Live from the Orion Auckland to Sydney Dec22 - Jan5

[CurlerRob]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:13 PM, Serendiptydesign said:

Hi all since returning home on the 7th January I have spent my time researching and gathering more information regarding the VIKING ORION 12-22-2022. Please keep an eye on the news report out of New Zealand further information regarding the VIKING ORION 12-22-2022 is likely to be released within days. The information has been shared with us  but I am waiting a response from Viking.

 

Can you direct us to the further information you anticipated? 🍺🥌

[katlew]

14 hours ago, Fieldofdreams said:

Kathy - Have you by chance heard of any other Viking ships or other cruise lines being affected by the bio-foul situation since your return? Our cruise to Australia/NZ is coming up in February and I have not heard much recently. I know that the cruise line association and NZ environmental authorities have been meeting but I am curious as to how that has practically played out. Thanks 

Just after us the Regent Explorer had the same issue & had like 10 - 11 days at sea. Passengers were able to get off at Adelaide though & travel from there at their own cost. The Cunard Queen Elizabeth had to miss the Milford Sound and one or two ports about a week ago. I haven’t seen any reports of issues on any other board since, including the Viking boats that are there. Maybe we were the boats the NZ used as a warning for everyone to get in line.

[katlew]

16 hours ago, Fieldofdreams said:

Kathy - Have you by chance heard of any other Viking ships or other cruise lines being affected by the bio-foul situation since your return? Our cruise to Australia/NZ is coming up in February and I have not heard much recently. I know that the cruise line association and NZ environmental authorities have been meeting but I am curious as to how that has practically played out. Thanks 

Well, I just saw that after reaching Auckland last week the Regent Explorer was told the weren’t clean enough. They had to clean again which meant the cruise leaving Auckland missed a few ports & plus the fjord area. They are giving $350 OBC for each missed port from what I understand.

[Fieldofdreams]

2 hours ago, katlew said:

Well, I just saw that after reaching Auckland last week the Regent Explorer was told the weren’t clean enough. They had to clean again which meant the cruise leaving Auckland missed a few ports & plus the fjord area. They are giving $350 OBC for each missed port from what I understand.

Thank you for the updated info. Just spoke with a Viking representative a few hours ago, when asked how Viking is approaching the bio-foul issue for future cruises, the representative really downplayed what happened on your cruise, not sure if this is corporate speak trying to minimize the issue or this particular agent's interpretation. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out with future cruises and commercial shipping.

[katlew]

37 minutes ago, Fieldofdreams said:

Thank you for the updated info. Just spoke with a Viking representative a few hours ago, when asked how Viking is approaching the bio-foul issue for future cruises, the representative really downplayed what happened on your cruise, not sure if this is corporate speak trying to minimize the issue or this particular agent's interpretation. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out with future cruises and commercial shipping.

I also just read that the Azamara Quest cruise leaving on the 21st sent out a letter saying they can’t go to the Sound & one other place well.

[Beanspiller]

It appears Viking knew before embarkation that this cruise was ‘doomed’, but apparently chose not to inform the passengers. Embarkation was on 22 December, Viking received orders on or before 20 December to leave New Zealand waters by 29 December. The bio hazard was suspected on 15 December. It is unlikely that there would not have been daily contact between Viking and NZ Department of Primary Industries on this issue. 
viking also misled the passengers when they initially anounced that anti fouling would take place in the port of Adelaide and they were busy planning shore excursions. They knew Australia doesn’t permit commercial vessels to have anti fouling done in Australian waters, hence it eventually was done just outside the 12 mile zone. 
Not a very good look….

[Hockeyump]

Interesting, what was the source of the information?

[Beanspiller]

9 hours ago, Hockeyump said:

Interesting, what was the source of the information?

An email from an officer of the media liaison unit of the Ministry of Primary Industries to a NZ newspaper, due to a request for info from that newspaper.In the end it wasn't published for whatever reason.

My suspicion is that Viking wanted it to appear as if this was an unexpected event, that happened during the cruise, so they wouldn't have to provide a full refund (as might have been the case in some jurisdictions). I do recall that several passengers I spoke with and who had some knowledge of the 'maritime environment' were very suspicious about the logic in Viking's announcements. Rightly so, as it transpired later on. They not only let their passengers down, but in a sense also the crew which in my view did an admirable job under difficult circumstances.

[LindaS272]

Someone said that someone said but not going to produce the evidence. Pretty poor standard.

[CurlerRob]

16 hours ago, Hockeyump said:

Interesting, what was the source of the information?

 

@Beanspiller's reference sounds much like this link posted earlier: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/481818/algae-ridden-cruise-ship-asked-to-leave-new-zealand-waters 

 

This article references the notation of a problem and the directive to only stop at specific ports, plus leave by a set date, but is far less definitive than what he surmises / assumes regarding prior knowledge and obfuscation. Methinks that I'll wait for more clarity ... 🍺🥌

[Beanspiller]

2 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

 

@Beanspiller's reference sounds much like this link posted earlier: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/481818/algae-ridden-cruise-ship-asked-to-leave-new-zealand-waters 

 

This article references the notation of a problem and the directive to only stop at specific ports, plus leave by a set date, but is far less definitive than what he surmises / assumes regarding prior knowledge and obfuscation. Methinks that I'll wait for more clarity ... 🍺🥌

 

My reference was not to the above link, but to an official email (dated 9 January) from the relevant NZ government authority. Here is the text. I have deleted the recipient as I don't know if that person wants to be mentioned in some bulletin board.

 

From:
MPI Media <media@mpi.govt.nz
>
Sent:
09 January 2023 13:33
To: [deleted]
>
Subject:
RE: [EXTERNAL] - RE: Viking Orion

Kia ora [deleted]
Please see below. If attribution is required, please do so to Paul Hallett, manager environmental health BiosecurityNew Zealand.
Thanks.

MPI Media
A Notice of Direction that biofouling was present and a dive survey required was issued to the agent of the VikingOrion on December 15.
To establish the extent of the biofouling, the dive survey was undertaken in Wellington on/about December 17.
On December 18, Biosecurity New Zealand received images and a report from the divers. While no high-riskorganisms were found, the density of the biofouling meant there was a risk that such organisms could be present.
Another Notice of Direction was issued to the agent on December 20, instructing the vessel to leave New Zealandwaters by 8am on December 29, and that cleaning was required before its next visit to New Zealand.
The vessel operators chose to have its cleaning done off Australia, and left NZ waters on December 26.

 

 

Hope this clarifies. 

[CurlerRob]

6 hours ago, Beanspiller said:

Hope this clarifies. 

 

Thank you for posting the MPI media release (and redacting the recipient) - this is clearly the basis for the media article I referenced, but the actual release adds more insight.

 

It seems certain that either the OP's December 22 cruise, or the following one, was going to be impacted to comply with the NZ directive. With the apparent uncertainties in when/where to do the cleaning experienced by all of the affected cruise lines, the decision on which trip to impact would not have been easy, or obvious.

 

No matter what, it was never going to be a "good look", as you observed. 🍺🥌

[chengkp75]

On 1/19/2023 at 6:23 AM, Beanspiller said:

They knew Australia doesn’t permit commercial vessels to have anti fouling done in Australian waters, hence it eventually was done just outside the 12 mile zone. 

This statement is not correct, here are the Australian guidelines for in-water cleaning in Australian waters:

 

https://www.agriculture.gov.au/sites/default/files/sitecollectiondocuments/animal-plant/pests-diseases/marine-pests/antifouling-consultation/antifouling-guidelines.pdf

[Jim Avery]

Thanks Chief.

That's a better sleep aid than Ambien.  A team of bureaucrats must have made it to retirement with that publication.  It's a wonder anyone wants to own ships these days.  I am glad Torstein does. 🍹

[Serendiptydesign]

A Nz media program Fair Go is looking at doing a program on this issue of Viking are there any NZ or passengers from around the world who are willing to reach out to Fair Go and share their story.

Email: fairgo@tvnz.co.nz

[Pushka]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This statement is not correct, here are the Australian guidelines for in-water cleaning in Australian waters:

 

https://www.agriculture.gov.au/sites/default/files/sitecollectiondocuments/animal-plant/pests-diseases/marine-pests/antifouling-consultation/antifouling-guidelines.pdf

SA was expecting Orion to port stop and I was liaising with the Tourist Authority due to the late schedule change and Viking never ported here. Then I received this email from them:

"Unfortunately, I have now been advised that the Viking Orion will not be porting in Adelaide on the 31^st. I have been advised that Border Force has been unable to assist with the unexpected last minute arrival. "

 

Because Adelaide was an unscheduled arrival with just a couple of days notice, immigration into Australia must be undertaken. Meaning that border control must get involved. This situation of being the first port from an International cruise I believe hasn't occurred before, there is always an eastern or western port in Australia before it gets here. Just not enough notice. 

[chengkp75]

So, you are saying that the ship was not allowed in Australian waters due to Border Force issues, but I was responding to the statement that underwater cleaning was not allowed in Australian waters.  So, the cleaning may have had to be done outside the 12 mile limit, because of border control, not because the cleaning process was not allowed.

[Pushka]

19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, you are saying that the ship was not allowed in Australian waters due to Border Force issues, but I was responding to the statement that underwater cleaning was not allowed in Australian waters.  So, the cleaning may have had to be done outside the 12 mile limit, because of border control, not because the cleaning process was not allowed.

Not necessarily. It could simply have been that border control couldn't get all the manpower organised to process all the passengers and passports as first Australian port - has never happened here before - so two different issues. One is immigration, the other is biosecurity which is a different process entirely. The berthing area at Outer Harbour is a major port for many cargo ships every day. Where maintenance is done. Also the site of Australia's submarine building facility. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Pushka

[Beanspiller]

11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This statement is not correct, here are the Australian guidelines for in-water cleaning in Australian waters:

 

https://www.agriculture.gov.au/sites/default/files/sitecollectiondocuments/animal-plant/pests-diseases/marine-pests/antifouling-consultation/antifouling-guidelines.pdf

 

Perhaps this is a somewhat hasty conclusion from a very convoluted text.  Here is some further info for your consideration:

 

1. see attached guidelines for commercial vessels. Although from 2009, they have not been superseded, as far as I understand. If you have evidence they ARE superseded, please reference, that would be helpful. If anything, rules and restrictions in this area have only become stricter. See chapter 8.

2." Be aware that in-water cleaning requests are unlikely to be approved due to the high biosecurity and environmental risks associated with in-water cleaning and treatment activities."  : from

https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/aircraft-vessels-military/vessels/marine-pest-biosecurity/biofouling/anti-fouling-and-inwater-cleaning-guidelines  This is the situation since November 2022.

3. You will notice from the document you refer to that there is strong cooperation between Australia and New Zealand on this matter. If the ship can't be cleaned in NZ waters, the same will apply in Oz, and vice versa.

3. At the Q&A session on board the Orion the 2IC officer (who appeared very embarrassed) quite clearly said words along the following lines, when asked why the hull cleaning couldn't been done in port: "that can't be done anywhere in Australia'. He was clearly infering that they knew this all along.

 

The above confirms what I have always heard 'on the waterfront' in Australia.

commercial-vessels-biofouling-guidelines.pdf

[Heidi13]

22 hours ago, Beanspiller said:

 

Perhaps this is a somewhat hasty conclusion from a very convoluted text.  Here is some further info for your consideration:

 

1. see attached guidelines for commercial vessels. Although from 2009, they have not been superseded, as far as I understand. If you have evidence they ARE superseded, please reference, that would be helpful. If anything, rules and restrictions in this area have only become stricter. See chapter 8.

2." Be aware that in-water cleaning requests are unlikely to be approved due to the high biosecurity and environmental risks associated with in-water cleaning and treatment activities."  : from

https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/aircraft-vessels-military/vessels/marine-pest-biosecurity/biofouling/anti-fouling-and-inwater-cleaning-guidelines  This is the situation since November 2022.

3. You will notice from the document you refer to that there is strong cooperation between Australia and New Zealand on this matter. If the ship can't be cleaned in NZ waters, the same will apply in Oz, and vice versa.

3. At the Q&A session on board the Orion the 2IC officer (who appeared very embarrassed) quite clearly said words along the following lines, when asked why the hull cleaning couldn't been done in port: "that can't be done anywhere in Australia'. He was clearly infering that they knew this all along.

 

The above confirms what I have always heard 'on the waterfront' in Australia.

commercial-vessels-biofouling-guidelines.pdf 1.33 MB · 3 downloads

 

The document you posted, as you point out, dates from 2009. The document posted by the Chief is dated April 2015, with the scope stating its application to vessels in the marine environment. Since it does NOT specify commercial or private vessels, it is applicable to all vessels in a marine, estuarine and freshwater environment.

 

Therefore, as a Master, I would follow the document the Chief posted that dates from 2015, as the Orion was a vessel operating in the Australian marine environment.

 

Just out of interest, who do you consider as the 2nd IC Officer.

 

 

[PasadenaDave]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:32 AM, katlew said:

Welcome to our family holiday trip to NZ & Aus. We did the Viking extension is Auckland beforehand. The hotel, MSocial, was ver convenient to the boat, just across the street. It was an ok hotel, but very busy with Viking guests especially at arrival tins & breakfast. The city is VERY busy with people getting ready for the holidays & it was hard for folks to get into restaurants without a reservation. Luckily, we had planned ahead since we are a group of 6. Another group of 8 said the couldn’t find a restaurant that could seat them anywhere close.

Viking did offer a 4 hour tour during the extension once we arrived at the hotel, but we had booked our own tours. We did an Aucky Walky city tour which was a lovely 3 hour introduction by a 4th generation Aucklander.

 

Yesterday was embarkation. If you left your luggage outside your room by 7:30am, Viking would take it to the boat for you. They had a bus at 11 for those who didn’t want to walk across the street. We booked a private wine tasting tour in Waiheke Island, so after breakfast at the hotel, we caught a ferry to the island. It was a wonderful sunny day on a gorgeous place! We tasted wine and olive oils & ate a gourmet lunch at Passage Rock winery. We caught the 4:30 ferry back & finally embarked on the ship around 5:00pm. We mainly breezed right through as we were the only ones there! No lines! We had to have our temperature taken, but no Covid tests. We had one issue as we had to show our Australian visas & one person in our group could not get it to load on their phone. They still let him board & he was able to make it work with guest services later. 
 

Things felt a bit chaotic on the boat with people finding their way around. I heard a few people who were missing luggage or had issues with room keys, that type of thing. Our luggage & room were ready & waiting for us. We settled in the Explorers Lounge for a pre-dinner drink & headed for a late dinner in the main restaurant around 8pm. I had heard of many stories on CC about the restaurant service not bring as good as before Covid, but we found our orders & food were all done in a timely manner. Dinner was very good! 
 

We were all exhausted from a day of sun & wine so it was off to bed! We are in Auckland one more day before leaving in the evening. We’ll take the included panoramic tour & then explore on our own.

Thank you for all of your posts from your challenging cruise.  I did follow it at the time but since we booked this same cruise a week ago I have a few questions.  We are doing the same direction getting on the boat December 19.

 

We arrive from Los Angeles the day before and from what I can tell, that will be ample time for Auckland given the proximity of the boat.  Counting the day we arrive, we will have three days there, one night in a hotel and one on the ship.

 

My question is the end in Sydney.  We arrive on New Years Day and leave the ship on the second.  Do you advise one night extra in Sydney or two?  I think we might be able to get an evening flight back to LAX which would allow us a partial day from the ship, the day we get off the ship and a partial day when we fly home.

 

Prior Viking journey's are last year Istanbul to Venice and last month the Nile including Jerusalem and Jordan.

 

Thank you

[katlew]

So, we sailed into Sydney in the morning which was wonderful to watch from the top deck (plus we were happy to be getting into a port!). We had lunch on board & then went for the panoramic tour. It was a nice overview of Sydney by bus where we got off at a park and at Bondi Beach for a bit. Then it was back to the boat for dinner and to pack. We had booked the Sydney extension, so we did not chose to do any evening activities in town. The ship does not dock close to the city center, or at least we didn't. Plus your luggage has to be out and ready to go before bed. 

 

I think if you really want to explore Sydney and the surrounding area it is worth staying a day or two longer. During the first day of extension, we did the Dreamtime walk which was very interesting and still had time to wander around the Rocks, visit the Opera House, and walk through the Botanic Gardens. The second day we booked a private tour of the Blue Mountains. The rest of our party left at that point and my husband and I stayed for another day where we went to Manly Island and explored more of the city. 

[PasadenaDave]

Thanks very much