Open Letter to Celebrity: I'm Extremely Disappointed with how your staff handled our multiracial family at check in.

[wahooker]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

As to singling out someone because a white family had a black child with them, it becomes obvious that the child must be adopted, which started this whole debacle. 

Second Marriages and Blended families are a thing. Especially with 3 17 year olds, I would have expected a second marriage to be a more likely factor than what we have  - Adopted daughter and Biological twins all the same age which is much less common.

[prmssk]

Same last name, same address, has a US passport that required permission from parents to obtain (along with documentation they are the child's legal parents) - this wasn't about preventing human trafficking.

 

(On another note that has come up in this thread, it is also my understanding that port staff are not cruise line employees.  They just wear the shirt of the cruise line they are serving that day.)

[dleahy4444]

12 minutes ago, wahooker said:

A public apology, and a promise to ensure that the staff (Whether Celebrity or contractors employed by the port) is properly trained to avoid this in the future would be a great starting point.

That would be great. And thank you OP for posting this issue on CC. I think it has raised a respectful conversation on traveling as a multiracial family 

[mphooker]

1 hour ago, ChutChut said:

I had the same thing happen to me on Princess when we had to present our passports to the Irish custom authorities. My daughter is Asian (I'm not) and they asked me to step aside and privately questioned me about whether my daughter was actually mine. They actually asked my daughter if I was her mother. She was 6 at the time. She and I live at the same residence and share the same last name. I had my adoption docs with me and showed them to the individual. I understand the sex trafficking issue, but I felt this was completely based on race. Given I'm white and my daughter isn't. I didn't make any "waves," but I felt singled out and uncomfortable that they asked my kid if I was her mom. Other passengers had kids, and I didn't see anyone else have to endure that type of scrutiny as they all were the same race, etc. 

I'm the mom of the girl posted about.  It was completely humiliating to my entire family of 6.  They actually out loud asked "Is she adopted?"  She knows she is and she answered to it.  They still made it out like we could not board that ship with her if we didn't have adoption paperwork.  Never in her 17 years have we had to prove that and I've even traveled internationally with her.  

 

But here's the other thing that bothers me...How likely is a sex trafficker going to have a passport AND pay for all this to go on a cruise?  I'd like to know those percentages.  

 

[ChutChut]

1 minute ago, prmssk said:

Same last name, same address, has a US passport that required permission from parents to obtain (along with documentation they are the child's legal parents) - this wasn't about preventing human trafficking.

 

(On another note that has come up in this thread, it is also my understanding that port staff are not cruise line employees.  They just wear the shirt of the cruise line they are serving that day.)

True - they are contracted. But if they're wearing a uniform reflecting the cruise line, then the cruise line must ensure they are trained properly, etc. I had a port authority person intentionally separate me from my then 8-year-old daughter as she descended the escalator into a crowd of hundreds of people disembarking a cruise. He refused to allow me to descend with her as he claimed I didn't have two free hands to use the escalator (I did have two free hands but envisioned both of them being around his pencil neck). He detained me for 10 minutes and threatened to call the cops. When I finally caught up with my kid, a kind couple was waiting with her. However, someone could have lured her away, etc. in that time. Needless to say, Princess compensated me for that debacle. 

[ChutChut]

1 minute ago, mphooker said:

I'm the mom of the girl posted about.  It was completely humiliating to my entire family of 6.  They actually out loud asked "Is she adopted?"  She knows she is and she answered to it.  They still made it out like we could not board that ship with her if we didn't have adoption paperwork.  Never in her 17 years have we had to prove that and I've even traveled internationally with her.  

 

But here's the other thing that bothers me...How likely is a sex trafficker going to have a passport AND pay for all this to go on a cruise?  I'd like to know those percentages.  

 

I'm so sorry it happened to you. I understand the humiliation. I should have raised it at the time but was afraid the Irish authorities (onboard a Princess ship) would find some reason to prevent us from entering the country. Looking back, I should have done what you're doing - address it with the cruise line and inform others that this practice is taking place. 

[alexandria]

I try to avoid attributing to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

 

My DW and I have been married for over 30 years and have dozens of cruises under our belt but when we embarked on our first Celebrity cruise last month, the Celebrity terminal check-in person insisted that we had to produce a copy of our marriage license! It took a supervisor to explain to her that such was not required and we were finally permitted to board after she apologized for the delay.

 

As a parent of two adopted children, I am curious why you would need to carry a binder full of paper as evidence of adoption.  In Georgia, a certified copy of the court order (often a single page) would be the only "proof" necessary to establish that fact.  I'm not suggesting that Celebrity was justified in their actions but perhaps you don't need to carry an entire binder full of paper with you just in case.  🙂

[crusinthrough]

2 hours ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Sadly we live in a world where girls and young women are at risk.  The terminal employees may have been overzealous but what if they had been right and she was in danger?

Thus far all the cheerleaders have not provided one example that the port employee viewed as suspicious, an indication of HT or someone in danger.  Perhaps you have something and can educate others on what not to do to prevent a someone from thinking a child is in danger.  

[crusinthrough]

3 hours ago, gold1953 said:

a very wrong situation but not by Celebrity . It is port staff

The port staff is representing Celebrity.  They are not operating in a vacuum.  

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, wahooker said:

Same last name, same address. However, they never even looked at the Driver's license that my daughter tried to show them. Once we said she was Adopted, they wouldn't look at anything except to demand the original adoption paperwork.

With that information you have convinced me. 

[phoenix_dream]

1 hour ago, wahooker said:

Second Marriages and Blended families are a thing. Especially with 3 17 year olds, I would have expected a second marriage to be a more likely factor than what we have  - Adopted daughter and Biological twins all the same age which is much less common.

You're right - it could be something other than adoption like a second marriage.  Currently being in a second marriage I should have thought of that.  And like I stated, I believe it was handled poorly and should be addressed.  At the same time, does it matter that the family was white and the child was black?  Would it have been the same if the family was Black or Asian or Native American and the child was white?  I'm thinking yes.  Is it all racial profiling?  One could argue yes.  At the same time where is the line drawn when trying to protect all children from horrible suffering?  I just don't think it's all as black and white as is being portrayed by some (no pun intended).  Again, I think it was handled very poorly and should be dealt with.  But hopefully the intention was good, which one expects would be try to stop the sex trafficking getting more and more prevalent these days.  Hopefully they can find less intrusive and insensitive ways of dealing with it.

[MagPie60]

1 hour ago, wahooker said:

n order to get a US Passport, we have to provide all required paperwork, including her original adoption records. If the US State Department isn't a good enough witness that the paperwork is in order, I don't think some random lawyer would be any better.

I don't think that the average worker at a port of any kind understands the ramifications of either adoption or acquiring a passport. However they do understand lawyers letters of permission. People who are travelling with children that are not their own HAVE to have them stamped and witnessed etc. Been there, done that. 

 

Anyway I am a person who likes to prevent problems and make my life easier, so apologies for trying to be practical. 

[desibee]

How terrible!  The port staff greatly overstepped their authority here and Celebrity should be aware of who they are working with and make clear to them that it’s not acceptable.

[Charles4515]

28 minutes ago, crusinthrough said:

The port staff is representing Celebrity.  They are not operating in a vacuum.  

I agree that Celebrity is responsible. Transportation companies have asked to be on the lookout for trafficking by the FBI. Where I worked we even had a one day training session on what to look for. We were told to call if we had any suspicion but we were not to take any action ourselves. 

[Contretemps]

4 minutes ago, MagPie60 said:

I don't think that the average worker at a port of any kind understands the ramifications of either adoption or acquiring a passport. However they do understand lawyers letters of permission. People who are travelling with children that are not their own HAVE to have them stamped and witnessed etc. Been there, done that. 

 

Anyway I am a person who likes to prevent problems and make my life easier, so apologies for trying to be practical. 

This child is their own.

[Pinboy]

1 hour ago, wahooker said:

A public apology, and a promise to ensure that the staff (Whether Celebrity or contractors employed by the port) is properly trained to avoid this in the future would be a great starting point.

A " Public Apology " doesn't mean a thing ( I almost used a more explicit term that would have my post removed )--- You hear them ( Public Apology's ) all the time. Means Zero !!!

A " Promise to ensure that Staff are properly trained "---- Good luck with that. Staff are probably minimum wage or volunteers racking up hours to get a free cruise. ( No disrespect to anyone if that is the case ).

A " Great starting point "--- How's this ??

 

From : XX President Celebrity Cruise Lines

CC:     XX VP Customer Service Celebrity Cruise Lines

           XX VP Marketing Celebrity Cruise Lines

Dear Mr Hooker:

I sincerely apologize etc etc---

( finishing with )

I am enclosing a Complimentary 7 Night Cruise Certificate for you and your family , etc etc.

Please contact my PA ( personal assistant ) within the next 12 months and he/she will make the arrangements.

Yours truly

XX 

President Celebrity Cruise Lines

 

 

 

 

 

[prmssk]

7 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I just don't think it's all as black and white as is being portrayed by some (no pun intended). 

 

Personally, I think this policy in Celebrity's FAQ make it pretty black and white.  Parents with children with a different last name are asked ahead of time to bring further documentation making it very easy for Celebrity to follow up on cases where the last names don't match regardless of the race of the child or the family.  If the last names match, it is incredibly unlikely we are talking about human trafficking.

 

Family Legal Documents

Should the last names of the parent and minor child traveling with them differ, the parent is required to present the child's valid passport and visa (if required) and the child's birth certificate (original, a notarized copy or a certified copy). The name of the parent(s) and the child must be linked through legal documentation.

Adults who are not the parent or Legal Guardian of any minor child traveling with them are required to present the child's valid passport and visa or the child's birth certificate (original, a notarized copy or a certified copy) and an original notarized letter signed by at least one of the child's parents. The notarized letter from the child's parent must authorize the traveling adult to take the child on the specific cruise, must authorize guardian to sign legal documentation/waivers for participation in any activities requiring them and must authorize the traveling adult to supervise the child and permit any medical treatment that must be administered to the child. If a non-parent adult is a Legal Guardian, the adult must present a certified certificate of Guardianship with respect to the child.

[Lena11033]

This is terrible but I am not sure what Celebrity can do if it's the port authority as those personal do not report to them that would be some sort of government body.

 

I would take it up with the port as well, I understand the intentions (I've had some terrible questions by customs entering the US and just had to keep my mouth shut) but it was handled badly. 

 

Even one parent traveling without the other but with a child, the parent traveling needs to provide a notarized letter to be sure no issues. Celebrity doesn't care about the letter but governments do as they are trying to prevent trafficking and kidnapping.

[wahooker]

40 minutes ago, MagPie60 said:

I don't think that the average worker at a port of any kind understands the ramifications of either adoption or acquiring a passport. However they do understand lawyers letters of permission. People who are travelling with children that are not their own HAVE to have them stamped and witnessed etc. Been there, done that. 

 

Anyway I am a person who likes to prevent problems and make my life easier, so apologies for trying to be practical. 

 

She is absolutely my own daughter - as much as my biological children. I'm not traveling with someone else's kid in this situation.

[MagPie60]

1 hour ago, Contretemps said:

This child is their own.

I don't think you understood what I was saying? Maybe read my post again, paying particular attention to the bit about lawyers letters. I never said the kid was not theirs. 

 

[MagPie60]

40 minutes ago, wahooker said:

 

She is absolutely my own daughter - as much as my biological children. I'm not traveling with someone else's kid in this situation.

Yeah - I wasn't talking about your daughter. I was referencing OTHER PARENTS who travel with a child who is not theirs, and the fact that they have to produce a sworn statement from the actual parents that the child has their permission to travel. AND that cruise people and airline staff understand these documents because they see them every day. 

 

I am done. Let us know what Celebrity says. It will be interesting to have the follow-up. 

[Itchy&Scratchy]

7 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Kudos to the shore side staff on being aware of the trafficking issues of children in the day and age and taking the time to be sure that your adopted daughter was truly traveling with parents.

 

I suggest that you avoid this problem in the future by having the adoption papers with you.

nope.

 

My friends just traveled on Carnival with their adopted kid and their biological kid, and nobody questioned whether they are trafficking either child. Was it because they were all the same color? But wait, there is more!

These friends also traveled with their entire extended family which includes both black and white people and their biracial offspring, and well as their biracial offspring's offspring, and NOBODY questioned them about trafficking any of the kids.

 

While interracial adoptions are very common now, the kid may not have even been adopted, so asking this question only stigmatizes the adoption or implies that no one could possibly have a kid of a different color. A 17 year old adopted kid does not need to provide adoption papers to prove that they are not being trafficked so that they could cruise with their family. Nope.

[hcat]

My dtr uses her name before marriage 10 + yrs ago ( quite common these days)... Her husb and childen use husb's last name...One child looks like her   the other like her husband. All are white.  Not sure if she will need paperwork due to name difference if they trvl together, or what if she trvls with the children on her own.?? 

 

We can all dance around this  but I sense a racial bias...overt or otherwise. Not sure it deserves a free cruise for all.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

2 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

But hopefully the intention was good, which one expects would be try to stop the sex trafficking getting more and more prevalent these days. 

that implies that trafficking only happens to people of a different color than the rest of the family. As in an all white or all black "family" couldn't possibly be trafficking kids of the same color as the people pretending to be the parents.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

5 minutes ago, hcat said:

We can all dance around this  but I sense a racial bias...overt or otherwise. Not sure it deserves a free cruise for all.

I don't think he is looking for a free cruise. He wants more training and common sense for the land crew.