Just off the first two Ascent cruises in the Retreat

[buncosquad]

The model used by Celebrity for my experience over my four sailings (two in an EV, two in Iconics) was identical over the past 16 months.

 

Butler for my EV itineraries met me in terminal Retreat lounge, walked me on, then spent about half an hour confirming all my reservations and requests, asked me to set out clothes (any time in the next few hours, as my suitcases were already in the room) that needed immediate pressing for that night and the next night, then did a stateroom tour before walking me to Luminae for lunch.

 

For my Iconics, the Retreat manager walked me on both times, handed me my key cards in a sealed envelope with a personalized welcome letter, then introduced me to my butler (who was waiting in the room upon my arrival). The butler proceeded as was done with the EVs - immediate clothes to be pressed (luggage was always in the room when I arrived), showed me around the room while he had someone go get me two drinks from one of the bars, then walked us to lunch in Luminae.

 

Only interacted with my butler for anything needed at any time. Zero grief. Always on point. Never dropped the ball.

 

I add this detail to note that I observe no change to service in these suites.

 

Moral of the story, if you want a real suite, buy a real suite. Don't let Celebrity trick you that you are getting a suite simply by adding the word "suite" to the name of your stateroom.

 

Celebrity, you're alright, kid (even if you're a trickster).

Edited December 1, 2023 by buncosquad

[PTC DAWG]

Sailing on the Ascent Jan 21 next month..SS..I hope my Wife and I survive. 🤣

[Shellyd22]

9 minutes ago, buncosquad said:

The model used by Celebrity for my experience over my four sailings (two in an EV, two in Iconics) was identical over the past 16 months.

 

Butler for my EV itineraries met me in terminal Retreat lounge, walked me on, then spent about half an hour confirming all my reservations and requests, asked me to set out clothes (any time in the next few hours, as my suitcases were already in the room) that needed immediate pressing for that night and the next night, then did a stateroom tour before walking me to Luminae for lunch.

 

For my Iconics, the Retreat manager walked me on both times, handed me my key cards in a sealed envelope with a personalized welcome letter, then introduced me to my butler (who was waiting in the room upon my arrival). The butler proceeded as was done with the EVs - immediate clothes to be pressed  (luggage was always in the room when I arrived), showed me around the room while he had someone go get me two drinks from one of the bars, then walked us to lunch in Luminae.

 

Only interacted with my butler for anything needed at any time. Zero grief. Always on point. Never dropped the ball.

 

I add this detail to note that I observe no change to service in these suites.

 

Celebrity, you're alright, kid.

I’m sure people aren’t doubting the service levels at those suites you mention. Sounds like a lovely experience and one I would never expect in a sky suite. If Celebrity lightened the load on the “retreat hosts” by staffing more appropriately and being transparent to customers then I think people would be less upset. Comparing to a regular IV room on an E class ship, sky suites are pricey. Celebrity advertises the SS experience differently from what I am reading from posters who have recently experienced it. It’s unfortunate to read that people are confused on who does what or are being told to do it themselves or ask someone else. It’s disappointing to hear of poor service on the retreat deck and lack of personalization in the retreat lounge or “misses” in Lumine. Although not to the level you’ve experienced in the high suites, SS passengers should at the very least get a step up from non-retreat passengers, as they are paying a much higher fare. If everything you paid extra for is not meeting your expectations, that sucks. It’s just a larger room with a balcony. No hate to any staff, I’ve worked in food industry for many years before and know how hard it is and discouraging it is to bust your ass and have people upset with you still. When ultimately it’s an issue from up top. I have lowered my expectations for my experience so avoid disappointment but it’s disappointing to have to even do that. I know you’ve mentioned to posters to book a “real” suite to get better service but everyone should get the service/amenities that were advertised and paid for. Just my opinion! 

[buncosquad]

6 minutes ago, Shellyd22 said:

I’m sure people aren’t doubting the service levels at those suites you mention. Sounds like a lovely experience and one I would never expect in a sky suite. If Celebrity lightened the load on the “retreat hosts” by staffing more appropriately and being transparent to customers then I think people would be less upset. Comparing to a regular IV room on an E class ship, sky suites are pricey. Celebrity advertises the SS experience differently from what I am reading from posters who have recently experienced it. It’s unfortunate to read that people are confused on who does what or are being told to do it themselves or ask someone else. It’s disappointing to hear of poor service on the retreat deck and lack of personalization in the retreat lounge or “misses” in Lumine. Although not to the level you’ve experienced in the high suites, SS passengers should at the very least get a step up from non-retreat passengers, as they are paying a much higher fare. If everything you paid extra for is not meeting your expectations, that sucks. It’s just a larger room with a balcony. No hate to any staff, I’ve worked in food industry for many years before and know how hard it is and discouraging it is to bust your ass and have people upset with you still. When ultimately it’s an issue from up top. I have lowered my expectations for my experience so avoid disappointment but it’s disappointing to have to even do that. I know you’ve mentioned to posters to book a “real” suite to get better service but everyone should get the service/amenities that were advertised and paid for. Just my opinion! 

I think we are in agreement.

 

As you state, "It’s just a larger room with a balcony."

 

That's what I've been saying.

 

Celebrity has duped people to buy into those rooms by adding the "suite" word in the name.

 

Based upon the complaints (not my words), those SS category "suites" are just bigger rooms, probably better used for Aqua Class (due to the larger space) allowing for the yoga mat amenity.

 

Downward dog. Cat-Cow. Yay!

[PTC DAWG]

4 minutes ago, buncosquad said:

I think we are in agreement.

 

As you state, "It’s just a larger room with a balcony."

 

That's what I've been saying.

 

Celebrity has duped people to buy into those rooms by adding the "suite" word in the name.

 

Based upon the complaints (not my words), those SS category "suites" are just bigger rooms, probably better used for Aqua Class (due to the larger space) allowing for the yoga mat amenity.

 

Downward dog. Cat-Cow. Yay!

Access to The Retreat and the Suite restaurant are a big deal to many folks…the bigger room is nice too..choices are good.  
 

anyone expecting the pampering of the higher suites is somewhat delusional. 

[Cap_D]

And, for those not fluent in the numbers, on Edge class it's about 180 rooms / 80% of the Retreat rooms that are paying for the services of the Retreat experience regardless of room size (arguably prior to any differentiation in service levels, which to this day is not consistently presented across current direct marketing and compensated influencers) and getting only the services of what in a normal hotel is called a housekeeper and desk concierge in the lounge.  Room size alone has only recently in practice and intent been a differentiator for service.  (Yes the upper suites should be pampered, but that's not the issue). Although someone in an upper suite outside of their room still has to go to their room or a house phone to access the Butler, and wait like anyone else for their food in the Retreat Deck or drink in the understaffed Retreat Lounge.  It's also in doubt if anyone in Retreat recieved to their room breakfast items connected to the physical Luminae from the Luminae room service breakfast menu that is promoted at time of booking.  

 

Two additional asides, on a sky suite the cost for primarily Luminae or wherever the Aqua Sky suites dine, and anything else that is per person, wifi and drinks package, can be backed into by doing a 3 person booking and comparing to the 2 person booking amount.  Take the per day cost and subtract.  That's what people are paying more for plus the slightly larger room.*

 

I'd also add that Retreat was busting st the seams before LHB since the return to sail.  Many times it was sold out, but staffing was generally higher (the butlers hadn't been fired yet), and the housekeeping room attendant role may have been covering fewer rooms.  The net outcome was there were less issues with unmade rooms, higher chance of personalized contact to make one feel like they were getting something etc.   But, what exactly that may have been was not as much luxury as it was troubleshooting and handling of requests in a more seamless manner without the passenger having to work as much for it.  Now it's much closer to the equivalent of standing in line at guest relations, taking a gamble on room service delivery, someone intuitively listening and offering a suggestion or taking care the issue, etc.  

 

In our cruise ending the day after LLP resigned we had already felt some of the above in Retreat in a CS, but with some capacity to recover when issues like room service orders never materializing before an excursion, a butler that was often frazzled, and having to do a lot of self help were raised with everyone involved.  So, CS wasn't perfect, and maybe now it's possibly marginally better since there SSs were abandoned.  Yet, our  conclusion has been that our 2023 CS experience on the service side was not better than our SS service in 2022, when Retreat was at full capacity.  And, if anything the SS butler in 2022 was at the top of his game, and presenting snacks, options, offers to do things at us so that we could have the best experience he could help facilitate ship wide.   

 

Now that is definitively gone as there are only opportunities to engage with the overworked housekeeper (whom on land you wouldn't even know or need to know), and be told by a head Butler to do it yourself.  But, at full capacity in 2022, Retreat butlers and overall was better service on an SS, and we did feel pampered.  In Q2 2023 CS, not so much until we had to speak up. 

 

*I have no idea how to fully price an RCCl Oasis or Icon class ship suite with access to the restaurant and lounge since the drinks packages and other stuff is not included, there was no OBC (as there was in retreat), and definitely no butler until one gets to the few upper suites.  Relatively speaking an SS or CS on Celebrity was a bargain compared to Royals equivalent sized rooms, as it was evident there was going to need to be additional out of pocket cash spent on items to catch up to what was included in Retreat.  Now, it's still impossible to price out RCCL, but the differential has definitely shrunk on price and level of service.  Notably the OBC also effectively meant specialities were included for SS and CS rooms assuming Luminae was used for half or more of the dinners.  So that creates a sense of tailoring and freedom that some may have used. We also had plenty for excursions since our third person was not eligible for the expensive ones due to age and height. 

 

Celebrity has gone down on service, up on price.  Yet, we were mostly buying for service, and minimum requirements for room.  Not solely on price, although celebrity SSs are now clearly overpriced, deceptively marketed, and placing people in less than ideal situations where the decreased service impacts the experience. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Cap_D

[Dolebludger]

Capt_D, before the pandemic we found the Retreat to be a fantastic deal for the price. Now, it is more expensive than alternatives of the same service and space levels. It does seem that the SS has been downgraded and the price increased. And CS too. In 2018 we cruised in a CS, and were free to enjoy the mini fridge contents without additional charge. That may not have been official policy. IDK. But that’s what happened.

[mbddisney]

Can you tell me what deck you embark on. Need to find the closest bar for my welcome champagne!! Thanks in advance

[jelayne]

2 hours ago, RichYak said:

It would seem, from this and other reports, that the Head Butler's primary role is to tell Sky Suite guests who else to contact besides him.

That is our experience on E class where there is 1 HB and about 150 suites.  On S and M where there are roughly 50 suites with 1 HB it may be different.

[CalTexCruiser]

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

This one I don't agree with. I think the Head Butler is just one of the other butlers that are serving the upper suites. Like stateroom attendants (aka "Retreat Hosts"), he just has a different title for Sky Suite guests.

 

You are probably right on this, although it would be interesting if someone actually confirmed this by asking the head butler what he does the 99% of the time that he is not doing anything as a "head butler" of Sky Suites.  I would of course phrase it a bit more delicately.

 

[mac_tlc]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

Sailing on the Ascent Jan 21 next month..SS..I hope my Wife and I survive. 🤣

We will be with you in a SS. We can offer each other moral support to get through the "elevated" experience. 

 

 

mac_tlc

[truckswain]

41 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

Celebrity has gone down on service, up on price.  Yet, we were mostly buying for service, and minimum requirements for room.  Not solely on price, although celebrity SSs are now clearly overpriced, deceptively marketed, and placing people in less than ideal situations where the decreased service impacts the experience. 

I am confused on how SSs are overpriced and deceptively marketed.

 

[CalTexCruiser]

6 hours ago, CardowMD said:

We were in a concierge cabin on deck 11 aft. Our stateroom attendant didn’t introduce himself, nor was there a card with name in room. His tag said Retreat Host and he explained he had one suite in a Sunset cabin to service, along with the other 15-20 cabins that were CG. He was a “lead “ cabin attendant, I assume training new people.  Just an FYI, there was a button on room for Stateroom Attendant, figure that went directly to his PDA.

 

2 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

..., or if they are renamed room attendants with added duties. Now I know it Is the latter. No comments on this from me. Facts speak for themselves.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

IMO, they don't have any duties that they don't already perform in non-Retreat cabins.

 

Well @CardowMD did report they have a tag that said "Retreat Host."  So every morning the extra duty of the attendant would be to put on that tag, and voila! now they are a "Retreat Host" and not just a room attendant.

 

I do think they should remove the "Retreat Host" tag before stepping into a non-SS cabin, to avoid confusing the non-SS passengers.

 

 

[Cap_D]

14 minutes ago, truckswain said:

I am confused on how SSs are overpriced and deceptively marketed.

 

Example:  SS were sold as having dedicated butler service, people paid, service discontinued, some people still solicited for final payment (no update/disclosure provided post NRD). To the extent the marketing was updated in August, the butler and team is also a farce. There may be a head butler  in name, that if there is engagement simply says the equivalent to you're on your own, and then you're left with the housekeeper, phone to same services as anyone else on board (and follow-up that occurs), and waiting in line in the Retreat lounge. That's not team delivery of services, that's self service. 

 

A housekeeper is not a butler, or troubleshooter no matter how nice they may be at pointing out where the soap is and how the thermostat works, let alone timelines of cleaning and turndown.  

 

So, don't advertise and then charge for services not made available. 

 

But, cutting service on a 3000 plus passengers (400 plus Retreat guests) doesn't help enhance the experience when Retreat was designed with a point person in the told that was cut.  The butler or someone with some access to the system and knowledge, plus ownership, whether using a team or not,  may increase the chance of a positive experience. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Cap_D

[hcat]

1 hour ago, buncosquad said:

I think we are in agreement.

 

As you state, "It’s just a larger room with a balcony."

 

That's what I've been saying.

 

Celebrity has duped people to buy into those rooms by adding the "suite" word in the name.

 

Based upon the complaints (not my words), those SS category "suites" are just bigger rooms, probably better used for Aqua Class (due to the larger space) allowing for the yoga mat amenity.

 

Downward dog. Cat-Cow. Yay!

Boy woud I love that!.  Switch the 

AQ class ( IV s)  to reg  IV category with 4 mdrs, and switch SS rms with the real balc  to AQ Class with BLU..  A Dream Come True! And one could use the Yoga mat and other in rm exercise  amenties!

 

It would elevate  AQ Class to match the high prices,  and  make reg suites a better product, less crowded in Luminae  and Retreat..in and out!

[truckswain]

1 minute ago, Cap_D said:

Example:  SS were sold as having dedicated butler service, people paid, service discontinued, some people still solicited for final payment (no update/disclosure provided post NRD). To the extent the marketing was updated in August, the butler and team is also a farce. There may be a head butler  in name, that if there is engagement simply says the equivalent to you're on your own, and then you're left with the housekeeper, phone to same services as anyone else on board (and follow-up that occurs), and waiting in line in the Retreat lounge. That's not team delivery of services, that's self service. 

 

A housekeeper is not a butler, or troubleshooter no matter how nice they may be at pointing out where the soap is and how the thermostat works, let alone timelines of cleaning and turndown.  

So, deceptive to those that booked before the changes in SSs were implemented.

 

Going forward for those that have not sailed in an SS,  Celebrity has clearly outlined what can be expected when booking this class of cabin so no deception.  And if one reads that and believes the price to be of value then SS is not overpriced.

[PTC DAWG]

25 minutes ago, mac_tlc said:

We will be with you in a SS. We can offer each other moral support to get through the "elevated" experience. 

 

 

mac_tlc

Power in numbers…look for Jimmy. 

[Shiba_Lover]

14 minutes ago, CalTexCruiser said:

 

You are probably right on this, although it would be interesting if someone actually confirmed this by asking the head butler what he does the 99% of the time that he is not doing anything as a "head butler" of Sky Suites.  I would of course phrase it a bit more delicately.

 

Not picking on you here with the quote, CalTexCruiser - but agreeing with you and RichYak - it does seem the Head Butler is for upper suites.

 

This then is I guess my question - it seems that many people are asking about the head butler and expecting actions of the head butler.  If the new business model is that the head butler only serves upper suites, then the expectation for service from "head butler" from those of us not in upper suites is in error.  

 

I mean I sail in sky (or aqua sky) suite and occasionally in celebrity suite.  I personally am not bothered by the title of the person who assists me.  If their title is "retreat host" - if they get to know my preferences and can handle my very few requests, then I guess I don't understand why I would also need the "head butler" in addition to the "retreat host".  What am I missing here?   Is this not happening?

 

And yes, I get that it used to be marketed as "dedicated butler" and now it is a "team" - but if the "team" member can deliver, is the experience vastly different (legitimate question - so be kind in answer please)? 

 

I'm legitimately asking please as I have not sailed yet (other than on the Flora which is totally different) under the new model but have 4 more booked in SS.  So other than it was marketed as X and now we have Y, is service really that awful now?   Or maybe we are just super low maintenance as we don't ask for too many things?

[Dolebludger]

Basically, the Retreat Host IS the room attendant in a SS. If these staff members are required to do nothing more than in the main ship, SS no longer offers premium service. In the past, those in a SS had the services of two people — room attendant and Butler. Now it is down to only the room attendant who provides no more service than in lower categories. So, those looking for more than “mass market service” have no reason to book SS.

[PTC DAWG]

13 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

So, those looking for more than “mass market service” have no reason to book SS.

I disagree…YMMV. 

[hcat]

How many of the E Class suites are SS on each, ship?

[Cap_D]

14 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Basically, the Retreat Host IS the room attendant in a SS. If these staff members are required to do nothing more than in the main ship, SS no longer offers premium service. In the past, those in a SS had the services of two people — room attendant and Butler. Now it is down to only the room attendant who provides no more service than in lower categories. So, those looking for more than “mass market service” have no reason to book SS.

💯% plus the room attendant, host, housekeeper seems to have a lot more rooms, more to do, etc, and no more time or training to do it in, everything else is likely more overloaded, and varying or diminished quality may mean you would need more and not less services or troubleshooting on your own or accept the reality.  So, SS is effectively self service like rest of ship.  I presume there are exceptions or squeaky wheel examples, but the norm is not anything better from the reports despite what Celebrity said in one off inquires about the cutbacks.  And, past was far from always perfect operationally. 

[RichYak]

34 minutes ago, Shiba_Lover said:

I guess I don't understand why I would also need the "head butler" in addition to the "retreat host".

They're completely different functions. Butlers work for the Retreat and service guests, Retreat Hosts work for Housekeeping and service staterooms.

[Mrs_Tiki]

1 hour ago, mac_tlc said:

We will be with you in a SS. We can offer each other moral support to get through the "elevated" experience. 

 

 

mac_tlc

May we join the SS support group?

[Cap_D]

36 minutes ago, hcat said:

How many of the E Class suites are SS on each, ship?

Depending on edge class ship, about 150, number includes Aqua SS, and CS gets the number up to 180 (which still have butlers or at least different intentions compared to SS), with total of about 200 suites.  *above I may have used a 180 number. 

 

Example of how current amenities promoted at:  https://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/Flyers/Edge_Series_Accommodations_The_Retreat_and_Staterooms.pdf; not exactly same as booking portal (realize there are some disclaimers, plus as we are commenting on whatever is actually available onboard).

 

Ascent numbers available in fact sheet PDF linked on this site:  https://www.thecelebritycommitment.com/ships/celebrity-ascent/.  Edge and Apex have somewhat different numbers and ratios as the ships were a tad shorter and less rooms overall and in Retreat.  But, most Edge class Retreat guests are in SSs of some type.   

Butlers for 150 may not be practical, though that was the design and intended delivery mechanism, and for some things may have made difference.  

 

Meanwhile the above linked document on amenities still indicates a butler will unpack for a SS (just saying).  

Edited December 1, 2023 by Cap_D