E class vs. S class

[TeeRick]

3 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

If I'm not mistaken, you're a suite cruiser.  It will be interesting to see if Celebrity' ship within a ship concept for the suites will work out in the long term.  Celebrity is trying to market and price the suites on the E-class the same as the suites on the true luxury lines.   I'm seeing more and more comments that people in this market prefer the true luxury lines.  I believe that Celebrity is trying to use the higher prices on the suites to raise the prices on all of the cabins.  I think this will turn out to be a mistake.  Cruisers in the non-suite cabins will compare the prices to those on other mass market lines and will drift to the lower prices on those lines unless Celebrity adopts competitive prices for the non-suite cabins.

Whatever their strategy- it is working for them.  It is indeed very hard to get a suite on most ships and sailings even at some of these outrageous prices.  So if people pay and suites sell out- why would they ever change?

[Ipeeinthepools]

30 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Whatever their strategy- it is working for them.  It is indeed very hard to get a suite on most ships and sailings even at some of these outrageous prices.  So if people pay and suites sell out- why would they ever change?

 

We'll see how it works out, but I'm seeing a lot of people moving from Celebrity suites to other lines.  I'm sure the plan is for Celebrity to make a lot of money from the suites, but most of the cabins are still non-suite cabins and they have to make money there.  If Celebrity is charging higher prices for the same product on other lines, eventually the customers will move to the lines with lower prices.

[bigbenboys]

35 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

We'll see how it works out, but I'm seeing a lot of people moving from Celebrity suites to other lines.  I'm sure the plan is for Celebrity to make a lot of money from the suites, but most of the cabins are still non-suite cabins and they have to make money there.  If Celebrity is charging higher prices for the same product on other lines, eventually the customers will move to the lines with lower prices.

We did one sailing on Azamara and the ship was boring. Every once in a while I look at Silversea. My negatives are that ships are to small and the dress code. Give me Smart Casual attire every night. Maybe MSC Yacht Club, but again the dress code. 

I just stay away from E-Class ships. I enjoy doing glass blowing. More food options on the M and S Class ships in Luminae.

I just booked an Alaska cruise in a CS. Edge was $7936 pp, Solstice $6036 PP. Solstice ship out of Vancouver has a better itinerary. I booked Solstice and I can do glass blowing. 

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, bigbenboys said:

We did one sailing on Azamara and the ship was boring. Every once in a while I look at Silversea. My negatives are that ships are to small and the dress code. Give me Smart Casual attire every night. Maybe MSC Yacht Club, but again the dress code. 

I just stay away from E-Class ships. I enjoy doing glass blowing. More food options on the M and S Class ships in Luminae.

I just booked an Alaska cruise in a CS. Edge was $7936 pp, Solstice $6036 PP. Solstice ship out of Vancouver has a better itinerary. I booked Solstice and I can do glass blowing. 

How many days cruise at those prices?

[tfred]

3 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

We'll see how it works out, but I'm seeing a lot of people moving from Celebrity suites to other lines.  I'm sure the plan is for Celebrity to make a lot of money from the suites, but most of the cabins are still non-suite cabins and they have to make money there.  If Celebrity is charging higher prices for the same product on other lines, eventually the customers will move to the lines with lower prices.

X doesnt. think its the same product as others.  Obviously they have to "prove" that but the suites are full so that says something

 

X also doesnt want to poach other lines as their main source.  They need new customers - formally land based hotel stays at resorts in the USA.  The JW Marriott in Marco Island is $700/night for a standard room in January .  Add another $250/day for food and booze and its $7K for a week stay. Sounds pretty close to a cabin for 2 on X. The shows and casino are extras that some value

 

No line can survive without expanding the potential customer pool

[bigbenboys]

1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

How many days cruise at those prices?

It is a 7 night cruise

[Ipeeinthepools]

1 hour ago, tfred said:

X doesnt. think its the same product as others.  Obviously they have to "prove" that but the suites are full so that says something

 

X also doesnt want to poach other lines as their main source.  They need new customers - formally land based hotel stays at resorts in the USA.  The JW Marriott in Marco Island is $700/night for a standard room in January .  Add another $250/day for food and booze and its $7K for a week stay. Sounds pretty close to a cabin for 2 on X. The shows and casino are extras that some value

 

No line can survive without expanding the potential customer pool

 

Even if you accept that people are willing to pay the same for suites on Celebrity as the true luxury lines, the open question is for all of the other non-suite cabins.  Most of us don't see a reason to pay more for cruises on the E-class ships for no-suite cabins.  It will be interesting to see what the rates are for non-suite cabins 2 years from now.  I doubt I'll be there.

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Even if you accept that people are willing to pay the same for suites on Celebrity as the true luxury lines, the open question is for all of the other non-suite cabins.  Most of us don't see a reason to pay more for cruises on the E-class ships for no-suite cabins.  It will be interesting to see what the rates are for non-suite cabins 2 years from now.  I doubt I'll be there.

I think I finally understand what the folks on here mean when they say that Celebrity is creating a two class system on their ships. Retreat seems to me to be ALMOST all inclusive, save for upper suites being able to dine in any restaurant, still off limits for some without extra $$$.  All inclusive resorts I’ve stayed at, everyone can eat in all restaurants, drink all top shelf liquor and basically use all facilities as inclusive, barring massage facials etc.  never had any idea who was in a studio, 1 or 2 bedroom oceanfront (just paid extra for type of accommodation) otherwise everything was the same.  The Oceania, Regent et al style of cruising makes a lot more sense to me lately.

[Ipeeinthepools]

37 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I think I finally understand what the folks on here mean when they say that Celebrity is creating a two class system on their ships. Retreat seems to me to be ALMOST all inclusive, save for upper suites being able to dine in any restaurant, still off limits for some without extra $$$.  All inclusive resorts I’ve stayed at, everyone can eat in all restaurants, drink all top shelf liquor and basically use all facilities as inclusive, barring massage facials etc.  never had any idea who was in a studio, 1 or 2 bedroom oceanfront (just paid extra for type of accommodation) otherwise everything was the same.  The Oceania, Regent et al style of cruising makes a lot more sense to me lately.

 

Are you still going to buy me an AI drink on the Edge repositioning cruise?

[George C]

35 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I think I finally understand what the folks on here mean when they say that Celebrity is creating a two class system on their ships. Retreat seems to me to be ALMOST all inclusive, save for upper suites being able to dine in any restaurant, still off limits for some without extra $$$.  All inclusive resorts I’ve stayed at, everyone can eat in all restaurants, drink all top shelf liquor and basically use all facilities as inclusive, barring massage facials etc.  never had any idea who was in a studio, 1 or 2 bedroom oceanfront (just paid extra for type of accommodation) otherwise everything was the same.  The Oceania, Regent et al style of cruising makes a lot more sense to me lately.

We haven’t done it recently but our favorite resorts are sandals, some have all ocean view, all have a great selection of restaurants in many cases over a dozen when you count on near by sandals resorts , all have top level drinks . But you don’t have the entertainment to the level of ships also normally no casinos and in some cases very long walks to get from from one area to another, I am getting old and don’t care for long walks our favorite sandals you need to walk about a mile to go from one end to another. 

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Are you still going to buy me an AI drink on the Edge repositioning cruise?

LOl I went on the cruise in October, I looked high and low for you to no avail, so I gave it to one of the passengers in steerage.

[Ipeeinthepools]

21 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

LOl I went on the cruise in October, I looked high and low for you to no avail, so I gave it to one of the passengers in steerage.

 

Oh man, that's unbelievable.  Maybe someday.  I hope the steerage passenger enjoyed the drink.  We'll still be on the Edge. with all of her problems for the repositioning cruise.  Anyone else want to buy me an AI drink?

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Oh man, that's unbelievable.  Maybe someday.  I hope the steerage passenger enjoyed the drink.  We'll still be on the Edge. with all of her problems for the repositioning cruise.  Anyone else want to buy me an AI drink?

I really loved the ship.  Luminae food/service was great.  Wonderful shows and entertainment speaker in the theatre.  Whether you have it included or not Eden is a great treat.  I ate standard included menu and really enjoyed it.  They have an up-up charge menu also, too much food for me and the additional cost is just another of those annoying and IMO unnecessary money grabs.

[Host Jazzbeau]

6 hours ago, bigbenboys said:

My negatives are that ships are to small and the dress code. Give me Smart Casual attire every night. Maybe MSC Yacht Club, but again the dress code. 

There is no dress code in the MSC Yacht Club.  Smart Casual works every day all day, unless you choose to dine in the MDR [and why would you?].  After dinner, no dress code on the ship – and your butler will escort you to the reserved area for the show.  Granted the ship is huge and crowded, but as a Yacht Club guest you never feel the crowding.

[Host Jazzbeau]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:24 PM, smtcan said:

I have not sailed on E class, but the impression I get from this thread is that suite guests love their facilities while non suite guests are not so happy.

Not every suite guest loves the E class.  Because the Luminae galley is no longer connected to the main galley, you are stuck with the limited menu there [on M- and S-class you can order from the MDR menu].  And the only non-Edgy entertainment is the very limited Retreat.  You either have to jump into Edginess with two feet, or write off E-class. 

[Spurschick]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:24 PM, smtcan said:

I have not sailed on E class, but the impression I get from this thread is that suite guests love their facilities while non suite guests are not so happy.  Since we will probably never book a suite, particularly since the price increases and the fact that drinks are included, which is not value for us, I think we will stick to S class.  After more than 30 cruises with Celebrity, and one more booked, I feel as though it is time to look for another line, maybe one that provides us with more value for money.  I appreciate that everyone has their own version of value, but we cruise for destinations not just to be on a ship.

And yet we booked an 11 night beyond due to the ports (Panama Canal, A/B/C islands etc) in a suite for less than we pay for 7 nights in a suite on Royal with nothing included.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Spurschick

[Spurschick]

15 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

If I'm not mistaken, you're a suite cruiser.  It will be interesting to see if Celebrity' ship within a ship concept for the suites will work out in the long term.  Celebrity is trying to market and price the suites on the E-class the same as the suites on the true luxury lines.   I'm seeing more and more comments that people in this market prefer the true luxury lines.  I believe that Celebrity is trying to use the higher prices on the suites to raise the prices on all of the cabins.  I think this will turn out to be a mistake.  Cruisers in the non-suite cabins will compare the prices to those on other mass market lines and will drift to the lower prices on those lines unless Celebrity adopts competitive prices for the non-suite cabins.

The ship within a ship concept will most definitely work. We have done it on MSC Yacht club several times and people that sail in suites are looking for that experience. It is a huge hit on MSC. It is also the truest version you can get as every suite and amenity is within the sectioned off section of the ship with no through traffic from anyone non suite.
 

Royal are finally moving that way with the closest version currently the Wonder and the Icon tweaks it a bit. Royal have listened that again that’s what their suite guests want.

 

As for Celebrity, yes it will be a big hit, and as for luxury I agree they are pricing themselves as a more luxury pricing but they are rebranding as a luxury line which is why all cabin fares will increase.   But they are still cheaper on a per person per night basis than your ultra luxury brands like RSSC, the new Explora brand, Silverseas etc.

forgot to add Royal have suites just as expensive if not more expensive than Celebrity, and Royal is far from being considered a luxury line

Edited December 31, 2022 by Spurschick

[Spurschick]

9 hours ago, bigbenboys said:

We did one sailing on Azamara and the ship was boring. Every once in a while I look at Silversea. My negatives are that ships are to small and the dress code. Give me Smart Casual attire every night. Maybe MSC Yacht Club, but again the dress code. 

I just stay away from E-Class ships. I enjoy doing glass blowing. More food options on the M and S Class ships in Luminae.

I just booked an Alaska cruise in a CS. Edge was $7936 pp, Solstice $6036 PP. Solstice ship out of Vancouver has a better itinerary. I booked Solstice and I can do glass blowing. 

MSC Yacht club, yes there will be the occasional person really well dressed, but smart casual is all you need. It is the best suite experience we have encountered to date (full disclaimer, trying retreat soon to see how it compares.)

[upwarduk]

11 hours ago, bigbenboys said:

We did one sailing on Azamara

I am thinking about going back to Azamara, as they still have All included.

The TA cruise we did in 2016  rates as one of our best, 4 ports each side of ‘The Pond.’

[Ipeeinthepools]

4 hours ago, Spurschick said:

...

As for Celebrity, yes it will be a big hit, and as for luxury I agree they are pricing themselves as a more luxury pricing but they are rebranding as a luxury line which is why all cabin fares will increase.   But they are still cheaper on a per person per night basis than your ultra luxury brands like RSSC, the new Explora brand, Silverseas etc.

forgot to add Royal have suites just as expensive if not more expensive than Celebrity, and Royal is far from being considered a luxury line

 

Maybe Celebrity's attempt to rebrand themselves as a luxury line will work for the suite guests, but it certainly won't work for the non-suite guests.  Sure, the E-class ships are still the shiny new objects but they really don't offer any additional service or features to the non-suite guest to warrant the higher cost.  In fact many would argue that the E-class ships reduced features for the non-suite guests because they limited access to the limited open deck and forward-facing areas of the ship as well as eliminated true balconies for most balcony cabins.  Celebrity can try to brand themselves as a luxury line but most guests won't see it and eventually won't pay for it.

[bigbenboys]

12 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

There is no dress code in the MSC Yacht Club.  Smart Casual works every day all day, unless you choose to dine in the MDR [and why would you?].  After dinner, no dress code on the ship – and your butler will escort you to the reserved area for the show.  Granted the ship is huge and crowded, but as a Yacht Club guest you never feel the crowding.

I read Gala Night wrong. I can still wear my jeans with no holes. Thanks

[TeeRick]

20 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

We'll see how it works out, but I'm seeing a lot of people moving from Celebrity suites to other lines.  I'm sure the plan is for Celebrity to make a lot of money from the suites, but most of the cabins are still non-suite cabins and they have to make money there.  If Celebrity is charging higher prices for the same product on other lines, eventually the customers will move to the lines with lower prices.

I would agree with you for cruise customers looking for the best price for traditional non-suite cabins as their number 1 overriding criteria.  But from what I've seen here on CC, many customers are not just about lowest price.  Many just prefer Celebrity over other lines even if they pay more.  It is the whole experience which is not at all equivalent across ships and cruise lines.  So price is only one factor.   It tends to be over-emphasized as the bottom line criteria here by some on CC.  It is a factor in a more complex decision.

[TeeRick]

5 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Maybe Celebrity's attempt to rebrand themselves as a luxury line will work for the suite guests, but it certainly won't work for the non-suite guests.  Sure, the E-class ships are still the shiny new objects but they really don't offer any additional service or features to the non-suite guest to warrant the higher cost.  In fact many would argue that the E-class ships reduced features for the non-suite guests because they limited access to the limited open deck and forward-facing areas of the ship as well as eliminated true balconies for most balcony cabins.  Celebrity can try to brand themselves as a luxury line but most guests won't see it and eventually won't pay for it.

Ipee, you make strong general statements and assumptions about "most guests".  And "many would argue".  I think you are representing yourself and your views, which is fine.   But not sure how you come to the conclusions and assumptions for others.  In fact, the cruising data currently says otherwise.  Celebrity ships are sailing near capacity even with very high prices.  Retreat or no Retreat.  Whether we like it or not.

[Ipeeinthepools]

5 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I would agree with you for cruise customers looking for the best price for traditional non-suite cabins as their number 1 overriding criteria.  But from what I've seen here on CC, many customers are not just about lowest price.  Many just prefer Celebrity over other lines even if they pay more.  It is the whole experience which is not at all equivalent across ships and cruise lines.  So price is only one factor.   It tends to be over-emphasized as the bottom line criteria here by some on CC.  It is a factor in a more complex decision.

 

I understand your point, but I'm not sure that the CC customer is the typical Celebrity passenger.  I'll suggest that most passengers would be equally happy on any one of several cruise lines.

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Not every suite guest loves the E class.  Because the Luminae galley is no longer connected to the main galley, you are stuck with the limited menu there [on M- and S-class you can order from the MDR menu].  And the only non-Edgy entertainment is the very limited Retreat.  You either have to jump into Edginess with two feet, or write off E-class. 

I am OK with E-Class (if I have a real balcony).  But I much prefer S-Class.  We go on Equinox in a CS in three weeks.  I know the Retreat is not as nice as E-Class but it will be nice enough for us!  I prefer the smaller (less noisy) Luminae on S-Class and M-Class with the better food menu options as you point out.