Angry about O accepting unvaxed passengers?

[Hlitner]

23 minutes ago, IWantToLiveOverTheSea said:

Regent always comes out too expensive to me. It depends upon whether you're going to take advantage of all those things that are included in Regent pricing.  I won't, so I won't be looking at Regent any time soon. 

 

I actually agree with you which is why we do not book Regent.  Other luxury lines such as Seabourn, Silverseas, and the new Explora Journeys are priced much lower than Regent.  We have good friends who have routinely cruised on all of the luxury lines and they do not see Regent as a good value when compared to their competition.  That being said, Regent often includes Business Class air fare, pre-cruise luxury hotels, and most excursions in their fare.  

 

But I recently looked at the O Regatta's September 2023, 18 day Canada/NE/Bermuda cruise.  Using current pricing for the smallest suite (which is close to the size we would get booking with Seabourn or Explora Journeys) the O cruise prices out at $666 per passenger day (plus tips and drink upgrade).  The Explora Journey I (which is a new luxury line owned by MSC) prices out at $550 per passenger day (all-inclusive).  Seabourn does not have a comparable 18 day cruise but they do have a 12 day Canada/NE cruise (the same month) that prices out about $630 per passenger day (all-inclusive).   And keep in mind that the old "R" ships do not come close to the luxury line vessels in terms of space ratios or amenities.  

 

Our issue is that whenever we see an O cruise that looks interesting, once we do some comparison shopping, we end up booking a luxury cruise line which is always a much better value.  This is especially true when looking at the "R" ships.  The new "O" ships do seem to come a lot closer to the luxury lines in terms of space ratios although the cabin and bathroom sizes are still a bit small to be considered "luxury" by most cruisers familiar with the luxury lines.

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

52 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

You are in a constant state of denial :).  

Are you really unaware that Oceania and Regent both now use NCL entertainment management and air department AND have always used identical crew recruitment/management services, purchasing, etc. dating back to the Apollo Group days?

[Hlitner]

Just now, Flatbush Flyer said:

Are you really unaware that Oceania and Regent both now use NCL entertainment management and air department AND have always used identical crew recruitment/management services, purchasing, etc. dating back to the Apollo Group days?

You will not see me defending Regent (a line that we have never cruised) as we have always found their pricing to be too darn expensive.  But it is nice to hear that O is upgrading their entertainment (if that is truly the case).   The line that really has me excited is the new Explora Journeys.  All the pieces fit together to make this one of the best of all the luxury cruise lines, but we will have to wait and see whether they perform up to expectations.  MSC (who owns Explora Journeys) is quite unique in the cruise world in that they have very deep pockets, are basically a family run corporation, and seem to play the long game rather than chasing their tails for short term profits.  I have no doubt that new line will have great onboard service and very good entertainment (which we have found on all our MSC Yacht Club cruises).  But my big question is whether their cuisine will be up to expectations because this is an issue that we think haunts MSC.

 

But I mention Explora Journeys because they are pricing out cruises starting at about $500 per passenger day (for the lowest category suites).  That price gets you a suite over 300 sq feet (plus balcony) and an all-inclusive cruise (no tipping policy, no drink package upsells, etc).  As I have pointed out elsewhere, when we price out some O cruises (on R ships) using the lowest price suite (which would be comparable to Explora Journeys or even Seabourn) the O product is consistently more expensive.    But a new cruise line might help wake up some of the competition.

 

Hank

[Jancruz]

2 hours ago, Robjame said:

Why did you assume I was speaking about unvaccinated people?
 

As a fully 4x vaccinated individual, if I were to contract Covid I would immediately request a regime of Paxlovid. I will travel with a letter from my family doctor recommending this.

BTW in Canada there is currently a movement to allow pharmacists to prescribe Paxlovid or similar therapeutic. Both my doctor and pharmacist are qualified to identify contraindications.

My husband and I took Paxlovid with us on the cruise(May)  in case we needed it..we did in fact use it two months later (July) when we got covid and we hadnt any idea where we contracted it...you can,  get a prescription  and take it with you it is free..

Jancruz1

[Guest ldtr]

6 hours ago, Robjame said:

…and these are all fully vaccinated.

 

‘Current vaccines do not protect you from Omicron infection. Rather they protect you from serious consequences of Omicron infection.

 

As a fully vaccinated (4 doses) of vaccine I accept the possibility (risk) of catching Covid. Data supports that it will most likely be asymptomatic or mild considering my risk factors.

Not quite the current efficacy rate for preventing infection is about 40%.  So it will prevent infection in about 40% of those that would otherwise get infected.  Of course that leaves 60% of vaccinated individuals that can still get infected.  Still 40% efficacy is quite a bit better than the 0% efficacy against infection that you are implying.

[MEFIowa]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

... Our issue is that whenever we see an O cruise that looks interesting, once we do some comparison shopping, we end up booking a luxury cruise line which is always a much better value.  This is especially true when looking at the "R" ships.  The new "O" ships do seem to come a lot closer to the luxury lines in terms of space ratios although the cabin and bathroom sizes are still a bit small to be considered "luxury" by most cruisers familiar with the luxury lines.

That's why I pay close attention to O's periodic sales. That 12/21 A4 Concierge Veranda on Riviera I paid $2099 cruise-only fare for 10 nights during 2021 Presidents' Day Sale is currently listed same ship, same room, same cruise in early 2023 at $3999. Caught a nice sale earlier this year for a 2023 Med cruise.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

That's why I pay close attention to O's periodic sales. That 12/21 A4 Concierge Veranda on Riviera I paid $2099 cruise-only fare for 10 nights during 2021 Presidents' Day Sale is currently listed same ship, same room, same cruise in early 2023 at $3999. Caught a nice sale earlier this year for a 2023 Med cruise.

That was a great fare.  We snagged a really nice fare on the Dec 2021 Marina cruise (18) days which we cancelled when O changed the itinerary 3 weeks before the cruise and moved our debarkation port 1500 miles south to Santiago Chile.  We really looked forward that O cruise, but COVID restrictions screwed everything up.    But now you are talking about a "R" ship at $400 a passenger day plus tips plus drink package upgrade (if you want to compare to luxury lines).  IMHO, $400 per passenger day in a R ship balcony cabin is not competitive (value wise) with many other cruise lines.    But as we both know, real sales are good things are we are always watching :).

 

 

If our HAL cruise (42 days) scheduled for Asia in March-April 2023 gets cancelled (which is likely due to Japan's COVID restrictions) than we will be on the hunt for an alternative.  We have had our eye on an O cruise from South Africa to Singapore, since it could be months until we know the situation with that Asian booking.  Life is good, and lots of fun, for cruisers/travelers.   But the airlines do certainly add a few layers of anxiety to trip planning.

 

Hank

[EEB_Ott]

3 hours ago, IWantToLiveOverTheSea said:

So just out of curiosity:  Has anyone seen a summary of what various cruise lines are currently requiring when it comes to vaccines and testing?  

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this info. but this link was posted on FaceBook today-https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/current-vaccine-and-testing-requirements-for-all-major-cruise-lines.html?ubhide=true&utm_source=omeda_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=eltr_Daily&oly_enc_id=0440E0856212F5E&fbclid=IwAR0Yd87qkU0VHOc48tS8dhyRlA5kfYbNdS70rfGksniXl4fGlSyXmvX0uQY

[cruisingxpert]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I have no doubt that new line will have great onboard service and very good entertainment (which we have found on all our MSC Yacht Club cruises).  But my big question is whether their cuisine will be up to expectations because this is an issue that we think haunts MSC.

 

Cruise Critic Chris who is on Marina right now said Franck Garanger has left O and is now head of Cuisine for Explora Journeys.

[Robjame]

18 minutes ago, cruisingxpert said:

Cruise Critic Chris who is on Marina right now said Franck Garanger has left O and is now head of Cuisine for Explora Journeys.

It looks interesting but Explora’s emphasis/catering to children makes it a “no” for me. 
 

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, Robjame said:

It looks interesting but Explora’s emphasis/catering to children makes it a “no” for me. 
 

We have cruised on adult only lines, lines that get a few kids, and lines that attract lots of families and kids.  While children/teens can certainly cause some issues, the bulk of problems we have encountered and seen on cruise ships have been from adults.  I am not sure we agree with your comment about "catering" to children but it does fit in with the MSC family-oriented philosophy.   When we have looked at deck plans of the Explora I we have not noticed anything in the way of specialized facilities for kids so this should go far in keeping their numbers within reason.    There is a big difference to "catering" to children and teens a la Disney and RCI vs being welcoming to families.

 

Hank

[Godblessourhome]

2 hours ago, Jancruz said:

My husband and I took Paxlovid with us on the cruise(May)  in case we needed it..we did in fact use it two months later (July) when we got covid and we hadnt any idea where we contracted it...you can,  get a prescription  and take it with you it is free..

Jancruz1

How to you manage to get a prescription for Paxlovid BEFORE you actually get COVID?  We would love to have the Paxlovid at hand - before we cruise - just in case!!  Please advise.  Thank you!!

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Godblessourhome said:

How to you manage to get a prescription for Paxlovid BEFORE you actually get COVID?  We would love to have the Paxlovid at hand - before we cruise - just in case!!  Please advise.  Thank you!!

In the USA most of us go to private family physicians.  If we want a script for Paxlovid (or any other drug) it would just be a matter of telephoning our physicans office and making the request,  They might say yes, might say no, or might ask us to come in to talk to the doctor.    When we first started living in Mexico during the winter I would ask my physician for a script for Cipro which we used to carry along with a few other drugs (now we would simply buy it in Mexico).   My family doctor actually would laugh about us living in Mexico and want to write scripts for more drugs (it became a friendly joke). 

 

 Ironically, I have a routine appointment with my family physician later this month and will have a chat with him about how he feels about Paxlovid and whether DW and I should carry the drug with us when we travel.  With my own knowledge of drugs/medicine I do have some concerns about Paxlovid which is a good reason to have a chat with my doctor.  In our health system that is generally not a problem.

 

Hank

[Jancruz]

21 minutes ago, Godblessourhome said:

How to you manage to get a prescription for Paxlovid BEFORE you actually get COVID?  We would love to have the Paxlovid at hand - before we cruise - just in case!!  Please advise.  Thank you!!

We called our Doctor, told him we were going on a cruise and wanted to take Paxlovid with us..he wrote a prescription that day..it was not a problem at all..

Jancruz1

[Flatbush Flyer]

46 minutes ago, Godblessourhome said:

How to you manage to get a prescription for Paxlovid BEFORE you actually get COVID?  We would love to have the Paxlovid at hand - before we cruise - just in case!!  Please advise.  Thank you!!

The same way you get an Rx for antibiotics before you need them. If your long-serving MD considers your Hx (incl Dx, Tx and Rx) and compliance, s/he should have no issue prescribing a course of appropriate meds for you to have on hand.

[njhorseman]

41 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The same way you get an Rx for antibiotics before you need them. If your long-serving MD considers your Hx (incl Dx, Tx and Rx) and compliance, s/he should have no issue prescribing a course of appropriate meds for you to have on hand.

Well...perhaps not. This is my understanding based on what I've read and been told:

 

Paxlovid is not an FDA approved drug, it is permitted to be prescribed under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA).  Unlike FDA approved drugs, which physicians are allowed to prescribe "off label", an EUA technically only permits a drug to be prescribed in accordance with FDA permissions and instructions.  Paxlovid's EUA is solely for patients who have been diagnosed with COVID-19 by means of a positive SARS-CoV-2 test . (At home positive tests are permitted for this purpose.)

This would seem to preclude prescribing Paxlovid for someone just in case  they might need it later.

My understanding is that some physicians are willing to turn a blind eye to that but others will not prescribe it to someone who has not been diagnosed with COVID.

[Flatbush Flyer]

39 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Well...perhaps not. This is my understanding based on what I've read and been told:

 

Paxlovid is not an FDA approved drug, it is permitted to be prescribed under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA).  Unlike FDA approved drugs, which physicians are allowed to prescribe "off label", an EUA technically only permits a drug to be prescribed in accordance with FDA permissions and instructions.  Paxlovid's EUA is solely for patients who have been diagnosed with COVID-19 by means of a positive SARS-CoV-2 test . (At home positive tests are permitted for this purpose.)

This would seem to preclude prescribing Paxlovid for someone just in case  they might need it later.

My understanding is that some physicians are willing to turn a blind eye to that but others will not prescribe it to someone who has not been diagnosed with COVID.

Good to know.

[Plainfred]

Today my long time physician declined to prescribe Paxlovid “in case I need it” for my upcoming cruise. He said it’s not authorized under current protocols (rules?) unless to treat existing diagnosed disease.  

[JPR]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:44 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Are you as displeased as I am with NCLH’s recent decision to allow unvaccinated passengers onboard Oceania ships?  From the recent posts here, it looks like a good prediction of a significant number of unhappy O regulars. 

Well, there is something you can do about it right now, today. Let the new O CEO know if your upset. If, like me, you recently received the official announcement about this vastly premature decision (NO - Covid is not yet an endemic nor is it as harmless as so many ill-informed folks believe) from O, let the new CEO Howard Sherman know about it.

 

You can write a letter to Howard Sherman at O’s corporate headquarters:

 

Howard Sherman, President & CEO

Oceania Cruises

7665 Corporate Center Drive

Miami, FL 33126 USA

 

I don’t have his direct email address yet (though, if it follows the norm at O, it would be HSHERMAN@OCEANIACRUISES.COM).

 

Calling will probably get you the run-around. But, if you’re willing to do a bit of research, you can probably get fairly close to his direct office line (or, at least, his admin. asst.) by contacting Chris Elliott, the syndicated travel writer and ombudsman. His crew at non-profit Elliott Advocacy (elliott.org) are amazing when you need to get to someone who can actually do something. (No cost for this service AND it works).

 

I could provide a stock letter but I’m not a big fan of that tactic since his admin. assistant would probably stop reading after the first repetitive handful. So, I suggest you first state your past positive experience with O, along with your O Club status and what future O plans you have/had - that is, until this misguided decision to allow unvaxed passengers onboard. BTW, if you happen to be a medical or other health professional, identify yourself and consider adding a citation or two (no more) to justify your upset.

 

NOTE: This exact strategy worked several years ago when O announced that vaping would be allowed with less restrictions. The outpouring of unhappy customers got that decision reversed in less than a week. 
 

While I expect that the certain jump in onboard Covid cases in the very near future will see the decision reversed by early 2024 and then flip flopped with every major spike and bad press, this is no time to just sit by. 
 

It would also help tremendously to impress upon your TAs to do the same thing - particularly if they are among O’s “preferred partners.” We, as passengers, may be mere rounding errors in O’s daily bottom line. But, they represent millions in revenue.

 

Best of luck with whatever you do to stop this lunacy.

I do not agree. Please think logically. Since vaccinated people are getting Covid too (the advantage is that it tends to be milder) and since the current strains generally aren’t lethal, doesn’t this decision pose a real risk only to the unvaccinated passengers? Shouldn’t they be able to decide for themselves?

[smj]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Well...perhaps not. This is my understanding based on what I've read and been told:

 

Paxlovid is not an FDA approved drug, it is permitted to be prescribed under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA).  Unlike FDA approved drugs, which physicians are allowed to prescribe "off label", an EUA technically only permits a drug to be prescribed in accordance with FDA permissions and instructions.  Paxlovid's EUA is solely for patients who have been diagnosed with COVID-19 by means of a positive SARS-CoV-2 test . (At home positive tests are permitted for this purpose.)

This would seem to preclude prescribing Paxlovid for someone just in case  they might need it later.

My understanding is that some physicians are willing to turn a blind eye to that but others will not prescribe it to someone who has not been diagnosed with COVID.

You are correct!

[PhD-iva]

8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Add every included Regent item to the partially inclusive Oceania fare. Same food, same service, same crew. On a 3+ week intercontinental cruise O will usually bottom line at $ thousands less. 

Not for me when I am traveling solo. Rare to find low solo supplements on O except for near term itins. I book 1 or 2 years in advance. I currently have 2 reservations on Regent, 1 is past FP so I will go on that one. 
Don’t know what the future will bring…..

[JeffElizabeth]

I don't have an issue traveling with unvaccinated passengers.  My four shots should protect me, right? 

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, JPR said:

I do not agree. Please think logically. Since vaccinated people are getting Covid too (the advantage is that it tends to be milder) and since the current strains generally aren’t lethal, doesn’t this decision pose a real risk only to the unvaccinated passengers? Shouldn’t they be able to decide for themselves?

There decision impacts others in a very real way.

What’s interesting in many recent threads related to Covid is the often heard “symptoms are mild” with zero mention of the mounting evidence regarding long term implications of Covid infection. 
It will be very interesting to see what longer term studies say regarding the negatives already established.

Not a study I’d want to be in. How about you?

[PhD-iva]

4 minutes ago, JeffElizabeth said:

I don't have an issue traveling with unvaccinated passengers.  My four shots should protect me, right? 

Your 4 shots won’t protect you from missing ports so that seriously ill pax can be medivac’ed to a hospital. 
Ok, the risk of missing ports due to a deviation already exists given the older demographic sailing on O, but this policy change can be expected to increase the number of seriously ill pax. The revised sail safe policy specifically mentioned increased ICU facilities onboard. O expects more people to get seriously ill. But I predict  their family will insist on transportation to more robust facilities.

[Flatbush Flyer]

18 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

Not for me when I am traveling solo. Rare to find low solo supplements on O except for near term itins. I book 1 or 2 years in advance. I currently have 2 reservations on Regent, 1 is past FP so I will go on that one. 
Don’t know what the future will bring…..

The future is already written. Vista will have single cabins and it’s my understanding that the upcoming NEXT mods on both Riviera and Marina will see some single conversions.