Incidents on board and security

[crompton21]

The 1751 Gin act (for example) makes me think that the problem may go back a little further than we might choose to believe.

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, P&O SUE said:

What an awful experience for you Megabear.

I hope it was a one off as we watched the FA cup semi final onboard Britannia with Liverpool fans and the atmosphere was good.The Christmas cruises do seem to attract a new and perhaps different crowd? 

 

The only drunken behaviour I’ve noticed onboard a ship was on Princess! I’m just stating this because it seems to some only P&O have drunks.

 

 

This was our 10th Christmas cruise and never seen anything like this on any others.  I hate to judge the world but I do believe this increase in trouble may be because it's an alcohol problem.  For instance WDW had a strict alcohol procedure, even a ban in the Magic Kingdom, and were obsessively protective of their reputation. I watched a British family unceremoniously thrown out of Epcot on Millennium eve because the woman had collapsed drunk outside the pub in the UK pavilion - it was 12 noon - and the WDW staff were bemused and hadn't been trained what to do.!  Now sadly with the relaxing of Disney's rules on alcohol consumption there are regular fights and drunken scenes there, never mind it being the "Happy Place" filled with families in the quest for the mighty buck alcohol sells and makes lots of money.  I can't help thinking that P&O might end up heading that way.  

 

I revisited Feefo yesterday because these Ventura reports mentioning a stabbing have been nagging at me.  The drunkenness is one thing but the thought of someone actually being stabbed even if it's with a butter knife with no injury scares me.  There are now five separate mentions in reviews mentioning such an incident, however the number which mention the words uncouth, drunk, aggressive, disgusting and vile are by far the majority. Remember these are reviews from a link sent to returning passengers by P&O themselves.  Across the entire fleet looking at just the Christmas cruises only Aurora has no negative reviews with Britannia being unscathed apart from a few mentions of drunkenness,  Arcadia, bless her, seems to being reviewed for falling to pieces in the plumbing department and the remainder look like total disarray with many mentions of fights and unruly behaviour being regularly referred to.  

 

P&O can do plenty to better the food, entertainment, queues and repairing lifts and plumbing but my worry is will they take this behaviour problem into their sights?  Much as I appreciate Moley's very well put reply it does worry me if there has been an escalation of these types of problems because cheap holidays and alcohol may not be a very good fit on a cruise ship.

 

 

 

[paulatsea]

53 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

This was our 10th Christmas cruise and never seen anything like this on any others.  I hate to judge the world but I do believe this increase in trouble may be because it's an alcohol problem.  For instance WDW had a strict alcohol procedure, even a ban in the Magic Kingdom, and were obsessively protective of their reputation. I watched a British family unceremoniously thrown out of Epcot on Millennium eve because the woman had collapsed drunk outside the pub in the UK pavilion - it was 12 noon - and the WDW staff were bemused and hadn't been trained what to do.!  Now sadly with the relaxing of Disney's rules on alcohol consumption there are regular fights and drunken scenes there, never mind it being the "Happy Place" filled with families in the quest for the mighty buck alcohol sells and makes lots of money.  I can't help thinking that P&O might end up heading that way.  

 

I revisited Feefo yesterday because these Ventura reports mentioning a stabbing have been nagging at me.  The drunkenness is one thing but the thought of someone actually being stabbed even if it's with a butter knife with no injury scares me.  There are now five separate mentions in reviews mentioning such an incident, however the number which mention the words uncouth, drunk, aggressive, disgusting and vile are by far the majority. Remember these are reviews from a link sent to returning passengers by P&O themselves.  Across the entire fleet looking at just the Christmas cruises only Aurora has no negative reviews with Britannia being unscathed apart from a few mentions of drunkenness,  Arcadia, bless her, seems to being reviewed for falling to pieces in the plumbing department and the remainder look like total disarray with many mentions of fights and unruly behaviour being regularly referred to.  

 

P&O can do plenty to better the food, entertainment, queues and repairing lifts and plumbing but my worry is will they take this behaviour problem into their sights?  Much as I appreciate Moley's very well put reply it does worry me if there has been an escalation of these types of problems because cheap holidays and alcohol may not be a very good fit on a cruise ship.

 

 

 

Glad I booked my next 2 p&o on Aurora and 1 on Marella explorer 2.

 

If Arcadia is not refurbished and sorted out we will stick with Aurora until it goes. 
 

The feefo reviews make sad reading.

 

 

 

 

[wowzz]

33 minutes ago, paulatsea said:

Glad I booked my next 2 p&o on Aurora and 1 on Marella explorer 2.

No intention of ever cruising with Marella, but aren't they all inclusive with regards to drinks ?

Have you experienced any issues because of that ?

[yorkshirephil]

Just now, wowzz said:

No intention of ever cruising with Marella, but aren't they all inclusive with regards to drinks ?

Have you experienced any issues because of that ?

Marella, or Thompsons (Celebration) as it was called is the only ship I have ever witnessed any aggro on and that was two women scrapping in Hemmingways.

[Neil_c]

On 1/9/2023 at 2:29 AM, Megabear2 said:

I have been reading this evening the latest Feefo reviews for P&O, a large number of which seem to refer to the 35 night Ventura Christmas cruise.  Alarmingly there are several mentions of a stabbing, a missing guest at 5.00am and a person held for possibly grooming children.  There's also a solo lady traveller who claims she was stalked by someone in the cabin opposite.

 

Clearly these reports may be total rubbish - hopefully someone here may be able to throw some light on these things - but I personally am beginning to worry that we are reading more often of violence onboard.  I have explained elsewhere the problems experienced on Britannia by me personally with drunken football fans and the 2.00am call for assistance due to a "guest incident" on Deck 14,  and have today read in the Arvia maiden the situation with the guests in the room above the reviewer smashing up furniture and fighting amongst themselves before an arrest had to be made.

 

If the Feefo comments are true it would appear that at least three of the Christmas cruises had a problem with unruly and seemingly violent passengers.  Whilst P&O are obviously not responsible for individuals' personal behaviour they surely are responsible for the safety of passengers by observing possible sources of trouble and nipping them in the bud.  The problems we encountered and witnessed were clearly fuelled by alcohol and partisan football support.  That being the case are there any rules regarding refusal of alcohol service in the same way as ashore to those who have clearly had too much to drink?  

 

In our incident security did appear when asked but the people causing the nuisance were merely told to tone it down and allowed to carry on drinking.  The 20 or so people who were being intimidated by this crowd were quietly told there were more sears at the other end of the pool deck if we'd like to move.

 

Reading of the Arvia arrest and now these reviews on Feefo I must confess to being a little worried my incident is not unique.  As someone who travels alone a lot I can normally spot potential problems well in advance and avoid them. I had believed that being the case staff onboard would also be taught to be aware.  Am I expecting too much?  In over 50 cruises I've only ever seen one previous incident and now this evening I read of possibly 4 or 5 in one go.

 

 

We were on the Ventura cruise - The "stabbing "incident according to a post on another site from a family member was not a stabbing but a medical incident that escalated due to another family member with ADHD shouting. 

The "Grooming" incident - was an allegation   of inappropriate touching against 2 men 1 of whom was not guilty - according to a post by 1 of the men 

The call for the missing lady at 5am was according to a post from the lady in question a domestic dispute where she went a slept on deck.

There were no incidents of loud drunken behaviour we saw. there was a number of people who seemed to delight in passing on unsubstantiated rumours.  

 

Some people on the cruise seemed to go on with an attitude of not wanting to enjoy themselves but rather moan.  Being a long cruise the average age of the passengers was apparently 75 (seems right). Who were well behaved  (except for the moaning).

[Megabear2]

39 minutes ago, wowzz said:

No intention of ever cruising with Marella, but aren't they all inclusive with regards to drinks ?

Have you experienced any issues because of that ?

I'm not convinced it's alcohol packages causing this, more the very low prices offered to fill up the ships attracting different types of people looking to do something different.  After the pandemic for instance Majorca realised it could do without the AI guests and a lot have put a limit on the amount of alcohol (see below).  Other tourist spots are beginning to follow suit - new rules in Spanish resorts on dress etc.

 

My Celebrity and Princess fly cruises last year were AI but cost a great deal more than their equivalent on Azura.  There was no trouble, yes lots of happy people enjoying their packages (the Celebrity one had no limit restrictions either) but no one falling down drunk or harassing others.  I tend to believe the cost of flying to and joining these cruises was so much higher those looking for a cheap getaway wouldn't have considered them good value.

https://www.hotelmanagement.net/operate/all-inclusive-alcohol-ban-limited#:~:text=The legislation bans happy hours,party boats in designated areas.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Megabear2

[Megabear2]

6 minutes ago, Neil_c said:

We were on the Ventura cruise - The "stabbing "incident according to a post on another site from a family member was not a stabbing but a medical incident that escalated due to another family member with ADHD shouting. 

The "Grooming" incident - was an allegation   of inappropriate touching against 2 men 1 of whom was not guilty - according to a post by 1 of the men 

The call for the missing lady at 5am was according to a post from the lady in question a domestic dispute where she went a slept on deck.

There were no incidents of loud drunken behaviour we saw. there was a number of people who seemed to delight in passing on unsubstantiated rumours.  

 

Some people on the cruise seemed to go on with an attitude of not wanting to enjoy themselves but rather moan.  Being a long cruise the average age of the passengers was apparently 75 (seems right). Who were well behaved  (except for the moaning).

Thank you. I was hoping someone who had been there would comment. 

[Beckett]

I've only cruised with Cunard, P&O, and Princess. 

 

The only incidents I witnessed first- hand have been on P&O sadly:

 

1) Ventura in: A wedding party descended into chaos when the bride and groom started fighting on deck and the mothers-in-law joined in. This is still indelibly printed in my mind - the sight of varicose veins and granny pants rolling around on the floor is hard to erase. All guests were ejected from the ship the next port day. 

 

2) Ventura: Two dads started a fight in a pool area over a lounger which ended up being thrown overboard - both dads were "worse for wear". Both families ejected at the next port.

 

3) Britannia:  There was a particularly obnoxious family of 8 on board. They were truly horrible. Drunk all the time, loud, foul-mouthed and quite scary. I went up on deck quite early one morning and found one of the party (a young-ish lad of about 18), unconscious and covered in vomit. He'd obviously been there all night as was surrounded by empty bottles. I went to get help and left them to it - I just didn't fancy doing CPR on him! The whole group was ejected at the next port, including vomit boy.

 

In all cases P&O dealt with the offenders very swiftly and reassuringly. In all cases alcohol seemed to be the driving influence of outrageous behaviour. 

 

Has unacceptable behaviour become the norm over the last few years? Have we become inured to it? I don't know. What I do feel is old and intolerant and long for the old genteel days!

 

Have good day everyone - it's raining cats and dogs here today.

 

Best wishes. Jane.x

[paulatsea]

54 minutes ago, wowzz said:

No intention of ever cruising with Marella, but aren't they all inclusive with regards to drinks ?

Have you experienced any issues because of that ?

Yes all inclusive - I’ve only been on Marella Explorer 2 which is adults only and it has always been very good.  No problems so far.

Excellent service - checkin and all bars and restaurants and good entertainment.

Great staff. Very friendly and helpful.

Never done a Christmas or New year though.

 

[Bazrat]

1 minute ago, paulatsea said:

Yes all inclusive - I’ve only been on Marella Explorer 2 which is adults only and it has always been very good.  No problems so far.

Excellent service - checkin and all bars and restaurants and good entertainment.

Great staff. Very friendly and helpful.

Never done a Christmas or New year though.

 

We have had the same experience on the same ship, we are very happy to sail with them again.

[Beckett]

Sorry, I forgot to mention MSC in 2021. I tend not to think about MSC if I can help it. 

 

This was a real grooming situation which some of you may remember me posting about; my very young granddaughter was approached by, and asked to meet a barman privately, for a drink, outside his working hours. Fortunately she told me about it and I acted accordingly. Although MSC were not at all helpful whilst we were on board, following an official complaint and investigations at their end after the cruise, they confirmed the perpetrator had been sacked. I was also given a sum of money by way of a voucher to use against a future  cruise. I threw it away.

 

Jane.x

[paulatsea]

15 minutes ago, Beckett said:

I've only cruised with Cunard, P&O, and Princess. 

 

The only incidents I witnessed first- hand have been on P&O sadly:

 

1) Ventura in: A wedding party descended into chaos when the bride and groom started fighting on deck and the mothers-in-law joined in. This is still indelibly printed in my mind - the sight of varicose veins and granny pants rolling around on the floor is hard to erase. All guests were ejected from the ship the next port day. 

 

2) Ventura: Two dads started a fight in a pool area over a lounger which ended up being thrown overboard - both dads were "worse for wear". Both families ejected at the next port.

 

3) Britannia:  There was a particularly obnoxious family of 8 on board. They were truly horrible. Drunk all the time, loud, foul-mouthed and quite scary. I went up on deck quite early one morning and found one of the party (a young-ish lad of about 18), unconscious and covered in vomit. He'd obviously been there all night as was surrounded by empty bottles. I went to get help and left them to it - I just didn't fancy doing CPR on him! The whole group was ejected at the next port, including vomit boy.

 

In all cases P&O dealt with the offenders very swiftly and reassuringly. In all cases alcohol seemed to be the driving influence of outrageous behaviour. 

 

Has unacceptable behaviour become the norm over the last few years? Have we become inured to it? I don't know. What I do feel is old and intolerant and long for the old genteel days!

 

Have good day everyone - it's raining cats and dogs here today.

 

Best wishes. Jane.x

Incredible - the wedding fight !! Great start.

Good to hear they were all ejected.

Edited January 10, 2023 by paulatsea

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, Beckett said:

In all cases P&O dealt with the offenders very swiftly and reassuringly. In all cases alcohol seemed to be the driving influence of outrageous behaviour. 

 

Has unacceptable behaviour become the norm over the last few years? Have we become inured to it? I don't know. What I do feel is old and intolerant and long for the old genteel days!

I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you say unacceptable behaviour has become the norm.  Certain tabloid newspapers carry lots of pictures in a "weekend special" every Monday of the weekend "parting" in our major cities.  There are also after a major event such as the Grand National, cup football matches etc. vivid accounts of similar situations. All of these show people extremely drunk, often collapsed and comatose and in various states of undress.  For newspapers to be bothering printing these there must be an audience.

 

Maybe I've answered my own question: society clearly accepts this behaviour as normal and seeing it on a ship is something I'll have to tolerate if I want to continue to cruise on lines like P&O.  The response of security on the two occasions I encountered problems did not at the time instill me with confidence, more angered me that P&O replied to me that they are not responsible for people's behaviour.

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, paulatsea said:

Incredible - the wedding fight !! Great start.

Good to hear they were all ejected.

Our Azura one years back was the hen/stag party.

[cruising.mark.uk]

6 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you say unacceptable behaviour has become the norm.  Certain tabloid newspapers carry lots of pictures in a "weekend special" every Monday of the weekend "parting" in our major cities.  There are also after a major event such as the Grand National, cup football matches etc. vivid accounts of similar situations. All of these show people extremely drunk, often collapsed and comatose and in various states of undress.  For newspapers to be bothering printing these there must be an audience.

 

Of course, when individuals of what seems to be the primary age demographic that posts on this board were younger, there was never any alcohol-fuelled misbehaviour amongst youngsters at weekends or otherwise.  Neither was there ever any alcohol-related or other hooliganism at football or other sporting events.  And no-one ever misbehaved on 18-30 or other holidays.  It's all the fault of the youth of today (and P&O, apparently)...

[Bazrat]

5 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Of course, when individuals of what seems to be the primary age demographic that posts on this board were younger, there was never any alcohol-fuelled misbehaviour amongst youngsters at weekends or otherwise.  Neither was there ever any alcohol-related or other hooliganism at football or other sporting events.  And no-one ever misbehaved on 18-30 or other holidays.  It's all the fault of the youth of today (and P&O, apparently)...

Sorry getting old had to read your post twice, your sarcasm went over my head 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍

 

 

 

[kruzseeka]

4 minutes ago, paulatsea said:

Yes all inclusive - I’ve only been on Marella Explorer 2 which is adults only and it has always been very good.  No problems so far.

Excellent service - checkin and all bars and restaurants and good entertainment.

Great staff. Very friendly and helpful.

Never done a Christmas or New year though.

 

My experience too - although we've only travelled once since it became AI and like you on an adults only and a Northern Lights cruise which perhaps wouldnt attract the party set.  Not a lot of sitting round the pool on that one!! 

Prior to our move to predominantly P&O, we'd had excellent experiences of Marella.  Superior service and much better entertainment. Our first P&O shocked us at the poor standard and out-put of the Headliners - much better standard now I might say - but at one time there would be 10 different production shows in a 14 night cruise on Marella with their entertainment team doing live sets in the nightclub later at night and sail-a-ways too (not entertainment team miming to pre-recorded stuff). Of course it's a matter of personal preferences whether those things matter to the individual and it may well have changed now (I think there were fewer production shows when we went more recently but far more than P&O).

They were also very port intensive itineraries and for fly cruises the organisation was superb (contrast a really poor experience of arrangements on a Celebrity cruise queuing for over an hour in blazing sun waiting for coaches which we could see lined up ready but not prepared to load passengers for transfer to the ship).   TUI with their own fleet of coaches at arrival ports and own reps made for an efficient process of transfers.

Service was also excellent - with great smiling crew.  Perhaps too friendly for some - but horses for courses.  

We've travelled mainly with P&O for the last ten years or so (just a few with Cunard, Celebrity, NCL) because their offering has suited us and so far we've not decided to jump ship.  Current accounts make interesting (possibly unsettling reading) but time will tell and we'll make our own judgement of how we feel standards/service may have changed though as already discussed that can be influenced by itinerary, relating mainly to a given ship, costs, ship management, crew training - all kinds of issues which may be specific to a particular cruise and therefore possibly not endemic.  Open mind.   

I confess the AI move by Marella is something which I'm wary of - but I wouldn't write them off either - at least for another adults only cruise - and perhaps not Xmas or NY! 

[zap99]

49 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

 After the pandemic for instance Majorca realised it could do without the AI guests and a lot have put a limit on the amount of alcohol (see below).  Other tourist spots are beginning to follow suit - new rules in Spanish resorts on dress etc.

 

 

 

Whoops, just booked a week in Majorca, AI. We are flying club with BA, so should avoid the rif raf. No formal nights.🤣

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Of course, when individuals of what seems to be the primary age demographic that posts on this board were younger, there was never any alcohol-fuelled misbehaviour amongst youngsters at weekends or otherwise.  Neither was there ever any alcohol-related or other hooliganism at football or other sporting events.  And no-one ever misbehaved on 18-30 or other holidays.  It's all the fault of the youth of today (and P&O, apparently)...

Sorry that's complete garbage.  The man that caused my problems was 50 plus and his youngest party member left the scene after being spoken to by security while the older people stayed to antagonize. I'm certainly not judging people on age.

 

 

[doog442]

Its a difficult one but there really needs to be a zero tolerance policy on this sort of behaviour on a ship of all places. One thing that tends to keep things in check is a uniform, it usually turns heads when you see officers mixing on board so this needs to be encouraged by P&0 at potential trigger point times as listed in the thread. Get uniforms down there  mixing and smiling, not too many just enough for the inebriated to see a bit of 'officialdom' and to remind them exactly where they are. 

 

People also need to be fully aware of the consequences of anti social behaviour. However no one likes to see signs that 'it won't be tolerated etc etc' because you then wonder why the signs are up in the first place. 

 

The idea of being ejected at the next port has to be relayed softly, quietly and only as an absolute last resort to certain individuals, however at the same time, like on a plane it also needs to be made common knowledge that if you do  kick off  that's where you will end up.

 

Bar staff also need to be more aware of the state of the people they're serving. If you're on a drinks package they're aware of the amount you've consumed as its limited to 15. I saw an incident on Princess where clearly an old hand behind the bar reminded a chap he was already 7 drinks into his allowance at 11am. I was stood next to him and the reason this was done was because he was already exhibiting early signs of where this might eventually go. It was very well handled. 

[Fionboard]

Have to say the Xmas cruise on Arcadia was lovely and civilized (apart from the toilet  problems, but that's Arcadia!). However, the 5 night New Year cruise was awful. Different demographic, ship packed with noisy drinkers, but never saw any trouble. 

[zap99]

1 hour ago, Neil_c said:

 

The "Grooming" incident - was an allegation   of inappropriate touching against 2 men 1 of whom was not guilty - according to a post by 1 of the men 

 

So only one of them did it. Not really an issue then.🤔

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

No intention of ever cruising with Marella, but aren't they all inclusive with regards to drinks ?

Have you experienced any issues because of that ?

With nearly 60 cruises under my belt almost exactly divided between P&O and Thomson/Marella have never experienced any atrocious behaviour on either, and witnessed just as many drunks on both. Yes Marella are all inclusive with a good basic package and the premium one, everything except bottles of wine etc, currently costs £80 per week. Marella cruises can be expensive though which makes me think perhaps P&O's difficulties lie partly in their very low prices coupled with the  freedom that 'C' 'going away' brings.

 

Actually I have, on my world cruise segment several years ago onboard Aurora there was a drunken,loud idiot in the casino who caused so much hassle that security were called twice. Everyone complained but they did not ban him, apparently because he was losing heavily.

 

Several years ago someone commented that the difference between P&O cruisers and Marella cruisers was P&O were Mail readers and Marella were Mirror readers. Not so sure nowadays though 😁

[paulatsea]

17 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

My experience too - although we've only travelled once since it became AI and like you on an adults only and a Northern Lights cruise which perhaps wouldnt attract the party set.  Not a lot of sitting round the pool on that one!! 

Prior to our move to predominantly P&O, we'd had excellent experiences of Marella.  Superior service and much better entertainment. Our first P&O shocked us at the poor standard and out-put of the Headliners - much better standard now I might say - but at one time there would be 10 different production shows in a 14 night cruise on Marella with their entertainment team doing live sets in the nightclub later at night and sail-a-ways too (not entertainment team miming to pre-recorded stuff). Of course it's a matter of personal preferences whether those things matter to the individual and it may well have changed now (I think there were fewer production shows when we went more recently but far more than P&O).

They were also very port intensive itineraries and for fly cruises the organisation was superb (contrast a really poor experience of arrangements on a Celebrity cruise queuing for over an hour in blazing sun waiting for coaches which we could see lined up ready but not prepared to load passengers for transfer to the ship).   TUI with their own fleet of coaches at arrival ports and own reps made for an efficient process of transfers.

Service was also excellent - with great smiling crew.  Perhaps too friendly for some - but horses for courses.  

We've travelled mainly with P&O for the last ten years or so (just a few with Cunard, Celebrity, NCL) because their offering has suited us and so far we've not decided to jump ship.  Current accounts make interesting (possibly unsettling reading) but time will tell and we'll make our own judgement of how we feel standards/service may have changed though as already discussed that can be influenced by itinerary, relating mainly to a given ship, costs, ship management, crew training - all kinds of issues which may be specific to a particular cruise and therefore possibly not endemic.  Open mind.   

I confess the AI move by Marella is something which I'm wary of - but I wouldn't write them off either - at least for another adults only cruise - and perhaps not Xmas or NY! 

Going in May on Marella Explorer 2 to Croatia Italy and Greece - great itinerary .
Will report back.

 

I wish they did a few ex UK instead of always fly cruises - but like you said TUI are usually pretty good with flights and connections - in my experience anyway.

 

But we did go on one ex uk one when cruising started again - again on Marella Explorer 2.

Newcastle  to Scotland immediately after Scotland allowed ships in again.

It was brilliant - and the excursions were really well organised and top quality.

 

Really nice welcome back from the crew and we were welcomed by pipers on arrival in Dundee.

Edited January 10, 2023 by paulatsea