Comparing our last MSC cruise to our live NCL one now.

[insidecabin]

31 minutes ago, styles27 said:

Thank you @Markanddonna and @Morgsmom I appreciate your support. 
 

 

For those saying it’s not a fair comparison who do you consider MSC’s competition?

 

 

I think they have different targets depending where they are sailing.

 

Take Virtuosa

 

UK bookings come with service included and the drinks promotion is premium Extra at reasonable rate on many cruises.

 

For UK passenger the primary target market is no fly(mainly P&O), families(free kids), solos(20% extra).

 

winter Northern Europe 7n round trips.

Been very successful 2 winters(no one else does it in for the UK), attracting lots of cruisers with competitive prices and higher new to cruising rates than any other line they claimed 50% last year uk long term average was 30%.

 

For the Germans on the same route I suspect it is Aida that do similar cruises in the winter.

 

Virtuosa in the summer with £ on board no added gratuities and primarily single embarkation port.

P&O main target with any of the others that do Norway, canaries and the med inc. US lines that come to the UK. 

[styles27]

1 hour ago, insidecabin said:

I think they have different targets depending where they are sailing.

 

Take Virtuosa

 

UK bookings come with service included and the drinks promotion is premium Extra at reasonable rate on many cruises.

 

For UK passenger the primary target market is no fly(mainly P&O), families(free kids), solos(20% extra).

 

winter Northern Europe 7n round trips.

Been very successful 2 winters(no one else does it in for the UK), attracting lots of cruisers with competitive prices and higher new to cruising rates than any other line they claimed 50% last year uk long term average was 30%.

 

For the Germans on the same route I suspect it is Aida that do similar cruises in the winter.

 

Virtuosa in the summer with £ on board no added gratuities and primarily single embarkation port.

P&O main target with any of the others that do Norway, canaries and the med inc. US lines that come to the UK. 

Agree about the different targets depending on region. Here in the states I consider their competition to be RCCL, NCL, HAL, Princess and Carnival. They’re all comparable in price and ships. 

[insidecabin]

Going back years I have read reports of the demographic issues especially on the long TA cruises between Europe and South America not just MSC.

 

Only had one major experience when a group of judges from South America were on a ship with families, the sense of entitlement reflected their status back home. 

 

I think there is a critical mass when people go native,  generally people are well behaved,  but a soon as the "group" gets big enough things start to go off as they can dominate spaces.

Sometimes it is CC groups with organized events.

I have seen a solo group dominate the martini bar on a celebrity ship all cruise, 

 

Another time was a shorter cruise out of Miami where there were lots of organized groups, meetings etc daytime, that became drinkers after "work", sort of spring break with grown ups.

 

UK short cruise attract stag/hen party groups at one point P&O put a restriction on the dressing up those groups tend to do(P&O not keen on the blow up penis around the ship). 

 

I think in the UK MSC prices have attracted traditional  package holiday people, the land based prices are up and with all the flight/airport  issues people looked elsewhere no fly, when a family of 4 can get on a ship for less the price of a hotel only in the UK, or flying to Spain they are going to try it.

 

 

[HipHipOnAShip]

7 hours ago, mvh said:

Do you have 3500 examples, since apparently every passenger had no manners?

@mvhMaking an example of someone WITH NO manners.  Well done.  Well done.

[actuarian]

6 hours ago, styles27 said:

Agree about the different targets depending on region. Here in the states I consider their competition to be RCCL, NCL, HAL, Princess and Carnival. They’re all comparable in price and ships. 

I would limit it to Royal Caribbean, NCL, and Carnival. HAL and Princess are in a premium price category, along with Celebrity, Viking and Disney.

[styles27]

7 hours ago, insidecabin said:

Going back years I have read reports of the demographic issues especially on the long TA cruises between Europe and South America not just MSC.

 

Only had one major experience when a group of judges from South America were on a ship with families, the sense of entitlement reflected their status back home. 

 

I think there is a critical mass when people go native,  generally people are well behaved,  but a soon as the "group" gets big enough things start to go off as they can dominate spaces.

Sometimes it is CC groups with organized events.

I have seen a solo group dominate the martini bar on a celebrity ship all cruise, 

 

Another time was a shorter cruise out of Miami where there were lots of organized groups, meetings etc daytime, that became drinkers after "work", sort of spring break with grown ups.

 

 

 

Sounds exactly like our experience in January on Divina. 
A massive group who didn’t care how their abhorrent behavior impacted those not in their group. 
It wasn’t a chartered ship but it felt like it. 

[insidecabin]

I am on a couple of UK social media groups that some of the new to cruising that are trying first time with Virtuosa hang out.

 

There is significant positive response to their first cruise with many looking to book another on MSC.

 

Small sample but significant as amongst more regular cruisers MSC has a bad reputation so tends to not be considered even when looking beyond their favourite lines. 

 

I think MSC may be mopping up those on the fence with cruising, and may have higher retention rates than industry average.

 

The UK  CLIA reports for the years before covid say that each year around 30% are new to cruising but since market growth YoY is tiny not may have been regular repeaters.

 

We tend to only look around 6months ahead, looking at the 23/24 winter UK the prices were up a bit from the lows of this winter, and been creeping up as dates start to get limited availability

Will be watching as we have some funds for some late booking added.

 

In the UK while other lines like NCL and Celebrity  are pushing the 50% off model from outrageous prices, MSC prices to sell and tends to discount upto around 15% through TA and sometimes 10% themselves they also have a flexible drinks package add-on as another way to adjust totals.

 

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 4/10/2023 at 9:40 PM, styles27 said:

I have no reason to embellish or exaggerate anything

3500 horrible passengers with no manners. 

[styles27]

Finished our cruise yesterday.
 

 

We can cruise on a sold out ship with 400 kids during school vacation and have a very positive experience without having to book The Haven or Yacht Club. 

 

Very apparent that this ship is not understaffed. 
 

Our faith in cruising is restored. 
 

This was our second NCL cruise,  we are not loyal to any one cruise company.

We cruise with all of them. 
 

HAL next. 
 

 

 

[insidecabin]

3 hours ago, styles27 said:

Finished our cruise yesterday.
 

 

We can cruise on a sold out ship with 400 kids during school vacation and have a very positive experience without having to book The Haven or Yacht Club. 

 

Very apparent that this ship is not understaffed. 
 

Our faith in cruising is restored. 
 

This was our second NCL cruise,  we are not loyal to any one cruise company.

We cruise with all of them. 
 

HAL next. 
 

We did a couple of covid return cruises on Getaway they were low capacity helped overcome the restrictions at the time 

 

Giving NCL Star a go next month and started looking at one of the new Costa ships, a UK vlogger did a review and they look good.

 

Need to get my head round HAL and their price model.

 

[styles27]

53 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

We did a couple of covid return cruises on Getaway they were low capacity helped overcome the restrictions at the time 

 

Giving NCL Star a go next month and started looking at one of the new Costa ships, a UK vlogger did a review and they look good.

 

Need to get my head round HAL and their price model.

 

We’ve found a great travel agency that gives a very generous OBC and pays the service charge so that helps with the higher priced cruise lines. 
 

You really do get what you pay for. We realize that now. 

We enjoy the MSC product and ships but after our experience in January we won’t cruise outside of the YC with them in the future. 
 

The issue I have with that is we limit ourselves to a small area on a huge ship. We may as well pay for a more premium cruise line where we can enjoy the entire ship. 
 

[Homosassa]

I know the market demographic Styles27 cruise with in January. 

 

I have run into the same type of behavior from that demographic in Walt Disney World during the summer (had to yell for security a a night time parade because a woman was attacking and pushing my daughter and I out of the way so her daughter could shove her way in) and in Cancun in January.

 

While I enjoy the international clientele on MSC, there are some that need to learn basic manners.

 

 

[JamieLogical]

6 minutes ago, styles27 said:

We’ve found a great travel agency that gives a very generous OBC and pays the service charge so that helps with the higher priced cruise lines. 
 

You really do get what you pay for. We realize that now. 

We enjoy the MSC product and ships but after our experience in January we won’t cruise outside of the YC with them in the future. 
 

The issue I have with that is we limit ourselves to a small area on a huge ship. We may as well pay for a more premium cruise line where we can enjoy the entire ship. 
 

 

 

I wouldn't limit yourself to not sailing an entire cruise line because of the other guests you experienced onboard. Like I said, I am in the Meraviglia right now and so far, my only complaint about another passenger is one lady who put her bare foot up on a chair in the Edge lounge. I think it really is dependent on the itinerary. I have sailed on Celebrity on a 4 day out of Miami and it definitely had more of a "booze cruise" feel to it. None of these cruise lines are screening their passengers for manners before allowing them to board. You can run into rude passengers on an cruise line.

[styles27]

20 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

 

I wouldn't limit yourself to not sailing an entire cruise line because of the other guests you experienced onboard. Like I said, I am in the Meraviglia right now and so far, my only complaint about another passenger is one lady who put her bare foot up on a chair in the Edge lounge. I think it really is dependent on the itinerary. I have sailed on Celebrity on a 4 day out of Miami and it definitely had more of a "booze cruise" feel to it. None of these cruise lines are screening their passengers for manners before allowing them to board. You can run into rude passengers on a cruise line.

We definitely will cruise MSC again but only in YC if we’re leaving from Miami and never during a holiday again. 

 

[NYcruzzer]

1 hour ago, styles27 said:

We’ve found a great travel agency that gives a very generous OBC and pays the service charge so that helps with the higher priced cruise lines. 
 

You really do get what you pay for. We realize that now. 

We enjoy the MSC product and ships but after our experience in January we won’t cruise outside of the YC with them in the future. 
 

The issue I have with that is we limit ourselves to a small area on a huge ship. We may as well pay for a more premium cruise line where we can enjoy the entire ship. 
 

Welcome home. I felt the same way about the Haven on NCL. Was in Haven on Gem and Breakaway. Felt like we had to spend more time in Haven areas to get our "moneys worth" On my first MSC cruise on Mera this May I purposely chose a room in "gen-pop" . This way I can spend more time covering all the areas of the ship

When you compare YC vs Premium lines you aren't putiing NCL in the premium cruiseline catagory are you ? To me they are no better then Royal or dare I say Carnival

[styles27]

1 hour ago, NYcruzzer said:

Welcome home. I felt the same way about the Haven on NCL. Was in Haven on Gem and Breakaway. Felt like we had to spend more time in Haven areas to get our "moneys worth" On my first MSC cruise on Mera this May I purposely chose a room in "gen-pop" . This way I can spend more time covering all the areas of the ship

When you compare YC vs Premium lines you aren't putiing NCL in the premium cruiseline catagory are you ? To me they are no better then Royal or dare I say Carnival

Definitely don’t consider them to be a premium line I should have said higher priced than MSC.
 

To me NCL and MSC aren’t that far apart yet NCL is more expensive. (At least for us it was in comparison to our last MSC cruise)

[MsTabbyKats]

30 minutes ago, styles27 said:

Definitely don’t consider them to be a premium line I should have said higher priced than MSC.
 

To me NCL and MSC aren’t that far apart yet NCL is more expensive. (At least for us it was in comparison to our last MSC cruise)

An 8 nite YIN on MSC Mera cost less than a 7 nite guarantee "no frills" balcony on NCL, both out of NYC, for the same week this month.   

 

Thanks to CC I've read about weeks when the Haven was overrun by groups of unruly kids with minimal (if any) adult supervision.  And, weeks when "obvious groups" in the gereral population made it unpleasant for others.

 

It's the luck of the draw....you never know who else is going to be onboard. If security, or someone, can't control "pushing and shoving" I'd be spending my money elsewhere.

[insidecabin]

12 hours ago, styles27 said:

We’ve found a great travel agency that gives a very generous OBC and pays the service charge so that helps with the higher priced cruise lines. 
 

You really do get what you pay for. We realize that now. 

We enjoy the MSC product and ships but after our experience in January we won’t cruise outside of the YC with them in the future. 
 

The issue I have with that is we limit ourselves to a small area on a huge ship. We may as well pay for a more premium cruise line where we can enjoy the entire ship. 
 

You have to remember MSC will be very different depending where you sail.

 

We are on Virtuosa, in the winter mainly Brits and Germans which are generally well behaved.

Loads of excuse me, sorry, thank you etc.

 

You still get the capacity issues, last 2 week were Easter  holidays over 6k on board so very busy reports are Masters of the sea became a kiddy care location with family groups in the evening.

 

UK changeover was Friday and I think we are down to 3k-4k(get different answer).

Today is German change day more getting off than on should also lose most of the remaining school age kids.

 

Last night you could get seated anywhere feels like a ghost ship at times(show on)

This morning Buffet is really quiet 9am normally a zoo even on low capacity cruises.

 

Absolutely no need for YC to get away from people this week

 

When available what works for us is B2B regular(do big ship stuff  followed by YC(when price is good) for the relax time.

 

End of this week Virtuosa becomes a UK ship will get filled with Brits, the onboard dynamic will change, they tend to drop some of the multi language announcement.

 

For us it certainly sounds like MSC US needs very careful research.

 

 

[styles27]

14 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

An 8 nite YIN on MSC Mera cost less than a 7 nite guarantee "no frills" balcony on NCL, both out of NYC, for the same week this month.   

 

Thanks to CC I've read about weeks when the Haven was overrun by groups of unruly kids with minimal (if any) adult supervision.  And, weeks when "obvious groups" in the gereral population made it unpleasant for others.

 

It's the luck of the draw....you never know who else is going to be onboard. If security, or someone, can't control "pushing and shoving" I'd be spending my money elsewhere.

Completely agree it’s the luck of the draw.

Over 40 cruises under our belts and we never had the experience we had on Divina in January.
 

Had it been a 3-4 day cruise we probably would have chalked it up to the “booze cruise” type sailing but we did 10 days and 4 days back to back. The 10 day was the problem. 

 

All things considered we’ve had great luck. 
 

This cruise on Pearl had great passengers especially considering it was cold and windy going to and coming back from Bermuda we were inside a lot yet zero problems.
Pearl didn’t seem to be understaffed which makes a huge difference also. 

 

Unfortunately still reading some of the same complaints about Divina on other social media sites. I think they need a change of management. I feel so bad for the crew on that ship. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by styles27