NCL first to remove ALL vaccine requirements.....

[Mary229]

56 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I  do agree with this statement. Sicker people need more care.

 

Since comorbidity has always been (and continues to be) the number one predictor of needing hospitalization from covid, do you think cruise lines should refuse everyone with a comorbidity?  

 

It was discussed very early on when age was considered the main determining factor of severity of symptoms.   Many felt that it would impact the cruise lines’ bottom line.  My opinion is very unpopular  so I won’t express it here. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Mary229

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, albingirl said:

Well, since the US government has been requiring many workers to be vaccinated///

 

False

 

5 hours ago, albingirl said:

This just allows more infection and serious disruptions, so I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why the cruise industry chooses to go down that path. 

 

To save themselves from certain financial ruin comes to mind. This is business.

 

6 hours ago, albingirl said:

 I'm not willing to pay big bucks to miss ports and spend time in quarantine because others chose not to get the shots.

 

The only thing we know for absolute certainty about Covid is that those with comorbidity are at significantly higher risk of becoming ill (whether vaccinated or not). What you are implying is that cruise lines should prohibit anyone with a comorbidity from boarding so that you don't miss ports. I'm sure that won't sit well with the over 60 crowd 😉 

 

[0106]

2 hours ago, BigMattT said:

WH briefing Nov 2022 that cites several studies: 

Correction- Nov 22,2021

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, rubytue said:

That was struck down by the supreme court months ago. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21a244_hgci.pdf

That one proposed action was stuck down (the one for all companies with over 100 employees).  Other ones including the ones for members of the military, were not and remain in force.

[rubytue]

4 minutes ago, ldtr said:

That one proposed action was stuck down (the one for all companies with over 100 employees).  Other ones including the ones for members of the military, were not and remain in force.

Please provide further information as to which “many workers” were then referred to above then. PP did not say “soldiers” or “war fighters”, but “many workers.” It is not a mandate on the civilian side of the government nor for the general workforce. 

[Guest ldtr]

17 minutes ago, rubytue said:

Please provide further information as to which “many workers” were then referred to above then. PP did not say “soldiers” or “war fighters”, but “many workers.” It is not a mandate on the civilian side of the government nor for the general workforce. 

Lets see

 

Government mandate for vaccination for medical workers involved with medicare and medicaid services

 

I do believe that such medical personnel are workers and there are many of them

 

DOD also has civilian workers and contractors and many of them are covered by mandates

 

They are also workers and there are many of them

 

I can go down program by program.  Bottom line is while the one you identified was overturned there are other programs mandating vaccination for groups of workers that have not been.

[BigMattT]

10 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I  do agree with this statement. Sicker people need more care.

 

Since comorbidity has always been (and continues to be) the number one predictor of needing hospitalization from covid, do you think cruise lines should refuse everyone with a comorbidity?  

 

 

I appreciate what you're saying here, @BermudaBound2014 -- and I'm very impressed with this thread staying on topic and helpful for discussing cruise travel on HAL.

 

 

 

Can you link to something supporting the statement that comorbidities are a stronger predictor than unvaccinated status for hospitalization or death?  I just browsed a small sample UK study and the February 4 "SARS-CoV-2 Infection and Hospitalization Among Adults Aged ≥18 Years, by Vaccination Status" report, which I'm still understanding as suggesting otherwise.

 

Re: refusing everyone with comorbidities:  since the number and severity of comorbidities is the bigger predictor or hospitalization among vaccinated breakthrough cases... I would hope people with multiple and severe comorbidities would evaluated their fitness to travel rigorously.  I'm not sure there is a comparable degree of risk to calculate for unvaccinated status.

 

 

Or looking at this from another perspective...

 

If HAL has a ship of passengers where EVERYONE has a comorbidity and IS vaccinated... and NCL has a ship of passengers where EVERYONE has a comorbidity but is UN-vaccinated... which ship, according to statistics, will have more patients requiring medical care facilities onboard or hospitalization?

 

And which ship do I want to be on?

[silversneakers]

16 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

This is very true.  But I'm more concerned about serious illness onboard, that might disrupt the cruise.  Which applies to @NavyCruiser's comment, too.  Personally, I'm over worrying about COVID.  I've had four jabs.  DH has had four jabs AND COVID.  It was like a runny nose for him.  But we'd like to avoid changes in itinerary for medical evacuations of seriously ill people.  

 

To each his own on this one.  I hope some cruise lines continue to require vaccinations.

I think it's more of an issue of being placed in quarantine while on the cruise. Even if the symptoms are mild, you are still placed in quarantine,  As far as changes in itinerary for medivac and seriously ill people, I don't get your self-centered viewpoint.

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, silversneakers said:

I think it's more of an issue of being placed in quarantine while on the cruise. Even if the symptoms are mild, you are still placed in quarantine,  As far as changes in itinerary for medivac and seriously ill people, I don't get your self-centered viewpoint.

I do, I see people on cruise ships who clearly never asked their physician’s guidance.   I was once on a cruise with someone who had left the hospital for open heart surgery the day before the cruise then flew to Greece boarded the ship and after we were 5 hours underway we turned around to medivac.  We missed the port.   Who is the self centered one, me or the dummy who boarded the ship in poor health.  BTW, I know the facts in this story to be true as this person was related to one of the people I was sailing with.  It is the same for Covid, if you are susceptible to severe symptoms please stay home

[BermudaBound2014]

4 hours ago, BigMattT said:

Can you link to something supporting the statement that comorbidities are a stronger predictor than unvaccinated status for hospitalization or death? 

 

I did provide very relevant supporting links but both of our posts have been removed due to breaking the covid discussion rules :(.  It's unfortunate because you seem reasonable and I believe that you may have really appreciated learning what is actually happening in hospitals.

 

So back to the thread topic.....NCL has removed the vaccine requirement. 

 

You are probably aware, but NCL cruises also owns Oceana and Regent. Some want to continue to point out that NCL and HAL are very different because NCL is a family line. However; I would wager that Oceana has a clientele much closer in demographics to HAL. I would also wager that NCL has done their research and by allowing unlimited unvaccinated onboard Oceana they must be of the belief that the unvaccinated do not present a significant threat.

 

I do hope that niche markets evolve for people that have a strong propensity to only sail with others who are vaccinated. I understand that it's difficult for many to change deeply rooted belief systems about vaccination effectiveness. However; NCL has spoken thru it's actions and have determined that vaccination is no longer a significant variable for boarding. Time will tell whether or not HAL follows.

[Mary229]

I think NCLH likely looked at the costs of providing Covid guarantees and decided enough.   People pulling out at the last minute for Covid tests which had a strong likelihood of being poorly administered and wrong is not a good thing for a cruise line.  They can’t sell that cabin.   If you are sick before the cruise - get your own insurance to pay
 

I think the cruise lines are ready for the norovirus model, if you are sick stay in your cabin.  Being a nursemaid and an insurance provider is not the business they are in and they found out it is fraught with fraud, errors and excessive expenses 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mary229

[BermudaBound2014]

38 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think NCLH likely looked at the costs of providing Covid guarantees and decided enough.   People pulling out at the last minute for Covid tests which had a strong likelihood of being poorly administered and wrong is not a good thing for a cruise line.  They can’t sell that cabin.   If you are sick before the cruise - get your own insurance to pay
 

I think the cruise lines are ready for the norovirus model, if you are sick stay in your cabin.  Being a nursemaid and an insurance provider is not the business they are in and they found out it is fraught with fraud, errors and excessive expenses 

 

To support this claim....

 

NCL released 2Q22 this morning.  They missed all targets. Added an additional 500 MIllion in Debt and don't expect to be profitable in third quarter. Sound familiar? Pretty much the same as CCL.

 

The cruise industry can't turn itself around until ships start sailing at capacity. NCL sailed at 65% in Q2 and HOPE to get to 80% in Q3. Not much different than CCL.

 

It's brutal times for the industry we all love. 

[iancal]

Numbers trump emotion and wishful thinking all day long when it comes to covid stats and  financial results.

 

I have no doubt that HAL and other cruise lines have a laser focus on both since they are interrelated and impact the all important quarterly results.

Edited August 9, 2022 by iancal

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

Numbers trump emotion and wishful thinking all day long when it comes to covid stats and  financial results.

 

I have no doubt that HAL and other cruise lines have a laser focus on both since they are interrelated and impact the all important quarterly results.

 

Exactly. Cruise lines know exactly what is happening with covid stats and their financials. As a result,  the current trend is to remove Covid protocols. 

[iancal]

I believe that covid restrictions, whether to loosen or tighten, will depend on inerary country requirements and on the incidence of covid on board and on land.  And this can and no doubt will change over time.   The notion that covid has passed us by may be a somewhat optimistic view.  It is one reason why we currently have no plans to cruise.

 

The reality is that covid restrictions can be re-imposed as easily and as quickly as they can be removed.  Either by the cruise line or because of port stop requirements.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by iancal

[iancal]

I do not understand the big issue about testing.  We self tested prior to leaving home and flying .

 

We self tested the next day prior to attending a pharmacy five minute from our hotel for the required antigen test.  The test took all of 20 minutes from the swab to the written report.  $40.  Had we been close to a Walmart or a Costco it would have been $20.

 

We could have booked at least five other pharmacy appts within a 15 minute radius of our hotel.   We were considered a Greece trip.  In less than five minutes google produced a list of many labs in the Athens area, with prices, and noting which ones spoke and reported out in english.

 

I believe it was a minor inconvenience and a minor cost to avoid potentially unknowingly spreading the virus.

[albingirl]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I don't think you understand the stock market. CCL has lost 60% of it's value since resumption. There isn't much lower to go before restructuring (yet today CCL is down about  another 10%). 

 

You can stomp your feet all you want but changes are coming. With the exception of very few countries,  the entire world has removed covid protocols. Like it not, cruises are next. Sadly, assuming you actually believe the fear you keep projecting (and unless a niche market evolves), the only logical thing for you to do is to stop cruising. 

This thread has become tedious.  The so-called "experts" pontificating about "stomping your feet" and so on are very tiring.

[iancal]

Twelve-sixteen  months ago there were posters on this site were were predicting, with some supposed authority and knowledge,  an end to covid and covid restrictions within 30 or 60 days.

Edited August 9, 2022 by iancal

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

I believe that covid restrictions, whether to loosen or tighten, will depend on inerary country requirements and on the incidence of covid on board and on land.  And this can and no doubt will change over time.   The notion that covid has passed us by may be a somewhat optimistic view.  It is one reason why we currently have no plans to cruise.

 

The reality is that covid restrictions can be re-imposed as easily and as quickly as they can be removed.  Either by the cruise line or because of port stop requirements.

 

 

Yes, and it seems some passengers get pissed off when protocols are tightened while others get pissed off when protocols are loosened.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, albingirl said:

This thread has become tedious.  The so-called "experts" pontificating about "stomping your feet" and so on are very tiring.

 

1) . You said you blocked me. If I'm blocked there is no way for you to quote me, let alone find my posts tedious lol.  This truly made me smile.

 

2). You can stomp your feet too regarding wanting everyone vaxed, but right now the trend is heading in the opposite direction. You have made your intentions clear; you won't cruise with the unvaccinated. Seems silly to me, but the good news is that there are a lot of other choices for your vacation. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[KroozNut]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:37 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

Nothing about current data supports this fear mongering. If you have such data, link it; otherwise this response is emotionally irrational.

 

I would take it a step further, and say it is irresponsible.

[KroozNut]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:20 PM, albingirl said:

Right, but with his advanced age, he might have been deathly ill if not for the vaccinations.  No need to make light of this fact.

 

And also the paxlovid he received early on, as well as other therapeutics..

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

And also the paxlovid he received early on, as well as other therapeutics..

 

Yep, and the fact that the current virus just isn't as deadly. All these factors contributed. To suggest he is healthy because he is vaccinated is terribly naïve' and uninformed of current trends in data. 

[graciekelli]

My husband and I would love to try HAL.  We were frequent cruisers pre-COVID and HAL was going to be our next ship to try.  We loved Azamara and thought that HAL offered similar level experience ++++ more lively entertainment and all the wonderful things we have heard.  We are patiently waiting....we are not Vaxxed and do not intend to ever be vaxxed. Because of our love of cruising, we will book our first NCL.  We are Diamond + on RCL and I am receiving conflicting reports of possibly lifting the vax requirment so our fingers are crossed and I will continue to check the boards here on HAL to get our first HAL cruise booked.  I am so excited to see everything starting to move into the "back to normal" way of life.

[BermudaBound2014]

31 minutes ago, graciekelli said:

My husband and I would love to try HAL.  We were frequent cruisers pre-COVID and HAL was going to be our next ship to try.  We loved Azamara and thought that HAL offered similar level experience ++++ more lively entertainment and all the wonderful things we have heard.  We are patiently waiting....we are not Vaxxed and do not intend to ever be vaxxed. Because of our love of cruising, we will book our first NCL.  We are Diamond + on RCL and I am receiving conflicting reports of possibly lifting the vax requirment so our fingers are crossed and I will continue to check the boards here on HAL to get our first HAL cruise booked.  I am so excited to see everything starting to move into the "back to normal" way of life.

 

NCL also owns Oceana and they allow 100% unvaccinated right now also. Oceana would be closer to Azamara than HAL. 

 

RCL has stated there is a big announcement about testing/vaccination coming on the 14th, so if you can wait to book until then that would be good. I suspect RCL and Celebrity will announce reduced vaccination requirements on this date. 

 

CCL has been a bit quiet on the issue (CCL owns HAL). Princess and HAL are sister companies and Princess relaxed their vaccine requirements 2 weeks ago Welcoming 10% unvaccinated and changing the policies to make it much more user friendly for unvaccinated guests to get the exemption to cruise. 

 

Covid protocols are relaxing across the entire globe.