CCL High Debt /what is Your Opinion

[BermudaBound2014]

@ldtr... you're getting closer 🙂 

[RuthC]

3 hours ago, Roz said:

And my eyes are glazing over.....🥱

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[taxmantoo]

Time for another Wang Wang ... 

 

 

[cruisequeen4ever]

I agree the prices are rising at the same time as cutbacks are occurring, and I agree that it will affect the number of repeat cruisers. My husband is starting to see the value of cruising less and less, which makes me sad as I cruise for the magic of it, not just a value.

[mowogo]

9 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I agree the prices are rising at the same time as cutbacks are occurring, and I agree that it will affect the number of repeat cruisers. My husband is starting to see the value of cruising less and less, which makes me sad as I cruise for the magic of it, not just a value.

Sometimes the value is in just having to pay for lodging somewhere.  I’m seriously considering a MSC Magnifica 3 day because Key West and their private island for days is less than I would get for a hotel room for a single night to even have the full day in Key West available. Their private island becomes a bonus destination and is a beautiful marine reserve where even with 3,400 people on the ship, I was able to get a whole section of protected beach to myself. 

 

Cruising for value means the value sweet spot is always a moving target,  and HALs ships are hit especially hard since they are smaller so have more fixed cost per passenger. The good news is that market pressures are making it where they can’t raise prices as much as costs are increasing so value is still there.  Yes the experience is different, but the experience was evolving anyway.  Sometimes that just provides an excuse to try out different lines that have an itinerary that is interesting. Sometimes you just have to do a little more work to get value.  And sometimes the value is just at a higher point.

[rodndonna]

17 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I agree the prices are rising at the same time as cutbacks are occurring, and I agree that it will affect the number of repeat cruisers. My husband is starting to see the value of cruising less and less, which makes me sad as I cruise for the magic of it, not just a value.

 

Has he been comparing it to the rising cost of an equivalent land holiday or does it really just come down to not feeling the value of a "cruise" holiday in general? Indeed if with changes (or sometime just time itself....), I can see becoming disenchanted with something (like cruising) and it would therefore hold less value.  

 

Either way I feel your pain. 😒

 

We are relatively newer to doing cruise holidays, and still  early on the upwards ramp of enjoying them. At this point is still seems an endless variety of things for us to try (cruise lines, cruise ship sizes, itinerary's,  etc.) .  For us they appear to be very comparable (generally better) value than land holidays and a whole lot less work, which became the biggest disenchantment factor of land holidays. 

 

[Mary229]

11 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

Has he been comparing it to the rising cost of an equivalent land holiday or does it really just come down to not feeling the value of a "cruise" holiday in general? Indeed if with changes (or sometime just time itself....), I can see becoming disenchanted with something (like cruising) and it would therefore hold less value.  

 

Either way I feel your pain. 😒

 

We are relatively newer to doing cruise holidays, and still  early on the upwards ramp of enjoying them. At this point is still seems an endless variety of things for us to try (cruise lines, cruise ship sizes, itinerary's,  etc.) .  For us they appear to be very comparable (generally better) value than land holidays and a whole lot less work, which became the biggest disenchantment factor of land holidays. 

 

Totally agree.  I cannot even guess how many miles I have driven for travel.   We were able to get into some very remote areas and see some amazing sights. Now I want a little leisure and comfort and am not so interested in active adventure holidays.  DH doesn’t like to repeat , he will do some overlap as long as it is not a full repeat.  I see his cruising days ending in a few years. 
 

We now cruise the long journeys and for driving we are doing small jaunts to fill in the gaps or see the places we bypassed in past years. 

[seekatz]

A few thoughts on cruise value/ pricing.

-Our Alaska 1982 cruise was $ 1,000 per person for a very small porthole cabin, just an example as cruise prices in many cases are not that much different than many years ago. Inflation adjusted they are less.

-Port fees are an issue not discussed often. Its common to see on some cruises the port fees being more than the cruise price. This sure has an impact on the all in pricing.

-Occupancy just released is 107%. I am not sure why CCL corp. feels they need free casino offers as well as third and forth passengers free or with a heavy discount. Upon reading reviews a common concern is the ship feeling crowded or understaffed and slow service.  

 

We still find cruising to be a good value, but we look at the total price per day including the cruise price, port fees and gratuities.

 

[Guest ldtr]

33 minutes ago, seekatz said:

A few thoughts on cruise value/ pricing.

-Our Alaska 1982 cruise was $ 1,000 per person for a very small porthole cabin, just an example as cruise prices in many cases are not that much different than many years ago. Inflation adjusted they are less.

-Port fees are an issue not discussed often. Its common to see on some cruises the port fees being more than the cruise price. This sure has an impact on the all in pricing.

-Occupancy just released is 107%. I am not sure why CCL corp. feels they need free casino offers as well as third and forth passengers free or with a heavy discount. Upon reading reviews a common concern is the ship feeling crowded or understaffed and slow service.  

 

We still find cruising to be a good value, but we look at the total price per day including the cruise price, port fees and gratuities.

 

Not quite. Occupancy q2 was 98%. They are projecting q3 to be 107%. As with q2 that projection should be pretty accurate since they know exactly how many passengers are fully paid for the next quarter (within 90 day full payment window) and exactly how many unsold cabins exist.

 

Casino offers exist because they make far more on the amount spent in the casino than they give up by the reduced fare offer.

[mcrcruiser]

Yikes CCL stock down as low as $13 .90 today  ,June 26 m2024 

 

 Here is why : https://finance.yahoo.com/video/carnival-corporation-stock-drops-following-135731346.html

[rodndonna]

8 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Yikes CCL stock down as low as $13 .90 today  ,June 26 m2024 

 

 Here is why : https://finance.yahoo.com/video/carnival-corporation-stock-drops-following-135731346.html

 

I watched the video - where was the why?  In the video they state they are a bit baffled based on the the relaesed results.

[mcrcruiser]

14 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

I watched the video - where was the why?  In the video they state they are a bit baffled based on the the relaesed results.

Servicing  the huge debt .The Fed is saying rates will still go up ,so keep that in mind as well .I just buy on these nice dips  .Making more than any OBCs on the stock going up &  down .But I don't throw the OBVs overboard either 

[rodndonna]

Just now, mcrcruiser said:

Servicing  the huge debt .The Fed is saying rates will still go up ,so keep that in mind as well .I just buy on these nice dips  .Making more than any OBCs on the stock going up &  down .But I don't throw the OBVs overboard either 

 

I think you posted the wrong video - nothing like that was mentioned in that video.

[mcrcruiser]

19 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

I watched the video - where was the why?  In the video they state they are a bit baffled based on the the relaesed results.

Truly who is yo say  ? imo ,this stock is a trading stock for sure . 

[mcrcruiser]

Just now, mcrcruiser said:

Truly who is yo say  ? imo ,this stock is a trading stock for sure . 

We made quite a lot on CCL stock . Charting is the only way to know when to reenter for buys & then e=watch for the sell signals 

[Guest ldtr]

24 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

I watched the video - where was the why?  In the video they state they are a bit baffled based on the the relaesed results.

Typical buy on rumor sell on news.

 

No other news expected for 3 months so traders looking for another opportunity. News was above expectations and on track.

 

 Will be interesting to look at once the 10q is available.

[mcrcruiser]

Incredible stock to swing trade . 

[seekatz]

3 hours ago, ldtr said:

Not quite. Occupancy q2 was 98%. They are projecting q3 to be 107%. As with q2 that projection should be pretty accurate since they know exactly how many passengers are fully paid for the next quarter (within 90 day full payment window) and exactly how many unsold cabins exist.

 

Casino offers exist because they make far more on the amount spent in the casino than they give up by the reduced fare offer.

Yes logic would say your right, but on CC I see so many who discuss all their winnings in the casino and all of the free drinks and other comps. On he occupancy issue my point was the ships are sailing full which mirrors my recent experience as well as comments I read. Always great to share thoughts and ideas, thanks.

[Guest ldtr]

44 minutes ago, seekatz said:

Yes logic would say your right, but on CC I see so many who discuss all their winnings in the casino and all of the free drinks and other comps. On he occupancy issue my point was the ships are sailing full which mirrors my recent experience as well as comments I read. Always great to share thoughts and ideas, thanks.

It is my experience that gamblers never talk about the times they have lost, only their winnings. Part of the same sense of optimistic view that they will win the next time they gamble as well.

 

It is amazing how the companies can afford to build such lavish casinos in Las Vegas, when everyone seems to win.

[Mary229]

Just now, ldtr said:

It is my experience that gamblers never talk about the times they have lost, only their winnings. Part of the same sense of optimistic view that they will win the next time they gamble as well.

 

It is amazing how the companies can afford to build such lavish casinos in Las Vegas, when everyone seems to win.

I am really a small gambler, around $200 on a 30 day cruise.  I usually plow any wins back in so literally $200 spent.   The savings I have received on cruises far outstrips that expenditure.  Unfortunately I don’t drink but the free Perriers are a couple of dollars a day.  I treat it the same way as my ownership of CCL - a fee to unlock perks. One must approach it with discipline. 

[Guest ldtr]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I am really a small gambler, around $200 on a 30 day cruise.  I usually plow any wins back in so literally $200 spent.   The savings I have received on cruises far outstrips that expenditure.  Unfortunately I don’t drink but the free Perriers are a couple of dollars a day.  I treat it the same way as my ownership of CCL - a fee to unlock perks. One must approach it with discipline. 

Probably not an example of the average casino spend of those receiving the offers.

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Probably not an example of the average casino spend of those receiving the offers.

But it can be done.  After reading these boards carefully I figured out what I was willing to spend and a methodology to see if it would work.  It took a while but it has paid off.  I do not expect this to continue but while available I will play. 

[rodndonna]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

But it can be done.  After reading these boards carefully I figured out what I was willing to spend and a methodology to see if it would work.  It took a while but it has paid off.  I do not expect this to continue but while available I will play. 

 

I have been doing the same with HAL which we have only sailed since Covid, and like you don't expect the "payback" rate to continue at the same level we have enjoyed this past year. That being said, before Covid we had sailed Carnival a few times and tested it in terms of what we could get for lower levels of slot play. We had no problems getting future discount rates (which we are still getting) which exceeded our typical out of pocket costs, so am hoping it might be the same with HAL.

[HappyInVan]

There's been plenty of bounces. The fundamentals have not changed. Interest rates still going up. And, CCL has to fund $1b in debt payments + interest every quarter for several years. 

 

Anyone have data for HAL? That's what I'm interested in.

Edited June 26, 2023 by HappyInVan

[Guest ldtr]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

But it can be done.  After reading these boards carefully I figured out what I was willing to spend and a methodology to see if it would work.  It took a while but it has paid off.  I do not expect this to continue but while available I will play. 

Sure  If one plans well, understands the casino offers system, has the discipline to stick to their spending limit. Enough for entertainment and get offers, but not more.