New legal language from Celebrity?

[Lastdance]

12 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

This is true, but it could change again if Celebrity wants to do something different.  Celebrity can change the contract to whatever it wants whenever it wants.

Agree, but if you choose to cruise with Celebrity, this is now the path going forward, except if it is updated again, like you stated.  Then that will be the newer path...People were put off the ship last fall on the TA in Azores, so Celebrity is changing/refining the rules.  If you were confined to your cabin/suite, you had to wear a mask on day six when released and so on...this puts a little more “bite” into it.  Again, rules are one thing, but how they are enforced consistently is a little more obscured.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Lastdance

[kirtihk]

15 hours ago, capsplace said:

Never received any email and we have 6 cruises sailing after April 12, 2023.  What should we do?

Hmmm,.. Oh! - Go and enjoy your 6 cruises, of course!

 

Voyage, Voyage!

Edited April 13, 2023 by kirtihk

[SoCalTraveler]

I just presumed that they changed the venue for disputes to England and Wales for US citizens cruising in Europe.  I thought the previous rule was that in the event of an issue we had to sue in Miami, which, for California residents like ourselves, is not terrifically practical.  Now we would need to retain a barrister in England.

 

Fortunately, in all the cruises we have taken, we have never even come close to any hint of suing the cruise line, and we always have insurance. (we've never had an insurance claim on a cruise, either.)  Celebrity has always been more than fair with us; our experience includes a Celebrity cruise cancelled last minute (on our way to LAX last minute) pre-pandemic.

[the penguins]

5 hours ago, SoCalTraveler said:

I just presumed that they changed the venue for disputes to England and Wales for US citizens cruising in Europe.  I thought the previous rule was that in the event of an issue we had to sue in Miami, which, for California residents like ourselves, is not terrifically practical.  Now we would need to retain a barrister in England.

 

Fortunately, in all the cruises we have taken, we have never even come close to any hint of suing the cruise line, and we always have insurance. (we've never had an insurance claim on a cruise, either.)  Celebrity has always been more than fair with us; our experience includes a Celebrity cruise cancelled last minute (on our way to LAX last minute) pre-pandemic.

It's not where you cruise but, as from now, where, as detailed on your booking form, you live. Address in the US, US conditions apply, address in the UK, UK conditions apply. 

[arealcheapskate]

I'm not really sure how they can change the contract for pre-existing bookings. I wonder if you didn't agree would you get a refund? 

[wrk2cruise]

Part of the online checkin has always been to accept the cruise contract which has always been the current one at the date of checkin.   I guess they have always been able to change it after booking and after final payment.

 

If you don't accept it, you don't board and no refund.

[prmssk]

12 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

Part of the online checkin has always been to accept the cruise contract which has always been the current one at the date of checkin.   I guess they have always been able to change it after booking and after final payment.

 

If you don't accept it, you don't board and no refund.

That is true but check-in starts at 45 days before the cruise.  In this case, we had already agreed to our cruise contract for our May 9 sailing and received our eDocs which include the Cruise Contract when we got this e-mail stating it was effective for sailings departing April 12.

[capsplace]

Finally received the infamous email, but when I tried to acknowledge, it said my time had expired.  It was like three seconds from when I opened the email and clicked on the acknowledgment link.  
Others have had similar issues and say a second email was received and they successfully acknowledged.  So far, no second email.  We leave on Millie in one week.  Perhaps we’ll have something to sign when we check in at the port?

[adolfo2]

In case one wanted to cancel... I wonder if you could use this change in terms as a "get out of jail FREE card" to do it w/o penalty?

 

[phoenix_dream]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:17 PM, JeriGail said:

This part on COVID concerns me - "may or will include mandatory use of face coverings outside of passenger's cabin."  Is this in case of a severe outbreak?

 

COVID-19 Policies and Procedures. Passenger understands that Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures may or will include (but are not be limited to): (1) providing an accurate, truthful and complete health questionnaire in a form and containing any and all health or travel-related questions as required by Carrier in its sole discretion, for each Passenger prior to boarding; (2) pre-embarkation and/or periodic testing and temperature checks of each Passenger; (3) modified capacity rules for activities (including but not limited to restaurants, gyms, and entertainment events onboard and for shore excursions) which may limit or eliminate the ability of Passenger to participate in particular activities; (4) mandatory use by each Passenger (except where medically contraindicated) of face coverings in most locations outside of the Passenger’s cabin while onboard, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions; (5) mandatory social distancing of Passengers at any/all times while on board and during embarkation, disembarkation, and shore excursions; (6) additional restrictions during shore excursions depending on local conditions, including but not limited to denial of disembarkation at destinations unless participating in only Carrier-approved shore excursions; (7) mandatory hand- sanitizing by Passenger upon entry or exit of any public areas; (8) confinement of Passengers to cabins, quarantine or emergency disembarkation of Passenger if, in Carrier’s sole discretion, such steps are necessary to prevent or slow the spread of COVID-19; 

So if you get Covid they can dump you in a foreign country (which may be a relatively unsafe third world country with limited medical facilities) with no assistance or resources and the part that concerns you is maybe you might have to wear a mask onboard?!  Wow.  

[chamima]

13 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

So if you get Covid they can dump you in a foreign country (which may be a relatively unsafe third world country with limited medical facilities) with no assistance or resources and the part that concerns you is maybe you might have to wear a mask onboard?!  Wow.  

 

I also noticed that language and if it isn't changed would definitely make me reconsider how safe it is to cruise Celebrity.

(The language about dumping you in a foreign country NOT the mandatory mask wearing.)

 

Passenger understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Passenger has fully complied with all COVID-19 Policies and Procedures, Passenger tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Passenger as well as members of Passenger’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others.

 

*

Edited April 14, 2023 by chamima

[The_Big_M]

3 hours ago, arealcheapskate said:

I'm not really sure how they can change the contract for pre-existing bookings. I wonder if you didn't agree would you get a refund? 

 

If it came down to it you would take legal action in the jurisdiction of your original contract, based on the terms of your original contract.

 

They may then argue that the new one applied, and your competent barrister would then demolish that by arguing there was no provision to unilaterally change the entire contract.

 

You wouldn't get a refund from the above; it's only if they offered it as an option to encourage people to accept it (but still couldn't force people to accept it).

[cruisinsusin]

32 minutes ago, chamima said:

 

I also noticed that language and if it isn't changed would definitely make me reconsider how safe it is to cruise Celebrity.

(The language about dumping you in a foreign country NOT the mandatory mask wearing.)

 

Passenger understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Passenger has fully complied with all COVID-19 Policies and Procedures, Passenger tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Passenger as well as members of Passenger’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others.

 

*

I'm fairly sure that this verbiage was there soon after restart as I had similar concerns. From personal experience, they did not disembark us in Australia with covid earlier this year-we had  5 day isolation with very attentive followup

[cruisinsusin]

2 minutes ago, cruisinsusin said:

I'm fairly sure that this verbiage was there soon after restart as I had similar concerns. From personal experience, they did not disembark us in Australia with covid earlier this year-we had  5 day isolation with very attentive followup

this was from 2020:

Per the Celebrity Cruise Ticket contract updated 10/20/2020, section 4f:

f. Passenger Testing Positive for COVID-19 During Cruise. Passenger understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Passenger has fully complied with all COVID-19 Policies and Procedures, Passenger tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Passenger as well as members of Passenger’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, any such Passenger with a known or suspected case of infection with COVID-19 who is disembarked, refused re-boarding, or quarantined shall be entitled to a prorated refund or future cruise credit for the unused portion of the Cruise Fare. For further details, refer to Carrier’s refund and cancellation policy at www.celebritycruises.com. Each such Passenger is responsible for all other related costs and fines, including without limitation travel expenses. Under no circumstances shall Carrier be liable to any such Passenger for any costs, damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Passenger. 

[SoCalTraveler]

8 hours ago, the penguins said:

It's not where you cruise but, as from now, where, as detailed on your booking form, you live. Address in the US, US conditions apply, address in the UK, UK conditions apply. 

The version we can access is missing a line, but as I read the contract, if you are a U.S. citizen but take a Celebrity Cruise which never touches the USA, then you must bring your claims in England or Wales.  I can see that more clearly on the Galapagos contract.  Since we have upcoming European and Galapagos cruises, that applies to us.

[wrk2cruise]

3 hours ago, prmssk said:

That is true but check-in starts at 45 days before the cruise.  In this case, we had already agreed to our cruise contract for our May 9 sailing and received our eDocs which include the Cruise Contract when we got this e-mail stating it was effective for sailings departing April 12.

 

I still think my statement will apply "If you don't accept it, you don't board and no refund. ".

 

[NevadaCruiser2023]

On 4/12/2023 at 1:26 PM, Mark_T said:

I think it might be an attempt to stop those who are not actually US residents from taking advantage of the more liberal repricing policies in the US.

 

UK residents have often been happy to be subject to the US T&Cs since they cannot reprice UK bookings when prices fall...

 

This change would make it pointless for non-US residents to use a US TA in most cases.

Just be assured that any new contract language will benefit Celebrity. 

[prmssk]

37 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

I still think my statement will apply "If you don't accept it, you don't board and no refund. ".

 

I agree there would be no refund but I think it gets quite messy if they are making changes after you agree to the contract and they have already issued eDocs (which will contradict the new changes). 

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, SoCalTraveler said:

The version we can access is missing a line, but as I read the contract, if you are a U.S. citizen but take a Celebrity Cruise which never touches the USA, then you must bring your claims in England or Wales.  I can see that more clearly on the Galapagos contract.  Since we have upcoming European and Galapagos cruises, that applies to us.

We must be reading or accessing this differently. Everything I see from the first statement to the last and also highlighted in red when I click the US page says the conditions are dependent on your address as shown on the booking form. If you are right it would mean that US residents booking a cruise sailing out of the UK would no longer be eligible for example price drops. 

 

 

[SoCalTraveler]

We have asked for price drops a couple of times.  Once, on Princess, it was denied but Princess extended a very favorable upgrade and perks offer for a nominal price, which we jumped at.  And once, on a cruise line I'll only mention by initials, RCCL, the price dropped significantly, but RCCL refused to give anyone who had paid in full (we were past the payment date) any consideration, while selling cabins as cheap as possible.  One fellow we met got an interior cabin with the liquor package for a 15 day cruise for $460.00; another couple down the hall paid $470 each.  The subject of these price reductions was not only talked about more than any other cruise we've been on, but was the subject of multiple questions to the Captain at a talk the Captain gave; the answer each time was that no one on the ship has anything to do with setting prices.

[1Virgo]

I ve read this contract over til I m just about cross eyed. Wish i had gone to law school.  There are ambiguous parts relating to Covid and we can all interpret them differently . I m wondering if the clause about dumping you in a port/denied embarkation if you are positive or suspected positive, has been inserted to deal with those that refuse to comply with the protocols in place. ie. stay in your cabin. Companions must mask up (right, as if)  This does give the staff more power to deal with these types.  

In a previous post about being in Vancouver terminal, I mentioned  a person we noticed that was asked to keep their mask up, and didnt, we found out later in cruise that person tested positive    That person apparently threatened to sue.  again, heresay but we did see the non compliance.  

Some passengers are determined to do rules and protocols their way.  This protects the cruise lines but puts DH and I on edge.      

[phoenix_dream]

8 hours ago, chamima said:

 

I also noticed that language and if it isn't changed would definitely make me reconsider how safe it is to cruise Celebrity.

(The language about dumping you in a foreign country NOT the mandatory mask wearing.)

 

Passenger understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Passenger has fully complied with all COVID-19 Policies and Procedures, Passenger tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Passenger as well as members of Passenger’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others.

 

*

I agree with those who pointed out that the language has been there since restart.  In most cases to date (those last two words being key), people were not disembarked they were quarantined.  I have read of a few cases (usually prior to many days at sea like a TA) where people were in fact left in foreign countries due to Covid.  It will be interesting to see how Celebrity handles this going forward and if they change their process.  Hopefully not.  As it is people are hesitant to report for fear of being quarantined.  If they increase the disembarkations that would really cause an uproar so hopefully that will only be used in unique circumstances.

[chamima]

9 hours ago, chamima said:

 

Passenger understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Passenger has fully complied with all COVID-19 Policies and Procedures, Passenger tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Passenger as well as members of Passenger’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others.

 

*

 

1 hour ago, 1Virgo said:

I ve read this contract over til I m just about cross eyed. Wish i had gone to law school.  There are ambiguous parts relating to Covid and we can all interpret them differently . I m wondering if the clause about dumping you in a port/denied embarkation if you are positive or suspected positive, has been inserted to deal with those that refuse to comply with the protocols in place. ie. stay in your cabin. Companions must mask up (right, as if)  This does give the staff more power to deal with these types.  

In a previous post about being in Vancouver terminal, I mentioned  a person we noticed that was asked to keep their mask up, and didnt, we found out later in cruise that person tested positive    That person apparently threatened to sue.  again, heresay but we did see the non compliance.  

Some passengers are determined to do rules and protocols their way.  This protects the cruise lines but puts DH and I on edge.      

 
Read my post in purple above. 

[1Virgo]

1 hour ago, chamima said:

 

 
Read my post in purple above. 

i did

[the penguins]

7 hours ago, chamima said:

 

 
Read my post in purple above. 

Ship's have always had the right to refuse boarding, quarantine passengers etc ( we have always had to  complete a health form pre boarding) and the new rules just highlights that Covid is now being treated like other illnesses. We never travel without full  insurance which covers us for any medical issues including covid cover. If anyone chooses to travel without such insurance then it's a risk they have knowingly chosen to take.