LOUSY CRUISE ON ZUIDERDAM

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

And that goes back to the originally referenced discussion about doctor’s notes.  Unfortunately Cruise Critic does not have nesting so the gist of conversation is easily lost as is the follow up

In the USA, requiring a "physicians note" can become a major issue.  There would be folks who would call that requirement racist, discriminatory, and even illegal.   Should the morbidly obese be required to present a physicians note?  How about anyone who uses an O2 Concentrator?  Should anyone who uses insulin be required to have a note?  

 

How about having everyone be forced to take a pre-embarkation physical?  One could go on and on with the various questions.  During the worst part of the COVID Pandemic there was lots of talk about requiring a physicians note from seniors who wanted to travel/cruise.  That idea was quickly dropped as folks realized that it opened a hornet's nest of problems (some of which I have listed above).  In our society nothing is simple and what appears to be simple becomes a national issue.

 

And I had to smile about the comment regarding renal issues and Paxlovid.  I actually had that very conversation with our own physician, and it is relatively straightforward to look at the specified minimum Creatinine (specified in the Paxlovid prescribing info).  It actually does not say that those with a high creatinine level cannot use Paxlovid but rather specifies that certain folks need to use a reduced dosage (of one of the two drugs that make up Paxlovid).  The irony is that those with impaired renal function are already at very high risk of kidney failure and/or death from COVID but are also at greater risk from simply using Paxlovid.  So which risk is greater?  Most of us depend on our personal physicians to assess that kind of risk. 

 

Personally, I would prefer relying on our own physician rather than an unknown cruise line physician.  Over the years we have had two major health issues while on cruises and both were handled well because the onboard physicians sent us ashore to be treated by competent local medical folks.  In one case the onboard physician completely blew an orthopedic diagnosis (she missed a dangerous fracture and blamed the lousy x-ray on the ship) and also failed to properly stabilize the fracture (the shoreside Orthopedic Surgeon was somewhat shocked).    Many of us might remember the days when HAL only used North American physicians (mostly board eligible/certified ER docs).  Anyone notice that cruise lines no longer use North America physicians and wonder why?  It is actually an interesting issue.  With our two major medical issues onboard ships, we were very impressed with one of the physicians (from South Africa) and somewhat horrified at the lack of skill of the other physician (Romanian).  

 

Hank

[*Miss G*]

23 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Many of us might remember the days when HAL only used North American physicians (mostly board eligible/certified ER docs).  Anyone notice that cruise lines no longer use North America physicians and wonder why?

 

The physician and nursing staff I saw onboard the Oosterdam in October were most definitely North American.

[BetsyS.]

Hank - I agree with you about the physicians' notes. It is a slippery slope. 

Seniors are not the only people with health issues. Younger people can have 

medical problems too, as we know.

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

In the USA, requiring a "physicians note" can become a major issue.  There would be folks who would call that requirement racist, discriminatory, and even illegal.   Should the morbidly obese be required to present a physicians note?  How about anyone who uses an O2 Concentrator?  Should anyone who uses insulin be required to have a note?  

 

How about having everyone be forced to take a pre-embarkation physical?  One could go on and on with the various questions.  During the worst part of the COVID Pandemic there was lots of talk about requiring a physicians note from seniors who wanted to travel/cruise.  That idea was quickly dropped as folks realized that it opened a hornet's nest of problems (some of which I have listed above).  In our society nothing is simple and what appears to be simple becomes a national issue.

 

And I had to smile about the comment regarding renal issues and Paxlovid.  I actually had that very conversation with our own physician, and it is relatively straightforward to look at the specified minimum Creatinine (specified in the Paxlovid prescribing info).  It actually does not say that those with a high creatinine level cannot use Paxlovid but rather specifies that certain folks need to use a reduced dosage (of one of the two drugs that make up Paxlovid).  The irony is that those with impaired renal function are already at very high risk of kidney failure and/or death from COVID but are also at greater risk from simply using Paxlovid.  So which risk is greater?  Most of us depend on our personal physicians to assess that kind of risk. 

 

Personally, I would prefer relying on our own physician rather than an unknown cruise line physician.  Over the years we have had two major health issues while on cruises and both were handled well because the onboard physicians sent us ashore to be treated by competent local medical folks.  In one case the onboard physician completely blew an orthopedic diagnosis (she missed a dangerous fracture and blamed the lousy x-ray on the ship) and also failed to properly stabilize the fracture (the shoreside Orthopedic Surgeon was somewhat shocked).    Many of us might remember the days when HAL only used North American physicians (mostly board eligible/certified ER docs).  Anyone notice that cruise lines no longer use North America physicians and wonder why?  It is actually an interesting issue.  With our two major medical issues onboard ships, we were very impressed with one of the physicians (from South Africa) and somewhat horrified at the lack of skill of the other physician (Romanian).  

 

Hank

And this was the original discussion.  I guess we should petition CC to add nesting to discussions so the subtopics have cohesiveness 

[VMax1700]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

And this was the original discussion.  

er,   no!  The original was about a bad cruise on Zuiderdam.  Everything else is thread drift with personal viewpoints and perceptions.

[Riversedge]

On 12/4/2022 at 5:08 PM, alexisaboard said:

I’m surprised not to see mention of the dozens of buckets spread throughout the ship, across all decks, collecting dripping water from the ceiling. I work in hospitality - we would be terribly embarrassed if this were our guests’ experience. 
 

 

 

The crew was phenomenal, but the Zuiderdam is on her last legs. It’s really rather appalling that HAL does not have more shame. The buckets collecting dripping water really say it all. And that was across all decks, from deck 1 to deck 10. 
 

We made wonderful friends and had a great time overall. We have a good attitude and are easy-going, pretty easy to please. But these issues, on paper, paint a pretty grim picture. As one of our new friends said, it felt like we were on the holodeck or an episode of the Twilight Zone. Something was just off on this voyage. 

This sound exactly like our experience on the Zuiderdam’s Voyage of the Vikings (maybe 5 years ago?). I can’t believe it’s still in the same condition. That was our worst cruise experience ever.  They had a bucket outside our room collecting water from the dripping ceiling for the first 2 weeks.  I finally joked with our room steward that I was going to buy a floatie and have a pool party in the hall.  It got miraculously patched after that.   Going down each hallway was a challenge for able bodied people.  Don’t know how the many scooters maneuvered through the buckets.  It wasn’t just the drips, it was the whole experience and we will never book that ship again.  There were many many complaints about a lot of things and their answer was that the ship we were supposed to go on changed to a different itinerary so the Zuiderdam wasn’t prepared for a long voyage. I believe it’s leaving on the World Cruise today. It should have been in perfect condition. 

[Wakepatrol]

51 minutes ago, Riversedge said:

This sound exactly like our experience on the Zuiderdam’s Voyage of the Vikings (maybe 5 years ago?). I can’t believe it’s still in the same condition. That was our worst cruise experience ever.  They had a bucket outside our room collecting water from the dripping ceiling for the first 2 weeks.  I finally joked with our room steward that I was going to buy a floatie and have a pool party in the hall.  It got miraculously patched after that.   Going down each hallway was a challenge for able bodied people.  Don’t know how the many scooters maneuvered through the buckets.  It wasn’t just the drips, it was the whole experience and we will never book that ship again.  There were many many complaints about a lot of things and their answer was that the ship we were supposed to go on changed to a different itinerary so the Zuiderdam wasn’t prepared for a long voyage. I believe it’s leaving on the World Cruise today. It should have been in perfect condition. 

I just got off the Zuiderdam this morning.

ship was spotless clean, freshly painted, great crew and food was delicious 

We had a fantastic time on a beautiful ship. 

[trixiee]

1 hour ago, Wakepatrol said:

I just got off the Zuiderdam this morning.

ship was spotless clean, freshly painted, great crew and food was delicious 

We had a fantastic time on a beautiful ship. 

Yes! We had the same experience!  
all was wonderful!

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

er,   no!  The original was about a bad cruise on Zuiderdam.  Everything else is thread drift with personal viewpoints and perceptions.

Again, we need nesting.  The OP did indeed bring up medical evacuations and there was an entire discussion on that topic.   Nesting is needed 

[luvtravel]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:03 AM, Hlitner said:

We have a suggestion for those in high risk categories.  Before you cruise (or travel) ask your own family physician if he/she would advise you to take Paxlovid in the event you tested positive for COVID.  If so, simply explain you will be cruising/traveling and request a prescription.  We carry our own supply (for 2 persons) of Paxlovid along with several home testing kits.  For us, a big advantage of getting Paxlovid at home is that we have a prescription program that pays for the drug.  As very frequent international travelers we carry a pretty decent drug supply to handle most common issues.  

 

Hank

 

On 11/22/2022 at 7:46 AM, Florida_gal_50 said:

That was a long time ago.  I was on a cruise on the koningsdam in March and I'm on the ship now.  The amount of cost cutting is astonishing.

How did you get your doctor to prescribe Paxlovid without a positive test?  I wish mine would but says insurance won’t cover it without a diagnosis.  I asked about taking some with us.  You must have great insurance.  

[Hlitner]

32 minutes ago, luvtravel said:

 

How did you get your doctor to prescribe Paxlovid without a positive test?  I wish mine would but says insurance won’t cover it without a diagnosis.  I asked about taking some with us.  You must have great insurance.  

Was not a problem.  He is aware we are always traveling, and Paxlovid is most effective when used very early in the course of the disease.  I also have enough medical background to not use that drug inappropriately.   One sad issue with antivirals that must be used early to be effective and folks cannot always get access to a medical professional fast enough to take advantage of the drug.  This is not just an issue with Paxlovid but also with other drugs like Tamiflu.  Most drug insurance plans are simply based on an issued prescription as long as the drug is on their formulary.