all of them) screw over their employees at every opportunity they get unless it's frankie boy del rio. 

@cruiseny4life, you may well be right! Let the debate begin!

[Dave994]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

@wil e coyote I think this one may take over as the leader in about five hours. 

 

I'll be the first to bite - I agree 100% Dave994. I'd much prefer pay a higher rate at the front, knowing the staff is being paid a fair wage. I'll go on the record as saying I know the cruise lines (likely all of them) screw over their employees at every opportunity they get unless it's frankie boy del rio. 

 

So refreshing to find someone who agrees with me on this. Most people balk at this suggestion and then complain about how poorly the staff are treated. 

 

 

[wil e coyote]

30 minutes ago, Dave994 said:

 

So refreshing to find someone who agrees with me on this. Most people balk at this suggestion and then complain about how poorly the staff are treated. 

 

 

I also agree - if I somehow had confidence that higher fares were actually resulting in better pay for the staff. The work ethic of the cruise staff is amazing - it puts me to shame, and people tell me I am a hard worker. They earn every dime they are getting paid and then some.

[pcakes122]

16 hours ago, DrSea said:

You sir have cojones of steel. I wish I could gamble like you and not neurotically go insane from all the lost money. 

You just have to think of it as the cost of vacation!  For example the current price of a Haven Penthouse (for two) for a 5-day Bermuda cruise on the Prima in the spring is $10.5K.  If NCL comps me that cruise,  I would pay $200 in admin fees and about $500 in port taxes for two people. As long as I don't lose more than $9.8K (and I'll make sure I don't), I'm ahead in terms of my overall vacation cost.👍🏻

[Travelicious]

8 hours ago, tetleytea said:

Instead, I went to the hotel gift shop and bought some stuff with nickels.  Sent gifts to all my Christian friends and told them I bought it with gambling winnings.

My parents started going to the casino later in life.  They went enough that they won lots of items like caps, shirts, camp chairs, etc., all with the casino emblem.  Mom sewed patches over the emblems so everyone wouldn't know they were gambling.  🤣

[juju2454]

2 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

You just have to think of it as the cost of vacation!  For example the current price of a Haven Penthouse (for two) for a 5-day Bermuda cruise on the Prima in the spring is $10.5K.  If NCL comps me that cruise,  I would pay $200 in admin fees and about $500 in port taxes for two people. As long as I don't lose more than $9.8K (and I'll make sure I don't), I'm ahead in terms of my overall vacation cost.👍🏻

I completely envy some  gamblers,  I watch my friend in awe.  He doesn't think twice betting $$$  power to him, and you.   This friend is one of the nicest people, I know.   As long as you aren't hurting anyone and aren't hurting yourself, have fun!   and Congrats on the comps! 🙂 

[ChiefMateJRK]

Wow.  That was one for the ages! 💩

[MrsTocko]

4 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

@wil e coyote I think this one may take over as the leader in about five hours. 

 

I'll be the first to bite - I agree 100% Dave994. I'd much prefer pay a higher rate at the front, knowing the staff is being paid a fair wage. I'll go on the record as saying I know the cruise lines (likely all of them) screw over their employees at every opportunity they get unless it's frankie boy del rio. 

My PCC automatically adds the DSC to my booking.  So I am paying it upfront.  Well worth not thinking about it later.  I save all year long for the "spending" dollars using the 52 week $ challenge.  That is what I use for porter tips, or souvenirs in port and I stick aside some for tipping my steward at the beginning, and then extra at the end.  I know that they don't make what they should, and were out of cruise work for 2 years. I give them what I can with gratitude and appreciation.

And honestly if they "raised" the prices, but "removed" the DSC, would people care if it was embedded in the initial cost?  I know that I wouldn't.  do like other lines where "crew appreciation" is included.  The perception that you are getting more for your buck is a powerful marketing tool, and has kept me loyal to NCL (yes, i do exhaustive comparison between the lines and NCL usually comes out ahead or close to it - so loyalty points then come into play)

My vacation budget isn't always large, so I need to make the most of it, always.

Edited August 5, 2022 by MrsTocko

[juju2454]

10 hours ago, midgetcoach said:

It's not having balls of steel.....but sometimes that can help..LOL

Casino games are just that, games, adult games that have a negative expectation meaning you are not expected to win. It doesn't mean you can't win its just harder too. 

Everyone has luck and can win on any day with just luck but if you want to play to win you need two things. First you must fully understand every detail of the game you are playing. Second is how to gambler on that particular game.  Now you can turn it into at least a 50/50 game.

 

Indeed, know when to hold up and know when to fold up. LOL  😉when we play slots we know we can lose just as fast as we spin the wheel,  We also know if it is paying out that when it begins to give bigger amounts to pull the slip and walk away.  Do we lose some? Sure. but more times we win more than we invested, and have fun doing it 😉

 

 

[Northern wanderlust]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:17 AM, The Shrike said:

We don't cruise to be around 3000 other people, that's a necessary evil that goes along with it..  We cruise for the experience, the scenery, the destinations, the dining, the service, etc. 

 

Full disclosure, we have never sailed in the Haven.  Actually, our very first NCL cruise is coming up in a couple of months. 

 

DH and I are late 30's and this will be his second cruise.  All of my previous cruises, save one on RCCL which I didn't particularly care for, and the one previous cruie DH was on were on HAL.  I only sailed on HAL because my mother works for a travel agent and that was the line that gave her good agent rates and she liked the fact that the older demographic made her feel young.  So, that's just what I'm used to.

 

I may be old and crotchety but I must say, I agree with what The Shrike said.  We chose NCL because it had the best itinerary that we could find for our cruise to the Med this fall.  We do not care about water slides or go cart tracks or ice skating rinks or really entertainment much at all.  If we had the kids with us or a different itinerary it might be different but it's just us and this is a very port intensive itinerary.  

 

I am planning to pack my suit but I would actually not be surprised if we never went in the pool at all.  I think ultimately I view cruising as a fun means of transportation to the destination rather than the destination itself.  We fall in the wine tasting/history and culture lecture category more than the pool party/belly flop competition category I guess.  I am SO looking forward to time on my balcony with a glass of wine and my book.  

 

I cannot wrap my head around the Haven.  I understand the concept in a way, a more luxurious experience, I guess I understand that though the Haven itself doesn't particularly appeal to our personaliites.  But if I'm paying $5,000 a person for a week long cruise then I will be on Viking or Silversea.  It sure as heck wouldn't be NCL.  Is it so you can have the luxurious experience of the ultra luxury lines combined with all the bells and whistles maybe?  If that's it then I am very happy for everyone who wants that experience that there is an option for them.

 

I actually don't mind eating dinner with other people.  Some nights I prefer to be alone but other nights I enjoy it.  On our last cruise we dined with a lovely couple from the UK.  I very much enjoyed our meal with them.  But, it is of course, hit or miss.

[tetleytea]

2 hours ago, Northern wanderlust said:

 

  But if I'm paying $5,000 a person for a week long cruise then I will be on Viking or Silversea.  It sure as heck wouldn't be NCL. 

 

Interesting--I've been eyeballing that exact tradeoff in my spending decisions.   Do I choose the Haven, or Viking River Cruise?  I honestly don't know.  While I have not always regarded NCL as a tip-top-of-the-line cruise line, I have, however, been impressed with their Owners Suites if I am sailing with a big party.   If I sail with Viking, what am I getting for that premium fare?  Really?