Is this discrimination

[terrierjohn]

7 hours ago, 9265359 said:

 

The part I have bolded is interesting phrasing - Do they really mean "declined" as opposed to 'not required'.

 

On the cruise line you sail with, can someone 'decline' assistance and if someone 'declined' any assistance even though it was likely they would need it in an emergency, would the ship's crew say "bye" and simply let the passenger drown? I rather doubt it, and it is likely that they would put themselves at risk trying to evacuate the passenger even though they didn't have the staff numbers to do it.

 

Is that fair to the ship's crew putting them at that risk?

 

To reduce the risk to the crew and protect passengers from themselves, P&O seems to be taking the position that in some specific circumstances such as asking to rent a wheelchair during the cruise or turning up with an undeclared wheelchair, that whatever you say they consider that it is likely you will need mobility assistance in the event of an emergency and they won't let you board unless they have capacity for the crew to safely provide it without risk to themselves.

 

Is that a sensible approach - personally I would say yes.

 

 

I have seen many people who use rollators or walking sticks on our current cruise, who I would seriously doubt could safely use the stairs in an emergency.  Obviously I do not know if they have filled in a medical questionnaire, or indeed if they have requested assistance, but I suspect there will be some who have not indicated they will need help.

[terrierjohn]

Duplicate post.

Edited May 18 by terrierjohn
Duplicate post.

[nosapphire]

2 hours ago, david63 said:

The nonsense of that letter is that your travelling companion may not be with you, which is true but one thing that is certain is that a member of crew will not be with you and furthermore your companion stands far more change of finding you than a member of crew will.

In a real emergency your travelling companion may not be permitted to go looking for you.

Last thing any ship wants in an emergency is everybody running about looking for other people.

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

In a real emergency your travelling companion may not be permitted to go looking for you.

Last thing any ship wants in an emergency is everybody running about looking for other people.

The staff are trained for such eventualities and protocols will be firmly established. In the unlikely event of having to go to the muster station announcements will be made, whether people will follow instructions is a different matter. As you say people running around trying to find their partners or children would create chaos. Myself and Mrs YP have always agreed that we do not go searching for each other in any emergency.

[Cloudyrain]

I think the problem is that it's all very narrow minded.

 

If someone is travelling with someone who lacks capacity to know what to do in an emergency then they will not be alone at anytime. Or in the case of children they will be with a guardian, or at the kids club where separate processes for emergencies exist. 
 

The whole process also completely ignores disabled children and groups them in with adults.

 

It is interesting that Princess don't seem to have the same procedures though, and appear to have interpreted them differently. Either that or they don't appear to have implemented them yet?

[Bubbeh]

6 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

Myself and Mrs YP have always agreed that we do not go searching for each other in any emergency.

Grumpy and I have also made the same decision.  Whether it's a natural disaster emergency at home or something overseas/ at sea, we've agreed to meet each other at the nearest evacuation centre.  We've also got a plan in case we have to evacuate our home in terms of who takes what; he grabs the hard drive (all our family photos etc are on this) while I get the insurance documents and identifying certificates (birth certificates etc).  If only one of us is home, it's the hard drive and insurance documents and if nobody is home it's cross your fingers and hope.

[Winifred 22]

8 hours ago, Cloudyrain said:

I think the problem is that it's all very narrow minded.

 

If someone is travelling with someone who lacks capacity to know what to do in an emergency then they will not be alone at anytime. Or in the case of children they will be with a guardian, or at the kids club where separate processes for emergencies exist. 
 

The whole process also completely ignores disabled children and groups them in with adults.

 

It is interesting that Princess don't seem to have the same procedures though, and appear to have interpreted them differently. Either that or they don't appear to have implemented them yet?

Princess does not come under the Carnival U K umbrella. Only P &O and Cunard are under Carnival UK.  Ultimately all brands come under Carnival Corp so in the future Princess may well follow with similar or the same policies in the future. 

[therese2]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:49 PM, Selbourne said:

You don’t request one. They are allocated by P&O. 

I completed on line Questionnaire for my hubby identifying scooter etc but chose the one to one option as it was more appropriate,seems policy has now changed and evac chair needed. We go in two weeks. Booking online says evac chair required so does this mean they have automatically allocated one?

[Cloudyrain]

2 hours ago, Winifred 22 said:

Princess does not come under the Carnival U K umbrella. Only P &O and Cunard are under Carnival UK.  Ultimately all brands come under Carnival Corp so in the future Princess may well follow with similar or the same policies in the future. 

I am aware of that: I was just pointing out that with P&O stating this is in response to the new international regs, then it would be an international issue and I would have expected an internationally aligned stance for lines that form part of an international group.

[Selbourne]

14 minutes ago, therese2 said:

I completed on line Questionnaire for my hubby identifying scooter etc but chose the one to one option as it was more appropriate,seems policy has now changed and evac chair needed. We go in two weeks. Booking online says evac chair required so does this mean they have automatically allocated one?

Yes, if you go onto your Cruise Personaliser and select the ‘Your Calendar’ option right at the top, and you see that it says ‘Evacuation Chair Required’ under the first day of your cruise, then you are sorted and can relax in the knowledge that you won’t have any issues at check-in. That being said, I have taken a screenshot just in case!

[therese2]

25 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Yes, if you go onto your Cruise Personaliser and select the ‘Your Calendar’ option right at the top, and you see that it says ‘Evacuation Chair Required’ under the first day of your cruise, then you are sorted and can relax in the knowledge that you won’t have any issues at check-in. That being said, I have taken a screenshot just in case!

Many thanks I’m assuming as I completed the form before the changes they have automatically allocated. And yes it says Evacuation chair required. I will screen shot as you say. Do we need to take the questionnaire with us as this is not identifying the evac chair just the one to one?

[Selbourne]

26 minutes ago, therese2 said:

Many thanks I’m assuming as I completed the form before the changes they have automatically allocated. And yes it says Evacuation chair required. I will screen shot as you say. Do we need to take the questionnaire with us as this is not identifying the evac chair just the one to one?

You are not required to take the completed questionnaire with you, but I always print off a copy and take it with me. We’ve never had a problem, so have never needed to show it, but there are so many issues being reported at present I’m not taking any chances. 

[therese2]

3 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

You are not required to take the completed questionnaire with you, but I always print off a copy and take it with me. We’ve never had a problem, so have never needed to show it, but there are so many issues being reported at present I’m not taking any chances. 

ok thanks and I have 

managed to update to to evac chair required so fingers crossed all ok thanks for your help

[terrierjohn]

7 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Yes, if you go onto your Cruise Personaliser and select the ‘Your Calendar’ option right at the top, and you see that it says ‘Evacuation Chair Required’ under the first day of your cruise, then you are sorted and can relax in the knowledge that you won’t have any issues at check-in. That being said, I have taken a screenshot just in case!

@Selbourne, can you detail your procedure for the above, I cannot see the your calendar option when I log onto my account. Maybe it's because I am using my smart phone, and not a tablet or lap top.

[Selbourne]

51 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

@Selbourne, can you detail your procedure for the above, I cannot see the your calendar option when I log onto my account. Maybe it's because I am using my smart phone, and not a tablet or lap top.

I must confess that I was looking at the Cunard Cruise Personaliser John, as both our future cruises are with them but, from memory, I think it’s the same as they look identical. 
 

Basically, login to the Cruise Personaliser. Go to the daily schedule (which, on Cunard, is called ‘Your calendar’ and right at the very top above the main options, but may actually be ‘Daily Schedule’ or similar on P&O). Select the day of embarkation and scroll down and it states ‘Evacuation Chair Required’. I can’t confirm if the P&O Cruise Personaliser is different as we don’t currently have any future cruises booked with them (waiting for some late bargains). Glad to hear that you are having a better time on your Princess Cruise than ICF. 

[Windsurfboy]

On 5/18/2024 at 6:33 PM, yorkshirephil said:

The staff are trained for such eventualities and protocols will be firmly established. In the unlikely event of having to go to the muster station announcements will be made, whether people will follow instructions is a different matter. As you say people running around trying to find their partners or children would create chaos. Myself and Mrs YP have always agreed that we do not go searching for each other in any emergency.

 

That's all well and good if both are physically and mentally able bodied.

 

Luckily both of us are, but if it wasn't the case, would I have complete faith in some member of staff with many priorities getting there, or would I want to be sure myself. I can't imagine standing at muster station wondering what is going on.

 

As for children then the primeval instinct  kicks in , I can't imagine many mothers not making their way straight to kids club. 

[nosapphire]

I very much doubt it would be left to "some member of staff with many priorities".

Ship's crew and staff train constantly for emergencies, and they all have designated duties.

There will be staff specifically tasked to "sweep" the ship checking all passenger areas (including cabins - and in an emergency they won't stand politely knocking) and making sure that all passengers get to where they should be, either under their own steam or with assistance.

The less rounding up of able bodied passengers the have to do, the quicker they can locate and retrieve the less able.

It may be quite possible that parents/guardians get told to go to the kids club and collect their children - but the first thing you are told about emergency is "Listen for instructions". If you don't do this, you could be heading for the kids club just as the staff are moving the children via a different route to re-unite them with their family.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I must confess that I was looking at the Cunard Cruise Personaliser John, as both our future cruises are with them but, from memory, I think it’s the same as they look identical. 
 

Basically, login to the Cruise Personaliser. Go to the daily schedule (which, on Cunard, is called ‘Your calendar’ and right at the very top above the main options, but may actually be ‘Daily Schedule’ or similar on P&O). Select the day of embarkation and scroll down and it states ‘Evacuation Chair Required’. I can’t confirm if the P&O Cruise Personaliser is different as we don’t currently have any future cruises booked with them (waiting for some late bargains). Glad to hear that you are having a better time on your Princess Cruise than ICF. 

I think the Cunard personaliser is possibly more akin to Princess which also calls it a cruise personaliser. Does anyone else know how to find out if you have been allocated an evac chair on a P&O booking.

[Megabear2]

8 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think the Cunard personaliser is possibly more akin to Princess which also calls it a cruise personaliser. Does anyone else know how to find out if you have been allocated an evac chair on a P&O booking.

If you login to your booking and click in to Your Itinerary on the first day it will show your special request. Mine shows my husband's name and then

121 ASSISTANCE

Things To Know

121 assistance required in an emergency

 

Edited May 19 by Megabear2

[terrierjohn]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If you login to your booking and click in to Your Itinerary on the first day it will show your special request. Mine shows my husband's name and then

121 ASSISTANCE

Things To Know

121 assistance required in an emergency

 

Thank you @Megabear2, although I think it is an odd place to show that information.

[Selbourne]

27 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If you login to your booking and click in to Your Itinerary on the first day it will show your special request. Mine shows my husband's name and then

121 ASSISTANCE

Things To Know

121 assistance required in an emergency

 

Thanks. I thought it looked identical to P&O, and was in the same place, which it is, the sole difference being that they use the term ‘Your Itinerary’ whereas Cunard say ‘Your Calendar’.

[purplesea]

28 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If you login to your booking and click in to Your Itinerary on the first day it will show your special request. Mine shows my husband's name and then

121 ASSISTANCE

Things To Know

121 assistance required in an emergency

 

How long does it take to appear after having submitted the questionaire?

I filled one in for my husband on Tuesday, but there's nothing there!

[Megabear2]

8 minutes ago, purplesea said:

How long does it take to appear after having submitted the questionaire?

I filled one in for my husband on Tuesday, but there's nothing there!

The agent who took my booking marked it as mandatory - my confirmation invoice states it too.  Once I completed the form it appeared in about 24 hours.  However my one not marked as mandatory did not show anything at first save the form being submitted.  This discrepancy is what I was talking about above. I've now submitted new forms for December stating we require  one to one in emergency and it appeared about a day later.

Edited May 19 by Megabear2

[david63]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

I very much doubt it would be left to "some member of staff with many priorities".

Ship's crew and staff train constantly for emergencies, and they all have designated duties.

There will be staff specifically tasked to "sweep" the ship checking all passenger areas (including cabins - and in an emergency they won't stand politely knocking) and making sure that all passengers get to where they should be, either under their own steam or with assistance.

The less rounding up of able bodied passengers the have to do, the quicker they can locate and retrieve the less able.

It may be quite possible that parents/guardians get told to go to the kids club and collect their children - but the first thing you are told about emergency is "Listen for instructions". If you don't do this, you could be heading for the kids club just as the staff are moving the children via a different route to re-unite them with their family.

I think we all understand the theory, and training, but I am not 100% sure that it will be that efficient when push comes to shove (which it literally will do)

 

I know this is not the same but some years ago when on Oriana a man at the next table at dinner had a heart attack. All the waiters, including the head waiters, just stood there watching and it was only for the fact that there happened to be two nurses nearby who were literally screaming to the crew to call the medical centre that anything happened.

 

So you will understand why I am somewhat sceptical about how the crew would react in an emergency.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

The agent who took my booking marked it as mandatory - my confirmation invoice states it too.  Once I completed the form it appeared in about 24 hours.  However my one not marked as mandatory did not show anything at first save the form being submitted.  This discrepancy is what I was talking about above. I've now submitted new forms for December stating we require  one to one in emergency and it appeared about a day later.

If you book via a TA then the form is definitely not completed as part of the booking process, because that is done by the TA, whereas the form has to be completed by the passenger.