Angry about O accepting unvaxed passengers?

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, PhD-iva said:

I’m also wondering what type of travel might be better going forward. Probably group travel via land would be similar to the petrie dish that is cruising…..

Any suggestions, besides completely individual solo travel….l?

One difference is that during group travel on land you are mostly mixing with other members of your tour group (maybe 40-50 people) where as on a cruise ship during a week long cruise one pretty much comes in contact with most of the other cruisers on that ship at one time or another (several hundred) odds of an infected person in several hundred quite a bit higher than  40-50.

 

The tours I have signed up for all are still requiring participants to be fully vaccinated.

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, Nol2929 said:

Question...In our Province over 83% of the population is fully vaccinated and it is the vaccinated that are now spreading the virus,  so do I need to be overly worried if someone is vaccinated or not??

 

We are triple vaccinated but from what Im now reading  is that my Pfizer vaccinations were designed for the Delta variation of Covid and have very little effect on Omicron prevention.  So again being vaccinated or not may have little to do with me getting Covid, however being vaccinated appears to greatly reduce the severity of the symptoms. 

 

Possibly CDC and the cruise lines are saying that this is now going to spread with or without vaccinations? 

 

Fortunately, at least in our area, the symptoms for the vast majority of Omicron cases is very mild cold like symptoms.

 

 

Actually the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (as well as J&J and AZ) were all designed for the original strain.  About 95% at preventing infection.  Down to about 85% against Delta.  About 40% in preventing infection with the current strains.  Still about 80-85% at preventing serious disease even with the current strains.  So while being vaccinated does not prevent any one individual from getting infected, it will reduce spread since it will protect about 40% of potential cases from infection.  Most important is that it will reduce number of serious cases by around 80%.

 

New vaccine for Omicron type strains expected this fall.

[Nol2929]

1 minute ago, ldtr said:

Actually the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (as well as J&J and AZ) were all designed for the original strain.  About 95% at preventing infection.  Down to about 85% against Delta.  About 40% in preventing infection with the current strains.  Still about 80-85% at preventing serious disease even with the current strains.  So while being vaccinated does not prevent any one individual from getting infected, it will reduce spread since it will protect about 40% of potential cases from infection.  Most important is that it will reduce number of serious cases by around 80%.

 

New vaccine for Omicron type strains expected this fall.

Yes thank you I mentioned Delta but you are correct the vaccine was designed for the original strain.  Also agree the vaccine has done a great job if not amazing job in reducing serious cases.  I know of several close friends who are very compromised and have easily survived covid which I believe is due to their vaccinations.  However with every new version of Omicron the protection is less and the spread increasing.   As mentioned there is a new Omicron vaccine in the works but they better hurry as the new versions of Omicron may make this vaccine obsolete before it hits our arms.

[Nuka]

1 hour ago, Nol2929 said:

Question...In our Province over 83% of the population is fully vaccinated and it is the vaccinated that are now spreading the virus,  so do I need to be overly worried if someone is vaccinated or not??

 

We are triple vaccinated but from what Im now reading  is that my Pfizer vaccinations were designed for the Delta variation of Covid and have very little effect on Omicron prevention.  So again being vaccinated or not may have little to do with me getting Covid, however being vaccinated appears to greatly reduce the severity of the symptoms. 

 

Possibly CDC and the cruise lines are saying that this is now going to spread with or without vaccinations? 

 

Fortunately, at least in our area, the symptoms for the vast majority of Omicron cases is very mild cold like symptoms.

 

 

I think there are so many unknowns that guidance is difficult with different risk tolerance and circumstances.   I cancelled my Jan 23 booking. I didn't have FCCs and onerous penalties so it was an easier decision for me. Found a Silversea cruise with biz air that was 4 days longer and with biz air I purchased on my own it only ended up costing $500 CAD more. For me, the edicts and changes were unsettling.  

[Robjame]

14 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Actually, in the ATW roll call, there were quite a few post regarding the growing infection rate amongst the full timers.

…and these are all fully vaccinated.

 

‘Current vaccines do not protect you from Omicron infection. Rather they protect you from serious consequences of Omicron infection.

 

As a fully vaccinated (4 doses) of vaccine I accept the possibility (risk) of catching Covid. Data supports that it will most likely be asymptomatic or mild considering my risk factors.

[Redtravel]

When I am home, I go out. I am cautious of where I go. If I go to a store or restaurant that looks crowded, I leave.  Being on a cruise ship is very different than being on land.. If I am on a ship, I can’t do that.  You are captive. As much as you may try to avoid crowds, at times it is impossible.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Robjame said:

…As a fully vaccinated (4 doses) of vaccine I accept the possibility (risk) of catching Covid. Data supports that it will most likely be asymptomatic or mild considering my risk factors.

You may want to reread the current news:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2795139

[Ride-The-Waves]

25 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

When I am home, I go out. I am cautious of where I go. If I go to a store or restaurant that looks crowded, I leave.  Being on a cruise ship is very different than being on land.. If I am on a ship, I can’t do that.  You are captive. As much as you may try to avoid crowds, at times it is impossible.  

One can avoid crowds on ships and be selective where you go and eat.  Just back from a European cruise and we stayed away from the MDR, ate in specialty restaurants, ate in the buffet, did not attend events in the theater, etc.  Did join in a couple of ship and private shore excursions.  Stayed safe as far as we know (fully vaxxed and boosted).  

 

At home one cannot control who is in a store or restaurant with you.  Here in Florida COVID officially doesn't;t exists and few, if any, wear masks.  "Social" distancing is about the only thing that works - along with masks.  

 

I expect this will become the new norm.  Cruise lines are still hurting, still operating with reduced crews and reduced amenities.  It will be years before they are back to any sense of pre-pandemic normal.  In the meantime they will raise prices while encouraging more to cruise.  Tough.  

[hawkesbaynz]

I think that NCL may shoot themselves in the foot with this new plan to allow the unvaccinated on the ships. You do not need to be a medical professional (I am) to know that a PCR test 3 days prior to the cruise will not provide protection against contracting Covid 19 on the ships. We all know that the level of Covid has been higher on the ships than has been advertised.

 

I am amazed that the NCL Medical Director did not make a big thing of this. I would have resigned in disgust.  I know that the other cruise lines have had issues with recruiting and retaining medical and nursing staff. I doubt NCL has not had a similar issue. Imagine the potential pressure on these staff!

 

Fact is that if you are vaccinated, even if you are medically compromised, you have an excellent chance of surviving Covid with minimal symptoms. However if you are not vaccinated you can get seriously ill and end up on a ventilator, long term CPAP or in the morgue etc.

 

Imagine the issues the onboard medical staff will have. Will small caribbean islands wish to take them? Will Oceania ships be banned from porting.

 

And more importantly for me (as I am sick of trying to convince these ignoramouses to get jabbed and and care little for them), will it effect my well earned and expensive holiday!

[ToxM]

I wish I had the chance to se the look on the face of the chap who was in charge of covid testing on my Marina cruise in April when he heard about this. 

 

I think the virus has mutated sufficiently so vaccine escape is widespread, but the fact remains that those unvaccinated face more of a risk of serious illness from the virus. 

 

I wonder how individual ports will act when unvaccinated covid positive individuals are deposited at disembarkation time in their country? 

 

I also wonder if ships have to give details of positive numbers on ships prior to ports and if ports and local health agencies will allow ships to dock with unvaccinated positive cases.

 

If people want to travel and they are unvaccinated that’s fine, but the increased risk of serious illness should be pause for thought for them. As CC Chris just proved, a busted lip and some plaster just cost them 600 bucks… 

 

I wonder how cruise insurance will deal with this … I would expect prices for cruise insurance if you are unvaccinated would be higher than those who are fully vaccinated. 

 

 

[Robjame]

16 minutes ago, ToxM said:

k with unvaccinated positive cases.

… or vaccinated positive cases.

 

You do bring up an interesting question - how will the ship deal with positive cases?

I suspect that isolation in one’s cabin for 5 days or until you test negative plus the opportunity to purchase Paxlovid or other therapeutic. If you require hospitalization or ventilation then you will be off-loaded at the next port. In either case the costs will be the responsibility of the individual as it would be in any illness.

[hawkesbaynz]

My understanding is that Paxlovid has contra-indications with many drugs. Likely folk who are unwell with Covid have more co-morbidities thus more drugs to potentially interact with.

 

Why would someone who is unvaccinated buy a relatively under researched drug (in comparison with the vaccine) when they do not believe in vaccines🤔 

[shepherd really]

Just now, hawkesbaynz said:

My understanding is that Paxlovid has contra-indications with many drugs. Likely folk who are unwell with Covid have more co-morbidities thus more drugs to potentially interact with.

 

Why would someone who is unvaccinated buy a relatively under researched drug (in comparison with the vaccine) when they do not believe in vaccines🤔 

remember ivermectin? same

 

Funny true story, I needed ivermectin to deworm my sheep and a donkey last year and had a hard time finding it.  I was also a bit embarrassed to be seen purchasing it in case someone got the wrong idea.

[ToxM]

32 minutes ago, Robjame said:

… or vaccinated positive cases.

 

You do bring up an interesting question - how will the ship deal with positive cases?

I suspect that isolation in one’s cabin for 5 days or until you test negative plus the opportunity to purchase Paxlovid or other therapeutic. If you require hospitalization or ventilation then you will be off-loaded at the next port. In either case the costs will be the responsibility of the individual as it would be in any illness.

Will a local health authority want to take a gravely ill unvaccinated person? 

 

Will a port, working to a local health authority’s rules allow a ship with a % of unvaccinated persons and an onboard % of covid cases to debark into their local population….this brings up a multitude of questions. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

Just now, ToxM said:

Will a local health authority want to take a gravely ill unvaccinated person? 

 

Will a port, working to a local health authority’s rules allow a ship with a % of unvaccinated persons and an onboard % of covid cases to debark into their local population….this brings up a multitude of questions. 

Yes to number 1.

No to number 2.

[ToxM]

Just now, Flatbush Flyer said:

Yes to number 1.

No to number 2.

 

I am not sure this will cause anything other than a lot of angry people … angry at the cruise line, angry at ports, angry at others onboard. 

[Robjame]

3 minutes ago, hawkesbaynz said:

My understanding is that Paxlovid has contra-indications with many drugs. Likely folk who are unwell with Covid have more co-morbidities thus more drugs to potentially interact with.

 

Why would someone who is unvaccinated buy a relatively under researched drug (in comparison with the vaccine) when they do not believe in vaccines🤔 

Why did you assume I was speaking about unvaccinated people?
 

As a fully 4x vaccinated individual, if I were to contract Covid I would immediately request a regime of Paxlovid. I will travel with a letter from my family doctor recommending this.

BTW in Canada there is currently a movement to allow pharmacists to prescribe Paxlovid or similar therapeutic. Both my doctor and pharmacist are qualified to identify contraindications.

[Hlitner]

14 hours ago, Nuka said:

I think there are so many unknowns that guidance is difficult with different risk tolerance and circumstances.   I cancelled my Jan 23 booking. I didn't have FCCs and onerous penalties so it was an easier decision for me. Found a Silversea cruise with biz air that was 4 days longer and with biz air I purchased on my own it only ended up costing $500 CAD more. For me, the edicts and changes were unsettling.  

You have hit on an issue denied by some "O" posters which has kept us from booking O.  There are luxury line cruises (i.e. Silverseas, Seabourn, Explora Journeys, etc) that are often a much better value than "O."  These luxury lines generally have no tipping, no upcharges for drinks, etc.  And they often have Business/First Class discounts on air that can save thousands when compared to dealing with O air,    Since the current vaccines do little to prevent the spread of the current BA4 and BA5 variants, requiring vaccinations my not be as important as in the past.  On the other hand, when newly reformulated vaccines are released in a few months, NCLH may need to revisit their policy.

 

Hank

[ToxM]

The sooner you can stock up on it the better imo. 

 

Another of my upside down pics arriving now … but this is what we travelled to Barbados with and onto our TA….I will probably travel with a slightly trimmed down version in December. 

 

Due diligence…..

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

You have hit on an issue denied by some "O" posters which has kept us from booking O.  There are luxury line cruises (i.e. Silverseas, Seabourn, Explora Journeys, etc) that are often a much better value than "O."  These luxury lines generally have no tipping, no upcharges for drinks, etc.  And they often have Business/First Class discounts on air that can save thousands when compared to dealing with O air,    Since the current vaccines do little to prevent the spread of the current BA4 and BA5 variants, requiring vaccinations my not be as important as in the past.  On the other hand, when newly reformulated vaccines are released in a few months, NCLH may need to revisit their policy.

 

Hank

Add every included Regent item to the partially inclusive Oceania fare. Same food, same service, same crew. On a 3+ week intercontinental cruise O will usually bottom line at $ thousands less. 

[Hlitner]

29 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Add every included Regent item to the partially inclusive Oceania fare. Same food, same service, same crew. On a 3+ week intercontinental cruise O will usually bottom line at $ thousands less. 

You are in a constant state of denial :).  

[msicmn11]

COVID is still here and surging with these new variants that elude our vaccines to some degree. Now the cruise lines are loosening restrictions for everyone when it makes no health and safety sense, especially for an older demographic, except for their bottom line. Back in January we took a Carribean cruise on Riviera and felt very safe because indoor masking was required and we all had to be vaccinated and tested. It seemed safer then unshore. Now that bubble has turned 180 degrees. Unvaxed are allowed, masking is optional and testing in not required.  Our entire group of 4 passengers on a July Alaska cruise on Celebrity contracted COVID bad, because  a couple thousand passengers were unmasked and we were all healthy, fully vaxed and boosted. We masked in all public areas (except dining and bars of course) and we still got it. We, and I am sure many more, paid the price. Reality check-

We can now contract covid and bring it onboard or contract it onboard  and we may not be symptomatic at first and spread it to those around us, especially if you are not wearing a mask. I know people hate masks, but they are the best line of defense to protect ourselves and those around us. Longer cruises are the hardest if you get sick and have to quarantine or have to leave the ship. Not a fun vacation. Please everyone use some common sense and help protect yourselves and those around you by masking-up. Thanks

[hawkesbaynz]

@Robjame sorry if I caused offence. Most drugs have contra-indications. However I doubt you. and most vaccinated people, would need the drugs as you will get mild symptoms. In the UK there is set criteria for prescription as a limited number of people would benefit it from it in the community (eg immunocompromised and arguably the sick unvaccinated). A doctor needs to apply to the local health board. Naturally a different case in hospital. There is no need to over medicalise a mild illness in the majority of sufferers.

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

You are in a constant state of denial :).  

Regent always comes out too expensive to me. It depends upon whether you're going to take advantage of all those things that are included in Regent pricing.  I won't, so I won't be looking at Regent any time soon. 

 

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

So just out of curiosity:  Has anyone seen a summary of what various cruise lines are currently requiring when it comes to vaccines and testing?