Muster drills to return to pre-Covid style

[UPNYGuy]

41 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Ships that have outdoor muster stations will never move them indoors, since the SOLAS requirement is to have the muster station "as close as practicable" to the boats.  If there was room before to muster outdoors, there will always be room to muster outdoors, until the ship is scrapped.

this one makes sense….

 

I think you may have answered this on another thread, but I am curious about it. 
 

How is emergency evacuation tested on ship design? I am assuming it is tested in development with CAD, and also physically tested with volunteers (like an aircraft). Or is this not the case. 

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, UPNYGuy said:

How is emergency evacuation tested on ship design? I am assuming it is tested in development with CAD, and also physically tested with volunteers (like an aircraft). Or is this not the case. 

They use crowd and crisis management algorithms to model the evacuation.  Lifeboats and rafts are tested with personnel at time of approval for the type of equipment.  As for space requirements for muster locations, they use a "standard sized" individual, and see how many they can cram in, and still allow for foot traffic.  As with lifeboats, where the "standard" person is 82.5kg (181 lbs), this does not reflect today's US passengers.

[carol54]

I heard that the muster drill does not begin until every person has been carded in.  This could mean if someone is taking a nap, you would have to stay there until that person shows up?  Anyone else hear this?

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, carol54 said:

I heard that the muster drill does not begin until every person has been carded in.  This could mean if someone is taking a nap, you would have to stay there until that person shows up?  Anyone else hear this?

The muster drill starts when the signal (7 short and one long blast) sounds, and everyone starts to the muster stations.  It should not end until everyone is accounted for, since that is the purpose of the drill.

[vacation44]

6 minutes ago, carol54 said:

I heard that the muster drill does not begin until every person has been carded in.  This could mean if someone is taking a nap, you would have to stay there until that person shows up?  Anyone else hear this?

I once missed the muster drill because I was in the medical office.   There was a letter waiting for me back in my cabin to report to a separate muster drill the next day.   There was a good amount of passengers at that muster drill.  The majority of them just decided upon themselves that they did not have to go to the original one.  

[carol54]

6 minutes ago, vacation44 said:

I once missed the muster drill because I was in the medical office.   There was a letter waiting for me back in my cabin to report to a separate muster drill the next day.   There was a good amount of passengers at that muster drill.  The majority of them just decided upon themselves that they did not have to go to the original one.  

Yes.  That’s how I remember NCL treating  no-shows at muster.  But I read that now they don’t start until every passenger has been accounted for at the first muster.

[carol54]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The muster drill starts when the signal (7 short and one long blast) sounds, and everyone starts to the muster stations.  It should not end until everyone is accounted for, since that is the purpose of the drill.

I agree.  But there have always been people who don’t show.  In the past, they would get a letter stating they MYST show for the “make-up” muster at another time or could be thrown off ship or perhaps their card would be frozen.  Now I have heard that the muster does not begin until everyone is accounted for at the first muster.  I never miss muster but would be annoyed to have to sit there for an extended length of time due to the inconsideration of other passengers.

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, carol54 said:

Now I have heard that the muster does not begin until everyone is accounted for at the first muster.

If you mean they don't start the spiel until everyone is checked in, that is really not the start of the drill.  And, truthfully, all of the spiel they give at the muster is filler, important surely, but really filler to kill time until the evacuation search is completed.  And, it does not really matter whether the search finds a straggler or not, it takes time.  That is what really takes the time, not the stragglers.

[carol54]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

If you mean they don't start the spiel until everyone is checked in, that is really not the start of the drill.  And, truthfully, all of the spiel they give at the muster is filler, important surely, but really filler to kill time until the evacuation search is completed.  And, it does not really matter whether the search finds a straggler or not, it takes time.  That is what really takes the time, not the stragglers.

 

[carol54]

Just now, carol54 said:

 

In the past, anyone who did not show up for the muster drill had to participate at a future time.  I’m asking if that policy has been eliminated and now until everyone shows up it’s not over.  I have cruised many times but not recently.  I have participated in outdoor and indoor muster drills.  The indoor drills that I have attended required that you report to your assigned station and then crew members and a large screen video showed how to wear the life vest.

[Turtles06]

We boarded the Gem this morning. In about 15 minutes, we’re about to have the pre-pandemic muster drills in the inside muster stations. 
 

Off we go to the Stardust Theatre. … 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Turtles06

[Turtles06]

So the ship wide, in-person muster drill that we had this afternoon on the Gem was a cluster bomb imho. At 3pm, the CD announced that there would be a muster drill at 3:30 (and this was in the Daily as well). She repeated this during the next half hour.
 

Our muster station was in the Stardust Theatre, and as we’ve always done for muster drills, we arrived about ten minutes early so we could get seated. So did many hundreds of others (also typical). However, the crew did not open the doors to the Theatre until 3:30 (that’s never been the case before), by which time there were huge lines and crowds on both sides of the ship.
 

When the doors opened, it took a really long time for folks to get in and seated, a problem exacerbated by the fact that crew had told some folks while they were waiting in line (including us) that our numbered muster station within the Theatre was on one side of the ship when in fact it was on the other. This led to a bunch of folks entering the Theatre on one side and then being directed through entire rows of seats to the other. 
 

At some point, while people were still filing in, and amidst the loud din of humanity in the Theatre, the CD starting making the safety announcements, which could not be heard. (That is typical on NCL and I commented about that earlier in this thread.)

 

The crew member responsible for our numbered muster station demonstrated how to put on a life jacket, though what he was saying could not be heard. (The video that folks have to watch for check in was more useful.)

 

About the only really useful thing of the entire drill was learning where our muster station was, which was also the case for the past year or so when you boarded and had to report there, just not as part of a ship wide drill. NCL needs to do a better job with these in-person drills. Most of the problems today existed before covid. 

 

 

[farmecologist]

8 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

So the ship wide, in-person muster drill that we had this afternoon on the Gem was a cluster bomb imho. At 3pm, the CD announced that there would be a muster drill at 3:30 (and this was in the Daily as well). She repeated this during the next half hour.
 

Our muster station was in the Stardust Theatre, and as we’ve always done for muster drills, we arrived about ten minutes early so we could get seated. So did many hundreds of others (also typical). However, the crew did not open the doors to the Theatre until 3:30 (that’s never been the case before), by which time there were huge lines and crowds on both sides of the ship.
 

When the doors opened, it took a really long time for folks to get in and seated, a problem exacerbated by the fact that crew had told some folks while they were waiting in line (including us) that our numbered muster station within the Theatre was on one side of the ship when in fact it was on the other. This led to a bunch of folks entering the Theatre on one side and then being directed through entire rows of seats to the other. 
 

At some point, while people were still filing in, and amidst the loud din of humanity in the Theatre, the CD starting making the safety announcements, which could not be heard. (That is typical on NCL and I commented about that earlier in this thread.)

 

The crew member responsible for our numbered muster station demonstrated how to put on a life jacket, though what he was saying could not be heard. (The video that folks have to watch for check in was more useful.)

 

About the only really useful thing of the entire drill was learning where our muster station was, which was also the case for the past year or so when you boarded and had to report there, just not as part of a ship wide drill. NCL needs to do a better job with these in-person drills. Most of the problems today existed before covid. 

 

 

 

Wow...not sure I'm ready yet to be herded shoulder to shoulder like I remember during the pre-pandemic days.  Yikes..

 

 

[Turtles06]

7 minutes ago, farmecologist said:

 

Wow...not sure I'm ready yet to be herded shoulder to shoulder like I remember during the pre-pandemic days.  Yikes..

 

 

That too. I was already taken to task earlier in the thread for bringing that up. 

[CruizinSusan70]

On 1/24/2023 at 7:37 AM, wolft927 said:

 I understand drills stink, but this is a mandatory drill that will never ever go away. I will deal with this and will never let it bother me one bit

Speak for yourself.  Having gone on 12 cruises post Covid, the new modern way of doing muster was a breeze and a joy compared to the indoor method and substantially better than the old outdoor method.  It became a problem because too many people drug their feet and delayed the time to actually watch a video and go to their muster station for a minute. And thus the cruise directors had to keep reminding people over and over again.  Heard it on NCL, RCI, and Carnival.

Now, it's back to the whole half hour plus process and once you're released taking forever to get an elevator to where ever you're going next.  This process is even longer because of non-empathetic people not letting those in wheelchairs or scooters access to elevators.  Because, after all, it's been a half an hour since their last drink and they need to get to a bar ASAP.

[RocketMan275]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:37 AM, wolft927 said:

You say no good reason? Well believe the folks that were on the Costa Concordia would disagree. Also Covid Spreader? Its ok to be jammed together for dinner, shows, lounges for entertainment for hours on end, but 15 to 30 minutes to complete a mandatory safety briefing is where you draw the line regarding covid spreaders? I understand drills stink, but this is a mandatory drill that will never ever go away. I will deal with this and will never let it bother me one bit

If it's mandatory, why is carnaval continuing witht he emuster drill?  "Meanwhile, it was only days ago that Carnival Cruise Line’s brand ambassador, John Heald, reported that the line he represents plans to continue with the e-muster drills."

[cruiseny4life]

15 hours ago, farmecologist said:

 

Wow...not sure I'm ready yet to be herded shoulder to shoulder like I remember during the pre-pandemic days.  Yikes..

 

 

You have loads of opportunity to be herded on a cruise. Don't worry, it won't be your first, or last crowd on any upcoming cruises. Take a mask and wear it if you're concerned. 

 

Not saying I agree, or disagree with the muster drill. Just saying if you're worried about being shoulder to shoulder with other people, then perhaps you should either 1) not be cruising yet, 2) select a super fancy schmancy small ship cruise. 

[wolft927]

39 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If it's mandatory, why is carnaval continuing witht he emuster drill?  "Meanwhile, it was only days ago that Carnival Cruise Line’s brand ambassador, John Heald, reported that the line he represents plans to continue with the e-muster drills."

We will see...so I guess Disney and NCL started. Of and how many times had John Herald went online preaching nothing was going to change, and then BAM! changed. Anyways, pretty tired of this thread...don't want to do the in person boat drill, cruise another line or simply don't cruise at all. 

[BirdTravels]

16 hours ago, Turtles06 said:

About the only really useful thing of the entire drill was learning where our muster station was, which was also the case for the past year or so when you boarded and had to report there, just not as part of a ship wide drill. NCL needs to do a better job with these in-person drills. Most of the problems today existed before covid. 

To a large extent, the eMuster did not help people understand where to go for an emergency. It was just some random person in a hallway scanning cards. In our case, we have mustered in the theater a lot since the restart and it was literally someone just inside the gangway entrance scanning cards. The majority of people getting scanned would not remember where that was after their first drink. 

 

To your very point, having to go to your actual muster stations and section (left side of theater versus right side) helped you understand where to really go in the case of an emergency. 

 

And the drill simulates what you will encounter during a real emergency. I don't recall very many true abandon ships. But there have been numerous emergencies where passengers have been mustered and sit at their muster stations for a [long] while until the emergency is resolved. 

[RocketMan275]

16 minutes ago, wolft927 said:

We will see...so I guess Disney and NCL started. Of and how many times had John Herald went online preaching nothing was going to change, and then BAM! changed. Anyways, pretty tired of this thread...don't want to do the in person boat drill, cruise another line or simply don't cruise at all. 

Or complain enough to NCL to get them to change.

[wolft927]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Or complain enough to NCL to get them to change.

You could try, but not sure it will work. But good luck

[laudergayle]

On 1/24/2023 at 1:48 PM, chengkp75 said:

If you mean they don't start the spiel until everyone is checked in, that is really not the start of the drill.  And, truthfully, all of the spiel they give at the muster is filler, important surely, but really filler to kill time until the evacuation search is completed.  And, it does not really matter whether the search finds a straggler or not, it takes time.  That is what really takes the time, not the stragglers.

That’s interesting information.  Thank you.  I would imagine that this process will take more time now with staff reductions.  Maybe I’ll need to bring cookies from the buffet🤣 (sorry to be flippant on your informative post).

[CJANDH]

Interesting article in Street.com suggesting that Celebrity may have modified the muster protocol in a way that solves the problem of lack of attention. See link below:

 

https://www.thestreet.com/travel/royal-caribbean-has-a-passenger-friendly-solution-to-muster-problem?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

Or see transcript attached.

Celebrity Muster.docx

[chengkp75]

39 minutes ago, CJANDH said:

Interesting article in Street.com suggesting that Celebrity may have modified the muster protocol in a way that solves the problem of lack of attention. See link below:

 

https://www.thestreet.com/travel/royal-caribbean-has-a-passenger-friendly-solution-to-muster-problem?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

Or see transcript attached.

Celebrity Muster.docx 13.31 kB · 1 download

As noted in the other thread, it is up to the IMO to determine whether the e-muster stays or goes, and the "lack of attention" is not going to be their primary concern.

[TheAdventureSeeker]

What a mess this thing is back! Last time I was shoved, pushed, there was a guy breathing so hard on me like he lacked oxygen and started making noises like he was about to pass out and really felt like a farm animal! It's so dumb that instead of NCL moving forward in life and into the future they are going right back to the past! I loved the e-muster. While in check-in I watched my video, went straight to my muster station, the nice people asked me if I had any questions and that's it I enjoyed my day.

 

The person/people that brought this back should get a life and relived from their duties working at NCL. Somehow other cruise lines have no problem with e-muster. We should have a choice of doing e-muster or the regular one. The people that don't follow the rules should be punished not all of us into this crazy farm herding thing.