Changes to Carnival Loyalty Program

[JMAE]

1 hour ago, mz-s said:

 

Fair enough (I don't qualify for Elite cruises so no first hand experience) but I took the terminology I used directly from their website. https://www.carnival.com/casino/carnival-players-club/cruises/elite

Per the linked info, the individual and their travel companion assigned to the same room receive Platinum benefits for the entire cruise.  The Elite benefits are some that would be nice if they were included with the VIFP program, like parking/transfers, drinks package, free shore excursions, waived room service charges and social wi-fi package.   

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Pack and go offers still pop up in my offers occasionally for 3/4 days cruises at less than $500 all in.  A nice night out in Miami will run close to $300 for dinner, $100 at least for drinks, plus Uber/Taxi for just one night.  

 

Even at someplace like Nobu... $400 for dinner and drinks would be pretty high - unless you're drinking high end whisky or sake. If you're doing that - you can drop $3000 on a 60oz bottle of sake alone.

 

 

 

[aborgman]

5 hours ago, BeachChik said:

Doubtful. Florida is one of the least affordable places to live when you compare costs vs income.

 

Not really... when comparing average income to cost of living index the least affordable states are:

 

#1) Hawaii
#2) Mississippi
#3) Louisiana
#4) New Mexico
#5) West Virginia
#6) Maine
#7) Arkansas
#8) New York
#9) Kentucky
#10) Alabama
#11) Massachusetts
#12) California
#13) Montana
#14) Alaska
#15) South Carolina
#16) Oregon

#17) Florida

 

Florida is really pretty middle of the road - not one of the most expensive, not one of the cheapest relative to average income. In fact - Florida is about as "average" in cost of living as you can imagine.

 

The overall COL index for the USA is pegged to 100 (US average COL =100). Florida is 100.7

 

Hawaii the average income is 34% higher than Florida.

Hawaii the average cost of living is 79% higher than Florida.

Edited April 2 by aborgman

[Elaine5715]

13 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Even at someplace like Nobu... $400 for dinner and drinks would be pretty high - unless you're drinking high end whisky or sake. If you're doing that - you can drop $3000 on a 60oz bottle of sake alone.

 

 

 

You aren't getting out of STK for less than $150 pp for just food.  After dinner drinks at a cocktail lounge $25 plus each then hitting a club...  one night easy $400 pp

Cruise $500 for two for 4/5 days and no concern for a DUI, easy choice.  

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

You aren't getting out of STK for less than $150 pp for just food.  After dinner drinks at a cocktail lounge $25 plus each then hitting a club...  one night easy $400 pp

Cruise $500 for two for 4/5 days and no concern for a DUI, easy choice.  

 

STK Orlando...

 

2x Surf and Turf: $178

2x appetizers/salad: $55

4x sides: $76

2x deserts: $32

 

That still leaves $130 per person for drinks and clubbing before you hit $400.

 

You can definitely get to $400 - but "nice night out" is a bit different than "most expensive restaurant in the entire city, eating some of the most expensive things on the menu"

 

 

 

[BeachChik]

44 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Not really... when comparing average income to cost of living index the least affordable states are:

 

#1) Hawaii
#2) Mississippi
#3) Louisiana
#4) New Mexico
#5) West Virginia
#6) Maine
#7) Arkansas
#8) New York
#9) Kentucky
#10) Alabama
#11) Massachusetts
#12) California
#13) Montana
#14) Alaska
#15) South Carolina
#16) Oregon

#17) Florida

 

Florida is really pretty middle of the road - not one of the most expensive, not one of the cheapest relative to average income. In fact - Florida is about as "average" in cost of living as you can imagine.

 

The overall COL index for the USA is pegged to 100 (US average COL =100). Florida is 100.7

 

Hawaii the average income is 34% higher than Florida.

Hawaii the average cost of living is 79% higher than Florida.

Your own list has Florida as number 17 out of 50. So you think that is middle of the road. Okay sure. 

[aborgman]

Just now, BeachChik said:

Your own list has Florida as number 17 out of 50. So you think that is middle of the road. Okay sure. 

 

Yes - because average and median aren't the same thing.

 

The COL adjusted average income is within about $3000 total across the entire range from #10-#30.

 

When it comes to COL - Florida is literally the exact middle (closest to average of any state in the USA).

 

#22) Idaho: 98.6

USA Average: 100

#23) Florida: 100.7

#24) Nevada 101.0

 

When it comes to income - they're slightly below average.

 

Very slightly above average cost of living, very slightly below average salaries... ends up real close to average.

 

[MtnSeaGirl]

10 hours ago, angelsfort said:

 

well...  as I said in my post, that you quoted.. 

 

 (as you can imagine,  I can't afford to cruise often, so I don't get to raise my status very quickly.)

 

and I don't know if you're aware but I can still be "Loyal" to Carnival even if I don't sail often...  there's no reason to be a turd about it.

We don't cruise that often either.  My husband had the corporate job but walked away almost 30 years ago...maybe I should say called away.  He now has what I fondly call a Heavenly Boss.  I work also but I'm in public service which is a funny way of saying I serve for low pay but get to help a lot of people.  The elderly are my specialty, and I love working for/with them.  Not everyone is making bank or retired well.  Doesn't mean we don't enjoy cruising or other trips. Just means we pick and choose what we can do and when.  We save to do the longer trips whether cruises or land trips.  Maybe it  will take us longer to get to certain levels.  That's OK.  We will appreciate it when we get it and enjoy celebrating.  

[JMAE]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:58 PM, lasvegascruising said:

NOW HEAR THIS...we are due to turn platinum December 2024 which happens to be our 40th anniversary cruise.  If this gets screwed up, we are going to SCREAM.  We were due to turn platinum December 2023 for our 39th anniversary cruise but the Panorama was cancelled.  Please wait until 2025 to make any changes so we can at least have one cruise with priority boarding.

Just found this in CCL's FAQ for the transition to the current VIFP program back in 2013.  So depending the timeline and if they transition in the same manner, you may be okay.   

 

[skywalkr2]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:32 PM, aborgman said:

 

STK Orlando...

 

2x Surf and Turf: $178

2x appetizers/salad: $55

4x sides: $76

2x deserts: $32

 

That still leaves $130 per person for drinks and clubbing before you hit $400.

 

You can definitely get to $400 - but "nice night out" is a bit different than "most expensive restaurant in the entire city, eating some of the most expensive things on the menu"

 

 

 

 

And I have heard STK isn't really that great lol

[lowroller]

On 4/2/2024 at 9:59 AM, BeachChik said:

Doubtful. Florida is one of the least affordable places to live when you compare costs vs income. 
 

But regardless, I doubt you are spending the cost of a three day cruise for two on a single night out. Maybe back when you could book a 3-4 day cruise for $150. But those prices, even sales, don’t exist anymore. 

They do exist, it's easy to get cheap cruises in Florida. Just a quick search on Margaritaville @ Sea there $75pp cruises, plus fees.

[PA Dutchman]

On 4/2/2024 at 9:51 AM, JMAE said:

I'm a "nongambler", and it wouldn't bother me if they provided a VIFP benefit to gamblers since it is my choice not to gamble.  I just hope they improve their overall VIFP program, which I believe there is a lot of room for development.     

the casinos have there own programs, will not be included with the Carnival loyalty program, anyway to day they are not. 

[PA Dutchman]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:00 PM, starstruck05 said:

John Heald, Carnival's Brand Ambassador, has stated that the new program should be rolled out by the end of the year but he's not able to give details as to what the new program is. It's been in the works for a while. I suspect an announcement maybe in the fall.

about 11 years, to see how they can screw us

 

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, PA Dutchman said:

the casinos have there own programs, will not be included with the Carnival loyalty program, anyway to day they are not. 

Unfortunately Carnival has wrecked the currently loyalty program by allowing casino cruisers to accumulated cruise days on free and/or reduced rate cruises. They should not per the terms and conditions of the current program. I don't see Carnival ever adding a higher loyalty level because it will consist mostly of gamblers on reduced rate cruise days.

 

Carnival is a mass market, family oriented cruise line and novice cruisers are, and always have been, Carnival's bread and butter - their target market. Carnival needs to get back to basics. I don't see higher levels, but beefed up lower levels and perhaps some additions there.

[PA Dutchman]

13 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Unfortunately Carnival has wrecked the currently loyalty program by allowing casino cruisers to accumulated cruise days on free and/or reduced rate cruises. They should not per the terms and conditions of the current program. I don't see Carnival ever adding a higher loyalty level because it will consist mostly of gamblers on reduced rate cruise days.

 

Carnival is a mass market, family oriented cruise line and novice cruisers are, and always have been, Carnival's bread and butter - their target market. Carnival needs to get back to basics. I don't see higher levels, but beefed up lower levels and perhaps some additions there.

Carnival can't handle Diamond and Platinum amounts on Journeys cruises , Casino is different from the Carnival loyalty program, you can't have everybody with the Diamand and platinum perks or Carnival will cx the program for different cruses, which they are already doing, we were Diamond in 2013 and the program went to hell when the added platinum perks, now it's nothing to many people involved,  don't matter how they do it somebody will get screwed

 

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, PA Dutchman said:

Carnival can't handle Diamond and Platinum amounts on Journeys cruises , Casino is different from the Carnival loyalty program, you can't have everybody with the Diamand and platinum perks or Carnival will cx the program for different cruses, which they are already doing, we were Diamond in 2013 and the program went to hell when the added platinum perks, now it's nothing to many people involved,  don't matter how they do it somebody will get screwed

 

We were Platinum before there was a Platinum and Diamond before there was a Diamond and all on revenue cruises. Reduced rate casino cruisers are in fact in the regular program and should not be.

 

All loyalty programs are nothing more than marketing programs and none are sustainable without change. Nothing is earned or owed. It is basic marketing.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

We were Platinum before there was a Platinum and Diamond before there was a Diamond and all on revenue cruises. Reduced rate casino cruisers are in fact in the regular program and should not be.

 

All loyalty programs are nothing more than marketing programs and none are sustainable without change. Nothing is earned or owed. It is basic marketing.

 

 

What if.... what if Carnival actually started to take onboard spend into account? I'd bet that some of those "freeloaders" are actually contributing more to the bottom line than you might think.

 

I, for one, have sailed on several free/reduced rate cruises. In some cases, I've left with several times less $ than if I had paid for the cruise in full and stayed away from games of chance.

 

FWIW, many of our cruises on the way to Diamond (yes, we were already "there" too when the program started in the summer of '12) were in suites. That's earned us nothing in Carnival land...

 

Tom

[BlerkOne]

47 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

 

What if.... what if Carnival actually started to take onboard spend into account? I'd bet that some of those "freeloaders" are actually contributing more to the bottom line than you might think.

 

I, for one, have sailed on several free/reduced rate cruises. In some cases, I've left with several times less $ than if I had paid for the cruise in full and stayed away from games of chance.

 

FWIW, many of our cruises on the way to Diamond (yes, we were already "there" too when the program started in the summer of '12) were in suites. That's earned us nothing in Carnival land...

 

Tom

 

The casino is certainly free to offer a competing program and run it any way they like. The casino operations are not under Carnival.

 

Of course the casino is a money maker but obviously not everyone playing and losing (or winning) in the casino are booking casino rates or getting offers. If casino rates were available to all, you might have a point.

 

As for onboard spend, the casino is a popular place to launder money. It doesn't equate to revenue. Risking money is not spending money. Losing money might be.

 

As I mentioned, nothing is really earned or owed. It's all marketing.

[icft]

I have a hard time understanding those who object to those cruising on casino comps getting credit in the loyalty program.

 

The Carnival ships are in separate corporations from the casino operation. They are separate businesses. The ships are in the cruise business and the casino is in the gambling business. The casinos find it to their advantage to buy cruises and drinks packages for certain of their gambling customers and give them to those gambling customers. Some land based casinos do the same thing and buy cruises for their customers. It is not uncommon to find them on NCL. The cruise business gets paid for the rooms and drinks packages.

 

Following the reasoning of those who don't like including casino comped cruisers, if your grandparents buy you a cruise and drinks package then you should not get credit in the loyalty program. According to their logic only the person who pays for the cruise with their own funds gets credit; no credit for the kids when their parents take them on a cruise, no credit if your boss bought you the cruise as a bonus, no credit if Caesars Entertainment bought you the cruise (which they do on occasion) and no credit if Global Casino Operations (the company that runs the casinos on Carnival, Seabourn, Princess, P&O, Holland America, Costa, Cunard and Aida) bought you the cruise.

 

The cruise business has its loyalty program and the casinos, and others, have their marketing programs. They are separate things. The fact that casinos, some bosses and some charity raffles buy cruises and give them away is not relevant to the loyalty program.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

...

As for onboard spend, the casino is a popular place to launder money. 

...

 

Well, at least being Diamond, our laundry is covered. 😁

[BlerkOne]

At least Carnival has the authority to correct their mistake

 

•  
• All interpretations of these Terms and Conditions as well as questions or disputes regarding participation in the Club, VIFP Points, or Benefits shall be resolved by CCL in its sole discretion.
• Accumulated VIFP Points are not Member’s property and may be revoked, cancelled, limited or modified at any time.

[BlerkOne]

10 hours ago, icft said:

Following the reasoning of those who don't like including casino comped cruisers, if your grandparents buy you a cruise and drinks package then you should not get credit in the loyalty program. According to their logic only the person who pays for the cruise with their own funds gets credit; no credit for the kids when their parents take them on a cruise, no credit if your boss bought you the cruise as a bonus, no credit if Caesars Entertainment bought you the cruise (which they do on occasion) and no credit if Global Casino Operations (the company that runs the casinos on Carnival, Seabourn, Princess, P&O, Holland America, Costa, Cunard and Aida) bought you the cruise.

 

 

The casino is paying a discounted rate for the cabins they subsidize. It is not the same.

 

I don't have a problem with comped cruises, but Carnival's bread and butter players don't stand a chance in the marketing program that some think is a loyalty program.

[jimbo5544]

16 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Unfortunately Carnival has wrecked the currently loyalty program by allowing casino cruisers to accumulated cruise days on free and/or reduced rate cruises. They should not per the terms and conditions of the current program. I don't see Carnival ever adding a higher loyalty level because it will consist mostly of gamblers on reduced rate cruise days.

 

Carnival is a mass market, family oriented cruise line and novice cruisers are, and always have been, Carnival's bread and butter - their target market. Carnival needs to get back to basics. I don't see higher levels, but beefed up lower levels and perhaps some additions there.

Bingo, we have a winner

[jimbo5544]

12 hours ago, icft said:

I have a hard time understanding those who object to those cruising on casino comps getting credit in the loyalty program.

 

The Carnival ships are in separate corporations from the casino operation. They are separate businesses. The ships are in the cruise business and the casino is in the gambling business. The casinos find it to their advantage to buy cruises and drinks packages for certain of their gambling customers and give them to those gambling customers. Some land based casinos do the same thing and buy cruises for their customers. It is not uncommon to find them on NCL. The cruise business gets paid for the rooms and drinks packages.

 

Following the reasoning of those who don't like including casino comped cruisers, if your grandparents buy you a cruise and drinks package then you should not get credit in the loyalty program. According to their logic only the person who pays for the cruise with their own funds gets credit; no credit for the kids when their parents take them on a cruise, no credit if your boss bought you the cruise as a bonus, no credit if Caesars Entertainment bought you the cruise (which they do on occasion) and no credit if Global Casino Operations (the company that runs the casinos on Carnival, Seabourn, Princess, P&O, Holland America, Costa, Cunard and Aida) bought you the cruise.

 

The cruise business has its loyalty program and the casinos, and others, have their marketing programs. They are separate things. The fact that casinos, some bosses and some charity raffles buy cruises and give them away is not relevant to the loyalty program.

I have a hard time thinking that it is equal.  Cruisers pay list fare for their cruisers and what their loyalty program attainment is baed in that.  Casino programs highly discount (according to some, they are free) rooms and this counts exactly the same.  Apples and elephants.  

[BlerkOne]

59 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I have a hard time thinking that it is equal.  Cruisers pay list fare for their cruisers and what their loyalty program attainment is baed in that.  Casino programs highly discount (according to some, they are free) rooms and this counts exactly the same.  Apples and elephants.  

It isn't equal. Carnival started as an anti-elitist mass market cruise line and kowtowing to any niche market is contrary to the founder's intentions.

 

Even if Carnival could make it equal, the perception would be there that it isn't.