Dress code

[Red Leicester]

Times change whether we like it or not.  Chatting with my dad his view of cruising was stuck in the 1970s, not helped by the fact he's never been on one, along with his views on management.  "It's not how I'd have managed that".  Well no dad, you retired in 1999 and things, styles and technology move on, new generations take over.  Some for the better, some not so.  I've been in work roles where retention was a huge issue due to a senior manager not adopting their management style.

 

I went on a vintage bus a few weeks back, a huge sign at the front said "No Spitting".  I have never seen that on any normal buses I have been on, and I'd wager I've been on many many more buses than most.  Society moves on, tastes change, expectations change so we don't need this any more.  And thankfully in that case!

 

Like a poster above I'm 44 and life has become more relaxed.  When I started going out in the 90s you did need smart trousers and shoes to get in anywhere on a Friday or Saturday evening.  Now you don't.  I was expected (though never forced) to wear a tie to work when I started, I haven't done for a decade now.  You can even wear tailored shorts to work.  There are some things I don't like about today, social media being one (sure there's an irony in posting this).  I'm sure when I retire and continue to cruise there will be changes from a younger generation I don't like, it could even be shorts allowed after hours.  If that's what businesses must do to remain afloat they will make the change.

 

I've (hopefully) got a good 30+ years cruising left in me and that is potentially a lot of revenue for P&O, they will need to adapt, slowly, to ensure they keep me coming back long term.  And then in 30 years they will be adapting for the next generation.

[dgs1956]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

If you want a pure formal experience Iona may not be for you. Having eaten in the MDR, Epicurian or Sindu which venues can you use for the rest of the evening with a guarantee of formal dress? The answer is the Crows Nest, everywhere else is evening casual including Andersons!.

I think that's probably correct, at least that's my impression. I think P&O have decided to do that on the the two newer ships.

[Eddie99]

Wowzz - Did you just delete a post?  I’ve just started this one with “That’s it, in a nutshell” in response to yours (or did I dream it?) Now I’ve had to return to edit, to give it some context

 

… and for a bit of controversy - some ( usually older) men don’t half let themselves down, sometimes.  No need for the full collar & tie, cuff links and sharply creased trousers,  but there is a difference between ‘evening casual’ and looking like you’ve just come in from gardening!

 

That said, it doesn’t make my dinner any less tasty, or my wine less pleasant, so I shouldn’t really bother, should I?

Edited October 11, 2022 by Eddie99

[david63]

An interesting observation.

 

Earlier this year we did a back-to-back on Britannia - the first being to the Baltic and the second to the Med.

 

On the first cruise there was an older passenger demographic than there was on the second cruise, which had quite a lot of younger, first time and family cruisers. The point here is that on the second cruise the level of "formal dress" was far higher than that of the first cruise.

 

Now I know that this is not a scientific survey but, to me, it shows that formal wear is what a lot of the "new generation" cruisers still want and yes it probably does depend on the actual ship with the likes of Iona and Arvia becoming more casual.

[zap99]

7 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Wowzz - Did you just delete a post?  I’ve just started this one with “That’s it, in a nutshell” in response to yours (or did I dream it?) Now I’ve had to return to edit, to give it some context

 

… and for a bit of controversy - some ( usually older) men don’t half let themselves down, sometimes.  No need for the full collar & tie, cuff links and sharply creased trousers,  but there is a difference between ‘evening casual’ and looking like you’ve just come in from gardening!

 

That said, it doesn’t make my dinner any less tasty, or my wine less pleasant, so I shouldn’t really bother, should I?

We prefer..Not...formal, but will do so if necessary, particularly NYE in a posh hotel.. Some gents seem to use as their formal style guru. Sir Les Patterson ( not you Harry ).🤣

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, zap99 said:

We prefer..Not...formal, but will do so if necessary, particularly NYE in a posh hotel.. Some gents seem to use as their formal style guru. Sir Les Patterson ( not you Harry ).🤣

Sir Les has been my role model for many years, Zap.  I admire him greatly, and everything he stands for. I always dress the way he does, have always been welcomed into the Epicurean, and have always been shown to a quiet, secluded table well away from all the other diners so that they don’t disturb my sensibilities and those of my lovely dining partners.

[Red Ray]

Mrs RR and I both love formal nights. I have to wear a shirt and tie or my job and I have no problem with that. Away from work I can dress as casually as I like but a cruise is a great opportunity twice a week to dress up and feel a it special. Nothing worse on a formal night than seeing people marching through the ship dressed in vest tops and flip flops as witnessed on Azura last month. Fortunately 90% of pax adhered to the dress code and long may that continue.

[zap99]

25 minutes ago, Red Ray said:

Mrs RR and I both love formal nights. I have to wear a shirt and tie or my job and I have no problem with that. Away from work I can dress as casually as I like but a cruise is a great opportunity twice a week to dress up and feel a it special. Nothing worse on a formal night than seeing people marching through the ship dressed in vest tops and flip flops as witnessed on Azura last month. Fortunately 90% of pax adhered to the dress code and long may that continue.

Vest tops should be prohibited after 6 o'clock. 6.00am

[AnnieC]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

I've only been posting here for seven years or so, but the feeling about formal nights does seem to be changing. Fortunately, the discussions are not as vitriolic as on some of the US forums !

For what it's worth, I like the fact that P&O try  and keep a smart casual ambience on non formal nights. No shorts, wife beater vests, baseball caps etc.

However, I do think a move away from formal nights to a 'dress to impress' format is overdue. Black tie for those who wish to do so, or just something a bit more blingy for the rest. And once a week is enough.

It's done a complete about turn in roughly the last three or so years; in the past every dress code thread would feature the same bod who popped up with imaginary percentages of those wearing bow tie and others would chime in, sometimes quite unpleasantly, nearly always along the lines of "why choose P&O if you don't particularly like formal nights", completely overlooking the small point that, between them, in the not too distant past, P&O, Cunard and Fred Olsen, all of them featuring formality, were almost the only mainstream cruise lines to sail out of the UK. Plus, of course, as someone has already said so eloquently, there's a bit more to deciding on a holiday than one aspect that doesn't particularly appeal.

 

From memory Davecttr was one of the few brave enough to debate the subject from the other perspective; I certainly laid low.

Edited October 11, 2022 by AnnieC

[zap99]

1 minute ago, AnnieC said:

It's done a complete about turn in roughly the last three or so years; in the past every dress code thread would feature the same bod who popped up with imaginary percentages of those wearing bow tie and others would chime in, sometimes quite unpleasantly, nearly always along the lines of "why choose P&O if you don't particularly like formal nights", completely overlooking the small point that, between them, in the not too distant past, P&O, Cunard and Fred Olsen, all of them featuring formality, were almost the only mainstream cruise lines to sail out of the UK. Plus, of course, as someone has already said so eloquently, there's a bit more to deciding on a holiday than one aspect that doesn't particularly appeal.

 

From memory Davectr was one of the few brave enough to debate the subject from the other perspective; I certainly laid low.

I agree with approximately 93.7684% of what you say.😉

[bbtablet]

Red Leicester  I went on a vintage bus a few weeks back, a huge sign at the front said "No Spitting".

We digress, but yes, as you say, Times change.

 

Back in  the late '40s and early 50's I used to watch St. Albans City F.C. (Clarence Park) and there were no-go areas where "old" men would congregate to spit throughout the whole match. At the time I  thought it was disgusting but have since realised that this was an inevitable result of the dominant culture of smoking (you weren't a real man if you didn't smoke), smog (pea-soupers) and the resulting bronchitis of the time.

Nowadays it is only footballers who seem to think it is acceptable to spit, and how well they  have mastered the art of waiting until the camera has them in close-up before letting fly!

 

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, AnnieC said:

It's done a complete about turn in roughly the last three or so years; in the past every dress code thread would feature the same bod who popped up with imaginary percentages of those wearing bow tie and others would chime in, sometimes quite unpleasantly, nearly always along the lines of "why choose P&O if you don't particularly like formal nights", completely overlooking the small point that, between them, in the not too distant past, P&O, Cunard and Fred Olsen, all of them featuring formality, were almost the only mainstream cruise lines to sail out of the UK. Plus, of course, as someone has already said so eloquently, there's a bit more to deciding on a holiday than one aspect that doesn't particularly appeal.

 

From memory Davecttr was one of the few brave enough to debate the subject from the other perspective; I certainly laid low.

Aargh!

 

IIRC back then my point was that the ships were big enough to cater for both preferences and this is even more so nowadays.

 

One thing which still irritates me is the venue dress code requirements on the P&O site STILL don't match the onboard reality. Almost as if the truth might scare away a potential customer so they let a porkie or two slip through the non existent proof reading.

[Red Leicester]

6 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Aargh!

 

IIRC back then my point was that the ships were big enough to cater for both preferences and this is even more so nowadays.

 

One thing which still irritates me is the venue dress code requirements on the P&O site STILL don't match the onboard reality. Almost as if the truth might scare away a potential customer so they let a porkie or two slip through the non existent proof reading.

Examples?

[davecttr]

24 minutes ago, Red Leicester said:

Examples?

How about the Glass House on Azura and Ventura. Is it formal on black tie night?. If so things have changed recently.

[Red Leicester]

Ah gotcha.  I went by the Daily Horizon which put a little *** by those venues that were black tie only.  That was as live as it got.  Though confusingly the same *** on the restaurant list meant Genuine Costa Coffee is served here on the bar list.  ** on the bar list was black tie only.  Or something like that.  They didn't quite marry up.

[davecttr]

No problem. Maybe those who have cruised on Azura/Ventura recently can inform us. If it is now black tie then I will be disappointed because the Glass house was my favourite venue.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Eddie99 said:

Wowzz - Did you just delete a post?  I’ve just started this one with “That’s it, in a nutshell” in response to yours (or did I dream it?) Now I’ve had to return to edit, to give it some context

 

… and for a bit of controversy - some ( usually older) men don’t half let themselves down, sometimes.  No need for the full collar & tie, cuff links and sharply creased trousers,  but there is a difference between ‘evening casual’ and looking like you’ve just come in from gardening!

 

That said, it doesn’t make my dinner any less tasty, or my wine less pleasant, so I shouldn’t really bother, should I?

No, I didn't delete it, is still there !

[Eddie99]

Correct

It’s your post bottom of Page 2 which I thought summed up my views pretty well.  I answered, thinking I was posting immediately after you but there were several new posts on P3 which I hadn’t seen.  D’oh.  I scrolled up looking for yours but didn’t go back a page.  No worries - I agree with what you wrote & put in a little piece of my own too

 

It feels like ages since we had a full blown dress code thread.  Just like old times 🙂 I think a lot of people are much more relaxed now - or perhaps fewer people are very exercised on the subject? 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Correct

It’s your post bottom of Page 2 which I thought summed up my views pretty well.  I answered, thinking I was posting immediately after you but there were several new posts on P3 which I hadn’t seen.  D’oh.  I scrolled up looking for yours but didn’t go back a page.  No worries - I agree with what you wrote & put in a little piece of my own too

 

It feels like ages since we had a full blown dress code thread.  Just like old times 🙂 I think a lot of people are much more relaxed now - or perhaps fewer people are very exercised on the subject? 

I think that there should still be one evening per week when people put in a little extra effort. How much effort is then down to the individual.

[Eddie99]

Yes.  That’s plenty

2 in a 14 night cruise is bearable, and probably justifies taking a DJ etc.  after that it gets a bit weird.  2 on a 19 night would also suit me but after that …?

Our last cruise was a lovely 35 nighter.  We really, really didn’t need 10 dress-ups.  It felt like everyone was bored.  As I sat, in the MDR,  next to a guy in his best bib & tucker eating his fish & chips (it was probably described a bit more up-market than that on the menu) I though that even the executive chef had had enough!

[Harry Peterson]

20 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

It feels like ages since we had a full blown dress code thread.  Just like old times 🙂 I think a lot of people are much more relaxed now - or perhaps fewer people are very exercised on the subject? 

You’re right. Most people on here now seem much more relaxed about it.

I suspect the ones who used to freak at the very mention of the two words smart and casual used together are no longer cruising.

[dgs1956]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

You’re right. Most people on here now seem much more relaxed about it.

I suspect the ones who used to freak at the very mention of the two words smart and casual used together are no longer cruising.

.... or maybe they just realise it is a boring and worn-out discussion and have left it to the small number of people that keep knocking away with the feint hope that P&O will introduce a dress code that will require us to wear t-shirts, shorts and flip-flops. 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, dgs1956 said:

.... or maybe they just realise it is a boring and worn-out discussion and have left it to the small number of people that keep knocking away with the feint hope that P&O will introduce a dress code that will require us to wear t-shirts, shorts and flip-flops. 

Maybe, but I think the other interpretation is more likely, because it’s usually older people who’ve been pushing for a continuation of compulsory formal wear across large areas of the ship.

Nobody’s even remotely suggested T-shirts, shorts or flip-flops by the way. Pretty much every post has been against all 3!

[davecttr]

40 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think that there should still be one evening per week when people put in a little extra effort. How much effort is then down to the individual.

I do I do. On formal night it is a flashy shirt, black chinos and black trainers

[davecttr]

51 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Correct

It’s your post bottom of Page 2 which I thought summed up my views pretty well.  I answered, thinking I was posting immediately after you but there were several new posts on P3 which I hadn’t seen.  D’oh.  I scrolled up looking for yours but didn’t go back a page.  No worries - I agree with what you wrote & put in a little piece of my own too

 

It feels like ages since we had a full blown dress code thread.  Just like old times 🙂 I think a lot of people are much more relaxed now - or perhaps fewer people are very exercised on the subject? 

Exercised or Exorcised