Advice on Transportation from Vancouver to Seattle... Apparently B2B Hawaii & Alaska Violates Jones Act!

[CruiszBug]

49 minutes ago, Jasukkie said:

Have you considered a one night hotel stay in Vancouver and leaving on the Crown Princess for Alaska the next day?  

We were trying to work with Royal via my TA. Wanted to keep the "money in the family" so to speak. At first glance it seemed like a good solution. I thought between Royal and Celebrity they would help me with a transfer between the two ports. But alas, that didn't happen. Everyone was giving me wrong information about how easy it would be to transfer between Canada Place and Pier 91. Once upon a time, maybe? So we are either staying the night at Pan Pacific and transferring to Pier 91 in Seattle the next morning via rental car. Or we are taking the Amtrak bus from Vancouver to King Street Station in Seattle and staying at a hotel in Pioneer Square for the night . Then maybe Ubering to Pier 91?

[CruiszBug]

14 minutes ago, bigeck said:

I've now changed to Quantum for Alaska. That gives me 4 days to spend in Seattle and Vancouver before I get on Ovation to Hawaii.

When I was doing this, the agent had no clue why.

If they are selling cruises affected with the Pvsa, I think they should have flag it up on the computer or at least give them staff training.

Not everyone is on CC. Although, this his happened to me before, thanks everyone who drew this to my attention

 

You are most welcome! I tried to do the same thing, but my TA cautioned me against it because of all the penalties I would have to pay to Celebrity. I didn't have a whole lot of time to decide because Royal only gave me a few days before intending to cancel BOTH of my cruises!

Edited January 5, 2023 by CruiszBug

[neverlaysup]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:29 AM, Tlbecker1 said:

Have you considered taking Amtrak?  Rent a car? Fly?

Amtrak is currently NOT operating cross border trains.....it totally sucks! If you try to book Amtrak, it will be bus service.

[CruiszBug]

3 minutes ago, neverlaysup said:

Amtrak is currently NOT operating cross border trains.....it totally sucks! If you try to book Amtrak, it will be bus service.

I know.. it totally does! Lol! They do have one of the Cascades trains operating, though. Southbound leaves around 5 PM and arrives at King Street Station at 10 PM... Too much waiting around and the longest trip time of all the choices.

[neverlaysup]

11 minutes ago, CruiszBug said:

I know.. it totally does! Lol! They do have one of the Cascades trains operating, though. Southbound leaves around 5 PM and arrives at King Street Station at 10 PM... Too much waiting around and the longest trip time of all the choices.

I just found the 1 train. That's better than I thought a few minutes ago.

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, Jasukkie said:

Have you considered a one night hotel stay in Vancouver and leaving on the Crown Princess for Alaska the next day? I can't imagine the logistics of moving 20+ bags to Seattle. Do you fly private? I can't imagine that with the airlines either. 

I would second this, if only because Princess does such an amazing job with Alaskan cruises.

[CruiszBug]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

I would second this, if only because Princess does such an amazing job with Alaskan cruises.

Maybe for next time? I am unfortunately locked into my current reservation with Celebrity unless I want to burn the cash I have given them. Plus additional penalties per person. 😳

[CruiszBug]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:54 AM, ccotting said:

This all sounds so complicated to me.... We are doing a back to back starting Vancouver ending Honolulu, with the roundtrip Alaska.   It is with the smaller ship though.  Had you considered that?

 

Not sure the size of the ship matters? 🤔 If it's registered to a foreign country and you are not doing a round-trip to the same port, sounds like you are in the same "boat" as us?

[chengkp75]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:54 AM, ccotting said:

This all sounds so complicated to me.... We are doing a back to back starting Vancouver ending Honolulu, with the roundtrip Alaska.   It is with the smaller ship though.  Had you considered that?

 

What exactly is your itinerary, and what ship?  You may be getting a call in a few months.

[txart]

We used Quick Shuttle (quickcoach.com) in May 2022 Vancouver to Seattle. Worked very well

Edited January 6, 2023 by txart

[DallasGuy75219]

38 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What exactly is your itinerary, and what ship?  You may be getting a call in a few months.

Why? A series of B2Bs that start in Canada and end in the US isn't a PVSA violation. 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

Why? A series of B2Bs that start in Canada and end in the US isn't a PVSA violation. 

It isn't clear to me in what order the cruises are, and where a "round trip Alaska" starts from.  Sorry if I'm a bit dense.

[CruiszBug]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It isn't clear to me in what order the cruises are, and where a "round trip Alaska" starts from.  Sorry if I'm a bit dense.

You, and me both!

[CruiszBug]

35 minutes ago, txart said:

We used Quick Shuttle (quickcoach.com) in May 2022 Vancouver to Seattle. Worked very well

I put in my date and the message is:  "There is no availability or scheduled trips on the date selected."

[crzndeb]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It isn't clear to me in what order the cruises are, and where a "round trip Alaska" starts from.  Sorry if I'm a bit dense.

 

16 minutes ago, CruiszBug said:

You, and me both!

I think since they said a smaller ship, I’m assuming Radiance or Brilliance, which originates in Vancouver, so doesn’t play into PVSA.

[CruiszBug]

1 minute ago, crzndeb said:

 

I think since they said a smaller ship, I’m assuming Radiance or Brilliance, which originates in Vancouver, so doesn’t play into PVSA.

That is probably it!

[ccotting]

3 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

Not sure the size of the ship matters? 🤔 If it's registered to a foreign country and you are not doing a round-trip to the same port, sounds like you are in the same "boat" as us?

We are leaving from Vancouver.  Roundtrip to Alaska from Vancouver on Brilliance then to Hawaii on Brilliance.  As previously mentioned the Jones act looks at start and end port and whether both are US.  So we are free to do the 2 back to back.  I know many enjoy the size of the Quantum but for us we like the ports and Quantum is too big for all the Hawaiian ports.  We like the Radiance class and have had many happy cruises on them including previous to Hawaii.  My feedback to all is to think outside of the US box for your starting port.  

[Jasukkie]

30 minutes ago, ccotting said:

We are leaving from Vancouver.  Roundtrip to Alaska from Vancouver on Brilliance then to Hawaii on Brilliance.  As previously mentioned the Jones act looks at start and end port and whether both are US.  So we are free to do the 2 back to back.  I know many enjoy the size of the Quantum but for us we like the ports and Quantum is too big for all the Hawaiian ports.  We like the Radiance class and have had many happy cruises on them including previous to Hawaii.  My feedback to all is to think outside of the US box for your starting port.  

It honestly never crossed my mind when we booked the second leg from Vancouver to Los Angeles. Hawaii seemed like such a distant port, but it's certainly not a foreign one so that was that. Part of the reason I booked it was the flights from Vancouver to the east coast were so difficult if you wanted a nonstop direct flight. It required a hotel stay and a more expensive flight. I thought why not add on this inexpensive leg and fly direct from LA at a good price? Five more days of cruising, perfect. We got word about two weeks beforehand that we were in violation. We met others on the Hawaii leg who had the same problem. I'm not sure how they can fix the system to not let you book it but it would be nice.

[twangster]

10 hours ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

The cruise lines were lucky to get a waiver in 2021 to do Alaskan cruises without a stop in Canada.  That was the work of Alaska Congresspeople solely to get tourism dollars back flowing into the Alaska cruise ports, not for the benefit of the cruiselines. 

 

Most bills start with one representative submitting them.  It took both houses to pass it.  

 

Hawaii wasn't included in ATRA.  All ATRA did was instruct CBP not to enforce the penalties for breaking the law.  ATRA didn't change the law.   It would be telling police not to issue speeding tickets for two months.  That wouldn't change the speed limit, there would simply be no speeding tickets written.  It's a small miracle ATRA survived without a legal challenge.  Plus ATRA was no use to anyone who sought to do a B2B between Seattle and Hawaii, the subject of this thread.

 

To change the law would require a massive effort and it involves international maritime conventions that make it very difficult to change anything without significant ramifications. 

 

There have been attempts to reform laws related to shipping from both sides of the aisle and every attempt to introduce bills to change either Jones or the PVSA have quickly died.  

 

I stand by my statement, there will no changes to the law anytime soon, cruise lines are not seeking changes and foreign companies carry little weight to lobby for change.  

[DallasGuy75219]

27 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Most bills start with one representative submitting them.  It took both houses to pass it.  

 

Hawaii wasn't included in ATRA.  All ATRA did was instruct CBP not to enforce the penalties for breaking the law.  ATRA didn't change the law.   It would be telling police not to issue speeding tickets for two months.  That wouldn't change the speed limit, there would simply be no speeding tickets written.  It's a small miracle ATRA survived without a legal challenge.  Plus ATRA was no use to anyone who sought to do a B2B between Seattle and Hawaii, the subject of this thread.

 

To change the law would require a massive effort and it involves international maritime conventions that make it very difficult to change anything without significant ramifications. 

 

There have been attempts to reform laws related to shipping from both sides of the aisle and every attempt to introduce bills to change either Jones or the PVSA have quickly died.  

 

I stand by my statement, there will no changes to the law anytime soon, cruise lines are not seeking changes and foreign companies carry little weight to lobby for change.  

I never said anything about Hawaii nor did I say or imply OP's itinerary would have been allowed in 2021. I was simply giving an example of Congress doing something that happened to benefit the cruiselines but not because the cruiselines requested or lobbied for it. I was actually agreeing with your last paragraph.

 

You are taking a simple statement completely out of context and apparently looking for an argument when there's nothing to argue about🙄

[ccotting]

22 hours ago, Jasukkie said:

It honestly never crossed my mind when we booked the second leg from Vancouver to Los Angeles. Hawaii seemed like such a distant port, but it's certainly not a foreign one so that was that. Part of the reason I booked it was the flights from Vancouver to the east coast were so difficult if you wanted a nonstop direct flight. It required a hotel stay and a more expensive flight. I thought why not add on this inexpensive leg and fly direct from LA at a good price? Five more days of cruising, perfect. We got word about two weeks beforehand that we were in violation. We met others on the Hawaii leg who had the same problem. I'm not sure how they can fix the system to not let you book it but it would be nice.

I think the computer system can surely be programmed to not allow the booking.  Never mind the reps, this seems so much a basic.  Such a sin to put so many through this angst and we read about it on cruise critic many times.  Come to Vancouver to start the journey.  Radiance class ships are lovely.   The Ship will have 1 more visit port than Quantum and 1 less tender port due to ship size.  We have done this cruise itinerary many times and actually our best Hawaii cruise ever was on Rhapsody, a vision class but a lot of that was due to a lovely Polynesian group that was booked for the entertainment.  Hula dance every day and music from Hawaii, Samoa, Tahiti.  Fabulous group and the entertainment really made that cruise stand out. I wonder what happened to them given COVID as I have seen no mention on cruisecritic.