Viking IPO

[KBs mum]

On 4/7/2024 at 11:30 AM, CDNPolar said:

We have been talking about this a lot at home.

 

Our view is that Viking to this point has presented a product that we love and because of that have sailed 10 or 11 times now (have to go back and count) and we have 4 future cruises on the books.

 

We feel that Viking have controlled their product and kept their product reasonably dependable.  

 

I do believe that the pandemic hurt Viking like most other companies and had lasting impact, but somehow they kept the product in tact and that we as the guest did not see too much of that impact.

 

We are afraid that with shareholders to please, that the product will start to erode and we will see a decline.

We had noticed a very gradual but steady decline in 'quality' over the years prior to covid, after covid other companies have maintained or improved their offer, but Viking have declined, particularly in the catering offer, and the unwelcome increase in loud music in all the lounges. 

They seem to have abandoned their port intensive ethos in favour of short stops to sell tours, we get the impression they are now aiming at the mass market demographic rather than the premium/luxury denographic

[CDNPolar]

16 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

We had noticed a very gradual but steady decline in 'quality' over the years prior to covid, after covid other companies have maintained or improved their offer, but Viking have declined, particularly in the catering offer, and the unwelcome increase in loud music in all the lounges. 

They seem to have abandoned their port intensive ethos in favour of short stops to sell tours, we get the impression they are now aiming at the mass market demographic rather than the premium/luxury denographic

 

Yes - this is all very interesting to say the least.  We have been Viking loyal, but are not opposed to looking at other lines.

 

We really cannot blame any company for wanting to ensure growth or market share, and sometimes for companies to grow they will disappoint some while enticing others...

 

I only think that at the speed that the prices have been going up, and the quality starting to decline that public shareholders are going to want more profits which means squeezing margins where we don't want them squeezed.  

 

I think I also feel that the price point that Viking is at now, we expect the same or more in service and quality.  That is where their downfall will be.

 

Viking however - in my opinion - don't have the facilities for the mass market.  They would have to take out the Planetarium and install a water slide and where would they put the smoke filled casino?

[OneSixtyToOne]

3 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

…and where would they put the smoke filled casino?

Wasn’t the ship that China leased back to Viking modified to have a casino? I see on the website of the ship diagram that the nightclub is now called 1872. Seems like it could double as a casino.

[CDNPolar]

1 hour ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

Wasn’t the ship that China leased back to Viking modified to have a casino? I see on the website of the ship diagram that the nightclub is now called 1872. Seems like it could double as a casino.

 

Hmmm... possible... Have to look at this.   River or Ocean ship?  Must be talking River right?  

[Jim Avery]

It's my impression that they were referring to the Viking Yi Dun (ex Viking Sun).  And according to an officer recently onboard Neptune, yes the Viking Yi Dun has been modified to suit Chinese tastes.  That includes gambling and decor in public spaces.  I have not seen that personally but hope to hear reviews in the near future.

[OneSixtyToOne]

9 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

It's my impression that they were referring to the Viking Yi Dun (ex Viking Sun).  And according to an officer recently onboard Neptune, yes the Viking Yi Dun has been modified to suit Chinese tastes.  That includes gambling and decor in public spaces.  I have not seen that personally but hope to hear reviews in the near future.

Yes, that is the one. At first I thought they might have converted the Wintergarden into a casino, but the ship diagram still shows it. The only name change I see is the nightclub. 
 

I’m also curious to read the first reviews of the new China itineraries and the changes to the ship.

[rjp50]

It will be interesting to see if they maintain a primarily Western clientele for the Chinese market.  If not, it will then be interesting to see if they are able to maintain a smoke-free environment.  We were on a cruise up the Yangtze on a ship that was primarily Chinese tourists.  While there was an official no smoking policy, it was totally ignored and the hallways were always filled with smoke.

[CCWineLover]

1 hour ago, rjp50 said:

It will be interesting to see if they maintain a primarily Western clientele for the Chinese market.  If not, it will then be interesting to see if they are able to maintain a smoke-free environment.  We were on a cruise up the Yangtze on a ship that was primarily Chinese tourists.  While there was an official no smoking policy, it was totally ignored and the hallways were always filled with smoke.

Interesting.  Had wondered about that as well.  It would keep me from doing Viking China (the smoking despite No Smoking allowed).

[cmvikinger]

20 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

It's my impression that they were referring to the Viking Yi Dun (ex Viking Sun).  And according to an officer recently onboard Neptune, yes the Viking Yi Dun has been modified to suit Chinese tastes.  That includes gambling and decor in public spaces.  I have not seen that personally but hope to hear reviews in the near future.

 

There were still artworks aboard that were labelled as if they are on Viking Sun when I sailed...

 

Respectfully to this officer on Neptune, there's a very small chance indeed they have stepped aboard since it was reflagged, so it is just (incorrect) hearsay. 1872 is not a casino. It is a bar. They changed so little that they use the Torshaven 360 view from the other ships, and nobody cares. It is Torshaven with a new sign and new menus.

 

The offering has been modified to suit Chinese tastes, but my takeaway is that it actually extends more to what is included/not included being modified to suit Chinese spending/vacation habits, than material changes to the ship itself. 

Edited April 10 by cmvikinger

[Jim Avery]

Thanks. You are one of the few who can speak for actually seeing her.

[Jim Avery]

Few on CC that is 

[cmvikinger]

49 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Few on CC that is 

 

From what I witnessed onboard and have heard since, your first post was not too far off the mark either. There must be a reason the Chinese partner is willingly abandoning operations for a couple of months, in order to accommodate the Viking Ocean itineraries.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, cmvikinger said:

Respectfully to this officer on Neptune, there's a very small chance indeed they have stepped aboard since it was reflagged,

 

That may not be an accurate statement. They clearly can't work in an operational capacity, unless they were a Chinese National.

 

However, if the vessel continues to use the Viking Safety Management System, any auditor or mentor does not require to be a Chinese National. Vessel audits by the company are a regular occurence, especially in preparation for Class Document of Compliance Inspections and SMS Audits.

 

Therefore. it is entirely possible that Viking Officers have been aboard the vessel in a auditing or mentoring capacity. I also note that at least one of the senior managers in Basle also relieves onboard as GM, and he has been aboard the vessel in China.

[cmvikinger]

30 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

That may not be an accurate statement. They clearly can't work in an operational capacity, unless they were a Chinese National.

 

However, if the vessel continues to use the Viking Safety Management System, any auditor or mentor does not require to be a Chinese National. Vessel audits by the company are a regular occurence, especially in preparation for Class Document of Compliance Inspections and SMS Audits.

 

Therefore. it is entirely possible that Viking Officers have been aboard the vessel in a auditing or mentoring capacity. I also note that at least one of the senior managers in Basle also relieves onboard as GM, and he has been aboard the vessel in China.

 

It may not, or may. I did say very small chance rather than no chance... because the odds of anyone who actually did that work on Zhao Shang Yi Dun being the specific officer they were talking to are also fairly slim. Given the inaccuracy of the information, this doubt remains.

 

One thing I noticed about the 'good' officers during my time aboard (although they were hotel staff... I'm assuming the same would apply across the ship though) is that they were Chinese nationals who had worked overseas for Viking - Ocean, or River in some of the case - and moved home for a contract. They could, by now, have done the reverse... but again - if that were the case, they wouldn't be suggesting that there's gambling aboard. On the coastal itineraries I'm not sure it would even sail far enough offshore for a casino to open legally.

[Jim Avery]

What's the Chinese rules for gambling on ships?  Curious if it is similar to our rules.

[Heidi13]

11 hours ago, cmvikinger said:

 

It may not, or may. I did say very small chance rather than no chance... because the odds of anyone who actually did that work on Zhao Shang Yi Dun being the specific officer they were talking to are also fairly slim. Given the inaccuracy of the information, this doubt remains.

 

One thing I noticed about the 'good' officers during my time aboard (although they were hotel staff... I'm assuming the same would apply across the ship though) is that they were Chinese nationals who had worked overseas for Viking - Ocean, or River in some of the case - and moved home for a contract. They could, by now, have done the reverse... but again - if that were the case, they wouldn't be suggesting that there's gambling aboard. On the coastal itineraries I'm not sure it would even sail far enough offshore for a casino to open legally.

 

Territorial waters extend for 12 miles off-shore, so the casino can open at that point. Ships also need to be 12 miles offshore before making fresh water from the evaps or RO's. Therefore, unless cruising narrow channels, or similar passages, the Master normally sets courses at least 12 miles offshore and in my experience, it is usually further offshore.

 

The Hotel Supervisors are not ship's officers, as they do not require a Certificate of Competency. Viking does an excellent job differentiating the Officers from Hotel Supervisors/Managers, with the Master and Officers (Deck/Engineering/Medical) having gold stripes and Hotel Supervisors/Managers silver stripes.

 

You may be surprised at how many and how often auditors/mentors are onboard the vessels, and they rotate through the ships on a regular basis, so no, it is not a "Very Small Chance", as it is very possible with having a small fleet, that auditors/mentors have been on the old Viking Sun at some point during the past 3 years. I have performed this role extensively as a Master and shore based manager, visiting most of the ships in the fleet. 

 

[CDNPolar]

Interesting YouTube on Viking's potential IPO and what it means for you and me.

 

I don't necessarily support this opinion, but it is interesting to see this guy's opinion.

 

 

 

 

[Mike07]

VIK and I believe 44 million shares at a target of $21 to $25 for the ipo

[CDNPolar]

This is perhaps too personal of a question, but are you going to buy Viking when they IPO?

[Mike07]

3 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

This is perhaps too personal of a question, but are you going to buy Viking when they IPO?

 

 

Me? Probably not, but that's not Vikings fault. I don't own any of the cruise lines. Now, if Viking does do a shareholder benefit, I'll reconsider based upon the offer.

[Cienfuegos]

Moving to a more "mass market demographic" isn't a plus in my view.

 

If VOC decides that a small casino, a few formal nights, kids, extra fee restaurants etc are in their future, I would say Viking is in my past...

[CDNPolar]

1 hour ago, Cienfuegos said:

Moving to a more "mass market demographic" isn't a plus in my view.

 

If VOC decides that a small casino, a few formal nights, kids, extra fee restaurants etc are in their future, I would say Viking is in my past...

 

I agree with you on your points.  We would likely cancel our future bookings and move to Oceana.

[Squawkman]

1 hour ago, Cienfuegos said:

If VOC decides that a small casino, a few formal nights, kids, extra fee restaurants etc are in their future, I would say Viking is in my past...

Same here, but I doubt it would be that drastic as their TV ads emphasize no casinos and no kids. Print ads also emphasize “all inclusive”. 

[Jim Avery]

I have never, in a long "career" sailing on cruise ships, ever seen any cruise line stay the same.  Unfortunately they seem to all fall into the "bigger is better" mantra and move away from what originally made them so successful.  In 8 years sailing Viking we have seen notable changes in food and service.  Still good but not the Wow! of the first voyages.  Our next two bookings are on Explora Journeys and Scenic Ocean.  Both new lines with good reviews mostly.  But then back to Viking for a couple of river cruises.  As has been said many times before, the only constant in life is change.  We just go with what works at the time.🍸

[wine-wine-wine]

2 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

they seem to all fall into the "bigger is better" mantra

New Crystal is an exception here.  Hopefully they don’t reverse course.