Cabin changed by P&O - seeking advice

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, Rhuaridh said:

I'm not sure how much you're able to say, but could you possibly give any insight into the best step to take if our TA doesn't get a sufficient response from P&O? We're still waiting to hear back.

Unfortunately, it’s a case of having to slog it out with P&O shoreside customer services, which is amongst the worst customer services team you will ever come across and is in stark contrast to the usually excellent service that we have always had on the ships. Best to write to Paul Ludlow, President P&O cruises at Carnival House. He won’t get to see it, but complaints addressed to him are dealt with by a slightly more senior / competent member of the customer service team. They will either make a paltry offer or no offer. If you reject that and say that you are seeking legal advice they usually up the offer, accompanied with a request to sign an NDA. It shouldn’t have to be like that but, for reasons best known to P&O, it’s the way that they operate. I guess that most people can’t be bothered or just accept the first offer, so it saves them money?
 

I don’t know what deck your original suite was on, but the accessible aft suite is blighted by being just two decks above the Sunset Bar. This presents two problems. Firstly the aft cabins and suites on Iona and Arvia are set well back from the rear of the ship and if you are low down (as this suite is) your outlook is somewhat spoilt by a large canvas canopy over an outside seating area. Secondly, the sunset bar can be a source of noise (especially as they sometimes play music there), including late at night in warmer weather. For these reasons we decided against booking the sole accessible suite. These things may not bother you at all but, if they do, you can use these points to highlight why £50 OBC per person is insufficient compensation compared to your booked suite. 

[Rhuaridh]

5 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Unfortunately, it’s a case of having to slog it out with P&O shoreside customer services, which is amongst the worst customer services team you will ever come across and is in stark contrast to the usually excellent service that we have always had on the ships. Best to write to Paul Ludlow, President P&O cruises at Carnival House. He won’t get to see it, but complaints addressed to him are dealt with by a slightly more senior / competent member of the customer service team. They will either make a paltry offer or no offer. If you reject that and say that you are seeking legal advice they usually up the offer, accompanied with a request to sign an NDA. It shouldn’t have to be like that but, for reasons best known to P&O, it’s the way that they operate. I guess that most people can’t be bothered or just accept the first offer, so it saves them money?
 

I don’t know what deck your original suite was on, but the accessible aft suite is blighted by being just two decks above the Sunset Bar. This presents two problems. Firstly the aft cabins and suites on Iona and Arvia are set well back from the rear of the ship and if you are low down (as this suite is) your outlook is somewhat spoilt by a large canvas canopy over an outside seating area. Secondly, the sunset bar can be a source of noise (especially as they sometimes play music there), including late at night in warmer weather. For these reasons we decided against booking the sole accessible suite. These things may not bother you at all but, if they do, you can use these points to highlight why £50 OBC per person is insufficient compensation compared to your booked suite. 

Thank you, this is great advice. We're still waiting to hear something from our TA, but if the offer is bad or nonexistent, we'll follow the steps you've outlined.

 

We had originally booked on deck 15, so we would have had noise from the infinity pool and surrounding area above us. However, we liked that the overhang from deck 16 provides some shade to the aft suite balconies, which would have allowed us to shelter from the sun but still be outdoors enjoying the views.

[Rupert2251]

On 1/16/2023 at 9:08 PM, Rhuaridh said:

Thank you, this is great advice. We're still waiting to hear something from our TA, but if the offer is bad or nonexistent, we'll follow the steps you've outlined.

 

We had originally booked on deck 15, so we would have had noise from the infinity pool and surrounding area above us. However, we liked that the overhang from deck 16 provides some shade to the aft suite balconies, which would have allowed us to shelter from the sun but still be outdoors enjoying the views.

Have you heard anything yet from your TA?

[molecrochip]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:02 PM, Rhuaridh said:

We were similarly surprised to be offered the accessible suite. We're also wondering, if we choose that, whether there's a risk of being bumped again in case someone actually requires an accessible room.

 

I'm not sure how much you're able to say, but could you possibly give any insight into the best step to take if our TA doesn't get a sufficient response from P&O? We're still waiting to hear back.

They are no supposed to - however this is not the first time I have heard them doing so for operational reasons. With no disrespect to @Rhuaridh, its frustrating as there are so few accessible cabins on these ships.

 

In answer to your question, if you accept that cabin for an operational swap, they will then just show as no accessible suites available. So you should not get bumped again.

[majortom10]

Why do P&O just treat their customers with respect and like the adults that they are instead of hiding behind corporate excuses i.e. operational reasons. Dont they realise that they are upsetting their loyal customers and doing the P&O brand damage. The speech given by Paul Ludlow trying to justify the disaster of the "maiden" voyage was laughable and he certainly didnt convince anyone with his actions.

[molecrochip]

2 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Why do P&O just treat their customers with respect and like the adults that they are instead of hiding behind corporate excuses i.e. operational reasons. Dont they realise that they are upsetting their loyal customers and doing the P&O brand damage. The speech given by Paul Ludlow trying to justify the disaster of the "maiden" voyage was laughable and he certainly didnt convince anyone with his actions.

Often it is not appropriate to explain why a cabin is out of use/changed. People blow simple reasons up to be major problems and then tell people and it just explodes.

 

I was on an excursion once with a couple whilst their balcony door was repaired. By the end of this excursion, two other couples were off to check their balcony door, for the same problem and a third couple were straight off to reception to demand that someone 'senior' check it. All of them agreed that they should be entitled to compensation if they could find the same problem. The original problem - the door had been broken when the guest, by the own admission, tried to force the door to stay open!

 

I don't doubt that Operational reasons cover a multitude of sins, and during Covid it was mismanaged, but operational changes are really in frequent.

 

Maybe, cruise lines should follow the hotel example and just sell grades with actual cabin numbers allocated on arrival.

 

 

As for the maidne... its funny... I'd say that from what i've read 'disaster' is a bit strong. There are some very balanced reviews out there which don't fall remotely into this category (except for maybe Christmas dinner).

 

The problem with maidens is that ships are never 100% finished because in life a ship is never 100% perfect. There is always something that needs to be done. Those who travel on maidens regularly should know this and accordingly should factor that into their decision about whether to book the next one. Its the same as the first night of a theatre show - very rarely does it run 100% perfectly. Its a straight decision... first, or finished?

 

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

Those who travel on maidens regularly should know this and accordingly should factor that into their decision about whether to book the next one. Its the same as the first night of a theatre show - very rarely does it run 100% perfectly. Its a straight decision... first, or finished?

Fine in normality but those on this "maiden" didn't book it as such and had expected shakedown cruises and the advertised maiden.  No matter what spin is put on it, these people on the Christmas cruise went to sea on an ill prepared ship with what sounds like a new crew not fully trained.  Absolutely no excuse no matter how many say it was okay.

[majortom10]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Often it is not appropriate to explain why a cabin is out of use/changed. People blow simple reasons up to be major problems and then tell people and it just explodes.

 

I was on an excursion once with a couple whilst their balcony door was repaired. By the end of this excursion, two other couples were off to check their balcony door, for the same problem and a third couple were straight off to reception to demand that someone 'senior' check it. All of them agreed that they should be entitled to compensation if they could find the same problem. The original problem - the door had been broken when the guest, by the own admission, tried to force the door to stay open!

 

I don't doubt that Operational reasons cover a multitude of sins, and during Covid it was mismanaged, but operational changes are really in frequent.

 

Maybe, cruise lines should follow the hotel example and just sell grades with actual cabin numbers allocated on arrival.

 

 

As for the maidne... its funny... I'd say that from what i've read 'disaster' is a bit strong. There are some very balanced reviews out there which don't fall remotely into this category (except for maybe Christmas dinner).

 

The problem with maidens is that ships are never 100% finished because in life a ship is never 100% perfect. There is always something that needs to be done. Those who travel on maidens regularly should know this and accordingly should factor that into their decision about whether to book the next one. Its the same as the first night of a theatre show - very rarely does it run 100% perfectly. Its a straight decision... first, or finished?

 

Having done every maiden cruise from Aurora up to Britannia I have never encountered such issues as Arvia did when she was clearly not ready and understaffed. But there is no excuse for the nonsense that Paul Ludlow came out with and saying 99-9% having a fantastic time was totally wrong and made him look foolish.

 

Before anyone jumps and states that Aurora's maiden voyage was cancelled and she had to return to Southampton P&O in their wisdom sold the first 4 cruises on Aurora as Maidens lol. We were not on the first but on one of the others were there were no issues.

 

[Selbourne]

4 hours ago, molecrochip said:

The problem with maidens is that ships are never 100% finished because in life a ship is never 100% perfect. There is always something that needs to be done. Those who travel on maidens regularly should know this and accordingly should factor that into their decision about whether to book the next one. It’s the same as the first night of a theatre show - very rarely does it run 100% perfectly. It’s a straight decision... first, or finished?

 

If, as you seem to be suggesting, it is known that a P&O ship will not be finished and ready for its maiden voyage, why do they carry a price premium? If that’s the case, surely they should be offered to regulars at a hefty discount to ‘road test’ it, making it clear that it’s a learning exercise. Expecting passengers to pay a premium for what is effectively a ‘shake down cruise’ seems contradictory. With all due respect, this sounds more like making implausible excuses after the event. 
 

We were booked on the very original Iona maiden cruise, cancelled due to Covid. At no stage was it made clear to us that the cruise might be a learning exercise. We rightly expected the finished product. P&O seem to be overlooking one of the golden rules of business - that you only get one chance to make a first impression. 

[carlanthony24]

Not just P&O but other cruise lines do the same thing sell a maiden cruise and find stuff not finished etc. 
 

You can go on an aircraft and you may find all the cabin crew onboard are new to it and have only received training on the ground once you board the aircraft that is where the training really kicks in but they end up running quite a few short flights to get crew familiarised even then it’s not necessarily the service you would usually expect and can still pay a premium price

Edited January 22, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Selbourne]

16 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

You can go on an aircraft and you may find all the cabin crew onboard are new to it and have only received training on the ground once you board the aircraft that is where the training really kicks in but they end up running quite a few short flights to get crew familiarised even then it’s not necessarily the service you would usually expect and can still pay a premium price

I have no knowledge of the airline industry, but find it hard to believe (and quite frightening if true) that an entire cabin crew on a plane could be brand new, given that they are safety critical roles. If it was a maiden flight of a brand new aircraft there’s no way that they’d all be newbies on their first flight! And we are talking about a maiden cruise with over 1,000 crew, of which many hundreds will have served on other ships, so not really a relevant comparison anyway!

[Rupert2251]

The OP just wants to know what the "operational reasons" are! It has nothing to do with a maiden voyage. 

[carlanthony24]

14 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I have no knowledge of the airline industry, but find it hard to believe (and quite frightening if true) that an entire cabin crew on a plane could be brand new, given that they are safety critical roles. If it was a maiden flight of a brand new aircraft there’s no way that they’d all be newbies on their first flight! And we are talking about a maiden cruise with over 1,000 crew, of which many hundreds will have served on other ships, so not really a relevant comparison anyway!

British Airways for instance when the A380 came into use they learned about it on the ground safety wise, service etc but the real practice is once you are onboard. Same with Virgin Atlantic on the A350. No matter how much you are trained on the ground. It doesn’t prepare you fully till you are onboard. High turn over of staff you could potentially have only one full fledged crew member who knows the in and out of the aircraft besides the pilots.

Edited January 22, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Rhuaridh]

12 hours ago, Rupert2251 said:

Have you heard anything yet from your TA?

We've been assigned a forward suite on deck 15 as this was apparently the only one left. To their credit, our TA worked hard to make things right on their end, but we've had no further explanation from P&O about why our original cabin was revoked. We're still quite disappointed, as it won't be the same experience we had planned and the outside space won't be as usable, but we're not sure what else to do, so we're trying to not let it ruin the holiday.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Rhuaridh

[Selbourne]

10 hours ago, Rhuaridh said:

We've been assigned a forward suite on deck 15 as this was apparently the only one left. To their credit, our TA worked hard to make things right on their end, but we've had no further explanation from P&O about why our original cabin was revoked. We're still quite disappointed, as it won't be the same experience we had planned and the outside space won't be as usable, but we're not sure what else to do, so we're trying to not let it ruin the holiday.

I can understand your disappointment. A suite is a big financial commitment and you shouldn’t have to feel that you are making a compromise, especially if the compensation for being bumped from your chosen suite is negligible. 
 

The suite that you have been offered is a lower grade suite than the one you booked. On that basis,  your cruise fare should be reduced, on top of any compensation offered. Hopefully you have also been made aware that the balcony is steel fronted (rather than glass) which will affect the outlook and the balcony cannot be used in strong winds. It is also directly underneath the bridge. Hopefully, not only has your TA alerted you to these points, but they should have used them to negotiate a better compensation deal for you.

 

If you are deciding to go ahead then I’m sure that you will have a very enjoyable cruise. We have had two forward suites on Britannia (admittedly with glass fronted balconies to the side) and both times we enjoyed the suite far more than we did the one aft suite that we had on the same ship (which we had multiple problems with and wouldn’t book again). Forward suites are blissfully quiet (important on a busy ship) and also provide a unique perspective on where you are going, rather than where you have been! We would much prefer a forward suite over a more expensive suite on the side of the ship, which affords no special view and can suffer from noise from passengers passing your suite at night. You will also be the first to board the ship (helpful for securing those critical dining reservations) and will be able to enjoy a relaxing breakfast in Epicurean (assuming that’s where suite passengers dine on Arvia). Enjoy!

[pete14]

12 hours ago, Selbourne said:

 

We were booked on the very original Iona maiden cruise, cancelled due to Covid. At no stage was it made clear to us that the cruise might be a learning exercise. We rightly expected the finished product. P&O seem to be overlooking one of the golden rules of business - that you only get one chance to make a first impression. 

We were also booked on the Iona maiden that was cancelled due to Covid. My memory is that the prices for that maiden were very reasonable indeed. The Arvia maiden was noticeably much more expensive when bookings opened.

[molecrochip]

Deck 15 balcony - suggest you get your TA to ask for Retreat access due to the issues. This should make up for the lack of deck space. I know its not ideal but better than nothing.

[Rhuaridh]

On 1/23/2023 at 8:45 PM, molecrochip said:

Deck 15 balcony - suggest you get your TA to ask for Retreat access due to the issues. This should make up for the lack of deck space. I know its not ideal but better than nothing.

We had the same thought as you and asked this but it was apparently a nonstarter.

[Rupert2251]

On 1/14/2023 at 12:18 PM, Rhuaridh said:

We disembark on the 11th, but we did have a similar thought after spotting the date of the ceremony. We really hope this isn't the reason.

Hope you had a wonderful time and are now back home safe and sound. Did you ever find out why your suite had been moved? Just curious because I think we have the same suite 🤔

[zap99]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:26 PM, Selbourne said:

Unfortunately, it’s a case of having to slog it out with P&O shoreside customer services, which is amongst the worst customer services team you will ever come across

Try British Gas. They have a system that seems to be designed to prevent customers finding a phone number that works. I have spoken to P&O customer services folk at Southampton a few times and have always found them to be helpful.

[Selbourne]

8 hours ago, zap99 said:

Try British Gas. They have a system that seems to be designed to prevent customers finding a phone number that works. I have spoken to P&O customer services folk at Southampton a few times and have always found them to be helpful.

The selective quote (from 2 months ago) was in direct response to a question about escalating a legitimate complaint when P&O aren’t being at all helpful. To be clear, I’m not talking about the staff who deal with bookings and general enquiries, all of whom I have always found to be knowledgable and extremely helpful. I’m talking about those who deal with complaints (different department).
 

I don’t know if you’ve ever had cause to raise a complaint formally, but unfortunately we have had to regarding just 2 of our 20 or so P&O cruises. On both occasions we were met with intransigence and sheer unhelpfulness. Issues that a sensible company would empower a middle manager to deal with are only resolved with P&O when you contact the CEO, threaten legal action, reject the first few paltry offers and then have to sign a non-disclosure agreement to get proper redress. It’s a nonsense way to run a customer service department. Hence my comment, which I stand by. 

[daiB]

4 hours ago, Selbourne said:

The selective quote (from 2 months ago) was in direct response to a question about escalating a legitimate complaint when P&O aren’t being at all helpful. To be clear, I’m not talking about the staff who deal with bookings and general enquiries, all of whom I have always found to be knowledgable and extremely helpful. I’m talking about those who deal with complaints (different department).
 

I don’t know if you’ve ever had cause to raise a complaint formally, but unfortunately we have had to regarding just 2 of our 20 or so P&O cruises. On both occasions we were met with intransigence and sheer unhelpfulness. Issues that a sensible company would empower a middle manager to deal with are only resolved with P&O when you contact the CEO, threaten legal action, reject the first few paltry offers and then have to sign a non-disclosure agreement to get proper redress. It’s a nonsense way to run a customer service department. Hence my comment, which I stand by. 

Selbourne,

 

Just read the thread and I am interested in the fact that they were offered an accessible cabin. I did notice that it was on Arvia in the Caribbean.I have found in the past that many6 disabled passengers , do not fly for one reason or another and that all of the times it has been reported that an accessible has been given to a non disabled person hays been on a fly cruise.

[Selbourne]

7 hours ago, daiB said:

Selbourne,

 

Just read the thread and I am interested in the fact that they were offered an accessible cabin. I did notice that it was on Arvia in the Caribbean.I have found in the past that many6 disabled passengers , do not fly for one reason or another and that all of the times it has been reported that an accessible has been given to a non disabled person hays been on a fly cruise.

That’s a good point Dai. Certainly in our case we don’t fly. My wife is terrified that her wheelchair would get damaged by heavy handed baggage handlers but, more importantly, she couldn’t use the toilets on an aircraft. It’s a great shame, as it would open up a lot more opportunities with fly cruises but, having done a transatlantic, we also know that 3 sea days in a row is our maximum.

[Host Sharon]

I see another captain (and his wife) have been flown out to Arvia to man the bridge while Arvia's captains are at the beach naming. I wonder if the aft suite was needed for their accommodation?

[Josy1953]

28 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

I see another captain (and his wife) have been flown out to Arvia to man the bridge while Arvia's captains are at the beach naming. I wonder if the aft suite was needed for their accommodation?

 If that is the reason I think that it shows a lack of respect for customers who have paid a deposit for their preferred cabin location on the ship.