Beware of the Cancellation Policies if the cruise is changed.

[ak1004]

48 minutes ago, mariners said:

ak1004, the examples that you are giving of money/deposits not being refunded are scenarios that are/were outside the control of a cruise line and/or tour agencies.  Any government can implement new policies, such as what Qatar did for the "World Cup", and those policies can preclude a cruise line from being able to follow a set itinerary.  Any country/countries can have security issues that arise suddenly and those issues are also outside the control of a cruise line.  Water levels in rivers, hurricanes, major storms, volcano eruptions, etc. also fall outside the control of a cruise line.  That being said, I also understand why passengers get concerned that some cruise lines delay making decisions about what is going to happen as a result of those scenarios.  Luckily, all of the cruise lines that we have sailed that have been affected by such scenarios, and we have had many, have been more than generous with us without us requesting anything. 

 

However, the scenario the OP posted falls under something that is under the control of the cruise line.  I have checked my Oceania brochures and the cruise was definitely marketed as a sailing to Antarctica (Drake Passage, Paradise Bay, Half Moon Island, and Admiralty Bay).  The cruise is over one year away and Oceania is, and has been, in control of both the marketing, and the change in the itinerary.  This is much different than your scenarios.

 

 

 

As I mentioned before, Qatar made the decision to ban cruise ships in April 2022, 8 months before the cruise, and SS waited till October to send the notice. Azamara did the same. Water levels sometimes are known weeks in advance, and river cruise companies know in advance that the cruise will be a bus tour.

 

That said, as I mentioned before, I think O should offer at least an option to transfer the deposit to another cruise, as a gesture of good will.  

[ak1004]

P.S. I also find it curious that OP joined CC just a few days ago, made 2 posts and then just disappeared after mentioning they will never cruise with O again.

[clo]

38 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

curious

? They said what they had to say and, unlike some of us, felt no need to whip a dead horse.

[PhD-iva]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

So, if you put down a deposit on a cruise to Australia, and O decides to change it to the Caribbean, you are fine with them keeping the deposit?  

As stated by the OP in the first post, the deposit was refunded only subject to a $150 cancellation penalty per person. Let’s keep the details straight.

[PhD-iva]

8 hours ago, Psoque said:

One way to, at least partially, resolve this questions is look at how this particular Antarctic cruise was marketed to the passengers.  I haven't read it, but I'm assuming that Antarctic sail by was marketed as the main attraction.  If so, the change is very notable.  However, does that justify a refund?

 

The second questions is a bit more complicated to answer. From a pure legal standpoint, the cruise ship can change its itinerary in almost any manner and still not be required to give a refund.  I guess one exception is that, if the ship never leaves the port of embarkation, they would be required to do something to compensate the passengers. In my opinion, the legal contract we all "agree" to is favoring the cruise line in many ways.  Ideally, there should be some sort of an incentive/disincentive to preserve the original itinerary, instead of allowing the whims of the cruise line to change its itinerary without any immediate consequences.  I am hoping that there will be a political will with our lawmakers to consider something to push the balance to cruise passeners' favor, the same way a similar push is currently being considered for airline passengers.

Be careful what you wish for. For example, passengers residing in the UK are able to cancel for a full refund or future cruise credit when a cruiseline makes a substantial itinerary change. One way cruise lines recoup this cost is to change their policies. It is my understanding that in the UK, deposits are nonrefundable. That is not the case here. The OP is upset about a $150 per person cancellation fee. We are talking about $300 here.

[PhD-iva]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

As I mentioned before, Qatar made the decision to ban cruise ships in April 2022, 8 months before the cruise, and SS waited till October to send the notice. Azamara did the same. Water levels sometimes are known weeks in advance, and river cruise companies know in advance that the cruise will be a bus tour.

 

That said, as I mentioned before, I think O should offer at least an option to transfer the deposit to another cruise, as a gesture of good will.  

The deposit is refundable, subject to a $150 pp cancellation fee.

[ak1004]

40 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

The deposit is refundable, subject to a $150 pp cancellation fee.

 

Yes, I know. I meant transferring the deposit without any admin fee. Would be a win-win for everyone. 

[PhD-iva]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

Yes, I know. I meant transferring the deposit without any admin fee. Would be a win-win for everyone. 

Previously that was the policy, but it appears to have been unsustainable in the current financial environment.

[Vallesan]

9 hours ago, PhD-iva said:

Be careful what you wish for. For example, passengers residing in the UK are able to cancel for a full refund or future cruise credit when a cruiseline makes a substantial itinerary change. One way cruise lines recoup this cost is to change their policies. It is my understanding that in the UK, deposits are nonrefundable. That is not the case here. The OP is upset about a $150 per person cancellation fee. We are talking about $300 here.

The  cancellation policy  in the UK, from the day of booking …

181 days or more prior to departure £150 pp

180-151 days prior to departure  £500 pp.

 

So in effect we would lose around $190 pp at todays exchange rate!

 

 

[Psoque]

15 hours ago, PhD-iva said:

Be careful what you wish for. For example, passengers residing in the UK are able to cancel for a full refund or future cruise credit when a cruiseline makes a substantial itinerary change. One way cruise lines recoup this cost is to change their policies. It is my understanding that in the UK, deposits are nonrefundable. That is not the case here. The OP is upset about a $150 per person cancellation fee. We are talking about $300 here.

That’s an example of how the laws in UK are still giving the cruise lines an advantage over the customers in regard to a drastic itinerary change made by the cruise line.  That’s not any better than what is in operation here in the US.  What we need is stronger consumer protection, not just a random change to something equally bad.

[babysteps]

This seems to be another situation that isn't fair and, at the same time, also has little/no clear recourse for the customer. Although definitely try @Sthrngary's letter writing approach! If you intend never to sail a line again, a resolution can be harder to achieve.

 

I have no problem with O keeping my $150pp if I cancel on them. With a major itinerary change that O makes, I'd hope I'd get the chance to old-style transfer the booking - but sadly O seems to be in their contractual rights to tell me "nope, not happening". 

 

I assume if one had booked onboard you could use the 1x free change of itinerary and not lose the $150pp?

 

Of course me being less cranky is often part of the solution lol - did you hear the one about the consumer who was so demanding, they thought a one-star review meant the product owed them a wish!

 

On 1/22/2024 at 12:15 AM, Hlitner said:

So, if you put down a deposit on a cruise to Australia, and O decides to change it to the Caribbean, you are fine with them keeping the deposit?

...

 

Hank

 

@Hlitner I believe that O's contract requires them to provide transport or compensation if they change either the embarkation or disembarkation port(s), but no penalties for changing any ports in between. May not be fair in all cases, but I think that's the contract terms. Remember the last-minute South American embarkation change was that late 2021/early 2022? Folks with independent air arrangements were on their own to make last-minute changes with compensation that wasn't super generous iirc.

 

 

On 1/22/2024 at 6:07 AM, hamrag said:

...

The remedy for significant changes like Antarctica, or Doha for world cup is a credit card dispute. In that case the credit card company is the arbitrer, and you will receive a full refund that way if your case is fair. 

 

@hamrag I have seen examples in print that successful credit-card charge backs may get one banned by the cruise line - iirc, sometimes not forever but still a hassle *if* you wish to travel said line again. If it's 'goodbye cruel cruise line' (never going to sail that line again) anyway, of course that doesn't matter!

[Vineyard View]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:20 PM, ak1004 said:

 

There are alternatives, but not necessarily better.

 

We sailed on SS twice, found it a small step up compared to O. Paying for many things we are not necessarily using. 

 

Will be doing our first SB cruise in September, but also typically much more expensive.

 

Azamara might be a good alternative, but small cabins and old ships is an issue. And drinks are included too as far as I know.

 

Looking at Windstar currently, could be a good option. This is probably the only premium line that doesn't include drinks (yet).

 

So if you want a small ship experience, not too many options.

I agree that all lines change ports or itineraries due to weather, politics, ets from time to time. No travel is without issues regardless of whether by land or sea. I  am looking closely at Oceania and Seabourn for 2025 and have narrowed down to a couple itineraries with Oceania as well as SB. 

We only book balcony cabins. We would upgrade to the prestige drink package, and Oceania charges daily room service charges. We are independent travelers, so the included excursion credit with O is a moot point for us. With Seabourn we don’t need to pay daily room service fees nor upgrade our  drink package. Their standard balcony are really suites. They are a lovely line to sail.  When I pencil it out, for our preferences and what we pay for, there isn’t much difference in per day costs with current Oceania prices.  Each person has their differentiators in cruising, and those add to the bottom line of the total cost comparison for each cruiser. 

Seabourn does not, at least so far, have a cancellation policy that would have affected this substantial itinerary change this far out (no penalty 121+ days in advance). 
I have watched and sailed on Viking multiple times. I have seen that they often offer FCC with many situations, which seems the least that Oceania could do with this specific one. But to the OP’s reason for this thread 

If this were me, if my TA had no success in assisting me (with what I believe is a deserved refund or FCC for this itinerary), I would likely write letters as recommended in this thread. If that failed I would without a doubt dispute it with my CC. 
 

[jazznruby]

19 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Oceania charges daily room service charges.

Huh?

[ak1004]

2 minutes ago, jazznruby said:

Huh?

They probably mean gratuities.  

[hamrag]

40 minutes ago, babysteps said:

 

 

@hamrag I have seen examples in print that successful credit-card charge backs may get one banned by the cruise line - iirc, sometimes not forever but still a hassle *if* you wish to travel said line again.....

 

😄 😄

[ak1004]

24 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

I agree that all lines change ports or itineraries due to weather, politics, ets from time to time. No travel is without issues regardless of whether by land or sea. I  am looking closely at Oceania and Seabourn for 2025 and have narrowed down to a couple itineraries with Oceania as well as SB. 

We only book balcony cabins. We would upgrade to the prestige drink package, and Oceania charges daily room service charges. We are independent travelers, so the included excursion credit with O is a moot point for us. With Seabourn we don’t need to pay daily room service fees nor upgrade our  drink package. Their standard balcony are really suites. They are a lovely line to sail.  When I pencil it out, for our preferences and what we pay for, there isn’t much difference in per day costs with current Oceania prices.  Each person has their differentiators in cruising, and those add to the bottom line of the total cost comparison for each cruiser. 

Seabourn does not, at least so far, have a cancellation policy that would have affected this substantial itinerary change this far out (no penalty 121+ days in advance). 
I have watched and sailed on Viking multiple times. I have seen that they often offer FCC with many situations, which seems the least that Oceania could do with this specific one. But to the OP’s reason for this thread 

If this were me, if my TA had no success in assisting me (with what I believe is a deserved refund or FCC for this itinerary), I would likely write letters as recommended in this thread. If that failed I would without a doubt dispute it with my CC. 
 

 

We will be taking our first SB cruise in September, and it's possible that SB will become one of the alternatives for us.

 

Generally speaking, SB is more expensive by around 20-30%, at least for European sailings for entry level veranda. Since we don't drink, the only thing we would be paying extra on O is gratuities. Even if you upgrade to prestige drink package, the O price will still be less on most sailings, but there are always exceptions.

 

It's always good to have options. We looked at 2025 European sailings, and booked two with O because to us they still offered the best value, especially now when we can book French Veranda on Vista. But it's always case by case. We are not married to any line and have zero loyalty.

[clo]

30 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

😄 😄

In that case, I'd say "good riddance to bad rubbish."

[PhD-iva]

12 hours ago, Vallesan said:

The  cancellation policy  in the UK, from the day of booking …

181 days or more prior to departure £150 pp

180-151 days prior to departure  £500 pp.

 

So in effect we would lose around $190 pp at todays exchange rate!

 

 

Thx for this information.

[Psoque]

I'm hoping this question is not too "unrelated" to this thread, since I have no intention of hijacking it.  However, I am really curious to know why Oceania dropped the Antarctica segments of this itinerary.  I would like to know the "reason" Oceania sent out as well as "the real reason" if such a thing is known.  Is there a huge decline in passenger interest to explore the Antarctic?  Or is there a change in the environmental regulations that is now precluding this ship from going there?

[clo]

50 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I'm hoping this question is not too "unrelated" to this thread, since I have no intention of hijacking it.  However, I am really curious to know why Oceania dropped the Antarctica segments of this itinerary.  I would like to know the "reason" Oceania sent out as well as "the real reason" if such a thing is known.  Is there a huge decline in passenger interest to explore the Antarctic?  Or is there a change in the environmental regulations that is now precluding this ship from going there?

Good questions.

[clo]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:53 PM, ak1004 said:

Some people book South America for Brazil and Argentina. Others consider Antarctica as the main part of the cruise. 

I'm sorry but Antarctica is a continent not a country that's part of South America.

[Vineyard View]

8 hours ago, ak1004 said:

They probably mean gratuities.  

Yes. Wrong verbiage. Thank you for clarifying. 

[ak1004]

30 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm sorry but Antarctica is a continent not a country that's part of South America.

 

I'm well aware of it, but how this is relevant to our discussion? Antarctica is still part of many South America sailings. Here are some examples:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/south-america-cruises/buenos-aires-to-santiago-de-chile-MNA250216/

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/south-america-cruises/santiago-de-chile-to-buenos-aires-MNA240214/

 

In fact, I don't think Oceania has any cruises that go to Antarctica only. It's usually only 3-4 days out of much longer voyage. So a cruise line can argue that removing 3 days out of 20-30 days cruise that are not even ports but just pass by isn't a "material change" that justifies a refund.

 

And this is exactly an issue. Who decides that the change is dramatic enough? For OP it could be, others maybe took the cruise because of Rio, Buenos Aires etc. Plenty of other interesting places on this cruise.

[osandomir]

53 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I'm well aware of it, but how this is relevant to our discussion? Antarctica is still part of many South America sailings. Here are some examples:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/south-america-cruises/buenos-aires-to-santiago-de-chile-MNA250216/

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/south-america-cruises/santiago-de-chile-to-buenos-aires-MNA240214/

 

In fact, I don't think Oceania has any cruises that go to Antarctica only. It's usually only 3-4 days out of much longer voyage. So a cruise line can argue that removing 3 days out of 20-30 days cruise that are not even ports but just pass by isn't a "material change" that justifies a refund.

 

And this is exactly an issue. Who decides that the change is dramatic enough? For OP it could be, others maybe took the cruise because of Rio, Buenos Aires etc. Plenty of other interesting places on this cruise.

I see that you are saying the same thing again and again. Probably you are right that Antarctica isn’t on the top of everyone’s list, but it looks like you didn’t notice that almost all posters on this thread have completely opposite opinion about eliminating Antarctica from the particular South America cruise.

[mariners]

We have stayed in both Rio and Buenos Aires.  We have sailed into and out of both ports.  We will be taking another cruise that goes to those cities, and others in S.A. this year.  They are not Antarctica.  Nor does the cruise line we are sailing include it in marketing our itinerary.  Oceania did, and, as Oceania states in its marketing:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/oceania-experience/post/cruise-destinations/top-things-youll-see-antarctic-cruise

 

For those who don't want to click on the link or read the article.  This line says it all:

 

"A voyage to Antarctica is an opportunity to comfortably explore one of the wildest parts of the world, where the ice and the weather dictate the itinerary. And with Marina’s Antarctic Expedition Team on board to share their knowledge and passion for the region, these voyages are a truly dazzling and enriching travel experience."

 

For those of you who don't care if your sailing goes there on a cruise, why would you even bother to book a cruise that includes Antarctica on the itinerary when you could book a different cruise that goes to the locations that interest you more.  They are plentiful and, usually, much less money. 

 

Oceania should be refunding the deposit based on their own marketing.